Bob, my e-mail address is terence.lewis@teoaf.treas.gov. Please, send me a message before 4:30 this afternoon. I would really like to chat with you. I was very comfortable driving the Odyssey, and loved it.
I have been following this board for some time and now want to add my two cents. I have a 99 C-RV and a third kid on the way. Three car seats are tight (understatement)and the pilot looks like it will solve that problem and still give me plenty ao cargo room plus an extra three seats if I need them. The styling does not bother me after all lets not forget that the "u" in SUV stands for utility and the Pilot looks like it has plenty of that.
Questions to those of you who have seen it up close: 1.) As far as the Automatic Tran. indicator on the dash. Does it indicate "gears" meaning it is changing all the time (1-5) or does it indicate "selection" like D, R, OD etc... and stay lit? If it's the later that wouldn't bother me so much.
2.) As far as the rear seats...I have sat in the MDX third row and it's not that bad. I'm 6' tall even. Try sitting in the extend cab of a pickup, now that's bad. I know that the Honda will seat three and the Acura only has room for two in the third row but as far a leg room and seat thickness how do they compare? If it's similar to the MDX I'm in.
At the Acura dealership last weekend, the guy told me that the chief designer of the MDX was 6'4". I am 6'0", and had a ton of room in there-very comfortable. I suspect the Pilot will be very similar, if not roomier.
I sat in the MDX myself in Annapolis, and thought I really like it, it doesn't have the interior space I thought it would. Especially the 3rd row of seats. They are too small for adults in my opinion.
I'm 5-10 and sat in the 3rd row of an MDX. For relatively short rides (an hour or less), it's ok. A bit like a Delta flight I was on recently. It was a little tricky getting in and out, but not a big deal if you only need it occasionally.
I like the conservative external styling of the Pilot and the ugly dash, that was mentioned earlier, doesn't bother me. But then I owned a plaid sportcoat at one time, so I can put up with a lot.
I want reliability, 4WD-lite (I live in the Northeast but don't plan on going off-road), car-like ride, an occasional 3rd row of seats, decent gas mileage, simple aesthetics and a reasonable price. I have a deposit on an MDX in case the Pilot is a dog, but would love not to pay $35K for the MDX.
I'm with Markus17. No vehicle can be everything to everyone. The guy that ripped it apart at the NY show probably loves vehicles that I hate and vice versa. Everything I've seen on the Pilot looks great. My final decision will come at the dealership in June. No one will sway me otherwise until I've sat in it and driven it.
I actually agree with you. You should not make a decision about the vehicle until you sit in it. Last week I was a huge advocate of the Pilot, first on the list at my dealership to get one, etc. Then I saw one, sat in one (of course couldn't drive it) and left very, very disappointed. I have owned 6 Hondas in my life, including a current Odyssey. Believe me, when you see the Pilot you too will be wondering, "what were they thinking"
To answer another question in the post, no, the gear shift indicator does not change in an automatic transmission whenever the car goes through the 3-4 Drive gears. It won't on a Pilot either. My point is you don't need to see what gear you are in every time you check speed and at night, I predict that indicator will be an annoyance.
I am not sure what would be different about gear indicator from other Hondas. I like knowing the gear selection even with automatic. It has happened with me in the past that I have left the gear selection on D3 instead of D4, only to realize later on a freeway.
To me it looks like you expected too much out of third row in Pilot. I sat in the third row seats of a bunch of SUVs (Sequioa, MDX, TrailBlazer) at Auto Show, and have been on the third row of a Suburban. They are all good for 5-10 minutes of ride for an adult. It would be a torture for me to be in any of the trucks on the third row for any longer. Just like that, a lot of cars are advertised as having 5-passenger capacity, but they are comfortable for no more than four at a time. IMO, Pilot may be comfortable for only 5, with the third row for occasional use, and may be better with the third row folded down for most of its use, if not used for child seat. For practical third row seating, IMO, the best bet is a minivan.
You can forget about it...I don't think you will ever see a bench seat in an SUV. People would rather have a center console AND automakers rather have 2 airbags up front, not three. I have noticed that most of your postings are on the board for "I don't like SUVs why do you?" If that is the case, why are you wasting your time on this board. Why not start your own...Bench seats are heaven.
I have the lit gear selector on the dash of my wife's TL. No problem. It makes more sense with the SportShift option (when it does help to know what gear you're in), but I don't see how it could be a problem.
Annon2 - It's tough to fit an airbag into the radio. Hence very few front benches.
Either the tach or the speedo. I'm not sure off the top of my noodle. It's a little box with a red LED readout. In automatic mode, it displays a "D". When in SportShift mode, it displays the gear, "1 through 5".
Looks like Honda tried to give some character to the dash on the Pilot. On TL (Type-S in this case), the indicator is on the tach. On Pilot, it is to the right side of the speedometer rim on metallic accent. I don't remember how it is in Odyssey. This brings up another point. Should Honda continue to do things the way they have done in the past... conservatively?
My wife also has a TL. The gear indicator is within the tach. I drive the car fairly often and haven't found it to be a problem. I don't think I'd care even if it was within the speedo. As far as the third row in the Pilot goes, I've gotten into the third row of an MDX and agree it is cramped and hard to get into but I'm 60 years old so I'm not as limber as I used to be. I guess it would be OK for kids (or grandkids in my case) so long as someone younger has to put the car seats in place I still haven't heard anything to make me want to cancel my order.
I don't see why the placement of the Pilot's shift indicator would be an annoyance. It's not like it is going to be constantly changing or blinking or anything. At night it will be a steady green light next to the speedometer. My guess is that anyone who finds it distracting at first will find it fades into the background very quickly. No big deal.
That Lexus dash looks cool, but I can't read what it says. My guess would be that it looks less cool when it's not lit up with stage lights, but is also easier to read.
I think I like the Pilot's three ring display more than the TL's separate gauges. Though I'm not a big fan of the TL-S silver and white display in the first place.
Does anyone have an idea why Honda is putting passenger car tires (not light truck/Suv) tires on the Pilot? Pilots are coming with Goodyear Integrity. That tire is not currently rated for SUV applications. While I understand tires such as this might reduce road noise, they aren't good in the snow. Take a look at the Car and Driver report on the Ford Escape/Mazda Tribute...that truck was also fitted with passenger tires and they are TERRIBLE in the snow..in a comparison with eight other small SUVs last year, the Escape/Tribute lost a lot of points because of inferior tires. Also a number of postings on the Escape/Tribute board about the wrong type of tires on the truck.
Again I ask, what is Honda thinking? Why have a AWD system with passenger tires (not SUV tires) on it. I bet you the an ODY with four Blizzaks will have better traction than the Pilot!!
The new CRV has the shift indicator (a vertical row) on the dash, near the speedometer (the current "state" is light up)...doesnt distract me in the least...although neither does the fact that when the CRV speedometer needle is in the 12 oclock position that means your doing 80+ (I'm used to it being 60 in my old truck)...gonna get a ticket (especially since its Chianti Red)
Because Honda wants the Pilot to ride like a passenger car. I think most buyers would prefer that. I just can't picture a buyer saying "Gosh darn those Honda people, I can't go off-roading with these passenger car tires."
I have been following these postings for the past two months and have been eagerly awaiting my visit to the York Auto Show. I went the other day and there were two Pilot EX's, with leather on display. One was silver and the other was red.
The silver one was on a rotating platform, which was not accessible to the public. The doors and liftgate were open, but that was about the best one could see. You could actually touch the front and rear ends, as it rotated, but that was it. It was somewhat difficult to see inside, but it was obvious that the gear selector was in the steering column, not the dash board, as was earlier reported.
The red one was in another location, but was locked. You could get close to it, but it was difficult to see inside, because of the tinted windows. It was not the same one that has been on the internet, because this one did not have fog lights. There was a promotional film playing next to it, which was narrated by the chief engineer on the project. There was also an informational brochure available, which did not have much more than the press release from last week. It did have a photo, which appeared to be a dark blue color.
I had been waiting to see the Pilot for two months and was disappointed in its style. It is very plain looking. There are some dealer installed trim packages available, which should dress it up. My three teenagers (boy 17, girl 15 and girl 13) hated it. It was just too plain for them.
The car did not have big crowds around it, as did many other cars. The Honda rep and paid models gave out just the standard information. The car appears to have great engineering and convenience features, but just so-so styling.
thx for the feedback on the pilot. from what i can tell, this is a crossover between van and suv -- take the space of the van and re-shape the interior and exterior to look more like a suv.
in terms of no sun roof -- well, that will probably eliminate me -- that features is a reqt for me.
Your logic sounds reasonable. The NY Auto Show reports have confirmed my predictions regarding interior size. I will still consider the Pilot if I can find one to sit in.
I have been maintaining a SUV and Minivan MS Excel database to capture and compare various specifications. The Pilot information shows marginal interior improvements (cargo volume)over the MDX and probably will not meet my needs.
I've seen one claim that over 95% of SUV owners do not take their vehicles off-road. The Pilot is clearly aimed at that 95% and those buyers prefer general comfort vs. tires capable of off-roading applications.
The Integrity's are not too bad a tire. They are, after all, the standard tire on the Lexus RX300, as well as the base level trim of the MDX. They do okay in mild to moderate snow.
However, they have their limits and some RX owners swear by the Michelin Cross Terrain SUV tires (also a passenger tire), which are standard on the MDX Touring Edition. Haven't had any problems with snow (including inclines) with the Michelins on my MDX.
Are you sure that isn't the newly remodeled 2002 CR-V in Cianti Red? I just bought one and my parents said it was reviewed in the May addition. I hope it's big brother turns out as good as it is, because I'm looking for one myself (the wife got the CRV
What is everyone expecting here? This is a Honda we're talking about. No one makes an SUV that can seat eight 6-foot adults, have a dash layout like a Mercedes/BMW, have the power and handling of a BMW and the off-road capabilities of a Hummer! Take the vehicle for what it is. Every picture I've seen makes it look like a great, conservative, SUV.
Tires can also be replaced. Althouth car tires with AWD are one heck of a lot better than front-wheel drive car tires on a car. I'm not talking about off-roading here. I'm talking about snow. That is the primary reason why those of us north of the flatlands buy SUV's.
Assuming it does not drive poorly, I'd still rather have a Pilot (based on what I've seen) than any American product and most other Japanese products. To get that reliability and size for under $30k is money well spent for me.
There is no "perfect" car.....different strokes for different folks.
PilotOwner - I think that this is the story that you are thinking of, White Snow and the Seven Dwarves. Note that pretty much all of the vehicles in this test were wearing passenger tires. It just happens that the Escape and Tribute were both shod with poor quality passenger tires.
MoonKat is absolutely correct! There is a picture of the Pilot on the cover of May's Consumer Report. Inside, they are rating four small SUV's including the 2002 Honda CR-V. The editors of CR simply made a huge mistake and put the wrong truck on the cover of the magazine!
Best image I have seen of Pilot third row. BTW I own an Ody, have sat in MDX, 97 Suburban, Durango, and last week in an Expedition third row seats. The MDX was tight (I'm 6' even) only in legroom not headroom, but the others were tight and torturous to get into. There is a reason they call that seat the "wayback". For the Expy it should be called the "outback" - easier to get in from the cargo area. Expy had such shortage of headroom that I had to duck when driver headed over RR tracks.
Also, sales rep confirms cargo capacity of 90cf. MDX is 82cf so some of that may go to third row volume.
Hi all, my husband just called from the Auto Show in N.Y. He was so disappointed at what he saw. Our main concerns were the vents for the third row and the third row seat. Well, there are no vents for the third row, they are in the console right in front of the second row, identical to the MDX. Also, third row was TIGHT! We have three kids under the age of 9, so now we are looking at the Odyssey and the GMC Envoy XL. According to him, the Envoy XL's third row was great! It had all the features we had hoped the Pilot was going to have. Honda really messed up, this could have been a great vehicle.
Although they havent released the dimensions of the Pilot...if we use those of the MDX (assume it will be close)...The Envoy XL is huge in comparison...Personally, I would never plan to use the Pilot or MDX's 3rd row as anything more than a bonus space for short trips (for kids)...they are two different classes of vehicles (remember, MDX/Pilot are marketed as a MID-size...ie Ford Explorer....the Envoy XL is larger than the Ford Expedition)
The Envoy XL's wheelbase is only 1 inch shorter than that of a full-size Suburban. GM has even stated that the reason why there wasn't a 7-seater Envoy when the redesigned SUVs were released was because they wanted an SUV where ADULTS could actually sit in the 3rd row.
Sorry, but if I had to carry that many people on a daily basis, I'd opt for a more fuel-efficient minivan. Neither the Pilot nor the MDX messed up in regards to their 3rd rows. If Honda designers had indeed designed the 3rd row to accomodate adults, both the MDX and Pilot would look just as ungainly as the Envoy XL (too long).
The main reason this vehicle will not work for us is that two of our kids will be sitting in the third row and one in the second row. That's how they are in our Astro and it works great. We need comfortable and roomy seats in the third row since we take many trips throughout the year. My husband is only 5'10" and he had a difficult time getting in and out, plus the third row was only accessible from the passenger side. He sat in the Envoy XL, third row was easily accessible, comfortable, roomy and made for adults. Granted, they are very different size vehicles, but the third row is a big concern for us. Still undecided which way to go, GMC or Odyssey.
I would assume that you would have to consider the quality of the Odyssey over the GMC Envoy. There is also the possiblity that the 2003 Envoy's quality will have increased.
I know what you are saying, I feel that Honda is a better quality vehicle than the GMC, especially on resale. We have never owned a Honda and when we talk to people that do, they love it. Unfortunately, the GMC has everything in it that I want. We have already driven the Odyssey and we loved it. But, my feeling is we already have a van, been there, done that, time to move on. I will have to wait until the Envoy XL hits the lot and and take it for a drive. I know this is going to be a tough decision.
The Envoy has some nice features, no doubt, and it's more a true full-sized SUV than the Pilot is.
However, another item that may enter your consideration are the IIHS crash test results of the GMC Envoy. These are not for the XL version, but unless GMC has made alterations to the front structure of the vehicle, they should be consistent. I think the XL is mostly a lengthening of the rear of the vehicle.
Here's a link to the crash test. Its only scored a "marginal" as opposed to "acceptable" (better) or "good" (even better) or "good" with a "Best Pick" designation:
NHTSA has not performed its full-frontal crash test on the Envoy yet. The Envoy did score 5-stars for front and rear passengers in the NHTSA side impact crash tests. However, since the NHTSA test uses a barrier the height of a Corolla, most mid-sized and full-sized SUV's do well in that test. (NHTSA should bash them with a vehicle the size of a minivan or SUV.)
The Pilot should end up with the highest scores in the crash tests, since it's based on the MDX which has done well. It may even exceed the MDX, as a slightly updated design, and if it is bigger.
Just a personal opinion, but if I was in the market for a full-sized SUV, I'd look at the expensive but excellent Toyota Sequoia. It hasn't been crash-tested yet, but is based on the Toyota Tundra which has earned a "Good" in the IIHS test.
Has GMC changed the rear suspension on the Envoy XL to an independent rear suspension? I believe the suspension on the regular size Envoy is a solid rear suspension. A solid suspension makes for a very rough ride in the back...it rides like a truck. In an independent rear suspension, the ride is much smoother because each wheel absorbs the bump/pothole, etc. independently and does not transfer that movement to the entire rear suspension. Honda has independent rear suspension, I know the Ford Explorer does as well and the new Ford Everest which was introduced at NY auto show will have independent rear suspension at launch in June. An Everest is an Expedition with independent rear suspension. Another thing to consider is third row seating postion. Because of the way the seats sit close to the floor, you might find yourself with your knees close to your head...there is not a lot of depth in the floor back there....just like the Durango which I think is very uncomfortable.
If you are thinking of a Envoy XL I suggest you look at the Tahoe with third row seating or the Suburban...they are all within 12 inches of each other. Drive them for extended periods (45 mins) with the kids in the back row....see if they are comfortable or if they get car sick
I hope that GMC increased the strength of the side door beams tremendously to compensate. With kids safety being one of your prime concerns, take this under serious consideration.
Plus, to me, the proportions look odd on this truck.
Porknbeans
Grand High Poobah The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
Any links to pics of the LX version, specifically the wheels, or is it hub caps? So I'm hearing, about 2 grand for wheels/cool cup holder tray/sycronized air conditioners/and more speakers---Is there anything else important to opt for spending the extra 2k from the LX to EX? Is there a seat fabric difference?
From a safety standpoint, I'm concerned about the 3rd seat being really close to the tailgate(driven an MDX). Anyone else concerned? Any Engineers think that a trailer hitch for towing welded to the frame of the car would help take some impact before the crumple zone comes into the rear-end senario?
I spoke with my husband again. We are going with the Odyssey. He said the finishing touches were better and all the buttons are where they needed to be. Now we just need to see the Havasu Blue. Anyone know when it is available?
Sailing216- according to Bob, the back seat is identical to the MDX, except that you can fit 3 small kids. The distance from the third seat to the tailgate is about the same. Hope this helps.
I've been assuming that the third row in any mid-size vehicle was mostly for "emergency purposes" or short trips. Anyone looking for true third row seating should look into a van.
IMHO, moving up to a ladder frame, gas-guzzling, full size SUV isn't the best idea. I can understand not wanting to buy into the mommy-mobile image of a mini-van, but I'd only trade so many criteria for that perception. The safety of the occupants is not one of them.
The Pilot looks to be a clear winner. I wasn't able to sit in one (they were locked up tight), but based on what I saw, I expect the 3rd seat room/comfort to be comparable to a 3-row seat Explorer. I don't think normal-sized adults would want to spend much time back there.
The Envoy XL is a joke. It looks like GM hired some engineers who's only experience is in working on stretch limos; that's how it comes across. As bad as the Envoy XL (and Chevy version too) is, the new Isuzu Ascender is nothing but a complete clone of the GMC. I bet Isuzu will be out of the SUV business within 5 years. This thing has no chance of succeeding.
I'd accept Honda/Acura claims on collision performance. They've obviously done their internal testing to back up those claims. E.g. they claimed the MDX would get 5-star NHTSA and good (highest) IIHS scores. Thus far the MDX has gotten Best Pick-Good in the IIHS test and 5-stars in the NHTSA side impact tests, with only the NHTSA full-frontal test pending (results may be available this month).
What the heck is "syncronized climate control"? I'm picturing separate controls for front and rear, not in sync. with each other. Any thoughts? My old Dodge Grand Caravan had separate controls but I don't see where they would by syncronized.
The question is, is Isuzu still making vehicles? Sad to see one time largest truckmaker in the world disappear, and become another parts supplier for GM (and probably others).
Comments
Questions to those of you who have seen it up close:
1.) As far as the Automatic Tran. indicator on the dash. Does it indicate "gears" meaning it is changing all the time (1-5) or does it indicate "selection" like D, R, OD etc... and stay lit? If it's the later that wouldn't bother me so much.
2.) As far as the rear seats...I have sat in the MDX third row and it's not that bad. I'm 6' tall even. Try sitting in the extend cab of a pickup, now that's bad. I know that the Honda will seat three and the Acura only has room for two in the third row but as far a leg room and seat thickness how do they compare? If it's similar to the MDX I'm in.
I sat in the MDX myself in Annapolis, and thought I really like it, it doesn't have the interior space I thought it would. Especially the 3rd row of seats. They are too small for adults in my opinion.
I like the conservative external styling of the Pilot and the ugly dash, that was mentioned earlier, doesn't bother me. But then I owned a plaid sportcoat at one time, so I can put up with a lot.
I want reliability, 4WD-lite (I live in the Northeast but don't plan on going off-road), car-like ride, an occasional 3rd row of seats, decent gas mileage, simple aesthetics and a reasonable price. I have a deposit on an MDX in case the Pilot is a dog, but would love not to pay $35K for the MDX.
To answer another question in the post, no, the gear shift indicator does not change in an automatic transmission whenever the car goes through the 3-4 Drive gears. It won't on a Pilot either. My point is you don't need to see what gear you are in every time you check speed and at night, I predict that indicator will be an annoyance.
To me it looks like you expected too much out of third row in Pilot. I sat in the third row seats of a bunch of SUVs (Sequioa, MDX, TrailBlazer) at Auto Show, and have been on the third row of a Suburban. They are all good for 5-10 minutes of ride for an adult. It would be a torture for me to be in any of the trucks on the third row for any longer. Just like that, a lot of cars are advertised as having 5-passenger capacity, but they are comfortable for no more than four at a time. IMO, Pilot may be comfortable for only 5, with the third row for occasional use, and may be better with the third row folded down for most of its use, if not used for child seat. For practical third row seating, IMO, the best bet is a minivan.
You can forget about it...I don't think you will ever see a bench seat in an SUV. People would rather have a center console AND automakers rather have 2 airbags up front, not three. I have noticed that most of your postings are on the board for "I don't like SUVs why do you?" If that is the case, why are you wasting your time on this board. Why not start your own...Bench seats are heaven.
Annon2 - It's tough to fit an airbag into the radio. Hence very few front benches.
Gear Shift Indicator on Honda Pilot
Looks like Honda tried to give some character to the dash on the Pilot. On TL (Type-S in this case), the indicator is on the tach. On Pilot, it is to the right side of the speedometer rim on metallic accent. I don't remember how it is in Odyssey. This brings up another point. Should Honda continue to do things the way they have done in the past... conservatively?
What do we think about dash that look like this?
I think I like the Pilot's three ring display more than the TL's separate gauges. Though I'm not a big fan of the TL-S silver and white display in the first place.
Again I ask, what is Honda thinking? Why have a AWD system with passenger tires (not SUV tires) on it. I bet you the an ODY with four Blizzaks will have better traction than the Pilot!!
The silver one was on a rotating platform, which was not accessible to the public. The doors and liftgate were open, but that was about the best one could see. You could actually touch the front and rear ends, as it rotated, but that was it. It was somewhat difficult to see inside, but it was obvious that the gear selector was in the steering column, not the dash board, as was earlier reported.
The red one was in another location, but was locked. You could get close to it, but it was difficult to see inside, because of the tinted windows. It was not the same one that has been on the internet, because this one did not have fog lights. There was a promotional film playing next to it, which was narrated by the chief engineer on the project. There was also an informational brochure available, which did not have much more than the press release from last week. It did have a photo, which appeared to be a dark blue color.
I had been waiting to see the Pilot for two months and was disappointed in its style. It is very plain looking. There are some dealer installed trim packages available, which should dress it up. My three teenagers (boy 17, girl 15 and girl 13) hated it. It was just too plain for them.
The car did not have big crowds around it, as did many other cars. The Honda rep and paid models gave out just the standard information. The car appears to have great engineering and convenience features, but just so-so styling.
in terms of no sun roof -- well, that will probably eliminate me -- that features is a reqt for me.
Wonder if it was a mistake or their idea of an April Fool's joke?
Your logic sounds reasonable. The NY Auto Show reports have confirmed my predictions regarding interior size. I will still consider the Pilot if I can find one to sit in.
I have been maintaining a SUV and Minivan MS Excel database to capture and compare various specifications. The Pilot information shows marginal interior improvements (cargo volume)over the MDX and probably will not meet my needs.
Good luck.
Cheers
The Integrity's are not too bad a tire. They are, after all, the standard tire on the Lexus RX300, as well as the base level trim of the MDX. They do okay in mild to moderate snow.
However, they have their limits and some RX owners swear by the Michelin Cross Terrain SUV tires (also a passenger tire), which are standard on the MDX Touring Edition. Haven't had any problems with snow (including inclines) with the Michelins on my MDX.
Are you sure that isn't the newly remodeled 2002 CR-V in Cianti Red? I just bought one and my parents said it was reviewed in the May addition. I hope it's big brother turns out as good as it is, because I'm looking for one myself (the wife got the CRV
Tires can also be replaced. Althouth car tires with AWD are one heck of a lot better than front-wheel drive car tires on a car. I'm not talking about off-roading here. I'm talking about snow. That is the primary reason why those of us north of the flatlands buy SUV's.
Assuming it does not drive poorly, I'd still rather have a Pilot (based on what I've seen) than any American product and most other Japanese products. To get that reliability and size for under $30k is money well spent for me.
There is no "perfect" car.....different strokes for different folks.
Nice catch Moonkat.
Thankyou, thankyou, thankyouvery much.....
For pilot content; some new images of Pilot at Temple of VTEC beta site (under news):
http://beta.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=4921
Best image I have seen of Pilot third row. BTW I own an Ody, have sat in MDX, 97 Suburban, Durango, and last week in an Expedition third row seats. The MDX was tight (I'm 6' even) only in legroom not headroom, but the others were tight and torturous to get into. There is a reason they call that seat the "wayback". For the Expy it should be called the "outback" - easier to get in from the cargo area. Expy had such shortage of headroom that I had to duck when driver headed over RR tracks.
Also, sales rep confirms cargo capacity of 90cf. MDX is 82cf so some of that may go to third row volume.
Soon to be pilotkat
Thanks
Mike
Dimensions - Exterior
2002 Envoy XL/2002 Acura MDX
Length (inches) 207.6/188.5
Wheelbase (inches) 129.0/106.3
Height (inches) 75.5/68.7
Steve
Sorry, but if I had to carry that many people on a daily basis, I'd opt for a more fuel-efficient minivan. Neither the Pilot nor the MDX messed up in regards to their 3rd rows. If Honda designers had indeed designed the 3rd row to accomodate adults, both the MDX and Pilot would look just as ungainly as the Envoy XL (too long).
The Envoy has some nice features, no doubt, and it's more a true full-sized SUV than the Pilot is.
However, another item that may enter your consideration are the IIHS crash test results of the GMC Envoy. These are not for the XL version, but unless GMC has made alterations to the front structure of the vehicle, they should be consistent. I think the XL is mostly a lengthening of the rear of the vehicle.
Here's a link to the crash test. Its only scored a "marginal" as opposed to "acceptable" (better) or "good" (even better) or "good" with a "Best Pick" designation:
http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0119.htm
NHTSA has not performed its full-frontal crash test on the Envoy yet. The Envoy did score 5-stars for front and rear passengers in the NHTSA side impact crash tests. However, since the NHTSA test uses a barrier the height of a Corolla, most mid-sized and full-sized SUV's do well in that test. (NHTSA should bash them with a vehicle the size of a minivan or SUV.)
The Pilot should end up with the highest scores in the crash tests, since it's based on the MDX which has done well. It may even exceed the MDX, as a slightly updated design, and if it is bigger.
Just a personal opinion, but if I was in the market for a full-sized SUV, I'd look at the expensive but excellent Toyota Sequoia. It hasn't been crash-tested yet, but is based on the Toyota Tundra which has earned a "Good" in the IIHS test.
Good luck on your purchase!
Another thing to consider is third row seating postion. Because of the way the seats sit close to the floor, you might find yourself with your knees close to your head...there is not a lot of depth in the floor back there....just like the Durango which I think is very uncomfortable.
If you are thinking of a Envoy XL I suggest you look at the Tahoe with third row seating or the Suburban...they are all within 12 inches of each other. Drive them for extended periods (45 mins) with the kids in the back row....see if they are comfortable or if they get car sick
Overall Length: Envoy - 191.6" XL - 207.6"
Wheelbase: Envoy - 113" XL - 129"
I hope that GMC increased the strength of the side door beams tremendously to compensate. With kids safety being one of your prime concerns, take this under serious consideration.
Plus, to me, the proportions look odd on this truck.
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
From a safety standpoint, I'm concerned about the 3rd seat being really close to the tailgate(driven an MDX). Anyone else concerned? Any Engineers think that a trailer hitch for towing welded to the frame of the car would help take some impact before the crumple zone comes into the rear-end senario?
Sailing216- according to Bob, the back seat is identical to the MDX, except that you can fit 3 small kids. The distance from the third seat to the tailgate is about the same. Hope this helps.
IMHO, moving up to a ladder frame, gas-guzzling, full size SUV isn't the best idea. I can understand not wanting to buy into the mommy-mobile image of a mini-van, but I'd only trade so many criteria for that perception. The safety of the occupants is not one of them.
The Pilot looks to be a clear winner. I wasn't able to sit in one (they were locked up tight), but based on what I saw, I expect the 3rd seat room/comfort to be comparable to a 3-row seat Explorer. I don't think normal-sized adults would want to spend much time back there.
The Envoy XL is a joke. It looks like GM hired some engineers who's only experience is in working on stretch limos; that's how it comes across. As bad as the Envoy XL (and Chevy version too) is, the new Isuzu Ascender is nothing but a complete clone of the GMC. I bet Isuzu will be out of the SUV business within 5 years. This thing has no chance of succeeding.
Bob
According to Dan Jedlicka, "the MDX is designed ... to withstand a 35-mph rear impact with no intrusion into the third-row seating area."
http://carpoint.msn.com/Vip/Jedlicka/Acura/MDX/2001.asp
I'd accept Honda/Acura claims on collision performance. They've obviously done their internal testing to back up those claims. E.g. they claimed the MDX would get 5-star NHTSA and good (highest) IIHS scores. Thus far the MDX has gotten Best Pick-Good in the IIHS test and 5-stars in the NHTSA side impact tests, with only the NHTSA full-frontal test pending (results may be available this month).