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Comments
Oh, OK, maybe some lucky folks who have never needed to ask more than oil change and normal maintenance (and those that do both faithfully are the least likely to have other problems) might be ambivalent about the service guy....
1) Where does the cargo net attach, and 2) what is the purpose of the hook on the underside of the cargo floor inside the headrest storage area?
Thanks for any insight.
to the plastic hooks and chrome tie-downs on side and on the floor of the cargo area,
and 2) what is the purpose of the hook on the underside of the cargo floor inside the headrest storage area?
my understanding is when the 3rd row seats are up, thus headrests are removed from the storage, one can keep that lid open and use those hooks for grocery bags (the plastic ones). personally, I always keep the lid shut and the floor flat.
The Pilot does great in the snow. It should perform as well as your Jeep. I have an 02 Wrangler and while it can go through slightly deeper snow than my Pilot, I prefer driving the Pilot during snow/ice conditions. The Pilot seems to be predictable and easy to control, my Wrangler is far from either. Of course, your GC has a longer wheelbase than my TJ, so it's not the best comparison.
You'll love the gas mileage improvement!
-Pete
Yeah, I finally figured them out. The cargo net had me confused because I hadn't removed it from the storage area and (incorrectly) assumed it was a net that holds stuff, not the type designed to simply strap down or keep things from rolling around. As for the hooks inside the lid, I was puzzled by the one that's attached to the lid with a string; I assume it's there to hook onto the middle headrest and keep the lid open.
Thanks for the response.
Also, she's worried about the recall on her Pilot, due to its early VIN # and the higher mileage it has, ~ 50K.
Also, does anyone know of a dealer that offers loaner cars? We usually had no problem getting loaners for our VWs in Dallas while our cars were in the shop for service or warranty work, even tho the cars were bought used.
Thanks
For reference I would be trading up from a 2002 CR-V EX. I would probably add remote entry, roof rack, and reverse sensing system to the LX.
now, of course, you can say "well, i'll just buy new wheels and get the windows tinted", but then you've spent half of what you saved over buying the EX in the first place and you still have black moldings (and this is not even getting into the interior upgrades like the better stereo and added steering wheel controls).
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
And I hit 3,000 miles last week, not a rattle of any kind, no problems at all.
As a result, a lot of the smaller dealers don't order any at all. I think our store (very high volume) MAY have sold three or four total.
Consumers' Most Wanted Vehicles for 2004
Steve, Host
Mo
Thanks to all of you.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
On the other hand, you're seriously suggesting others should consider an Explorer, Envoy or Navigator instead of a Pilot?? Talk about jumping from a frying pan into the bloody fire. There are plenty of decent quality SUV's out there to choose from now, but in their wildest dreams, Ford and GM don't make anything remotely in the same league as Honda when it comes to overall quality. And the depreciation on a Ford Explorer, rebates and giveaways notwithstanding, is significantly greater than the only decent alternative you suggested, a $60k Land Cruiser.
For the record, I'm not replacing our SUV until the 2005's come out and even then, will only consider a Pilot or MDX if I can absolutley confirm the automatic transmission issues have been resolved. But if I am not so convinced, there is the XC90, GX470, and a few other Japanese/German alternatives to consider. If push came to shove, I'd go Korean before I went to Ford. Just my opinion.
I've owned several Hondas over the years and the Odyssey has had more "build quality" issues than any of them. From my personal experience I would definitely not rule out the Explorer. For my next vehicle, I'll consider another Explorer. I think that the Explorer IS in the same league as the Pilot. It really depends what you want to do with the vehicle. If you want to tow something like a boat, then I'd give the Explorer the edge. If you want to haul people around, give the edge to the Pilot.
Heck with rebates Ford is offering, one could get a 7 year 100K extended warranty on the Explorer and still be close in price to the Pilot with a 3 year 36K warranty.
Just my opinion.
By the way its just ignorance for you to consider a German car more reliable than an American. Good luck finding parts. a certified technician and when you can't find a reliable good mechanic to fix those overly complex vehicles so you have to go to a dealer and pay ridiculous prices for one of their mechanics.
#1 Acura, #2 Toyota, #3 Lexus, #4 Honda, #5 Mazda, #6 Subaru, #7 Nissan.....#15 Ford....#29 Cadillac (dead last). The best rating for an American make is Lincoln at #10.
I may have - and I admit it - a strong bias against the plasticky look and, in my opinion, shoddy fit and finish, of most American cars. But, I will grant you, that Ford seems to have a good reputation in the pick-up truck crowd. As for the Ford Explorer, I don't want to pick a fight with 300,000 buyers, but on the flip side, the Explorer, give away prices and rebates notwithstanding, has the WORST resale value of any SUV listed in Kiplinger's annual review. So, if it was such a great long term vehicle, why doesn't anyone want to buy a used one??
Like I said, the Pilot isn't perfect. Nor are the 9 Japanese brands ranked higher than Ford. But the rankings of Consumer Reports generally follow my instincts on where to bank on reliability and quality.
Anyone heard what else may be added for 2005 (aside from colors)?
Any guesses if increased competition will lower out the door prices?
Also, the MDX may get some of the new Acura TL features, like a better Nav system, Bluetooth phone, etc. (What I'd really like to see is a 6-speed manual in either the MDX or Pilot, but I'm not holding my breath on that).
Volvo is coming out with a Yamahe built V8 w/ 6-speed auto in their XC90 which should prove interesting.
I don't expect the Pilot prices to come down. They are already low compared to competition and are selling for $500 +/- over invoice in PA and Ohio. But I do think the improvements that may be on the horizon make the 2005 model year worth the wait if you can swing it.
JD Power recently ranked 2004 initial quality as:
lexus 87
Cadillac 93
jaguar 98
Honda 99
buick 100
Mercury 100
Hyndai 102
Infiniti 104
Toyota 104
Oldsmobile 110
Chevrolet 119
Industry average was 119 problems per 100.
Top three for midsize SUV were: Toyota 4 Runner, Honda Pilot, Mercury Mountaineer.
Top Three for Fullsize SUV were: Chevy Suburban, Chevy Tahoe, Toyota Sequoia.
Aren't opinions great?
I am planning to buy the 2004 honda pilot exL with nav. How serious is this automatic transmission problem? Is Honda's fix (i.e. recall solution) resolve the problem completely...or is there still concern for the auto transmission at 50,000 or even 100,000 miles?
thanks.
Of course honda will never ever match ford in total sales.
Well, I think there are so many factors at play here.
One is that, yes, it is pretty much worth it. For instance, we tried out the Trailblazer EXT before the Pilot. Even with all the rebates and incentives bringing the Trailblazer to well below invoice, it was right around the same out-the-door price as a Pilot at sticker. And driving both back to back made it painfully obvious that the Pilot was far better suited to our needs and desires. The fact that we got about 1100 off the Pilot was an added bonus.
Also, I suspect that all of these buyers lined up out the door to pay full price is a rumor. We only had one dealer (this is when the Pilot was still very new to the market) who did not call us back after we walked because they quoted us sticker. All the others were willing to deal to some degree or another. I think Honda dealers seem to have this unspoken pact that if enough of them stick to their guns and insist to all the customers that sticker is the only option - then the customers will start to believe it and actually pay it. When we bought ours, a dealer we had been negotiating with asked us what we paid, we told them. So then we hear from the dealer we purchased from that "Dealer XYZ called and complained about the price we are selling to you at. What did you tell them?" Of course, I really didn't think anything of telling them about the deal we got. In a way, it was my way of getting back at them for not giving us a good deal. I had no idea they would call the other dealership and cry about it. Strange business this car dealership thing is.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
As far as the "pilotmania", aka buyers lining up to pay sticker for a Pilot, I am shocked! Well, no, not at all. You guys (Honda loyalists) got trained (some call it brainwashed, not me) by Honda dealers for so long, that you, the buyer, actually believe a Honda is better than any competitive vehicle, AT ANY PRICE.
Play the game on your term, not the dealer's. If he tells you no Honda dealer will give you this price, tell him you can buy a much nicer equipped so-and-so at $2000 below that. It was funny to see the sales guy quickly resorted to just one line, "But it's a Honda."
FTR, I paid $2,000 off MSRP for my '03 Pilot EXL-RES, in Dec. 2002, at the tail end of peak demand for the Pilot when lots of folks were still paying 1-2G over MSRP. And my deal wasn't even the best at the time. So, deals can be had, even for a Pilot. You just need to work harder, and not fall for the dealer BS.
They won't sweat one bit, they will just decline your offer, nicely I hope.
You see, it's the MARKET that determines pricing on cars, houses and any other commodity item. Whatever the invoice is has no bearing on the VALUE of the car.
Or you can buy something else. Maybe you'll pay close to the same price just for the satisfaction of buying for a hundred dollars ofer invoice, maybe you'll even pay less, I don't know.
But, five years later when you go to trade for something else, maybe that "something else" will be worth thousands of dollars less than a five year old Pilot?
Total Cost of Ownership...That's what counts in the long run!
Also you would have a year with no miles either which would add to the value at trade in time.
1998: $7593
1999: $9227 (+$1634)
Will probably be more significant on the Pilot.
However, at this point, even if our current SUV were crushed by a falling tree, I would make do with our other two vehicles until the 2005's come out. Not just to get the newer model year which is important for resale value. But also because of the potential improvements that will be coming. Personally, with all of the recalls and problems with the automatic transmission on the 2003-2004 Pilot, why would anyone buy a 2004 this late in the model year. I do not believe Honda has made ANY mid year engineering corrections to correct this problem.
isellhondas,
Perhaps you could enlighten us on the actual facts of Honda/Acura transmission problems and response? As I understand it, the Pilot, Odyssey and previous MDX and TL 5-speed automatics had engineering design flaws that have NOT been fully corrected as part of the recall process. Honda/Acura have provided a band aid fix for this bullet hole and have provided extended powewrtrain warranties (which, by the way, only match the standard Kia powertrain warranty). Hardly the response I would have expected from Honda. I have two personal friends who are on their 2nd and 3rd Acura TL transmissions respectively, and, apparantly, the replacement ones have exactly the same engineering flaws. Supposedly, the 2004 MDX received a revised transmission, but given the circumstances, I don't trust that even this is true or has corrected the problem.
As someone who has sold Hondas for 9 years, you should be pretty concerned that someone like me, who has been a loyal fan and customer for 20+ years, is offended by Honda's Ford-like response.
I loved my Honda S2000, and I'm pleased so far with my Acura TL 6-speed. But I would never buy a 2004 product from either company with a 5-speed automatic. And, unfortunately, Honda/Acura are too conservative to offer a 6-speed manual in the Pilot/MDX. I can only hope Honda both corrects the problems for 2005 and they come up with a reasonable explanation. Or I may be forced into overpaying for a GX470, downsizing to a X5, or opening up a different can of worms with an XC90.
I'm always happy to answer any questions to the best of my ability but I won't respond to questions tainted with sarcasm like yours.
Sounds like you've drawn your own conclusions and made up your own mind anyway.
If you don't "trust" that the potential problems have been corrected, I'm not going to try to change your mind.
As far as those other makes? Well, look before you leap, they aren't perfect either.
So I'll put my sarcasm aside and ask you nicely to give us all here the facts as you know them. I would only ask that you be as specific as possible with regards to what exactly Honda has done (and Acura, if you know) to correct the automatic transmission problems. I've got a lot of "they corrected it" reponses from Acura salespeople and even service managers with regards to the 2004 MDX, but without any "and here's how" details. Unfortunately, that's exactly what was told to my friend with a 2003 TL who subsequently needed to have his transmission replaced at 18,000 miles.
Believe me, I want to remain a Honda/Acura loyalist. And you're absolutely right, the other makes aren't perfect. Neither is the company I own and run. But when we make a mistake, we bend over backwards to be forthright about it and correct it with full disclosure along the way.
So, please, I do want to hear what you have to say and I suspect other Pilot shoppers here do too.
"Hondas are in short supply and in high demand and command brand loyalty from captive buyers and have high trade-in value.So all you gullible buyers must let Honda dealers rip you off at MRSP or more, and you must excuse all its faults because after all it is a HONDA".
Thats the essence of all his posts on the Honda forum.You won't get any more info other then that from him.
((:-))
and where did you get the information that makes you think this?
As far as those with multiple transmissions, I can only assume, at this point, without more detailed and proven information about the specific instances, that these people merely received new transmissions and the techs may or may not have said it was fixed just to cover their butts. What should they say? "well, mr. jones, we put in a new tranny, but its the same as the old, so see you next year!"
Anyway, the recall is very recent and I have yet to see anyone complain that they had the 2nd gear oil jet fix performed and had a failed transmission afterwards.
I don't know what you folks want from isell. He's not Honda corporate. He's a salesman. He can only share what he knows from personal experience. Considering he has more contact with Hondas in one day then most of us do in a month or even a year, I think his personal experiences are valid. If you choose to ignore him because you think he is just being a shill, then that's your perogative. But trying to grill him over corporate policies or about what you perceive to corporate conspiracies is a big waste of time and proves absolutely nothing in regards to your concerns.
Just as isell said, if you don't trust the problem has been fixed, there is nothing more you can learn here at this point in time. The only thing we can do is come back to this problem in 3 years and either say "hey, look, all these fixed transmissions failed" or "hey, look, I told you this problem was a thing of the past." And I'm not talking about "well, my brother's uncle's friend is on his 4th transmission since getting the 2nd gear oil jet." We need real hardcore proof here. That's the only way to answer these questions.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I tell things as I see them. If you choose not to believe me, that's fine. If you choose to buy something other than a honda product, that's fine too.
I DON'T speak for Honda Corporate.
AS I UNDERSTAND IT...The problems have been identified and fixed. The current VIN numbers being sold have been taken care of.
If you are distrustful, scared or Anti-Honda, you should buy something else.
VERY FEW of the vehicles inspected have shown any signs of trouble. Those that do will get transmissions installed.
The sky is NOT falling in spite of the doomsayers and handwringers.
By the same token, Honda isn't perfect but I'm pleased at the way they accept responsibility and step up to the plate to do the right thing.
I suppose some will find fault with that posture as well?
I was just summarizing the long and short of your views on this forum.
You say you don't speak for Honda corporate but then contradict yourself with a very assertive statement which I will reproduce so it does't appear to come from my mouth!
------------------------------------------------------------------ - - - - ------------------------------------------------------------------ --------
>>.AS I UNDERSTAND IT...The problems have been identified and fixed. The current VIN numbers being sold have been taken care of.<<<
------------------------------------------------------------------ ----
------------------------------------------------------------------ ----
Where did your UNDERSTANDING of above assertive statement, come from?
I must say you are man full of SELF-CONTRADICTIONS !!!!
PS.:Just trying to keep this dull board, lively!!
I think that means that as far as I know, based on all of the information that has been made available to me that the problems have been identified and solved.
Hardly an "assertive" statement.
I am not a corporate spokesperson and I am not qualified or empowered to make statements on behalf of the company.
Simply stating my personal views.
Made 'available' by whom ??
--a little bird
--a shop floor mechanic
--the local service mechanic
--local service engineer
--regional service engineer
--regional General Manager (service)
--CEO of Honda,USA.
Or you just dreamn't it one night!!
This is a very important piece of information for potential Pilot buyers who are going to shell out 28-30 grand of their hard earned money.
Those who have already bought one,need not concern themselves and please refrain from entering this debate !!