The center stack rattle in our Pilot ('03 ex) was fixed by the dealer. I was told they put more (new?) padding underneath the plastic piece. The rattle noise have been gone for almost a year now. However, recently another rattle noise has developed. I haven't figured out when and where (on what type of road) this noise would come, so I have yet to contact my dealer.
How is it the 05 CRV can have side curtain airbags standard across all trim levels and yet the 05 Pilot does not? Not to mention the $1250 price increase over the 04 Pilot. I guess it's the same way the 05 Acura TSX can have a power passenger seat/HID lights whereas the 04/05 MDX (base model) has neither of those features at 10k more dollars. So much for Honda's 'Safety for Everyone' campaign, guess they forgot about the Pilot. With no curtain airbags, I'll probably scratch the Pilot off my list unless Honda corrects this oversight.
My problem is I'm so far away from a dealer. I wonder how hard it would be to remove the dash myself? I find that if I press down on the dash at the base of the windshield (and there is plenty of play/give), all dash rattles stop. I might wedge something between the dash and windshield. Does Honda monitor this site? Thanks for your input.
I'm thinking about an 05 Pilot, but I admit I'm not a fan of the GREEN Lit dashboard. What is the ambient lighting that they are adding. Will this change the appearance of the dashboard?
I thought it would be this month...but a dealer that I wandered upon said something about November. Does anyone have any accurate information on this???
Man $1250 that is a big price jump, like 4%. Sounds like Honda is banking on their popularity, and that people will flat-out pay the prices.
I thought I read that on the EX models, the price increase includes a moonroof. But going forward you are new forced into a spending an extra grand (esp. for the EX models).
At 32-35k, it may force a lot of people to look else where, as they are hitting Luxo pricing and Honda does not discount much.
The 2005 will not include changes I would like to have seen: --First, curtain airbags should be available. Honda could make the Pilot safer by including them. --Second, the second and third rows should tumble forward like Toyota SUVs; the Pilot second row only slides forward and backward. Access to the third row Pilot seats is extremely difficult. I was incredulous when the Honda salesman suggested I try getting there through the door on the TRAFFIC side!!! The third row is a trap. If it is difficult to get into, it is also difficult to get out of. The Pilot at 188 inches long is a full 12 inches shorter than most minivans. It is the third row that takes the full brunt of this shortening. --Third, rear sonar sensors should be standard. To my mind, this is better and more economical than a rear camera connected to the NAV system. Internet sources indicate that the parts of rear sonar sensors cost only about $50 or less. --Fourth, the seat belt of middle seat on the second row should be attached the seat (like in Toyota SUVs) instead of on the roof in the Pilot. If you put a young child in this middle position in the Pilot and hook the belt so that the belt crosses the chest rather than at the neck, the belt does not retract after a child leans forward and leans back. This is dangerous. --Fifth, the second and third rows should be contoured to be more ergonomic. These rows have straight back benches that seemed okay for short drives but could prove tiring for long ones.
The Pilot is advertised as an 8-passenger car. Well, it has 8 seatbelts and 8 headrests. Whether you can fit 8 people comfortably really depends on the size of the people occupying the second and third rows. I put 3 children 8 and under in the second row and they looked tight together, with little elbow room.
Maybe, I'll wait for the 2006 models. Isn't a major redesign scheduled for that year?
just an FYI, if you didn't realize, the moonroof is included only on the EX-L model. The EX is still sans moonroof and the price shows it. The $1250 increase is only on that EX-L model (because of the moonroof, of course).
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
The Pilot also got stability assist, a 6 disc changer, in addition to the moonroof. Seems reasonable for $1250. That said, this driver could care less about a moonroof, and hates having to pay for it.
Beside the side curtain airbags (front side airbags only), I was hoping to see: (1) new tail light design with amber rear turn signals and integrated back-up lights; (2) foglights should be standard on EX and above. (3) new shifter location. Maybe change will be made on 2006 model.
I appreciate your comments on the seating issues with respect to the Pilot. Especially after our recent experience of buying an Acura TL. I mistakenly thought the seats looked much more supportive and comfortable than those in our 10 year old Maxima. As it turns out, they are not comfortable and my wife and kids are complaining. Unfortunately, the best seats in the sedans we were looking at are attached to a $57k BMW 545i.
I will re-check the Pilot seats out more carefully. My previous impression was that the Pilot was much roomier than the XC90 and Lexus GX470, both in width of the second row and ease of getting in and out of the third row. Maybe I was wrong, at least with respect to the latter item. The Toyota Sequoia would solve any size deficiencies, but at the expense of driving the Love Boat.
Yes, I'm familar with Honda/Acura packaging. And I used to like it, except when I got to the point where I just don't use a sunroof very much. Given a choice I would opt for the DVD setup instead of a sunroof.
It would have been nice if the price had not jumped so much.
i agree about the sunroof. i never use the one in my car (pilot is my wife's). BUT, I will always get one if its available strictly for resale. No, I know, it doesn't really add to the value that much, but it does make the car more appealing to more buyers come sale time.
anyway, i still think the Pilot is a good deal compared to what else is out there. of course, its all pretty subjective.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
that side curtain arbags weren't standardized for 2005. It's one thing not to offer the latest do-dads compared to the MDX. But not offering a basic safety feature and instead offering a sunroof is not the choice that I would have made.
The price increase of $1,250 equates to slightly less than 4% on the EXL-Nav. Not a bad deal given the new features. But I personally would have an easier time "dropping" to a Pilot if I thought they weren't skimping on safety. The Volvo XC90 V8 is now the vehicle I am interested in waiting on. Especially since it's after tax cost to me is LESS than the Pilot, while it's performance is on par with the BMW X5 4.4 and Porsche Cayenne S. The Pilot is the no brainer winner on low cost maintenance, but as best I can tell, the XC90 has worked most of the bugs out and the new V8 is made by Yamaha.
For me in the past Volvo always ended up being out of my price range, esp. after you start adding options.
You can get into a XC90 for less than a Pilot? How does it handle compared to the Pilot? I only see a 5-cyl. listed here at Edmunds, so when is a V8 coming out? Surely that will push the price into the upper 30's.
Interesting, I'm also looking at the new Yamaha provided V8 XC90, as well as the new 4Runner with the more powerful V8 (I actually do have some off-roading planned). You say the XC will cost less 'after tax'? I assume you mean the >6001 pound tax credit? How can you declare that, and still sleep at night?? It sounds like that law will get repealed this fall, last I heard in the news.
I was considering the Pilot as a lower cost, high value alternative, but the wife ruled it out due to uncomfortable seats. She tends to ride in the back with our little one. I didn't notice that, but she did after only being in it for a few minutes. I see other here have mentioned that too.
And what's the deal with the side airbags? I don't get how they can figure out how to do it on MDX and CR-V, but not on the Pilot.
The V8 XC90 will be in the $48k range. A 35% tax write off puts the after tax cost at around $32k, competitive with the Pilot, whcih does not qualify for the write off.
As far as handling goes, the XC90 is definitely a more European feeling, tighter handling and steering vehicle than the Pilot or MDX. It's not a Porsche Cayenne, but it's pretty darn good. The Pilot is "acceptable" in my opinion (as is the GX470), but not much more.
"How can you sleep at night" taking the section 179 deduction for an SUV weighing over 6,000 lbs?
I guess I can sleep pretty well for getting a deduction on a currently allowable business expense that amounts to about $16,000 in savings. Especially when the Democrat's esteemed VP candidate John Edwards can apparantly sleep well at night charging 35% contingent legal fees on ridiculously inflated health care liability lawsuits. You didn't think he made his $100+/- million on a Senator's salary, did you?
I agree that the deductability of SUV's for business use probably has a few abusers. But if you really want to lose some sleep at night yourself, ask your family doctor or specialist - one that might be tasked with saving the life of one of your kids someday - what he or she sees for the future of health care costs in this country, thanks to abusers dressed up as trial lawyers. Or politicians.
is it just that you can write off 35% or do you really get 35% back? HUGE difference. I'm just curious cause I never looked into it and have no clue. Actually getting 35% back is incredible. I might have to start a business JUST so i can do it myself.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Yeah, I was talking about the abuses. I'm aware of cases where people are blatantly abusing the deduction, for vehicles that are solely for personal use (like an SUV for their kid) unrelated to their business. Sorry I touched a nerve.
I'm with you on the ridiculous liability lawsuits. My wife got out of the health care field for just that reason.
"So much for Honda's 'Safety for Everyone' campaign, guess they forgot about the Pilot"
Honda's safety for everyone campaign states that by the end of 2006, all their vehicles will have side curtains, side airbags with occupant detection, anti-lock brakes, and vehicle stability assist.
True, but the fact Honda decided to update the CRV with curtains before the Pilot is inexcusable. Also, 2006 doesn't help me since I'll be buying withinin the next 6-9 months.
Going with Highlander. I'm sure Honda must have figured out that it's in their best interest not to add side curtain airbag to pilot though it definitely is not in the best interest of the pilot owners/consumers. I'd think that this has something to do with the new flexible manufacturing process where Pilot, Odyssey and MDX are built on the same assembly line. With the newly redesigned Odyssey, they can build and sell more of them while maintaining adequate sale of MDX and Pilot. Besides, Pilot with Side Curtain Airbag may intrude sale of MDX.
So we can see the slogan "safety for everyone" by Honda is, just a slogan. I don't think there is any tech difficulty to add curtain airbag on Pilot.
Honda's logic is simple, as long as it sells and makes a huge profit for them, why bother to add curtain airbags?
As customer, I have no complaint because Honda's existence is to make money not to make us safer. It is our own responsibility to make us safer. Certainly I will be one of those who stay away from Pilot, at least for now.
for what it's worth. i'm comfortable with the fact that honda made the pilot so that it has a lower propensity to roll in the first place when compared with the overpriced volvo, the highlander and other larger SUVs.
not sure why the curtains are a make or break proposition especially if you're considering an 05 that now has stability control.
Lower propensity to roll compared to the larger Volvo? You obviously havene't driven the XC90. It's noticably smaller inside and out than the Pilot and its handling stability seems to be in a different league than the Pilot/MDX to me. I know the Pilot scored well on the NHSTA, but in my test driving of both vehicles and pushing them a bit around a cloverleaf beltway on ramp, I had a lot more confidende in the Volvo.
That said, I don't completely disagree with you regarding the side curtains being a make or break issue. As a matter of principal, I would rather have seen Honda put side curtain airbags in the Pilot for 2005, rather than take out a full 2-page add in the Washingotn Post earlier this week bragging about all the safety features they will be introducing in coming years. Actions speak louder than words. However, given the choice, I'd take stability control (if it really is a good system) over side curtain airbags.
The problem I have is that stating a car has "stability control" is like stating that it has "an engine". Doesn't tell you much on how good the systme actually is and controlling the vehicle in an emergency situation. And, in the case of the Pilot/MDX, the Pilot without stability control achieved higher emergency lane change scores than the MDX with it. I saw one review (Road and Track, I think), which basically analyzed Honda/Acura's stability control system as very weak in technology and actual real world benefits, compared to Mercedes, BMW or, for that matter, Volvo's. Only a couple of domestic manufacturers were rated lower. Furthermore, there have been several posts in the MDX forum where owners compained that the system failed them in a real world experience.
Hello, I have a 04 Pilot EXL-RES. I am dropping off this morning to have it service. I was planning to get oil change, VTM fluid change and tire rotation as well as doing the tranny recall for the oil jet for 2nd gear. This is a brand new Honda dealer that just opened like last week. Should I trust that their mechanics know what they're doing? And how much can I expect to pay for the VTM fluid change? I also have some vibration noise seems to come from dash board near steering column. Need to have them look as well. Thanks.
People don't buy vehicles with curtain airbags just for the rollover protection. A curtain airbag's primary purpose is for head protection in a side-impact collision. Stability control has nothing to do with getting T-boned. The curtains are useful in a rollover only if the airbags stay inflated for a prolonged period (like the Volvo's). The Volvo SUV is one of the few SUV's that advertises this feature with it's curtain airbags. I think the new Ford Explorer also has this feature. I have two friends/family members who got T-boned and neither had side head airbags. If they did, it would've saved them a lot of pain/suffering. Thankfully it wasn't serious. After seeing that, I insist my next vehicle have curtain airbags. I also would like stability control as that has saved my tail in my Audi TT roadster more than once. But like habitat said, don't know if the stability control will be that effective in the pilot/MDX. Unfortunately, won't really know until you need it.
i've seen all kinds of prices on the VTM4 change on message boards, but, personally, ours charges us $50.
as far as trusting them because they are new: they have to be trained just like anyone else, so i would hope they know what they are doing (in any case, what you are asking for isn't exactly complex).
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
They are not all created equal. The more advanced systems seem to be on the European vehicles, and some Japanese-model vehicles seem to have older versions that are not as effective.
There is scant documentation available. One common observation is that on Toyota's VSC and on (some?) Honda/Acura VSA, the system cuts off under braking, whereas the Bosch/Continental-Teves systems in MB's, Audi's, VW's, BMW's, etc. can run stability control even while braking.
At some BMW driving events, there had been discussion about the relative ineffectiveness of the previous-generation Acura TL's stability control system. Consumer Reports also noted that the addition of VSA to the MDX didn't help its emergency handling much.
There was previous debate and speculation that the systems were not "full-range" in features, but without enough documentation.
Lo and behold, when the new TL was introduced, Acura revealed that the new model has a true four-wheel VSA system (meaning the old one did not). The 2005 MDX introduces an"enhanced" VSA (meaning the old one has a "lesser" VSA).
NHTSA has noted in some of its studies that the effectiveness of specific stability control implementations does seem to vary between vehicles. Unfortunately there's no standard disclosure about them from the manufacturers, so we're left to our own devices.
The question then is, does the 2005 Honda Pilot get the "old" VSA from the MDX, or the "new" VSA like the 2005 MDX?
Here is what Honda has to say about the MDX's enhanced VSA:
A Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA) system (which for 2005 has been enhanced with active yaw control) to integrate traction control, the VTM-4 system, Anti-lock braking, throttle control and stability control
I have trouble reading the above, because I thought that ALL stability control systems incorporate yaw sensors to go with feedback from other systems. Does that mean that the previous VSA didn't have a yaw sensor at all (which would be awful and hardly worth calling stability control), or does it just mean that Acura has enhanced the yaw sensor somehow?
i agree that it drove nicely but shouldn't it for an extra $12,000-$15,000? in considering both vehicles, my personal thought was that I'm on a budget,hauling kids and am expecting the attendant dirt, grim and spill. there was just too little added value to the volvo. (the MDX was a closer call)
that said, i really appreciate the education on stability control systems. i knew the bosch system used in bimmers and benzes was top-rate but had no idea that the toyota/honda systems were distinctively different. the better question may be whether a lower center of gravity is better than a top rate stabiity control system.
That government test is based upon a methodology that is a little suspect, in my opinion. It is based upon a "statis stability test" that doesn't take into account a cars dynamic handling characteristics. It is then modified by a "tip vs. no-tip" dynamic handling test. As a result, you get such results as a Crown Victoria and Chryser Sebring being rated higher (slightly) than a 3 series sedan. However, in any road test of these vehicles, the 3 series sedan is way ahead in handling characteristics. It is rated well above either in both lateral g's and slalom speed, suggesting that it can handle circumstances that would result in loss of control with the other two.
Personally, in driving the Honda Pilot, I think it is pretty good. Certainly compared to our Isuzu Trooper. But if you asked me what vehicle I'd rather be driving if I had to make an emergecy avoidance maneuver with, I'd take the XC90 in a heartbeat. Not that I'd drive either like a sports car, but it's the other guy you need to worry about. Obviously, safety factors are imporatant but not the only decision factor. If we made all of our purchase decisions based upon fear, or we would never leave our houses in any vehicle.
I agree with leoniv's comment that side curtain airbags have significant value in any side impact crash.
i understand your point in the emergency maneuver situation based on the "feel" of both vehicles. however, i'm not sure you can predict the actual result. volvo, no doubt, has more active safety systems than the pilot. but i think the pilot has a lower center of gravity which would result in a lower propensity to tip in the first place.
besides exposing 3rd row folks, what's the safety difference between curtain and side air bags?
Any reason Honda could not add the Variable Cylinder Management (VCM) in the Odyssey to the Pilot? Anything with the AWD system that might preclude this? It would seem a good way to get mileage numbers up.
You are correct about the system in the Audi's. My TT's stability control system (ESP is what they call it) does indeed work while braking. Found that out the hard way in the snow . The ESP light blinks on the dash while it's working.
I had no idea there was such a difference in stability control between car manufacturers. I would still like to have stability control in my next car. It's better than nothing, but according to the above comments, it may be right next to nothing .
So, Honda is STARTING to make good on this campaign by including ALL safety features in EVERY Odyssey and CRV (but not Accord - VSA only on certain models)
But why NOT the Pilot? Why is VSA only on the EX-L? Not even on the EX? Is this "FOR EVERYONE"?
And why the heck no side-curtain airbags? ....
YES - I know that Honda promised "Safety for everyone" by the "END OF 2006". But that's a long time and a lot of side impacts with a lot of heads bouncing against glass windows in the best of cases and pickup truck bumpers in the worst ...
My suspicion was that this was done to protect MDX sales and associated profits. The Pilot sells just fine without 'em, so why bother! ....
Just my opinion of course - but like many other posters, after a BAD T-bone accident, I will NEVER buy another vehicle without side curtains ...
hello there all. was debating on buying the 04 pilot ex and the 04 toyota 4runner with low options. does anyone have any light on the subject concerning quality, ride, comfort, handling? i have two children and live in wisconsin. winters can be tough but other than that, no real big issues. just want to spend my money wisely. reading all of the posts, i know you people know what your talkin' about. any comments would be appreciated. thanks,
Comments
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Leon
I thought I read that on the EX models, the price increase includes a moonroof. But going forward you are new forced into a spending an extra grand (esp. for the EX models).
At 32-35k, it may force a lot of people to look else where, as they are hitting Luxo pricing and Honda does not discount much.
--First, curtain airbags should be available. Honda could make the Pilot safer by including them.
--Second, the second and third rows should tumble forward like Toyota SUVs; the Pilot second row only slides forward and backward. Access to the third row Pilot seats is extremely difficult. I was incredulous when the Honda salesman suggested I try getting there through the door on the TRAFFIC side!!! The third row is a trap. If it is difficult to get into, it is also difficult to get out of. The Pilot at 188 inches long is a full 12 inches shorter than most minivans. It is the third row that takes the full brunt of this shortening.
--Third, rear sonar sensors should be standard. To my mind, this is better and more economical than a rear camera connected to the NAV system. Internet sources indicate that the parts of rear sonar sensors cost only about $50 or less.
--Fourth, the seat belt of middle seat on the second row should be attached the seat (like in Toyota SUVs) instead of on the roof in the Pilot. If you put a young child in this middle position in the Pilot and hook the belt so that the belt crosses the chest rather than at the neck, the belt does not retract after a child leans forward and leans back. This is dangerous.
--Fifth, the second and third rows should be contoured to be more ergonomic. These rows have straight back benches that seemed okay for short drives but could prove tiring for long ones.
The Pilot is advertised as an 8-passenger car. Well, it has 8 seatbelts and 8 headrests. Whether you can fit 8 people comfortably really depends on the size of the people occupying the second and third rows. I put 3 children 8 and under in the second row and they looked tight together, with little elbow room.
Maybe, I'll wait for the 2006 models. Isn't a major redesign scheduled for that year?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Hopefully it won't kill the head-room.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I will re-check the Pilot seats out more carefully. My previous impression was that the Pilot was much roomier than the XC90 and Lexus GX470, both in width of the second row and ease of getting in and out of the third row. Maybe I was wrong, at least with respect to the latter item. The Toyota Sequoia would solve any size deficiencies, but at the expense of driving the Love Boat.
It would have been nice if the price had not jumped so much.
anyway, i still think the Pilot is a good deal compared to what else is out there. of course, its all pretty subjective.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
The price increase of $1,250 equates to slightly less than 4% on the EXL-Nav. Not a bad deal given the new features. But I personally would have an easier time "dropping" to a Pilot if I thought they weren't skimping on safety. The Volvo XC90 V8 is now the vehicle I am interested in waiting on. Especially since it's after tax cost to me is LESS than the Pilot, while it's performance is on par with the BMW X5 4.4 and Porsche Cayenne S. The Pilot is the no brainer winner on low cost maintenance, but as best I can tell, the XC90 has worked most of the bugs out and the new V8 is made by Yamaha.
You can get into a XC90 for less than a Pilot? How does it handle compared to the Pilot? I only see a 5-cyl. listed here at Edmunds, so when is a V8 coming out? Surely that will push the price into the upper 30's.
I'm always looking for the best tool for the job.
I was considering the Pilot as a lower cost, high value alternative, but the wife ruled it out due to uncomfortable seats. She tends to ride in the back with our little one. I didn't notice that, but she did after only being in it for a few minutes. I see other here have mentioned that too.
And what's the deal with the side airbags? I don't get how they can figure out how to do it on MDX and CR-V, but not on the Pilot.
I think Honda has a lot of people scratching their heads on that one. Having side airbags would some, one more reason to consider a Pilot.
As far as handling goes, the XC90 is definitely a more European feeling, tighter handling and steering vehicle than the Pilot or MDX. It's not a Porsche Cayenne, but it's pretty darn good. The Pilot is "acceptable" in my opinion
(as is the GX470), but not much more.
"How can you sleep at night" taking the section 179 deduction for an SUV weighing over 6,000 lbs?
I guess I can sleep pretty well for getting a deduction on a currently allowable business expense that amounts to about $16,000 in savings. Especially when the Democrat's esteemed VP candidate John Edwards can apparantly sleep well at night charging 35% contingent legal fees on ridiculously inflated health care liability lawsuits. You didn't think he made his $100+/- million on a Senator's salary, did you?
I agree that the deductability of SUV's for business use probably has a few abusers. But if you really want to lose some sleep at night yourself, ask your family doctor or specialist - one that might be tasked with saving the life of one of your kids someday - what he or she sees for the future of health care costs in this country, thanks to abusers dressed up as trial lawyers. Or politicians.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I'm with you on the ridiculous liability lawsuits. My wife got out of the health care field for just that reason.
Sorry for the detour, back to Pilot talk.
Honda's safety for everyone campaign states that by the end of 2006, all their vehicles will have side curtains, side airbags with occupant detection, anti-lock brakes, and vehicle stability assist.
Honda's logic is simple, as long as it sells and makes a huge profit for them, why bother to add curtain airbags?
As customer, I have no complaint because Honda's existence is to make money not to make us safer. It is our own responsibility to make us safer. Certainly I will be one of those who stay away from Pilot, at least for now.
not sure why the curtains are a make or break proposition especially if you're considering an 05 that now has stability control.
That said, I don't completely disagree with you regarding the side curtains being a make or break issue. As a matter of principal, I would rather have seen Honda put side curtain airbags in the Pilot for 2005, rather than take out a full 2-page add in the Washingotn Post earlier this week bragging about all the safety features they will be introducing in coming years. Actions speak louder than words. However, given the choice, I'd take stability control (if it really is a good system) over side curtain airbags.
The problem I have is that stating a car has "stability control" is like stating that it has "an engine". Doesn't tell you much on how good the systme actually is and controlling the vehicle in an emergency situation. And, in the case of the Pilot/MDX, the Pilot without stability control achieved higher emergency lane change scores than the MDX with it. I saw one review (Road and Track, I think), which basically analyzed Honda/Acura's stability control system as very weak in technology and actual real world benefits, compared to Mercedes, BMW or, for that matter, Volvo's. Only a couple of domestic manufacturers were rated lower. Furthermore, there have been several posts in the MDX forum where owners compained that the system failed them in a real world experience.
as far as trusting them because they are new: they have to be trained just like anyone else, so i would hope they know what they are doing (in any case, what you are asking for isn't exactly complex).
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
They are not all created equal. The more advanced systems seem to be on the European vehicles, and some Japanese-model vehicles seem to have older versions that are not as effective.
There is scant documentation available. One common observation is that on Toyota's VSC and on (some?) Honda/Acura VSA, the system cuts off under braking, whereas the Bosch/Continental-Teves systems in MB's, Audi's, VW's, BMW's, etc. can run stability control even while braking.
At some BMW driving events, there had been discussion about the relative ineffectiveness of the previous-generation Acura TL's stability control system. Consumer Reports also noted that the addition of VSA to the MDX didn't help its emergency handling much.
There was previous debate and speculation that the systems were not "full-range" in features, but without enough documentation.
Lo and behold, when the new TL was introduced, Acura revealed that the new model has a true four-wheel VSA system (meaning the old one did not). The 2005 MDX introduces an"enhanced" VSA (meaning the old one has a "lesser" VSA).
NHTSA has noted in some of its studies that the effectiveness of specific stability control implementations does seem to vary between vehicles. Unfortunately there's no standard disclosure about them from the manufacturers, so we're left to our own devices.
The question then is, does the 2005 Honda Pilot get the "old" VSA from the MDX, or the "new" VSA like the 2005 MDX?
Here is what Honda has to say about the MDX's enhanced VSA:
A Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA) system (which for 2005 has been enhanced with active yaw control) to integrate traction control, the VTM-4 system, Anti-lock braking, throttle control and stability control
I have trouble reading the above, because I thought that ALL stability control systems incorporate yaw sensors to go with feedback from other systems. Does that mean that the previous VSA didn't have a yaw sensor at all (which would be awful and hardly worth calling stability control), or does it just mean that Acura has enhanced the yaw sensor somehow?
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/ncap/RollRatings.cfm
i agree that it drove nicely but shouldn't it for an extra $12,000-$15,000? in considering both vehicles, my personal thought was that I'm on a budget,hauling kids and am expecting the attendant dirt, grim and spill. there was just too little added value to the volvo. (the MDX was a closer call)
that said, i really appreciate the education on stability control systems. i knew the bosch system used in bimmers and benzes was top-rate but had no idea that the toyota/honda systems were distinctively different. the better question may be whether a lower center of gravity is better than a top rate stabiity control system.
Personally, in driving the Honda Pilot, I think it is pretty good. Certainly compared to our Isuzu Trooper. But if you asked me what vehicle I'd rather be driving if I had to make an emergecy avoidance maneuver with, I'd take the XC90 in a heartbeat. Not that I'd drive either like a sports car, but it's the other guy you need to worry about. Obviously, safety factors are imporatant but not the only decision factor. If we made all of our purchase decisions based upon fear, or we would never leave our houses in any vehicle.
I agree with leoniv's comment that side curtain airbags have significant value in any side impact crash.
its just that the rest of the door is attached to it.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
besides exposing 3rd row folks, what's the safety difference between curtain and side air bags?
I had no idea there was such a difference in stability control between car manufacturers. I would still like to have stability control in my next car. It's better than nothing, but according to the above comments, it may be right next to nothing
But why NOT the Pilot? Why is VSA only on the EX-L? Not even on the EX? Is this "FOR EVERYONE"?
And why the heck no side-curtain airbags? ....
YES - I know that Honda promised "Safety for everyone" by the "END OF 2006". But that's a long time and a lot of side impacts with a lot of heads bouncing against glass windows in the best of cases and pickup truck bumpers in the worst ...
My suspicion was that this was done to protect MDX sales and associated profits. The Pilot sells just fine without 'em, so why bother! ....
Just my opinion of course - but like many other posters, after a BAD T-bone accident, I will NEVER buy another vehicle without side curtains ...
(and I REALLY wanted that Pilot .......)