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Comments
My question to TMLTML is: what is the invoice for LE Auto? In his post, it said $18,887.55; but, according to the Edmunds, it is $18,301. Is $18,887.55 the LE Auto invoice in Texas?
The $18,887.55, includes the national and regional advertising fees.
-$750 rebate = $18,137.55
$1133.60 = 6.25% State Sales Tax
$45.98 = Dealer Inventory Tax
$50.00 = Documentary Fee
$72.30 = License Fee
$33.00 = Title Fee
$5.00 = Deputy Fee
$21.75 = State Inspection Fee
======
$19,499.18 Drive-out
Does the customer have to pay it? Or, could the customer only pay part of it? I saw some advertisings with $17800-17900 for a Camry LE Auto in Texas.
If it was advertised, then it's a loss leader designed to bring people into the dealership to try to get that "great" price, and is probably already sold. Only one vehicle is ever available at that advertised price. Customers physically present at the dealership are told it is sold, and are then pressured to switch to a higher priced vehicle. No one who calls will ever be told that the vehicle has been sold, since it defeats the objective; draw people into the showroom. No, they won't offer the same "profit" margin over invoice as the advertised car, on a different car. It's a loss leader. It's an interesting learning experience if you actually go to the showroom, but you won't get the advertised price. But it's a waste of time if you think you can actually get the advertised price. It's not false advertising if they actually sell the vehicle at the advertised price, and one is all they have to sell. While I believe it should be considered false advertising for them to say the vehicle is "still available" on the phone, when they know it has already been sold, they can always say "The salesperson made a mistake. Sorry?". That's what they said to me. I would not be surprised to learn that people at the newspaper where the ad is placed, are the ones who buy the car before the ad is ever published.
Also, the advertised price is the starting point for the addition of all kinds of fees. The customer pays all advertising fees. You can explain to them why you shouldn't pay the fee till you are blue in the face, but they won't budge. That's why I only focus on the drive-out price. It bypasses their "nibbling" negotiating technique.
Remember, an online auto service is just another middleman in the supply chain who wants to get paid for their work. You can always do better if you deal directly with the dealership. However, if that's too much work for you, then go thru the shopping service.
On your trade-in, they may lowball you, so get a 7 day quote from a place like Carmax, so you have something to compare their trade-in offer to. It will speed up the "negotiation" of the price of your trade-in if you can show you are getting a good price from someone else. Don't be afraid to take your trade-in somewhere else. I sold the old Camry to Carmax, because the dealer really could not match their price.
The information is pretty accurate and upfront- configure a vehicle, and carsdirect.com will tell you the MSRP, the invoice, and their price, inclusive of any cash back offer. By backing that out of the price, you can determine what the carsdirect.com offer is. If it suits what you feel is a fair deal, based on information provided on boards like this one, then I'd say... go for it!
The only caveat with carsdirect.com is that the actual website allows for configuration of vehicles that may not exist in your area.
To this end, anyone consider a Toyota would do well to first visit www.buyatoyota.com, enter his/her zip code, choose the model and trim line, and then become familiar with which packages the vehicles in the purchaser's region are equipped.
Go back to carsdirect.com, configure accordingly, and there you have it!
~alpha
How are the two related???
ABS is WAAAAAAAY more valuable, IMO, than an extended warranty contract.
~alpha
I ordered the car and was waiting for some surprise, but the surprise was on me. Everything went smoothly and exactly according to the prices that I was quoted. Even F&I was quick and painless.
Sounds a little high to me. In SE, camry LE auto with no options is around 17K, sometimes as low as 16.5K. Last summer I saw the same car in Fl area advertised for 15.5K after 1K rebate, so selling price was 16.5K. YMMV.
ABS and Side Air bags (No ABS in TX on 4 Cyl). My price is ~ $20K, drive-out is ~ $22K. Seems OK.
However, the dealer will want me to sign an Arbitration Agreement. Has anyone else experienced this? Other than walking out, any other options? Opinions?
- Hank2
Don Davis, Texas Toyota, Toyota of Ft. Worth had various newspapers offers of Camry LE for ~ $16K. I don't guarantee that those deals would be available when a buyer appears.
-Hank2
This incident took place at Keyes Toyota in Van Nuys, CA last august. It just surprises me as to how these guys remain in business indulging in such practices and they continue with this BS every week.
The Camry SE has a slightly more sportily tuned version of the SAME suspension that is offered in the LE/XLE. Its a bit firmer, but bouncy- it is not. As I said, its the same MacPherson setup, just tuned slightly more aggressively.
Also, daveyo- Carson Toyota has some of the most agressive offers of any I have EVER seen. I dont think you will find 15,000 Camrys anywhere else in the country, at least not with "no strings attacthed".
~alpha
Thanks in advance.
The Sandman :-)
This was in Ga. I just checked edmunds. Invoice for your car in my area is 21,700 and a $500 rebate. So you should be closer to 21,000 IMHO. Good luck.
Dont believe everything a salesman or dealer says-a genuinely nice guy that my aunt recently got an 04 Civic from at an OUTSTANDING price truly believed the car had a 5 speed automatic transmission. The Accord does. The Civic absolutely does not. So even when they're being honest, they can still be wrong.
You find the suspension harsh compared to what other sporty models?
I've driven an SE 4 and the new 3.3L V6, neither felt "harsh". Certainly, I prefer the ride of the Accords and Camry SEs of the world. The Altima is a bit rougher than either, IMO.
~alpha
BTW, I only believe what I found from car manufacturers, sales brochures, and internet research. I always did my homework before hitting the showroom.
1. How much did you pay in June?
2. Did you have to sign an Arbitration Agreement?
(Or is this new for 2004)
Thanx,
Hank2
Premium Leather Package
Floor and Cargo mats
Toyo Guard
Sun Roof Wind Deflector
Rear Spoiler
I paid 24,500 after a $500 rebate. I did well and I believe we paid well below invoice.
I love the car. Awesome
What equipments that you have on yours beside ABS and sid airbags? $20K is good if you have the same options like mine plus side airbag. What is arbitration agreement? I am new to this and I didn't sign anything like this.
I have seen many SEs around. I think this is a second most popular model of Camry beside LE 4 cyl.
Sandman46, I live in Davie. I have never been to the locations you mentioned. Have visited Toyota of Hollywood, would never buy from them. I will check the locations you mentioned. Thank you.
Masspector, I just checked Edmunds for my area and it came up with $22,272 minus $500 rebate final total is $21,772. It would seem that the $21,800 is legit. Thank you for the response.
I also hear that Kendall Toyota has some good prices.
Let me know how it all plays out!
The Sandman :-)
Convenience Plus Package B(6-disc changer, moon roof),
Black Pearl Emblems,
floor mat,
I was offered at $20,000 after 750 rebate. Is it a good deal? Ready to buy it on Monday.
I haven't found anyone who has had to deal with the arbitration agreement. People have given opinions, but no eperience. It says that I will have to arbitrate rather than sue, if something is wrong with the car... and I'll have to travel 30 miles away to file.
-Hank2
The quote I recieved was from Continental Toyota in Countryside, IL. The car's MSRP was stated as $20,574, including $515 for delivery, processing, and handling fee. (Although the MSRP later turned out to be $20,652 on the window sticker-the $78 increase was apparently because the buyatoyota.com website says the Z1 option of cargo net, carpet/trunk mat set and first aid kit was $184, but the window sticker says it is $262.)
So my qouted price for the car was $18,544. I also got Toyota's current $750 Camry rebate subtracted from that. Finally I gave them a printed copy of a $100 coupon on the CT website (since removed from their website), so a net price of $17,694.
Then add a doc service fee of $53.52, State tax of $1189.83, County tax of $142.48, and license plates-$80, for an out-the-door grand total of $19,159.83.
I liked the no-haggle aspect of the internet price quote system, since I am NO negotiator!
Is this lawful once your in the dealership and told the Salesperson you are buying the Advertise Car thru a Credit Union and would need a Purchase Order, they told me that the price $14,999 is for CASH or CHECK on the spot only! and on their Ad it's not indicated that you buy the car cash. They told me that they do not allow Credit Union financing on Ad Cars.
Help!
Now, I have my favorite question: Did you see or sign anything that looked like an Arbitration Agreement? I'm trying to see if Toyota is doing this anywhere other than Texas.
Thanx,
Hank2
Saying that Ad Car are not available for credit union or bank financing w/ I have, next was if I like the car they need a check or cash on the spot to take it home for $14,999 + lic & docs.
I double checked their Ad that day and did not see any comments or remarks or prints saying this car is not available for credit union or bank financing. And the way they treat you, WOW it's very degrading.
Next step, they thought they have rocked my boat making me feel vulnerable and they could smell fear, lost, confusion and cast doubt on my capacity to pay. They were preparing for the opportunity to grab you by your neck and plea for mercy if you qualify to their financing.
If you have a good credit great but what if you have an average credit and worst a bad one!
What a way to be treated, you have the capacity to pay! and you know it. Have you heard the line "You are stealing the car". I answered them back that I am buying the car legally w/c was advertise but YOU(car dealer) are stealing my money squeezing more to the cars worth. Next familiar line was "The Ad Car is a Loser", we do not make money on these car so why advertise it, if you do not want to sell it to qualified buyers. Cause they won't make any money, what a joke!
The total sticker price on the SEV6 I wanted (one of two on the lot) was $25,030 ($23,315 base +$515 delivery +$1200 required package [spoiler, odds and ends]). After a bit of back-and-forth I was quoted a purchase price of $22,200 which included a $1000 rebate (6% tax, DMV fees were extra). There had to be a couple hundred LE4's on the lot. I selected one with a total sticker price of $20,952 ($19,875 base +$515 delivery +Anti-lock brakes +Mats/Cargo Mat/first aid kit). I managed to negotiate a purchase price including the $1000 rebate of $17,200 (6% tax, DMV fees were extra).
The bottom line for me is that I could not justify the extra $5000 for the SEV6. Am I crazy or just plain cheap?
Status thus far:
I've been driving the base LE4 for a couple of weeks; it drives better than any car I've ever driven (includes my 1996 V6 Avalon, and rented Opel Vectras, a couple of mid-size Mercedes, Renaults and VWs and a host of GM and Ford cars.)cars
I'm in a similar boat - I want a 4 cyl with ABS, side airbags, mats, and 16" steel wheels. I asked the dealer if the LE with ABS included drum or 4 wheel disc ... and they couldn't give me a straight answer. And the Toyota service 800# told me to talk to my dealer.
I never did get a straight answer, but I can't get 16" wheels on the LE 4 Cyl. So I went with the SE, special ordered from the factory. Cost is $20K + ~$2K TTL etc. vs. base LE for $16K (not validated).
I imagine your LE is 4 Cyl, not 6 cyl and that is
~$1000. ABS is about $300, altho I've seen dealers try to get more for this option.
The SE6 may have some different toys that I'm not aware of, over the LE6, but it does have a little different styling, wheels, suspension, which I would estimate at another $1000.
I think the additional $$$ is pure profit by playing off midlife crisis for guys who can't afford a 'Vet.
Having said that, I've been driving a 1989 Camry for 15 years with no problems. Very High Quality car. I think Toyota experimented in 1992-1997, then learned from their mistakes. So, I think the 2004 or 2005 is going to be some of their best for the next 15 - 20 years. So, I'm purposely putting my 1989 out to pasture (Giving to my nephew as his first car... my kids are too old for an old, boring Camry.)
I like the ride of the LE better than the SE. The SE handles a little better, but suspension is tighter and the seats aren't as well-cushioned. But I got my safety equipment, which is worth the extra $2K to me.
-Hank2
BTW - Did you see anything about an Arbitration Agreement?
~alpha
XLE 4dr Sedan (2.4L 4cyl 4A)
HV XLE Premium Plus Package
GY Side and Curtain Airbags
HD Heated Front Seats
CF Carpet Floor/Trunk Mat Set
I got a offer for $22141 (already included $750 cash rebate), before tax, title and registration.
Is this price good?
-Hank2
There is an SE model designation, which includes, among other things, 4 wheel disc brakes, 16 inch tires, power moonroof, fog lights, sport instrumentation, and an enhanced, sport-tuned suspension. The V6 models also come standard with alloys and ABS.
There is a "Limited Edition" model, which Toyota has chosen to call an LE with an "SE" meaning... "Special Edition" package... which includes 16-inch unique alloy wheels, fog lights, a unique grille, unique interior fabric, and special badging, wood trim interior, and Pearl White only- an exquisite color.
~alpha