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Comments
Questions to those of you who have seen it up close:
1.) As far as the Automatic Tran. indicator on the dash. Does it indicate "gears" meaning it is changing all the time (1-5) or does it indicate "selection" like D, R, OD etc... and stay lit? If it's the later that wouldn't bother me so much.
2.) As far as the rear seats...I have sat in the MDX third row and it's not that bad. I'm 6' tall even. Try sitting in the extend cab of a pickup, now that's bad. I know that the Honda will seat three and the Acura only has room for two in the third row but as far a leg room and seat thickness how do they compare? If it's similar to the MDX I'm in.
I sat in the MDX myself in Annapolis, and thought I really like it, it doesn't have the interior space I thought it would. Especially the 3rd row of seats. They are too small for adults in my opinion.
I like the conservative external styling of the Pilot and the ugly dash, that was mentioned earlier, doesn't bother me. But then I owned a plaid sportcoat at one time, so I can put up with a lot.
I want reliability, 4WD-lite (I live in the Northeast but don't plan on going off-road), car-like ride, an occasional 3rd row of seats, decent gas mileage, simple aesthetics and a reasonable price. I have a deposit on an MDX in case the Pilot is a dog, but would love not to pay $35K for the MDX.
To answer another question in the post, no, the gear shift indicator does not change in an automatic transmission whenever the car goes through the 3-4 Drive gears. It won't on a Pilot either. My point is you don't need to see what gear you are in every time you check speed and at night, I predict that indicator will be an annoyance.
To me it looks like you expected too much out of third row in Pilot. I sat in the third row seats of a bunch of SUVs (Sequioa, MDX, TrailBlazer) at Auto Show, and have been on the third row of a Suburban. They are all good for 5-10 minutes of ride for an adult. It would be a torture for me to be in any of the trucks on the third row for any longer. Just like that, a lot of cars are advertised as having 5-passenger capacity, but they are comfortable for no more than four at a time. IMO, Pilot may be comfortable for only 5, with the third row for occasional use, and may be better with the third row folded down for most of its use, if not used for child seat. For practical third row seating, IMO, the best bet is a minivan.
You can forget about it...I don't think you will ever see a bench seat in an SUV. People would rather have a center console AND automakers rather have 2 airbags up front, not three. I have noticed that most of your postings are on the board for "I don't like SUVs why do you?" If that is the case, why are you wasting your time on this board. Why not start your own...Bench seats are heaven.
Annon2 - It's tough to fit an airbag into the radio. Hence very few front benches.
Gear Shift Indicator on Honda Pilot
Looks like Honda tried to give some character to the dash on the Pilot. On TL (Type-S in this case), the indicator is on the tach. On Pilot, it is to the right side of the speedometer rim on metallic accent. I don't remember how it is in Odyssey. This brings up another point. Should Honda continue to do things the way they have done in the past... conservatively?
What do we think about dash that look like this?
I think I like the Pilot's three ring display more than the TL's separate gauges. Though I'm not a big fan of the TL-S silver and white display in the first place.
Again I ask, what is Honda thinking? Why have a AWD system with passenger tires (not SUV tires) on it. I bet you the an ODY with four Blizzaks will have better traction than the Pilot!!
The silver one was on a rotating platform, which was not accessible to the public. The doors and liftgate were open, but that was about the best one could see. You could actually touch the front and rear ends, as it rotated, but that was it. It was somewhat difficult to see inside, but it was obvious that the gear selector was in the steering column, not the dash board, as was earlier reported.
The red one was in another location, but was locked. You could get close to it, but it was difficult to see inside, because of the tinted windows. It was not the same one that has been on the internet, because this one did not have fog lights. There was a promotional film playing next to it, which was narrated by the chief engineer on the project. There was also an informational brochure available, which did not have much more than the press release from last week. It did have a photo, which appeared to be a dark blue color.
I had been waiting to see the Pilot for two months and was disappointed in its style. It is very plain looking. There are some dealer installed trim packages available, which should dress it up. My three teenagers (boy 17, girl 15 and girl 13) hated it. It was just too plain for them.
The car did not have big crowds around it, as did many other cars. The Honda rep and paid models gave out just the standard information. The car appears to have great engineering and convenience features, but just so-so styling.
in terms of no sun roof -- well, that will probably eliminate me -- that features is a reqt for me.
Wonder if it was a mistake or their idea of an April Fool's joke?
Your logic sounds reasonable. The NY Auto Show reports have confirmed my predictions regarding interior size. I will still consider the Pilot if I can find one to sit in.
I have been maintaining a SUV and Minivan MS Excel database to capture and compare various specifications. The Pilot information shows marginal interior improvements (cargo volume)over the MDX and probably will not meet my needs.
Good luck.
Cheers
The Integrity's are not too bad a tire. They are, after all, the standard tire on the Lexus RX300, as well as the base level trim of the MDX. They do okay in mild to moderate snow.
However, they have their limits and some RX owners swear by the Michelin Cross Terrain SUV tires (also a passenger tire), which are standard on the MDX Touring Edition. Haven't had any problems with snow (including inclines) with the Michelins on my MDX.
Are you sure that isn't the newly remodeled 2002 CR-V in Cianti Red? I just bought one and my parents said it was reviewed in the May addition. I hope it's big brother turns out as good as it is, because I'm looking for one myself (the wife got the CRV
Tires can also be replaced. Althouth car tires with AWD are one heck of a lot better than front-wheel drive car tires on a car. I'm not talking about off-roading here. I'm talking about snow. That is the primary reason why those of us north of the flatlands buy SUV's.
Assuming it does not drive poorly, I'd still rather have a Pilot (based on what I've seen) than any American product and most other Japanese products. To get that reliability and size for under $30k is money well spent for me.
There is no "perfect" car.....different strokes for different folks.
Nice catch Moonkat.
Thankyou, thankyou, thankyouvery much.....
For pilot content; some new images of Pilot at Temple of VTEC beta site (under news):
http://beta.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=4921
Best image I have seen of Pilot third row. BTW I own an Ody, have sat in MDX, 97 Suburban, Durango, and last week in an Expedition third row seats. The MDX was tight (I'm 6' even) only in legroom not headroom, but the others were tight and torturous to get into. There is a reason they call that seat the "wayback". For the Expy it should be called the "outback" - easier to get in from the cargo area. Expy had such shortage of headroom that I had to duck when driver headed over RR tracks.
Also, sales rep confirms cargo capacity of 90cf. MDX is 82cf so some of that may go to third row volume.
Soon to be pilotkat
Thanks
Mike
Dimensions - Exterior
2002 Envoy XL/2002 Acura MDX
Length (inches) 207.6/188.5
Wheelbase (inches) 129.0/106.3
Height (inches) 75.5/68.7
Steve
Sorry, but if I had to carry that many people on a daily basis, I'd opt for a more fuel-efficient minivan. Neither the Pilot nor the MDX messed up in regards to their 3rd rows. If Honda designers had indeed designed the 3rd row to accomodate adults, both the MDX and Pilot would look just as ungainly as the Envoy XL (too long).
The Envoy has some nice features, no doubt, and it's more a true full-sized SUV than the Pilot is.
However, another item that may enter your consideration are the IIHS crash test results of the GMC Envoy. These are not for the XL version, but unless GMC has made alterations to the front structure of the vehicle, they should be consistent. I think the XL is mostly a lengthening of the rear of the vehicle.
Here's a link to the crash test. Its only scored a "marginal" as opposed to "acceptable" (better) or "good" (even better) or "good" with a "Best Pick" designation:
http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0119.htm
NHTSA has not performed its full-frontal crash test on the Envoy yet. The Envoy did score 5-stars for front and rear passengers in the NHTSA side impact crash tests. However, since the NHTSA test uses a barrier the height of a Corolla, most mid-sized and full-sized SUV's do well in that test. (NHTSA should bash them with a vehicle the size of a minivan or SUV.)
The Pilot should end up with the highest scores in the crash tests, since it's based on the MDX which has done well. It may even exceed the MDX, as a slightly updated design, and if it is bigger.
Just a personal opinion, but if I was in the market for a full-sized SUV, I'd look at the expensive but excellent Toyota Sequoia. It hasn't been crash-tested yet, but is based on the Toyota Tundra which has earned a "Good" in the IIHS test.
Good luck on your purchase!
Another thing to consider is third row seating postion. Because of the way the seats sit close to the floor, you might find yourself with your knees close to your head...there is not a lot of depth in the floor back there....just like the Durango which I think is very uncomfortable.
If you are thinking of a Envoy XL I suggest you look at the Tahoe with third row seating or the Suburban...they are all within 12 inches of each other. Drive them for extended periods (45 mins) with the kids in the back row....see if they are comfortable or if they get car sick
Overall Length: Envoy - 191.6" XL - 207.6"
Wheelbase: Envoy - 113" XL - 129"
I hope that GMC increased the strength of the side door beams tremendously to compensate. With kids safety being one of your prime concerns, take this under serious consideration.
Plus, to me, the proportions look odd on this truck.
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
From a safety standpoint, I'm concerned about the 3rd seat being really close to the tailgate(driven an MDX). Anyone else concerned? Any Engineers think that a trailer hitch for towing welded to the frame of the car would help take some impact before the crumple zone comes into the rear-end senario?
Sailing216- according to Bob, the back seat is identical to the MDX, except that you can fit 3 small kids. The distance from the third seat to the tailgate is about the same. Hope this helps.
IMHO, moving up to a ladder frame, gas-guzzling, full size SUV isn't the best idea. I can understand not wanting to buy into the mommy-mobile image of a mini-van, but I'd only trade so many criteria for that perception. The safety of the occupants is not one of them.
The Pilot looks to be a clear winner. I wasn't able to sit in one (they were locked up tight), but based on what I saw, I expect the 3rd seat room/comfort to be comparable to a 3-row seat Explorer. I don't think normal-sized adults would want to spend much time back there.
The Envoy XL is a joke. It looks like GM hired some engineers who's only experience is in working on stretch limos; that's how it comes across. As bad as the Envoy XL (and Chevy version too) is, the new Isuzu Ascender is nothing but a complete clone of the GMC. I bet Isuzu will be out of the SUV business within 5 years. This thing has no chance of succeeding.
Bob
According to Dan Jedlicka, "the MDX is designed ... to withstand a 35-mph rear impact with no intrusion into the third-row seating area."
http://carpoint.msn.com/Vip/Jedlicka/Acura/MDX/2001.asp
I'd accept Honda/Acura claims on collision performance. They've obviously done their internal testing to back up those claims. E.g. they claimed the MDX would get 5-star NHTSA and good (highest) IIHS scores. Thus far the MDX has gotten Best Pick-Good in the IIHS test and 5-stars in the NHTSA side impact tests, with only the NHTSA full-frontal test pending (results may be available this month).