I have been faithfully lurking this board since I found out about the Pilot in early Jan 02. I have am the first one on my local dealers list. I had to pay the $500dwn and was promised a MSRP price. I'm soooo excited! If anyone in the southeast Georgia or northeast Flordia regions needs a lead on a great dealership I'd be glad to recommend mine to you. They are great in service too. I bought my Honda Odessey from them. I can't tell you how excited as a mom to triplets that will turn 2 in June and a 9o too how happy I am to not be a minivan momma anymore.LOL Thanks for all the valuable information you all post.
OK, folks, let's not kid ourselves here. The Honda Pilot really is nothing more than an AWD minivan with some more rugged styling cues to try to make it look less like a minivan. Don't get me wrong, I own an Odyssey and I think the Pilot is great (EXCEPT for towing capacity), but I find it very odd that many people who would otherwise drive/buy a minivan are looking at the Pilot. It kind of makes my point... If the Pilot towed more like 5,000 lbs (which will never happen) for a travel trailer it would be my perfect all-around vehicle. Otherwise I see no earthly reason to buy one over an Odyssey for example, beyond the AWD (and I go skiing about once a year, so whats the point?). Unfortunately, I think alot of drivers of the Pilot will be seen as minivan drivers who let their image-consciousness get the better of them. I mean, when you see somebody driving an RX300 or a Highlander do you immediately think 'There goes a rugged, outdoorsy type.'?!
I agree with you that the Pilot is pretty much an AWD minivan (or a tall wagon/crossover for that matter). However, I fail to see your point regarding why people should buy a minivan instead of the Pilot because of a social perception. Ford and GMC have made their living for a very long time selling the very same vehicles under different nameplates because of the social position that they were supposed to represent. You even find it among foreign vehicles including the Honda Pilot/Acura MDX combo. Granted you are making the comparison between two different types of vehicles but I think that you could also see cross shopping between a Volvo XC or an Audi Allroad and the Pilot, or even an AWD minivan for that matter.
Minivans aren't the only vehicle with a stigma attached to them. People have stigmas against wagons also and you see car manufacturers avoiding that word because it's the kiss of death from a marketing point of view. So if people want to drive a SUV because it raises their testosterone levels or makes them feel safe, more power to them. You should be glad that the SUV that they are looking at gets decent gas mileage and is environmentally friendly.
BTW, Porsche didn't make the 959 (and others)AWD so that it could go snow drift busting or skiing at Tahoe. It's AWD because it also helps in wet conditions or hard accelerations around corners (which I don't think is really relevant WRT cornering in the Pilot)
Porknbeans
Grand High Poobah The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
I visited one dealer in Buffalo to get on the Pilot list. We looked at the Odyssey while we were there and were told they sell them at MSRP and had buyers from outside the state 'cause they didn't ask for a premium. When I asked about getting on the Pilot list he first said I'd be the first one on the list. After he talked to the "owner" he said I would be second and he would not commit to MSRP. This was after bragging about not charging MSRP on the Ody! I guess what he meant was "we don't charge a premium 'cause we can't get it"! We said forget it and walked out.
We then went to another dealer and were told we were first on the list. I asked about a deposit and they said it wasn't necessary. I think they're on the up and up but I'm a little leary since I have nothing in writing. I'm pretty sure they'll come through.
The moral is check with all the dealers in your area. You might be able to find one that doesn't play games.
I can give you 2 good reasons to pick the Pilot over the Odyssey. One is AWD (to improve poor weather performance and to provide some offroad capability) and the other is seating for eight. I have a family of 5 and with the rear seat folded away in the Ody it becomes a 4 passenger vehicle. You can fold the rear seat away in the Pilot and still seat 5 passengers. That is a big deal for me.
Fair point, big guy. I too have a family of five and I can see the value in having three-across seating in the second row. My point was mainly directed towards those who look at a Pilot as a real SUV or 'anti-minivan'. I would also agree that AWD does provide some extra traction, particularly for those in the North East who encounter poor weather often (I'm in CA). You do pay a small penalty in fuel consumption and braking distance (with the extra weight) as a result, but the Pilot (and other car-based SUVs) perform better in those areas than the truck-based SUVs, generally speaking.
Won't be able to transport my lawn tractor in the Pilot.
EPA mileage numbers are likely to be same for Pilot as 02 Ody (same motor). This is likely true for acceleration times as well, though I wouldn't be surprised if the 02 Ody is faster to 1/4 mile as it's probably more aerodynamic, and won't have a 5spd auto geared/biased for a little off-roading.
And the bottom line reason for getting a Pilot is AWD at a price I paid for my AWD van in 95.
Honda claims the Pilot is both the most spacious and lightest-weight vehicle in its class (Tom Elliott of Honda at its unveiling in Detroit). The Toyota Highlander weighs just 3880. The question is whether or not the Highlander is in its class.
Has Honda ever said if it strengthened the Odyssey's structure for crashes?
Acura advertised that the MDX has more structural improvements to the Odyssey platform that it's based on and it seems to have paid off. The Odyssey does well in the IIHS offset frontal crash test, with a Good score, but it does not earn a "Best Pick" status (like the Sienna has):
My sense (and I may well be wrong, wouldn't be the first time) is that few customers value the extra people-hauling ability of a front bench seat over the comfort of two captains chairs in the front, along with a center console. I think 3 across in the front would be quite a squeeze and I'm not sure it's a good idea to have a passenger sitting right next to the driver like that. If people want 9-passenger seating they would have to look at a full-size passenger van or one of the biggest SUVs (Tahoe/Excursion).
Unless they can manage to install an airbag for the middle occupant of the front bench (while still having room for the stereo, temp), I wouldn't want a 3-across front bench.
I think people are saying they found dealers that would honor MSRP pricing. I don't believe the pricing is out yet. There has been a pretty wide spread of speculation of what the range might be. I've seen anywhere from $26K to $36K on this board.
Yes, guy44 is correct. The MSRP everyone is referring to is not a hard number. The actual MSRP's have yet to be made public. The range he refers to includes everyone's guesses (lowest to highest). The general concensus is between $26K and $32K depending on the trim.
rms41: Interesting point -"Lightest vehicle in its class" Made me think about its competitors, that is, what other vehicles are competing for customer dollars.
If you look at pricing, then Highlander is in Pilot class, along with a bunch of other foreign and domestic suvs from the Explorer through Highlander to Tahoes. But when you filter this with the weight, passenger capacity (7 min), and some form of awd, the field narrows.
The closest competitor is likely the new Explorer (with the third row seat option), and this excludes the 5-seat Highlander, and RX-300. I pulled up a list through the Edmunds comparo page. For the selected MDX (used in place of Pilot), Explorer, Expedition, Durango, Tahoe, TrailBlazer (optional third row?), M-320, and Sequioa, the MDX is lightest.
To also be the most capacious, the Sequoia, and Expedition would be dropped from the list, yielding:
Interesting that the Pilot competes with the Tahoe (we're not talking towing here). Also, Explorer is surprisingly efficient 4344lbs weight, and Pilot will have to be less to satisfy claim.
I would think, after looking at all the colors that now exist within the Honda family, it would be Granite Green, which comes off as a charcoal gray. Can't imagine it is a new color altogether.
I think it will be close to Odyssey and MDX, which is less than Explorer/Tahoe/Durango/Pathfinder, but not less than Highlander. With all equipment, including AWD, Highlander may be close to 4000-4100 lb.
I think Honda is playing the "class" game. They may not consider the Highlander a direct compeitor because it does not have a third row of seats. I've seen publications where they've specified "SUVs with seating for eight", so even the 7-seater Explorer is technically out. It's all marketing garbage.
Chrysler is advertising its 300M Special as the most powerful (255 HP) sedan in its class. Infiniti advertises I35 (255 HP) as the most powerful sedan in its class. Acura thinks its 3.2TL-S (260 HP) is the most powerful sedan in its class. What is class? I remember reading at Nissan's website that Maxima (or was it I35?) is in the same class as Avalon and IS300.
I think the MDX has an even wider trackwidth than a full-size Tahoe. So if the Pilot is going to be wider than the MDX, it's going to be extremely wide. I think it's going to be like the Dodge Durango when it first came out. It was the only SUV in its class that had optional 3rd row seating, it was larger than the Explorer and Blazer of that generation, but it was smaller than the Expedition and Tahoe.
Granite Green is GB Etrenal Blue is a sapphire blue metal flake GY should be a new color...could very well be Gray. One of my favorite colors is the Battleship Gray that the Audi TT comes in.
When I find out about GY, I'll post it. Also any other info from the factory
The salesman at the dealership near Ann Arbor told me weight is 3500 pounds. That seems too light to me. Arrival in June but of course that could change.
Anyone watching or attended the Honda Classic. They have a Pilot showcased at the tournament, floating on water. I guess the winner of the tourney will get to keep one. I am assuming the car is already in production and is available but has not made delivery to the dealers.
For some reason(s), I believe the Pilot will also be also weigh 4300 lbs.
The Ody EX weighs about 4300 lbs (119in wb, 201in long), the MDX weighs about 4300 lbs (107in wb, 187in long, std awd). So while the lengths, volume, and drivetrain vary, the vehicles are very close in weight. Likely due to the added weight of the awd.
I like to think (actually, I'm counting on it) Honda has found a sweet spot at 4300 lbs, and are not decontenting the sound insulation from the MDX for the Pilot version. We already know the MDX is not the quietest in class. No need to emphasize that trait in Honda version.
On the other hand, if it does weigh only 4000lbs, it will be a hot rod among its class of SUVs with 240hp, and quicker than current model MDX.
If a model can be given as a prize,then they are building inventory, they want each dealer to have one as a demo to drive, and satisfy orders. Anyone with insight as to when Orders will be taken?
What do you think the most poular colors will be. My wife thinks the redrock pearl isn't red and bright enough, everyone has silver , so she is thinking sand beige.
Rear camera--will it be only with nav system, otherwise where to put the screen, if dealer installed accessory then maybe they can put it on other models, i wonder about the restrictions, how about backup sensor, with others it's put on by the manufacturer. So it must be ordered from the factory rather than dealer puton. Maybe those that have connections with a dealer can get more info for us.
Nissan has a new SUV coming out this fall. I'm sure it will look alot better then pilot. Which looks 10 years old before it even hits the streets. But Hondas advantage will probably be the 7 passenger seating. I'm not sure if Murano will have this as an option but with the Quest gone it just might.
May look 10 years old before it hits the street, but it's going to age well just like any Honda (escept for maybe the Odyssey and Insight). The Murano, if it still looks the way it does in those pictures when it comes out, will look extremely passe in a few years. I doubt it will age well at all.
I agree that the Pilot won't win any awards for it's exterior. I was a bit disappointed in the styling but still will probably purchase one if the rest of the vehicle lives up to it's billing. I'm hoping they do something to spice it up a bit from prototype they've been showing at the auto shows.
Well, spent yesterday afternoon checking out the new car models... Real lackluster show this year.
Anyway, there was NO Pilot at this show. Something about "Being at another show this week". Only one pre-production model on tour? Whatever... My interest in the Pilot has started to wane - I can meet my vehicle requirements (7 passengers and their "stuff" - safety - decent mileage) with the Ody and still save a few bucks. The harsh reality of WHAT the car is for has finally set in: getting around town and taking an occasional trip.
Enjoy! Wholigan
2003 Honda Odyssey EX-LRES - Midnight Blue Pearl 2004 Honda Accord EX-L Graphite Pearl 2007 Honda Civic EX - Atomic Blue 2013 Honda Civic LX - Crimson Pearl
Just had to do the thousandth message! Isn't it time for a new topic.....Pilot II?
Wholigan: If you don't need all wheel drive, Ody is very good. Check out the April 02 Consumers Report. The Ody received extremely high ratings in the new CU combined safety (IIHS & NHTSA crash test ratings), and accident avoidance charts. Possibly the highest given by the mag (bar charts without numerical ratings are hard to quantify).
I too was disappointed that there wasn't a Pilot at the Auto Show. I saw it at Chicago and was impressed. Its better looking in person than in photos, although the high-profile tires got to go.
I think the only one that they are showing was at the golf tounanment this weekend. Its basically the production car with a extra expensive metalic paint job. Its also the same one pictured in all the press photos.
What surprises me is that none of the car magazines have gotten one for a test. Even the MDX had some early press drives befor going on sale. Maybe the May magazines will have stories.
Comments
If the Pilot towed more like 5,000 lbs (which will never happen) for a travel trailer it would be my perfect all-around vehicle. Otherwise I see no earthly reason to buy one over an Odyssey for example, beyond the AWD (and I go skiing about once a year, so whats the point?).
Unfortunately, I think alot of drivers of the Pilot will be seen as minivan drivers who let their image-consciousness get the better of them. I mean, when you see somebody driving an RX300 or a Highlander do you immediately think 'There goes a rugged, outdoorsy type.'?!
Minivans aren't the only vehicle with a stigma attached to them. People have stigmas against wagons also and you see car manufacturers avoiding that word because it's the kiss of death from a marketing point of view. So if people want to drive a SUV because it raises their testosterone levels or makes them feel safe, more power to them. You should be glad that the SUV that they are looking at gets decent gas mileage and is environmentally friendly.
BTW, Porsche didn't make the 959 (and others)AWD so that it could go snow drift busting or skiing at Tahoe. It's AWD because it also helps in wet conditions or hard accelerations around corners (which I don't think is really relevant WRT cornering in the Pilot)
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
We then went to another dealer and were told we were first on the list. I asked about a deposit and they said it wasn't necessary. I think they're on the up and up but I'm a little leary since I have nothing in writing. I'm pretty sure they'll come through.
The moral is check with all the dealers in your area. You might be able to find one that doesn't play games.
Just my $.02
I would also agree that AWD does provide some extra traction, particularly for those in the North East who encounter poor weather often (I'm in CA). You do pay a small penalty in fuel consumption and braking distance (with the extra weight) as a result, but the Pilot (and other car-based SUVs) perform better in those areas than the truck-based SUVs, generally speaking.
MDX 4374lbs vs Ody EX 4354lbs
Cargo capacity is the big disadvantage of MDX and likely Pilot. The Ody has 147cf of cargo space vs reported 82 for MDX, and 90 for Pilot. (http://www.hondacars.com/models/odyssey/features.html)
Won't be able to transport my lawn tractor in the Pilot.
EPA mileage numbers are likely to be same for Pilot as 02 Ody (same motor). This is likely true for acceleration times as well, though I wouldn't be surprised if the 02 Ody is faster to 1/4 mile as it's probably more aerodynamic, and won't have a 5spd auto geared/biased for a little off-roading.
And the bottom line reason for getting a Pilot is AWD at a price I paid for my AWD van in 95.
Acura advertised that the MDX has more structural improvements to the Odyssey platform that it's based on and it seems to have paid off. The Odyssey does well in the IIHS offset frontal crash test, with a Good score, but it does not earn a "Best Pick" status (like the Sienna has):
http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/98024.htm
Meanwhile, the MDX is the second-highest ranked mid-sized SUV the Institute has tested so far, with an overall score of Good, and "Best Pick" status.
http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0113.htm
Their crash results are comparable because the tested vehicles were relatively close in weight.
If the Pilot has a full version of the MDX structure, it should get similarly stellar offset frontal crash test results.
Our 78 Monaco wagon could....
Wait, this isn't 1979 any more. OK, so no kids or dogs.
I find the old bench seats give a little more room to move around your behind on long trips.
I think people are saying they found dealers that would honor MSRP pricing. I don't believe the pricing is out yet. There has been a pretty wide spread of speculation of what the range might be. I've seen anywhere from $26K to $36K on this board.
Interesting point -"Lightest vehicle in its class" Made me think about its competitors, that is, what other vehicles are competing for customer dollars.
If you look at pricing, then Highlander is in Pilot class, along with a bunch of other foreign and domestic suvs from the Explorer through Highlander to Tahoes. But when you filter this with the weight, passenger capacity (7 min), and some form of awd, the field narrows.
The closest competitor is likely the new Explorer (with the third row seat option), and this excludes the 5-seat Highlander, and RX-300. I pulled up a list through the Edmunds comparo page. For the selected MDX (used in place of Pilot), Explorer, Expedition, Durango, Tahoe, TrailBlazer (optional third row?), M-320, and Sequioa, the MDX is lightest.
To also be the most capacious, the Sequoia, and Expedition would be dropped from the list, yielding:
http://applications.edmunds.com/products/vc/VehicleComparison
(Looks like you have to construct the comparisons yourself.)
Interesting that the Pilot competes with the Tahoe (we're not talking towing here). Also, Explorer is surprisingly efficient 4344lbs weight, and Pilot will have to be less to satisfy claim.
Hard to believe, but the Highlander weight is:
3880 for the AWD, and 3660 for the front wheel drive.
Infiniti advertises I35 (255 HP) as the most powerful sedan in its class.
Acura thinks its 3.2TL-S (260 HP) is the most powerful sedan in its class.
What is class? I remember reading at Nissan's website that Maxima (or was it I35?) is in the same class as Avalon and IS300.
Former Bulls fan (the good old days of M.J., Scottie, and Rodman)
Etrenal Blue is a sapphire blue metal flake
GY should be a new color...could very well be Gray. One of my favorite colors is the Battleship Gray that the Audi TT comes in.
When I find out about GY, I'll post it. Also any other info from the factory
Jerry
The Ody EX weighs about 4300 lbs (119in wb, 201in long), the MDX weighs about 4300 lbs (107in wb, 187in long, std awd). So while the lengths, volume, and drivetrain vary, the vehicles are very close in weight. Likely due to the added weight of the awd.
I like to think (actually, I'm counting on it) Honda has found a sweet spot at 4300 lbs, and are not decontenting the sound insulation from the MDX for the Pilot version. We already know the MDX is not the quietest in class. No need to emphasize that trait in Honda version.
On the other hand, if it does weigh only 4000lbs, it will be a hot rod among its class of SUVs with 240hp, and quicker than current model MDX.
What do you think the most poular colors will be. My wife thinks the redrock pearl isn't red and bright enough, everyone has silver , so she is thinking sand beige.
Rear camera--will it be only with nav system, otherwise where to put the screen, if dealer installed accessory then maybe they can put it on other models, i wonder about the restrictions, how about backup sensor, with others it's put on by the manufacturer. So it must be ordered from the factory rather than dealer puton. Maybe those that have connections with a dealer can get more info for us.
Anyway, there was NO Pilot at this show. Something about "Being at another show this week". Only one pre-production model on tour? Whatever... My interest in the Pilot has started to wane - I can meet my vehicle requirements (7 passengers and their "stuff" - safety - decent mileage) with the Ody and still save a few bucks. The harsh reality of WHAT the car is for has finally set in: getting around town and taking an occasional trip.
Enjoy!
Wholigan
2004 Honda Accord EX-L Graphite Pearl
2007 Honda Civic EX - Atomic Blue
2013 Honda Civic LX - Crimson Pearl
Isn't it time for a new topic.....Pilot II?
Wholigan:
If you don't need all wheel drive, Ody is very good. Check out the April 02 Consumers Report. The Ody received extremely high ratings in the new CU combined safety (IIHS & NHTSA crash test ratings), and accident avoidance charts. Possibly the highest given by the mag (bar charts without numerical ratings are hard to quantify).
I think the only one that they are showing was at the golf tounanment this weekend. Its basically the production car with a extra expensive metalic paint job. Its also the same one pictured in all the press photos.
What surprises me is that none of the car magazines have gotten one for a test. Even the MDX had some early press drives befor going on sale. Maybe the May magazines will have stories.
P.S. :-)