Saab 9-3 Sedan

191012141566

Comments

  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    The G35 is a very nice driving machine but it lacks character (like most Japanese luxury cars) and looks very odd in the back.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    I disagree.


    I think the problem with the G35 isn't lack of character..it is over the top styling.


    The G35 may well be hideously outdated in a few short years because it is obviously styled for effect.


    Where the BMW, Audi, and Saab simply flow and look purposeful, the G35 (much like the CTS) was styled to evoke a reaction.


    It's like the difference between Wolfgang Mozart and John Williams.

  • linsaladlinsalad Member Posts: 9
    Hey all!

    As suggested by pat (thanks for the friendly welcome!), I'm retrying a question that I posted in a new discussion.

    Long-time Edmunds reader, first time poster. I'm looking into buying the new Saab 9-3, Linear, and I was wondering if anyone out there who already has one can comment on the sound system. According to the most recent Road Test (updated 11/26/2002, I believe), the upgraded sound system in the Linear was ranked as being 5 out of 10, and not something for the audiophile.

    Now, I'm not an audiophile, but I do like to listen to music...and the music review said that the system was terrible for anything other than AM radio.

    Does anyone have any personal experience they can share please?

    Additionally, it was suggested that a way to improve the system would be to add a simple set of 6x9 two-way speakers in the rear deck cutouts in lieu of the existing 4" speakers. Any estimates on cost, and will this help the bass problem?

    Thanks!
    Dave
  • blitzin1blitzin1 Member Posts: 53
    Dave,

    I have not personally heard the sound system in the Linear yet, as I keep forgetting to bring a CD to the dealership, but keep in mind there is some big confusion out there over the Linear's sound system.

    Although the specs seem to indicate that you get the upgraded stereo with the Launch Package, in fact, all that is updated is the head unit, to include the multi-function display. Otherwise, it is the same 7 speaker, 150 watt model that is on the base Linear. The Arc will have the updated head unit AND a 13 speaker, 300 watt stereo.

    Main complaints seem to be that the small rear speakers produce no base and sound lousy, others say that the speakers need to break in, and sound better after several hours. Sound is a VERY subjective experience, and the only answer is to bring music you know with you to the dealer, and decide if it sounds the way you want it to. As to updates, replacing the rear speakers is truly a do-it-yourself job, and even cheap 6x9's should make a difference. If you want more power, however, adding an amp is a slightly more complicated procedure that can cost as much as you want it to ;-)
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    No.. I meant what I said. The car has no character. Character and styling are not necessarily the same thing. The G35 does nothing for me when I sit inside. The 9-3 and other cars are more inviting, stylish and make me feel more cozy when I sit in them.

    Nothing wrong with the G35 at all, it just does nothing for me. I prefer the bold looks to the CTS over the wierd look of the G35.
  • shades80shades80 Member Posts: 53
    Me and my finace couldnt decide which one to get so we got both....she ordered a red g35 coupe-coming in march..i recently picked up my 9-3 linear...i love the car...the sound system is ok..not great but can live with it,,i recently inquired with saab if the 300w can be upgraded on the linear and they said no..but we're both happy with our new additon and addition to be
  • larryjorlarryjor Member Posts: 12
    Just a couple of comments on the G35. My brother and I were going to buy one around June/July. We were very excited about it. However, after 4 mos and a week, we found out the dealer in Portland OR had never even placed the order for the car, but the dealer did have our $1,000 deposit for those 4 mos +. After all this, we got our $$ back pronto because of the botched order. Looking back, we are very thankful that we didn't get the G35 most primarily because of the dealer. However, when pictures of the 9-3 began to appear, both of us perked up big time. While the G35 is definitely an exciting ride, it is our collective opinion that the aesthetics (dash, various interior details) don't even come close to the 9-3, and that's the Linear model. The Arc/Vector--we're committed to the Vector w/everything--should be an awesome auto. Awesome, as in the 'whole' package, not just the 0-60 stoplight GT. In retrospect, we're very pleased that we'll have an '04 Vector (gotta have the SAT/NAV) as well as an '00 Volvo S80 T6. Great for compare and contrast. 9-3, thanks for the wake-up call.
  • hungshyhungshy Member Posts: 74
    wow, how suprise to compare these two model. 260 hp vs. 175 hp? I don't know new Saab reliability yet. But most Infiniti's reliability are not so good. My friends always compained about Nissan and Infiniti, there always some unexpectd problem. Nissan had financial problem also until they have new CEO and re structure thier plants.. yes, I agree they focus on lots fresh desin on thier production line. Good for picture but I can't stand it when I saw them in the parking lot.
    For Saab new 9-3, it did lots research and study to make a super refined family car. I admit it's not so high perforance sport car. But its aesthetics scense is great. Every line and corner from inside out has been detailed. I would say it's not like others. My neighbor and friends all said it looks so sharp. I don't really know what's that means but it must be means so outstanding from others. I agree with "dindak" it has its very own character. It's sure attracted some Audi and BMW drivers.
  • mooselookmooselook Member Posts: 68
    Linsalad, I'm reaching my one month of ownership mark with my new 9-3. My only real complaint with the car is the sound system. I have the upgraded system that comes with the Launch Package. Blitzn1 is pretty right-on in his comments. I've also posted comments about the system on this site previously. The main problem is the rear speakers. They're basically very small Pioneer speakers of AM radio quality. If you mix front to rear, they add absolutely nothing, so you may as well use the front speakers alone. There are 6X9 cutouts, where you could easily add new, quality speakers. Check out http://www.crutchfield.com and you'll see that you can get a nice pair for around $100. However, Crutchfield will be of no help in supplying you with a plug/harness because the car is too new to be in their system and the plug is a Saab proprietary model. this just means that you'll have to cut into two wires for each speaker. I plan to do this myself, shortly. One final comment: The CD unit is MUCH better than the radio. I'd say that the CD is about twice as good a the best radio station I can receive (and I live in the NY/NJ metro area where there is no shortage of radio stations with good reception.) So, bring a test CD but listen to the radio too. Overall, the unit is not horrible, but bad enough to make you want to do something about it once the new car "aura" starts to fade.

    --** Mooselook
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    I guess I'm in the minority.

    OK.

    I am glad to see Saab finally enter the fray with an appealing alternative. Everyone wins!
  • linsaladlinsalad Member Posts: 9
    Thanks mooselook (and others)!

    Well I'm glad you can upgrade the sound system. I wonder - any way to upgrade the radio? ;)

    Anyways, I think I'm pretty sold on this car - and disregarding a car just because of its sound system (especially if I can upgrade it for a hundred bucks or so), well... :D

    Off to read Edmund's car buying guide (again..for who knows how many times) - this is my first car after all, and I can't wait!

    Dave
  • rgc2200rgc2200 Member Posts: 37
    Mooselook and I took delivery the same time. My 4 week anniversary is today. I drove with the 16 inch wheels in 4-5 inches of fresh snow, unplowed roads and did well last week. not as good as snow tires on my old 9-3, but no skidding out. Incidently, if anyone cares the bolt pattern on the new 9-3 is different then the old one. i'm giving my 4 blizzaks on steel rims to a buddy with a 2000 9-3 convertible. I agree with everyone regarding the stereo. I'm not an audiophile and reluctantly admit that on my commute i listen to sports talk shows and news on npr. the rear speakers are pretty useless. the balance favors the front, where there is some bass. i tried to get to the areas best custom stereo shop, but haven't carved out the time i need (too short a holiday season). The CD does sound MUCH better. I've been cranking springsteen, (am seeing him in Albany friday night) and its not terrible. I will update my decision when i get stereo options. Still waiting for onstar and my second key. I'm surprised there are no comments about the lease deal launched in the papers today. In philly, 349/ for 48 months, 10K/year, 3500 due purchase option 14175 on 30815 msrp. lastly, i wonder how long it'll take for any of the 9-3 catelog items to make it to the dealers? G-35's.. beauty is all in the eyes of the beholder. I personally don't like the looks, and would never want one. I love the looks of my saab, and the engine and 5 speed is plenty quick for me. when i need a burst, I get it in a quite satisfactory fashion. as i'm posting, just saw my steel grey 9-3 in the advertisement in Paris! cool
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    g35 coupe exterior is a drop dead stunner. the dash is a bit inappropriate and dull, but the seats and door panels are fine. the sedan is not as hot, but still good.

    The 9/3 styling is really darn nice and in vector form is hot....the interior design of the 9/3 is good but some of the materials could be better.
  • phoenexiusphoenexius Member Posts: 30
    We all know the 9-3 sound system is not as good as we would like. You guys mention the radio reception being poor. I think that Saab went cheap on their antennae system. I understand that there is a Rear window mounted dual antenna system. I don't know if it is a diversity antenna system (pretty much the best antenna you can fit in a car).

    Anybody have details?

    Hey Saab!! If you're going to sell lots of these cars in the US, you have to upgrade the radio and sound system. XM, Satelitte, better speaker/amp system in base model, borrow something from Cadillac (Bose) to put behind your head unit.
  • jdisanjdisan Member Posts: 28
    would love some thoughts...i have a lease expiring in May of 2003. Most likely going for the arc or more likely the vector. Question is do I put an order in now (as the dealer is suggesting), or wait until a bunch appear on the lot? Also, I have never "ordered" a car before so can I/do I negotiate price upfront? Also,dealer said any factory discounts or incentives that are running in the month I take delivery would apply.

    Any thoughts?
  • shades80shades80 Member Posts: 53
    Apparently dealers have all the new 9-3 accessories on back order..i wanted to get the aluminum inserts on the steering wheel and near the shifter but have to wait..no eta..i thought i would see a arc or vector at the sf auto show but they only had the Linear so i couldnt see how the interior inserts look in person..has anyone gotten these accessories yet? What have you guys heard...i think the little upgrades like that will improve the total char/gray look of the interior tremendously
  • cdndrivercdndriver Member Posts: 86
    HI
    I drove the 9-3 the other day, and while waiting for the car to test, I played around with the stereo in the showroom car. I kept trying to oost the bass, but there simply is none. I mainly listen to classical music, but even that sounded pretty flat. It is dissappointing. The car, otherwise is very nice, and fun to drive. I had a stick, and I didn't think it was sloppy. the other alternative is a subaru. Heart says Saab, but reliability and pocketbook are leaning towards Legacy SE.
    cdndriver
  • blitzin1blitzin1 Member Posts: 53
    I am in the same position as you right now, but my time frame is more flexible, as I am just replacing a 1990 BMW that I have beat to death, but is still alive right now. My thinking goes like this, but this is just my ideas, not any hard facts or industry knowledge:

    I think I will go the pre-order route, for several reasons. First, like any new car, there is sure to be some backlog of orders vs. dealer allocation, and by putting the order in, I will get my car from initial allocations, rather than waiting for the lot to fill up (which may take some time, if my dealer decides not to order too many Arc's until he moves the Launch Linear's off his lot). Secondly, I am pretty particular in my color/option choices, and waiting for a car with my specs to come in a normal allocation would probably take forever. For example, I am not willing to spend $1,000 for a sunroof I'll use twice a year, and I understand that the majority of production cars will have them. If I wait until March to buy, I probably wouldn't have the car before summer. However, the big downside is you really can't expect big bargains on a pre-order car. The people at the front of the line want it and are willing to pay for it, and the dealers know this. Further, as Linear sales have been softer than expected in the US so far, some are predicting further bargains on the Arcs/Vectors, but that is something that almost certainly will not happen until the cars have been around a few months, so Saab/GM can look at the initial sales numbers and decide whether to offer incentives or not. So, while you will get any incentives that may be in place when you take delivery, I for one am not expecting any (other than, hopefully, continuation of the low financing) in the first months of availability, and also will not expect my dealer to move much in price for a pre-order car. So for me, potentially forgoing deals in the June/July time frame is an acceptable trade-off for getting exactly the car I want, when I want it. YMMV.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    A number of the posts here suggest 03 9-3 sales are off to a slow start. Reality suggests the contrary is true:


    http://www.saabnet.com/tsn/press/021204.html


    With only the base model available, Saab sold more '03 9-3s in 11/02 than it did 3 and 5 door 9-3s in 11/01.


    Once Saab has all three levels of the new Sedan available, and the wagon, it is not a stretch to think 70k 9-3 units per anum is doable.

  • oldsman01oldsman01 Member Posts: 1,203
    The more I look at the 9-3(both in the brochure and the ones sitting on the dealer's lot) the more I really like it's looks. The fact that I don't think I've seen one on the roads yet also attracts me as I prefer a car which is a bit unique and less common. G35s and CTSs are becoming fairly common on the roads and I've even seen a G35 coupe already. I'm still not a fan of the G's look, but the coupe is much better looking than the sedan. As for the 9-3, I'm waiting on the Arc. According to Saab's info, the Arc comes with the 6 speed manual with the auto optional and full boat Vector comes with the automatic and has steering wheel mounted shift buttons. The Arc is pretty much right in line with what I want. It has the upgraded stereo and some additional features not available on the Linear. Oh and 35 extra horses and an extra cog in the manual. I ntoced that C&D's recent review was pretty objective, but I swear those guys have really become 3 series addicts as I don't think that anything will come close to their beloved 3 series. NEWSFLASH! I don't want a 3 series. In the more affluent parts of town, they are about as common as Honda Civics and Accords. While some may truly buy a 3 series for it's driving credentials, I see more and more of them driven by women who are yaking on their cell phones while putting on their make-up in the visor mirror. Make a mine a black or Cosmic Blue Arc with the 6 speed please. Go light on the options, heated seats are really all I want.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Member Posts: 1,203
    I remember reading some posts back where someone said that Arcs and Vectors has an input jack on the console for an external audio source(i.e. MP3). Anyone know if this is true? If so, thats another plus in the 9-3' favor as it appears they are not offering XM radio as a factory option and with a direct input, I could easily connect my XM radio right into the radio the way I would prefer to do, rather than using the RF modulator.
  • blitzin1blitzin1 Member Posts: 53
    While I would love to see the 9-3 be a smash hit in the US, the above link seems to be marketing hype. Saab wants north of 150,000 cars sold in 2004, and while the 9-3 does seem to have strong popularity in Europe, with many reported backorders, 33,000 sales a year in the US (as the article suggests) is not going to help Saab hit its own numbers. 12,000 9-3 a year is simply not a drop in the bucket in this section of the US market.
  • blitzin1blitzin1 Member Posts: 53
    The Saab commercials linked by Hungshy in message 557 seem to clearly show the driver using an iPod, while the display for the sound system says "Aux"- so it seems to be a rumor with a good bit of truth behind it- whether it will be 2003 or 2004 (like BlueTooth) is another question.....
  • brucec35brucec35 Member Posts: 246
    on the various topics I've read above.

    1. Stereo. Our Linear Launch model has the 150 watt upgrade. Does lack low bass, but the high end is very crisp and I can hear every cymbal and guitar pick noises on the strings. But only on CD! The radio is duller. But reception is good. I live in the sticks and get stations my old BMW's couldn't. I listen to talk radio and CD's, not FM radio, so no problem for me. Saab also offers a 300 watt upgrade later in the year according to their accessories catalog I have. I would probably be happy with 6x9's in the back only, since I'm not insistent on audiophile quality. But the system does rock now with CD's. It DOES have a diversity antenna, according to the manual.

    2. G35 sedans/coupes. I was SOLD on the new G35 last year before it came out. It had it all. Decent styling, power, handling, braking, safety, reliability, etc. But after driving them, they just lack some intangible I was looking for. They certainly would be the choice if you value performance above all else. Hard to really knock the car, but it did have more cabin noise and wasn't quite as refined. Car mag testing backs this up...67 db at cruise for the Saab, and 73 for the G35 coupe (71 I believe for the sedan). That's double the sound pressure, so it is noticeable. As far as saying Infinitis are unreliable...I've never heard that. Certainly better track record than Saab. But the future will be interesting. G35 styling is good, but has flaws. Coupe is better, but is too boy-racer for me. I prefer understated, despite my wife's choice of laser red.

    4. As far as comments that the 9-3 is "nothing special". I agree. It's a good handling, moderately peppy, reasonably luxurious, reasonably good looking car. But it costs less than cars that are better than it, and is rare and carries less of the luxury car crud that I got tired of dealing with. And for whatever reason, it has more character than others I tried. Let's face it, handling at the limit and 6 second 0-60 sprints are often more important for bragging rights than real-world use. My wife drove our 540i like an old lady, which was a total waste. One of the reasons we sold it. She likes her "slow" 9-3 a lot better, too. And surprisingly, so do I.
  • phoenexiusphoenexius Member Posts: 30
    Car and Driver 9-3 review is online:

    www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/roadtests/2003/january/0301_roadtest_saab_93.xml?&page=1

    Lots of talk about the numbers and things they didn't like. They only briefly mention liking the steering feedback, seats, and don't say a word about if it is enjoyable to drive. Whatever...
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Where do you get 150k US sales a year? Everything I have read says Saab is looking for 240k total sales worldwide. Saabs have always been more popular in Europe. I imagine Saab is hoping for 1/3 of its sales in NA and 2/3rds abroad.

    The Linear, 1/3 of the 9-3 lineup, the other 2/3rds not yet available, is only one piece of the sales figure.

    The Arc most likely will be the best selling 93 (I and several other people here are waiting for the Arc) So even with your low figures, say 12k Linears, 15k Arcs, and 2k Vectors, and Saab is selling more than 30k 9-3s in the US.

    As mentioned in my earlier post, Saab will also have a hatch, wagon, new 9-5 and some type of cross-over thing.

    The 9-3 alone is not going to bring Saab to 240k sales worldwide. But it is a good start.

    Finally, you say that 12k is only a drop in this market. What market do you mean? The name entry level sports lux sell around 12k (the IS300) to around 70k (the 3 Series) per year. 12k is not going to scare BMW, but its already caught Lexus.
  • blitzin1blitzin1 Member Posts: 53
    Point I'm trying to make is simply that calling the 9-3 a smash hit (or a complete flop) is premature and irresponsible at this point. Will Linear sales be 1/3 of total 9-3 sales? Will people avoid the Vector because it has the same motor as the Arc and isn't a true top-of-the-line car? Are Linear sales hurt because people are waiting for Arc/Vector, and sales volume will triple come March? Once more 9-3's are on the road will the "word get out" and sales skyrocket? Will the US economy remain soft, hurting all car sales in general? For that matter, will 9-5 sales tank pending the re-design?

    No one knows at this point, but at least initially, the car is selling better in Europe than the US. Will that change? Will Saab hit its numbers? who knows, but Saab itself has already trimmed its sales goals based on the initial sales volume of the 9-3, and acknowledged ITSELF that 9-3 sales are "weak":

    http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/021127/1259000559_1.html

    My point is, that I'm buying this car because *I* like it, and I believe Saab will be around to make parts for it over the next 5 years. Seeing Saab take a chunk of the Near-Lux market would make me happy for them, but it is not driving my purchasing decision- if I was after Brand recognition by my friends/neighbors/co-workers, I would be buying another BMW.
  • needashaveneedashave Member Posts: 91
    Does anyone know if the Arc will have the same cloth covered center console and door handles as the Linear? I find this as a very weak part of the interior that is destined to be detroyed over time.
  • rghesselrghessel Member Posts: 122
    The Arc and Vector will have leather on the doors and center console...
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    That has to be the worst design feature in the car. What the heck were the engineers thinking. Not a single 9-3 should have them.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Well, first, the article says sales are weak, not 9-3 sales. Second, the article I cited could hardly be called irresponsible. It simply said NA sales in the first full month were good. That is true.

    I agree Saab has problems that need to be addressed. It needs to integrate its back office structure more completely with Opel to avoid cost overlap and leave more money for product improvement and development.

    I also agree that the 9-5 sedan will be sorely tested by the newer, better and almost as large 9-3. I can think of no reason to buy a 9-5 sedan right now, unless the dealer is giving it away.

    This segues into why I think the Arc will be the best selling 9-3. The Arc will come with the bigger engine, more upmarket interior and the better stereo standard. a base Arc will cost around the same as a well-equipped Linear.

    Significantly the Arc should be a better buy than a well eqipped 9-5. The slight edge in space with the 9-5 will be far outclassed by every other facet of the Arc.

    To meet its sales goals, Saab needs a new 9-5 pronto. It needs the 9-3 convertible to be a real star in an area where even BMW does not have the strongest of entries. It should make the 9-3x.

    The new 9-3 is a very good start. It shows that Saab can attract a larger market than in the past. I hope Saab continues down the road.
  • brucec35brucec35 Member Posts: 246
    I agree that Saab needs more than two cars! An SUV, station wagons, and maybe even a truck would help get volume up.
  • manamalmanamal Member Posts: 426
    saab makes a great wagon. 9-5 may be the best wagon out there for (out the door) under 35K.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    When I test drove the 9-3, the salesman told me that the 9-5 currently has deep incentives (about $5000).


    He said, "right now, through GMO, you can get a $36,000 9-5 for about $28,000."


    I don't particularly care for the 9-5, but for $28,000, it's a pretty compelling alternative.

  • oldsman01oldsman01 Member Posts: 1,203
    Thats not a bad deal on the 9-5. Wonder what a 3 year/15K lease would run on one of those.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Member Posts: 1,203
    I have yet to drive a 9-3, but have pretty much decided if I do one, I'm getting the Arc. To me, the Arc makes the most sense. Unless you want the ultimate in performance and steering wheel mounted shift buttons, the Arc is the way to go. It has about the same level of equipment as the Vector and the same engine. In fact, other than heated seats, there is really nothing else I would really want that isn't already standard on the Arc. The parking assist would be neat, but I don't think it is necessary on a car this size. Heck, my Intrigue is larger than a 9-3 and I've never really sensed the need for parking assist on it. The rain sensing wipers, again a neat feature but I had a rental Cadillac SLS last summer with them and didn't notice an big advantage with them(still had to fiddle with the wiper speed from time to time). I'm taking some time off from work around the holidays so I will probably take a test drive of a Linear and use that as a baseline to compare when an Arc becomes available to drive.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Wow, that is a heavy incentive. The 9-5 is a bit older, but I have heard good things about the car, better than the old 9-3.
  • joeandcarol2joeandcarol2 Member Posts: 152
    And was even more impressed.. The steering, gearbox (manual) and suspension are all 1000% better than last year. Currently its number 2 on my list. But there is one ergonomic issue i cant seem to get past. I can't stretch out my left leg. Usually my left foot goes under the clutch butin this car it won't fit.. And i resting my foot on the dead pedal just is not the same. Hey Saab, the floor needs to be a tad lower under those pedals.
  • brucec35brucec35 Member Posts: 246
    Best I could tell from checking at Carsdirect, a Loaded Linear 9-5 prices out about $900 (with doc fees) more than I paid for my loaded 9-3 Linear. The 9-5 is a good car, but unless a slight advantage in rear seat room matters to you, the 9-3 seems like a better deal.

    1. Depreciation. 9-3 is a new design, 9-5 is due for replacement soon.
    2. Handling/braking/dynamics - 9-3 is superior.
    3. Styling. 9-3 is similarly styled, but sleeker and cleaner.
    4. Interior design. 9-5 may have better materials, but the design struck me as a little dated.

    So, for about the same price, or a little more maybe, as a Linear 9-5, you could pick up a more powerful Arc 9-3 in a few months. Sounds like they need to knock a little more off to sell those 9-5's. The 9-5's are a great deal compared to last year. But with a substitute that is so similar (but better) available in the form of the 9-3, the only 9-5 that sounds interesting is the Aero.
  • rghesselrghessel Member Posts: 122
    Check out the Car and Driver review of the 2003 Vector. Really positive review.


    http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/roadtests/2003/january/0301_roadtest_saab_93.xml?&page=1

  • phoenexiusphoenexius Member Posts: 30
    Mind if I ask what is No.1 on your list?

    As long as my shoes don't hit the kink in the pedal arm I don't care about how much room is under them. I'd be scared of what might happen to said foot in an accident, mashed by car parts or the brake pedal as you drive it to the floor with your right foot.
  • larryjorlarryjor Member Posts: 12
    If I'm not mistaken, I think the pedals on the
    9-3 are designed to break away in a similar fashion as some of the Audi and Mercedes autos do. So that hazard is taken care of. Incidentally, I think the C&D roadtest was quite complimentary, overall. No front-driver will = the BMW or a well-designed AWD derivative. However, a .83g is pretty sticky in my book. Good words for no-lag turbo, xcellent seating & good ergonomics. Some thought shifting was good, while others thought it was not quite so good. However, all thought it was better than previous 9-3. As a package, 9-3 is very well executed and not a cookie-cutter car thankfully.
  • joeandcarol2joeandcarol2 Member Posts: 152
    My current first choice is a 6 speed Acura CL-S. Wonderful engine. Gearbox almost as good as an S2000 and a Helical limited slip differential that really bites into corners. The interior on the 9-3 is more modern and the seats more comfortable. Not ready to pull the trigger. If I buy a 9-3 it will be an Arc. Want the 6 speed and more powerful engine. And I think the Arc gas mileage will be as good as the Linear. No downside except price.
    Maybe not being able to place my left foot is a safety feature but I've been doing it a long time. Ergonomics are very very important.
  • brucec35brucec35 Member Posts: 246
    Before pulling the trigger on a 6 speed CL type S, you might want to check resale value of ones already on the used market. The CL is a good car and a fantastic performance value, but it's a little less refined in my opinion, the styling isn't as good, and it's not been too popular. I've heard rumors it's going away at the next restyle period for the platform. Average mileage models are advertised for a little over $21,000 here and probably selling for less than twenty grand. That's a lot worse than the TL sedan models. I see 2000 (non type S) TLs advertised for about the same price.

    Curious, why not a G35 coupe, which is generally thought to be a superior performer?
  • rkpatelrkpatel Member Posts: 3
    My last car was a '99 VW Passat. It was a truly wonderful car - and having it probably saved my life. Unfortunately, the Passat now sits in its final resting place in a junkyard. I'll be looking for a new car over the new few months and was very intrigued by the 9-3. (I'm not looking at anything non-European - the compromises [in getting something domestic or Japanese] that I would have to make in safety and performance are unacceptable). My only major concerns about the 9-3 have to do with its build quality. Many of my friends/colleagues have had Saabs in the 90's, and almost all have now sworn off of them because of the miserable build quality. Examples would be: misaligned steering, leaky transmissions, poorly fitted interior trim, and faulty sunroof. I am up for a 'quirky' car - but not these types of quirks. I expect a vehicle over $25,000 to have great fit and finish along with excellent materials used inside and out.

    Are my concerns about build quality unfounded? Also, I had read somewhere that the engines now used for the 9-3 are GM engines with Saab turbos. Is this true? I think more than anything, I am afraid of buying a GM vehicle - given the miserable materials and fit and finish often seen in Pontiacs/Buick...

    I have narrowed my choices to a Passat or a 9-3.

    Replies would be most appreciated.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Saab quality has improved since GM took over in the mid-80s.

    The epsilon platform which bases the 9-3 also bases the Vectra (and will base the Malibu and Grand Am)appears to be solid and has been getting good reviews.

    The Saab 4 is based on the same architecture as GM the ecotec 4 cylinder engines. I have a car with a GM 2.2 litre ecotec and it has worked flawlessly for a year and one half. In fact, the opportunity to have a more advanced version of this engine is a big reason I am considering this car.

    When I test drove the 9-3, I saw nothing that made me think there were fit and finish problems. That is a call you need to make yourself.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Member Posts: 1,203
    I like the styling of the 9-5 and while it does have some nicer interior appointments(more wood trim in dash and plush carpet) I like the 9-3s instrumentation and overall dash layout better. I'd also imagine that with the exception of the Aero, the 9-3 is a better performer. I'm definitely more interested in the 9-3 Arc. I would think that the 9-3 would have better resale than the 9-5 which should be of benefit to those who lease as the higher the residual, the lower the lease payment typically runs.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Member Posts: 1,203
    I think the Saab's new 2.0 liter is based on the GM ecotec, but I believe it has Saab designed heads and other compenents that you certainly won't find on a Saturn. And the Ecotec was actually a global GM engine design in the first place. 210 hp(or even 175) is pretty good from an inline 4 displacing all of 2 liters.
  • magnetophonemagnetophone Member Posts: 605
    Saabs under GM really got worse before they got better... the early 90's 900's that were based on the Vauxhall Cavalier were very unreliable.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Saab and GM did business with each other in the early 90s, GM did not take ownership of Saab until the late 90s. (97 or 98)

    If Saab management was unable to properly execute with the product it bought from GM, it can hardly be blamed on GM.
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