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Comments
The "ugly" part is my personal opinion - if you like it, power to you!
No fair re the TL: they have leather so are easier cleanup.
Steve
Rear Headroom: 39 in./38.9 in.
Rear Shoulder Room: 61.1 in./58.9 in.
Rear Hip Room: 56.3 in./54.3 in.
Rear Leg Room: 37.8 in./37.2 in.
Apparently, the second row in MDX has more room than Explorer.
Since most people that have seen the pilots 3rd row say its about the same size as the mdxs, it looks like pilots 3rd row is only for kids like the mdx?
thanks for the color update
Post #846- the color was more of a fire-red..a hint of orange. My personal opinion is the color would not sell as well if it was in production...
Furthermore, that will keep me entertained until we get more data from Honda.
http://www.velocityjrnl.com/jrnl/2002/v2kmdl3037ovw.html
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
By they, way it is a pretty good site.
I also live in the Chicago area. Most Honda dealers are asking MSRP (or more) for the '02 CR-V, but that's not what I paid.
Quick story, after a few days of calls and emails to dealers I finally visited one near my home. I felt a little goofy at that point so when I sat down with the salesperson I said why don't you guess what vehicle I would like. He said an Odyssey, I said do I look like an Odyssey person (not that there is an Ody "person" but like I said I was feeling goofy)? Then he said, the Pilot and I said your getting closer. He says CR-V and I say bingo. He says MSRP and I say goodbye.
Was it a coincidence that the three vehicles he thought I wanted to buy are the ones that he wants to sell at MSRP (or more)?
Weren't there quite a few Honda dealerships that charged premiums above MSRP for the Odyssey?
I know that as of a few months ago (not sure if this has changed), there weren't any Acura dealerships in the Pacific Northwest that were consistently selling for MSRP. They were all asking for premiums on new models. Oh, once in a while one would "luck out" and find a cancelled last-year's-model selling at MSRP, but by and large, it's been over MSRP.
What might help is that there are more Honda dealerships than Acura dealership. So maybe there'll be a bit more competition. However, if the Pilot ends up getting backordered, look out, 'cuz greed will set in really quickly.
Charging above MSRP manifests itself in numerous ways:
1) Flatly asking for above MSRP.
2) Requiring mandatory accessories at a relatively inflated price, such that the cost of the vehicle is above MSRP plus the more legitimate price of those accessories and their installation.
3) A combination of the two items above.
4) Similar to the above, this time throwing in various required non-OEM items like rustproofing, undercoating, etc.
The worse are the slimey dealers that will sell an MDX out from under an MSRP buyer. It has definitely happened to some would-be MDX buyers. This is how that one works:
Someone gets on a waiting list for an MDX at MSRP. The list is simply a dealer list and not an actual factory order because all available factor orders for the next cycle are full. You're on a waiting list not for the factory, but for the dealership. Thus you get no VIN# or any evidence of a factory order.
So you're told "three month wait." During those three months, however, the dealership finds someone willing to pay above MSRP, and "bumps you" in their internal waiting list. When the factory order slots become available, the order is placed with that other person in mind. Or, for no specific person, just figuring that they'll find someone at the last minute to buy it, and the fallback is the person originally on the waiting list.
You call the dealership after three months and ask what's happening. They spit out the excuses of pent up demand, low supply, or try to get really creative with "there was a manufacturing slowdown" or "the factory was closed on a two week break." Meanwhile the MDX that might have gone to you goes to someone paying $2,000 above MSRP.
Sometimes that MSRP+$2,000 person cancels at the last minute, and the dealership calls you and says, "hey, I've got your MDX here!" You're stunned because you thought you would have heard from the dealership when the factory order was placed, but you're so darn happy to have waited only three months, you run in and grab it!
Anyway, there are obviously ethical dealerships out there and hopefully they're more the norm. But there are a lot of slimey ones out there too. One definite problem is that Honda/Acura is unwilling to enforce better controls on their dealerships. E.g. some manufacturers are able to prevent their dealerships from charging above MSRP. That's not to say that even in those cases there isn't some sliminess, but it is definitely reduced.
Honda/Acura lets their dealerships charge what they want for the vehicles, and, through the dealer-installed accessory program, lets them gouge even further. Stuff like the cargo cover and even the body side molding on the MDX are dealer-installed accessories that we've heard way too much gouging on. The intelligent consumer goes to a discounter like www.hondacuraworld.com.
Yes, and they still are!
supply and demand at its finest!
I believe based on the identical 3rd row seat mechanism of the MDX and the Pilot the passenger room will be closer to the MDX and not the Odyssey. The Odyssey does have a very nice elevated bottom cushion. The bottom cushion of the MDX is closer to the floor making you knees much higher. The specifications for 3rd row leg room is 29.3 inches for the MDX and 38.1 inches for the Odyssey. A big difference. Just have a seat in an MDX and see how tight it is likely to be.
Cheers
I know that sales number does not make a great minivan, but considering the fact that Honda dealers are still charging MSRP for the Odyssey, while Ford was offering 0% financing or $2000 rebates, it tells you something. I think the only reason why the Caravan is #1 is because it's readily available, it's quite good looking, and the special incentives.
http://www.autosite.com/editoria/asmr/svolva.asp
Honda dealers seem to be getting fat and spoiled. It's somewhat distressing to see Honda putting out such excellent products, and the dealers (who add no value) gouging for thousands over MSRP raking in the lion's share of the profits.
Actually, I did the cold rainy and snowy day at Acura, and they still wouldn't budge.
True. But Honda could prevent the dealers from charging above MSRP if they really wanted to. Oh, I'm sure the dealership agreements that Honda currently has in place doesn't give Honda that power, but Honda can work on changing them.
Take Mercedes-Benz. They impose penalties on dealerships that try to charge above MSRP. Now, it doesn't work perfectly because some MB dealerships have played some tricks, but it has substantially reduced price-gouging. Granted that they're a luxury brand, but if a manufacturer has the will, they can have the way.
Funny, I seemed to get a good deal on a hot vehicle in the middle of the month. Am I that good? I doubt it.
Cheers
For those that live in communities with only one dealer, take a road-trip to a major metropolitan area and pay MSRP. You're nuts if you pay a penny more.
Besides, I fully believe that a Honda/Acura at MSRP is still a better deal than any Ford/Chrysler/GM product at invoice or below.
You get what you pay for.
"Exterior size is crucial. It's got to be garageable, it's got to be maneuverable, it's got to be easy for a woman to navigate, got to have good visibility in the rear and front"
Notice he declines to mention how wide it would be...