But I wonder if most of this occured within the last month and is just now being leaked or if it happened within the last week?
Regardless "if" I decided to buy one I want it to be right from the beginning. So I don't mind the wait if necessary but then again Ford better get there act together on these launches. It seems everyone later has some type of problem.
In other news...
The Dec 2002 issue of Car and Driver landed in my mailbox today. It has a nice write-up on the Aviator. They seemed very impressed but held back some until a direct track compairison could be made with the MDX and others.
Didn't find it on the website but should be on newstands soon if not now.
I was trying some online lease quotes using '03 Aviator AWD, with a 36m 12000 miles/year term. The lease residual that was quoted is very low: 41%! Is this true? It won't help (actually hurt) Aviator sale if this is true.
I think 41% is at 2wd Explorer level. But if you take into account of the $2000 incentive (1500+500) on a $30000 '03 Explorer, even Explorer has 44% left after 3 years.
Anybody has any different numbers? Thanks in advance.
Maybe the last message I wrote (its gone) was misinterpreted. The Aviator is going to be held at dealers and at the factory due to a problem with the engine. There also appears to be a problem somewhere in the suspension. You can get more details at www.blueovalnews.com. I did get my Motortrend today. While the Aviator didn't get SUV of the year they did say it was a pleasant surprise! Anyway hang in there... I'm glad Ford wants to get these vehicles to the customers without any flaws.
Give me a break. I am so tired of hearing "Ford wants to get it right before they introduce the Aviator". I doubt this is the 1st SUV produced by Ford. Sounds like there are serious problems with the Aviator.
Last week I spoke with a dealer who was up to FedEx Field for a preview of the Aviator. One major problem he and many of the other salesmen had was the tight quarters in the front seat. Anyone 6' and over will have a serious problem with comfort.
I don't understand why the Aviator brochure says the NAV system will be available in December and now they say the end of January. Is this rocket science?
All said and done - I am out of the Aviator market and bought another SUV. Price was also a factor. With the NAV you will be up to $50,000.
I'm 5'11" and I had no problems with interior room. Maybe they didn't have the seats adjusted correctly.
They're having problems and they're fixing them before customers take delivery. They could've shipped them, pretended nothing was wrong and fixed problems under a TSB. At least give them credit for doing the right thing.
you said you drove some Volvo SUVs...I assume you mean the XC90???...can you give some more detailed thoughts about it, as you have told us that rollover seems quite difficult, something worth thinking about...what about comfort, size, acceleration, stopping, ergonomics, layout, etc??
Having driven Lincoln and Mercury SUVs exclusively since 1996 now, and having never even come close to rolling one, I find all this rollover concern mystifying. But, maybe it's just how I drive.
I have to agree with navigator3740 about the roll over. I have rode in many SUV's and have never come close to rolling it. Just because the prior Explorer had roll over problems doesn't mean every SUV is the same.
GPS/Nav. As a matter of fact it is "rocket science". And not even Toyota/Lexus seems to be able to get it right.
The thing to do is buy a laptop with a GPS nav antenna and software. If the software proves to be "buggy" then downloads will be available over the net.
T/L Map updates, a single DVD platter, are $450, and That's only a MAP update, firmware flaws, bugs, are unique to the year of the vehicle and will remain.
Rollover tendancy is primarily a function of the amount of the vehicle's weight, the center of gravity, that is above the supporting surface, the suspension, and the width of the stance.
Since most SUV's are taller than their brotheren they have a greater tendancy to roll over.
Load up your SUV's cartop carrier with about 500 lbs, go around a tight corner at high speed....
and I would never do that. If I load the roof, I slow down. Are you supposed to be able to drive an SUV, Van or RV like a Corvette? I think not, and those who do, and expect the same degree of stability are morons! But then, I rest my case.
You may drive carefully and drive your SUV like an SUV and not a sports car; however, what about emergency manuevers? This is where many SUV rollovers occur. Now matter how careful you are, swerving to avoid a deer in the road at 60MPH can result in a rollover. I spent a few days with the Volvo XC90 folks last week, and some local Volvo dealership folks who went through training on the vehicle, and they said they could not get it to roll over, hard as they tried.
i test drove the volvo xc90 today and the 2003 navigator...just getting bored while waiting for the aviator.
the volvo premium model i drove seemed set up like a minivan on the inside..esp the dash the driver s seat area seemed cramped to me...otherwise...seemed ok...i heard from a friend.that the dvd entertainment screen for the volvo will be on the ceiling area but the dvd unit itself may very well be strapped/attached to the back of one of the front seats
the dvd entertainment is supposed to be available as a dealer instal after march..
they are asking sticker price right now
the volvo handled capably..the moon roof seemed to be situated a bit too much to the rear of the front seat to me for the driver to enjoy it
the navigator road nicely ..but i certainly had a difficult time getting used to the bulk coming from my explorer...I drove the ultimate edition.but no rear dvd ent or navigation was in it
the volvo will cost slightly more initally if you add the running board package and option it out similarly to the Aviator from what i can see.
It seems to me the volvo will have a much higer residual value as the first several years go by.
my friend just bought a bmw M5 v6... focusing on the residual value.. and ride handling
the aviator seems to have everything i want..dealer said she was supposed to get one in today..but she didnt know about the engine problems..
anyone have any idea how they will fix the glich...beef up the cooling capabilities for the engine?
I expected the Aviator to be a good vehicle, but after reading the new Car and Driver I'm surprised at how good it really is.
It's fast, 0-60 in 7.6sec, faster than Acura and Lexus, it brakes well, lots shorter than the Acura and has an awesome ride and steering according to Car and Driver. The editors couldn't get over how well the Aviator rode and handled and how well the transmission shifted.
The engine feels "as smooth as a BMW X5"
I called a local dealer and they are supposed to get 2 in this weekend. Can't wait to drive it.
"Aviator News Brief: SLAP Is Reporting That The Front Suspensions On All Lincoln Aviators Have Been Repaired And Are Ready To Ship!"
For those that don't know..SLAP means St Louis Assembly Plant
Hope it's true!
By the way my wife asked me yesterday when we saw a Lincoln ad on tv "what the theme song is from?" I didn't know does anyone here know? Kind of catchy if you ask me.
the title has to go. I was also amazed at the C & D accolades on the Aviator. They hate SUVs, and I think they hate Ford SUVs even more, but they loved this one. Except the DNA styling cues, which BTW, I just love. My wife can't wait to get her "baby Navigator".
Does anyone have any further news other than what was posted in blue oval news on nov 6 about cylinders 7 and 8 of the 4.6 aviator engine being defective and failing around 7000 to 30 000 miles? ( READ post #302 of this forum for link)
It mentioned rerouting the exhaust and / or changing to a higher capacity water pump in an attempt to cool down the operating temperature of the engine.
If anyone has any information about this engine issue please inform us.
According to people at the plant who have posted messages on other boards, that piece of info was 'old news' and out of date. They said they have been shipping Aviators to dealers since the end of October. I also noticed they began production of the Mach 1 Mustang in early November, it has the same basic engine. So, if there was any kind of issue it appears to have been quickly addressed and done so before the official launch date.
I have an Aviator ordered. My dealer told me yesterday that it is on the train and may be here (Denver) before Thanksgiving. Has anyone taken delivery, yet?
I noticed in the TV review of the Aviator that Motorweek did this weekend that they were able to send their test vehicle from 0-60 mph in 6.9s. That is faster than the C&D test at 7.6s. C&D are pretty aggressive drivers. Does anyone know if the one Motorweek tested was 2WD or 4WD? That may explain the difference.
Motorweek's test Aviator was an all-wheel-drive model without AdvanceTrac, so it had viscous coupling with a 35%-65% front-rear torque split. (A different system is used when AdvanceTrac is added.)
I think it's either a mistake or a huge difference in test conditions. It felt quick but not that quick. I think mid to upper 7's is probably closer to reality.
RV is 54/47/38, respectively, for 24/36/48 month term.
This should be the RV for 15,000 m/year lease, as ford credit normally only announce RV for 15k lease. For a 12k/year lease, most of the time they add 2% to announced RVs.
If true, those residuals would be better than I thought they were, though still weak compared to the competition. Makes the Aviator marginally more affordable than the 42% residual for 36 months that was suggested here earlier.
dec 2 will be some better lease deals according to dealer i spoke to today about lincoln in general compared to right now...but have they ever given aggressive rates or rebates on the navigator?
After waiting nearly 5 weeks to get one I finally got an Aviator brochure in the mail today. What a joke! I am very disappointed in it. I guess I expect too much after getting BMW and MB brochures over the years. There is very little information in it. All of the vehicles are the same color...silver birch. No Aviator's in other colors. I especially want to the blue color on it. The only new picture I saw was of the navigation system which didn't look too bad.
Oh well hopefully the vehicle will perform better than the brochure did.
Has anyone seen one at their local dealer yet. Not me as of today.
Is the brochure you got about 12x20, and a quarter inch thick? Cause that's what they sent me, and I thought it was very impressive. I also know what it costs to produce that, and it ain't the least bit cheap.
I have noticed that Ford marketing tends to choose 1 color to feature each car in all ads and brochures. Probably the color the focus group rates the highest for the car.
If you didn't get the one I'm talking about, I can probably get you one.
Yes, without measuring I believe so. It's the one with the "bed springs" on the front.
But it wasn't the quality it was the quantity. It was a nicely laid out design but there is very little info inside. And if you notice some of the first few pages don't even show any parts of the Aviator.
This is my first interest in a Lincoln vehicle so I may not be used to their printed marketing.
Anyway thanks for the offer but I believe it's the same one. I'll wait till they hit the lots. I'm in no hurry b/c I want Advanctrak and navigation system if I order one.
I have just heard that Ford is again recalling all Aviatiors produced to date(approx 2,000) to repair a shifter cable that is apparently snapping. No telling how long this is going to delay the introduction.
Comments
Regardless "if" I decided to buy one I want it to be right from the beginning. So I don't mind the wait if necessary but then again Ford better get there act together on these launches. It seems everyone later has some type of problem.
In other news...
The Dec 2002 issue of Car and Driver landed in my mailbox today. It has a nice write-up on the Aviator. They seemed very impressed but held back some until a direct track compairison could be made with the MDX and others.
Didn't find it on the website but should be on newstands soon if not now.
Come on, Toyota/Lexus, GET IT TOGETHER!!!
I think 41% is at 2wd Explorer level. But if you take into account of the $2000 incentive (1500+500) on a $30000 '03 Explorer, even Explorer has 44% left after 3 years.
Anybody has any different numbers? Thanks in advance.
Last week I spoke with a dealer who was up to FedEx Field for a preview of the Aviator. One major problem he and many of the other salesmen had was the tight quarters in the front seat. Anyone 6' and over will have a serious problem with comfort.
I don't understand why the Aviator brochure says the NAV system will be available in December and now they say the end of January. Is this rocket science?
All said and done - I am out of the Aviator market and bought another SUV. Price was also a factor. With the NAV you will be up to $50,000.
Good luck
They're having problems and they're fixing them before customers take delivery. They could've shipped them, pretended nothing was wrong and fixed problems under a TSB. At least give them credit for doing the right thing.
Bob
The thing to do is buy a laptop with a GPS nav antenna and software. If the software proves to be "buggy" then downloads will be available over the net.
T/L Map updates, a single DVD platter, are $450, and That's only a MAP update, firmware flaws, bugs, are unique to the year of the vehicle and will remain.
Since most SUV's are taller than their brotheren they have a greater tendancy to roll over.
Load up your SUV's cartop carrier with about 500 lbs, go around a tight corner at high speed....
the volvo premium model i drove seemed set up like a minivan on the inside..esp the dash
the driver s seat area seemed cramped to me...otherwise...seemed ok...i heard from a friend.that the dvd entertainment screen for the volvo will be on the ceiling area but the dvd unit itself may very well be strapped/attached to the back of one of the front seats
the dvd entertainment is supposed to be available as a dealer instal after march..
they are asking sticker price right now
the volvo handled capably..the moon roof seemed to be situated a bit too much to the rear of the front seat to me for the driver to enjoy it
the navigator road nicely ..but i certainly had a difficult time getting used to the bulk coming from my explorer...I drove the ultimate edition.but no rear dvd ent or navigation was in it
the volvo will cost slightly more initally if you add the running board package and option it out similarly to the Aviator from what i can see.
It seems to me the volvo will have a much higer residual value as the first several years go by.
my friend just bought a bmw M5 v6...
focusing on the residual value.. and ride handling
the aviator seems to have everything i want..dealer said she was supposed to get one in today..but she didnt know about the engine problems..
anyone have any idea how they will fix the glich...beef up the cooling capabilities for the engine?
It's fast, 0-60 in 7.6sec, faster than Acura and Lexus, it brakes well, lots shorter than the Acura and has an awesome ride and steering according to Car and Driver. The editors couldn't get over how well the Aviator rode and handled and how well the transmission shifted.
The engine feels "as smooth as a BMW X5"
I called a local dealer and they are supposed to get 2 in this weekend. Can't wait to drive it.
Steve, Host
"Aviator News Brief: SLAP Is Reporting That The Front Suspensions On All Lincoln Aviators Have Been Repaired And Are Ready To Ship!"
For those that don't know..SLAP means St Louis Assembly Plant
Hope it's true!
By the way my wife asked me yesterday when we saw a Lincoln ad on tv "what the theme song is from?" I didn't know does anyone here know? Kind of catchy if you ask me.
Steve, Host
Artist: Mr Scruff
Album: Keep it Unreal
Song: Get a Move On
Its a cool song, and Lincoln put it to good use with that Navi commercial.
It mentioned rerouting the exhaust and / or changing to a higher capacity water pump in an attempt to cool down the operating temperature of the engine.
If anyone has any information about this engine issue please inform us.
Thank You
www.pbs.org/motorweek
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10
Thanks.
http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/roadtests/2002/december/0212_roadtest_aviator.xml
http://www.auto.com/reviews/iwirk2_20021102.htm
http://www.detnews.com/2002/insiders/0210/16/-613990.htm
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/ly/03aviator.htm
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=5436&sid=181&n=157
for 24/36/48 month term.
This should be the RV for 15,000 m/year lease, as ford credit normally only announce RV for 15k lease. For a 12k/year lease, most of the time they add 2% to announced RVs.
Can any dealer confirm these numbers?
What are the residuals on the Navigator?
dec 2 will be some better lease deals according to dealer i spoke to today about lincoln in general compared to right now...but have they ever given aggressive rates or rebates on the navigator?
Oh well hopefully the vehicle will perform better than the brochure did.
Has anyone seen one at their local dealer yet. Not me as of today.
I have noticed that Ford marketing tends to choose 1 color to feature each car in all ads and brochures. Probably the color the focus group rates the highest for the car.
If you didn't get the one I'm talking about, I can probably get you one.
But it wasn't the quality it was the quantity. It was a nicely laid out design but there is very little info inside. And if you notice some of the first few pages don't even show any parts of the Aviator.
This is my first interest in a Lincoln vehicle so I may not be used to their printed marketing.
Anyway thanks for the offer but I believe it's the same one. I'll wait till they hit the lots. I'm in no hurry b/c I want Advanctrak and navigation system if I order one.