Honda Pilot 2003 through 2005

qbrozen

test drive it.

markjenn

Plus-sizing tilts the ride/handling compromise away from comfort/utilty and towards sportiness.

Your concerns are well-founded - the vehicle will probably ride much more stiffly and be much less capable in slipperly conditions. But it will probably handle more crisply and have a sportier feel. And big wheels are very "cool" these days.

All depends on what you want out of your Pilot. Personally, if I wanted a pavement-only sport SUV, I wouldn't screw around with bigger wheels on the Pilot, I'd get something else like an X5.

- Mark

qbrozen

only problem is that "slight" price difference.

sejinro

I am at a crossroads for deciding which vehicle to purchase for my wife for Christmas/Birthday. I have narrowed my decision down to the following:

Pilot EX-L w/DVD
Odyssey EX-L w/DVD
Odyssey Touring w/DVD
Sienna XLE w/DVD and w/AWD?

Situation:
1. One child with another on the way.
2. Yearly trip to Mammoth for skiing in December.
3. Yearly trip to Mammoth for camping in July with the need to tow a 3,000 lbs tent trailer.
4. Up to 3 other family members to haul during trips #2 and #3 above.

Well, which vehicle is the best fit given the situations above. I am also thinking about the Sequoia and 4Runner, but the Sequoia's mpg stinks and 4Runner's 3rd row seat is kinda of tight. My co-worker mentioned the MDX, but it seems overpriced.

rsharp

Not sure ANY of those autos will meet your demands. The Pilot is ok for all but the towing. It would likely handle the job of towing once a year but if you are loaded down in the mountains with a trailer...you might want more guts than any of these have to offer. In truth, the smaller VW Turage Has an incredible towing capacity but it is much smaller than the Pilot or a minivan. For towing that much weight and getting awd option you may have to go to a Sequoia.

sbcooke

Towing it (both the pilot and MDX) probably falls short. Also, the 3rd row seat is small. 2 kids in booster seats would fit great, adults for a long trip wouldn't fit great. The 3rd row in the pilot has 3 seat belts, however I think it is really a 2 seater. We have an MDX and its 3rd row seat is supposedly 4" smaller? We couldn't fit 3 people comfortably, and probably not 3 car seats.

The sequoia is a good option for the towing. Nissan has 2 new offerings, the Pathfinder and the Armada, you should check out those as well as a tahoe.

markjenn

The new Nissan Pathfinder might be an option. It's more truckish than the Pilot, has considerably higher towing limits, is bigger, and more power. No V8, but it has a solid V6 that puts out something like 270-hp. It should be reliable.

Another good option is the V8 4Runner, although it is smaller inside than the Pilot.

- Mark

sbcooke

The pathfinder is new this year though. You can expect some glitches and fixes to be required.

explorerx4

how about...
rent a suburban twice a year, or pay your other family members a franklin to drive themselves.

hint: many people go from a 2 door to a 4 door to avoid the hassle of having to seat/get kids out of row behind the door. why would you want to put the carseat kids in the 3rd row?

the 3rd row in an suv is probably safer than in a minivan, in most cases, beause it is higher off the ground. just my 2 cents.

sportymonk

Looked at a sales brochure today and found the SMALL 4 indicating something about towing but the footnote for the 4 wasn't to be found. Finally found the footnote of the previous page!!! Says the Pilot can tow 4500 pounds if pulling a boat and 3500 otherwise?????? Huh. A boat pound is a trailer pound I thought. Anybody know what the difference is?

Edited from 45 pounds to 4500 pounds . Ooopps my typo

stever

Sounds like a typo - boats pull easier, so I think they meant 4500 pounds.

We say 4500 for boats: link

Steve, Host

markjenn

Honda says that boats are more aerodynamic and thus you don't load the tow vehicle as heavily. I'd glean from this that the Pilot has the power to tow 4500 lbs but vehicle stability starts to get seriously compromised above 3500.

If I was regularly towing a 4000 lb boat, I'd be looking for a different vehicle.

- Mark

tidester

Honda says that boats are more aerodynamic and thus you don't load the tow vehicle as heavily.

I would advise against towing such a heavy load at speeds sufficient for aerodynamics to make much of a difference! :-)

tidester, host

bbug1

Maybe with 2 little ones the priority should be on daily life with a vehicle. Like someone posted, you can always rent a car/truck for the trips where you need to tow.

markjenn, I don't think the Pathfinder is a good option for most people with young children. While I think it is very cool and forward in style, it is smaller inside than the Pilot. Maybe it's just that I was so used to the Pilot, but the Pathfinder just felt odd and I preferred the handling of the Pilot, too.

BUT! Now we own an 05 Ody, and it wins hands down for ease with the kids. Easier loading, more space, and more options and toys.

robtayers

I would really like to know what you did to fix your Pilot driver's seat. I have tried aftermarket lumbars with little success. At the point, my choices are to fix this seat or to sell it and buy an Highlander, even though I think that the Pilot is a superior car, except for this horrible seat. Thanks, Bob

randy1

Steve,

Thanks for the info. I will officially remove the Pilot from consideration.

Randy

clpurnell

thanks for the info bbug

lumber2

I think the only thing made by Honda or Toyota that meets your needs is the Toyota Sequoia.
Its the only thing that will meet you tough demands.

sejinro

Thanks to everyone for the advice. Hmm, I am down to Pilot or Sequoia.

silverpiloto5

Still here, just a different username.
My "fix" certainly made the seat better (for me), but I would also prefer something more comfortable. Honda uses thin metal bars in pockets on the underside of the seat material to define the tucked portion of the seat bottom. Those bars are pulled down with hog rings to some hemp cord that is embedded in the seat foam. Those darn metal rods can be felt if you push down on the seat. I could feel them when seated also. I removed the seat covering and then removed those bars. I ended up covering the bars with a high density foam material (I think I ended up using strips of copper pipe insulation cut into long 1/2" wide strips). I then removed very small sections so that the hog rings could be reattached). I am in the process of having a contact in the automotive industry make an entirely new foam seat bottom of different density. I am still working on the details on the whole "bar and tucking" situation. In the end, I think one would be best to just use a nice covered pad and sit on that. I think the seat removal and process of wrapping those rods is more trouble that it was worth.

sejinro

I just checked the specs on the tent trailer which I will be acquiring from my parents. I found the specs to be 2,500 lbs. Looks I can probably save some money and go with the Pilot instead of the Sequoia, right? This would mean, probably, the total weight including humans and cargo would be total 3,500 lbs = 2,500(trailer) + 1,000(7 humans + cargo).

sbcooke

Depends on the humans and cargo.

With 7 people in the MDX/Pilot there will be limited space for cargo...unless you add a roof box carrier or load up the trailer with tons of stuff.

You probably should be OK for a once a year trip. You just need to be aware of how much you are loading up...for example when we go to Nantucket and I am worried about going over the 1000 lb. cargo limit of my truck and my mom cannot understand why I am upset that she wants to bring 50 lbs of potatoes in a huge lobster pot on top of all the other items(to save money at the store). Which of course we never eat all of anyway. This is usually when I have already figured out that we are at 1400 lbs people and cargo.

mrr162

You may want to check the owner's manual for the Pilot in terms of towing capacity with 7 passengers. If I'm not mistaken, I believe the MDX limits you to towing a few hundred pounds with 7 passengers on board. I assume the same would be true for the Pilot. The listed 4500/3500 lb towing capacity drops quickly as you add passengers. As much as I like the Pilot, it won't make my short list due to the limitations on towing.

lumber2

the 2500lb is probably the dry weight, ie no water, propane food nada. A good portion of the weight 3-500lbs will be on the tow hitch, so you need to reduce the payload in the towing vehicle accordingly. I really think you are pushing the limits of the Pilot and passenger safety

sbcooke

Ehh. I think it can handle it. 7 people is the tough call...4 adults and 3 kids? somewhere around 700-800 lbs unless everyone is very light? Let's add it up: 2 men@180 + 2 women 110/150 repectively + 3 kids @ approx 50 lbs each (assuming baby less 8 year old more)= 770. That leaves 300 lbs in the truck for gear. Then a 2500 lbs trailer, which you could probably pack with 500 lbs of gear (not advisable, but realistic).

I think the pilot can "handle" that much load, but it really isn't a tow vehicle. You run the risk of shortening the life of the transmission, brakes, etc. You are very close to the limits if not over...I suggest taking a second car and you are all set.

reichowjr

Sejinro, Based on the amount of people and weight you want to tow you have put yourself at the upper limits of the Honda. See my comments on towing post #6073.

I do not know how much experience you have towing but you never want to be at the absolute limits of your tow vehicle. The safety of your family is more important than the savings over the Sequoia.

Your actual trailer weight will be considerably more than the dry weight as indicated by another post.

sejinro

Okay, looks I can make it with the Pilot in terms towing with the human/cargo load, and it may increase the wear and tear on the vehicle. This may be okay, but if safety concerns are an issue, then I may need to re-think the purchase. What safety concerns are there? I do have experience towing...the trailer in question which is a 2,500 lbs tent trailer - I have pulled it with a V6 Tacoma and I had no problems. What about my mini-van choices, Odyssey and Sienna, or are these worser choices than the Pilot. Instead of the Sequioa, do I have any other choices that can accomodate "safely" my situation?

lumber2

See www.hondanews.com/CatID2078?mid=2002051648598&mime=asc

 

Max towing specs based on 4 people in the vehicle according to Honda.

I don't think a pilot is the right choice. Have you checked out the Nissan Pathfinder It might price a little less than the Sequoia.

reichowjr

Forget the mini-vans as a tow vehicle for that load. The rotors on the Pilot do not seem to be the best. Many have had them replaced or surfaced around 25,000 miles.

 

With the kind of weight you are considering you need a tow vehicle with a heavier duty braking system especially if your tent trailer does not have its own braking system.

 

Avoiding an accident is all about experience, vehicle control and braking. A heavier tow vehicle will have more control over your tent trailer.

 

The transmission is nothing short of frustrating when towing since you cannot manually put it in 4th gear. You will need to stop approximately every 170 miles to fill up which makes for a longer trip on a long haul.

markjenn

The Pilot would handle it, just with reduced safety margins and poorer handling than a larger vehicle.

 

Tow ratings are certainly useful, but there are really two key differentiators between a vehicle that works well towing and one that does it barely: weight and body-on-frame vs. unibody. To get more weight, you need to go up a size to a Sequoia, Expedition, Tahoe class of vehicle which you may not want to do. But you can get body-on-frame rather than unibody by going with the 4Runner or Pathfinder.

 

The Pilot is a great vehicle and will handle occasional towing fine, but it is based on the Odyssey unibody platform - it is most definitely a car-based SUV rather than a truck-based SUV. If there is any significant towing planned (weight, distance, frequency), there simply are better choices. I don't think you'd give up any significant reliability going with the 4Runner or Pathfinder. You would give up a little comfort and on-road smoothness, but that's the price you pay for a truck-based SUV.

 

- Mark

lumber2

Light bulbs went off. Co worker has a GMC Safari with 90k on it troublefree

Wonder if the Chevy Astro/GMC safari would work. Real chassis.. 5000lbs towing capacity, awd, 1500lbs payload...lots of space inside

But its a GM....

2005 is the last year of those modesl

lucybell

I currently own a 1995 Odyssey and intend to purchase an AWD Honda in the next year. I live in a rural area with lots of snow and have a steep driveway so I would like a automobile with AWD. I have studded winter tires on my Ody. but would prefer a more capable winter vehicle. Most of my daily trips are about 15 minutes in length on a highway - but I do travel long trips (2 hrs one way) at least once a month.

 

I had planned to buy the Element liking its versatility but was surprised by the low mileage as compared to the Pilot. According to Consumer Reports magazine tests there is only about 1 mpg difference between the Element and the Pilot for highway and city driving. The Pilot is much bigger so if I am going to get bad mileage I might as well go with the larger vehicle.

 

Can anyone give me advice regarding the pros and cons of the Element vs. the Pilot and even the CRV. The CRV is my last choice as it is small. There is only my husband and I so far in our family but I want enough space to lug mtn bikes, camping equipment and large items.

 

- Brenda Silver

Nova Scotia

qbrozen

Well, considering the Pilot costs about $10K more than the Element here in the US, the fact that it gets nearly as good gas mileage does not make for a good reason to buy the Pilot. If you can get away with the Element, then why not save the $10K?

sportymonk

I too am disappointed by the mileage on the Pilot, especially compared to the 24 city 29 hwy in my Impala LS. But as I have been studying many different vehicles, the basic question is (1) What are my needs? and (2) What best fits those needs?

 

There is no perfect vehicle. For me - The highlander is too small, the Sequoia too truck like; the Ody has too many problems right now. I could get better mileage with something else but when I weigh my need for room (Pilot) and my need for quality (Honda I hope) then I realize that I will just have to live with less mileage than I want. Back in the early 70s a lot of people traded their gas guzzlers for Pintos and Vegas and quickly found out that a family of four couldn't survive with that as a primary vehicle and long trips were a pain, literally. You have to go with what best fits your needs and that's the problem, separating needs from emotions and wants.

 

What has impressed me with the Pilot is the low number of issues or problems. Do wish the beige dash plastic looked better.

lumber2

I'm stuck in a similar mold to Sportymonk. I just don't want the expense of buying/feeding a Sequoia, but Honda doesn't have good record on the auto box, elsewhere you see numerous other complaints as well, then Honda claims safety but two row airbags only? So I'm hesitant to go Honda, but am I as hesitant with the Freestyle.

qbrozen

Honda claims safety but two row airbags only?

 

uhhh... doesn't matter what honda claims when the NHTSA gives it 5 stars on all front and side crash tests.

qbrozen

actually, I think you misunderstood lucybell's post. It was actually a complaint of the CRV's mileage, not the Pilot's.

 

And I'm not sure why you are comparing your FWD 3400 lb. V6 sedan's mileage to that of an AWD 4400 lb. SUV. Heck, when I put it that way, I think the LS only getting a few extra MPG is downright sad and a testament to the Pilot's efficiency.

lumber2

If the lack of side airbags allows a child to sustain head injuries due to his or her head striking the side of the vehicle - that matters to me as a parent because your child could sustain a closed head injury ie brain damage as a result

jay_24

And when your child falls asleep and their head rests on the side of the car (airbag) the outlook isn't good either.

 

I have 3 kids and mixed feelings on airbags. Some designs are better than others. In general airbags and kids don't mix well. One reason kids are in the back seat is because of airbags.

 

--jay

qbrozen

many newer vehicles (including the Pilot) have sensors that disable the airbags under certain circumstances. one of those, for instance, is when the passenger rests their head against the side of the car. The side airbag is disabled (child or not). Also, for the front airbag (I think I have these details correct, but not positive), the bag is disabled if the person sitting in the seat is not of a certain minimum weight.

junglejim

"I don't think you'd give up any significant reliability going with the 4Runner or Pathfinder."

 

You probably would gain reliability going with the 4Runner. And you could double the tow rating by going with the V8.

markjenn

Yes, I think if you wanted the overall best tow vehicle in a mid-sized SUV, a V8 4Runner is probably top dog. Not cheap though - the V8 is mostly sold on the top-line LE models, so you're probably looking at $35K+ for a typical V8 4Runner, a $5K bump over the Pilot and uncomfortably close to typicaly prices for the next size class up.

 

- Mark

gatorhawk

Actually, the side impact star rating from NHTSA only includes risk of chest injury. The risk of head injury is to me the greatest concern with side impact crashes. The IIHS has not tested the Pilot for side impact yet, but without side curtain airbags, it will be surprising if it does well. There is a history of multiple vehicles tested by IIHS going from worst to first when tested without and with curtain airbags meant to protect the head. It is this omission alone which will keep me waiting until next year for the next MY Pilot. It's amazing that the CR-V has curtains, but they didn't include it on the Pilot this year. Just like it took Honda a long time to finally include VSA. After reviewing IIHS data, both crash test and real world data, I will never buy a vehicle without curtains again. More info at IIHS.org.

 

"Head injury, although measured, is not currently included in the star rating."

-from NHTSA website regarding side impact star ratings

sportymonk

You are correct, I misread the post and thought the complaint was against the Pilot. My apologies.

 

Again, you are right on the mileage, I had not considered the difference in vehicles, if the Impala wighed another 1000 pounds I would probably be worse than the Pilot. (Not to mention replacing the rotors front AND REAR more often currently every 30 - 35K)

wmquan

Agreed with the comments about the NHTSA side-impact tests. It estimates the injury to one's pelvis and abdomen when being hit by a vehicle the approximate size of a Corolla. They don't even bother to measure head injury to the dummy.

 

Nowadays, with so many minivans and SUV's on the road, many side-impacts are focused higher on the vehicles. EuroNCAP began adding a "pole test," which while not as relevant, demonstrated that a 5-star-NHTSA vehicle could do poorly. The new IIHS test, which uses a barrier more similar to the size of an SUV, demonstrates that a number of 5-star NHTSA vehicles don't fare well when hit by a larger object. Having some kind of head protection airbag is a key.

 

Honda is definitely behind the curve here. Eventually the Pilot will have side curtains, though.

 

As far as children and side curtain airbags, there are two areas of thought:

 

- The side curtains deploy downward and along the side, with nowhere near the force of front airbags. There has been no demonstrated injury risk to occupants who may be out-of-position from side curtain airbags.

 

Volvo actually goes one step further -- when the side curtain inflates downward, it actually "slows down" at around the midpoint of the window. Still fast enough to inflate quickly enough to provide head protection, but with a little less force in the end.

 

- The effectiveness of side curtain airbags in protecting children is debatable. Most of the cushioning of those bags is aimed where an adult's head normally is. Some bags have little or no effective cushioning near the bottom. They look like they might, but the edge of the bag is often for structuring the bag. Thus, many smaller children won't be high enough to get protection.

 

This will vary dramatically based on the height of the child, and the type of car seat they sit in. As well as the vehicle's airbag design.

beercoll1

I bought a 4-runner(2003 v8 Sport) after test driving the Pilot. The reliability of a Toyota, the ride, and hauling/towing made it easy for me to decide on the 4-runner. If you are serious about looking at the 4-runner, you should check those cost figures. The SR5 and Sport models can be had for less than 35K in both the V6 and V8 version. It is the LTD version that gets real expensive.

jopopsy

When you can get an EX Pilot for 28k, an additional 7k is awfully hard to justify let alone consider a good value vs. the Pilot ....

qbrozen

interesting info on the airbags.

 

Hopefully I will never have to test them in any of my vehicles.

qbrozen

not pilot related, so i apologize to other readers in advance:

you might consider aftermarket rotors on the Impala. My Volvo has the same issue (as do many vehicles these days - usually higher-end manufacturers from what I've read), but after a couple of sets of OEM rotors, I went aftermarket and they are not wearing out nearly as fast as the OEM ones.

markjenn

The issue I'm noting is that it is virtually impossible to find the V8 in any new 4Runner other than a loaded Limited for $37K MSRP. And Toyota dealers do not like to order cars and are typically very unwilling to discount an ordered car.

 

- Mark