I for one, don't care that Honda is not currently offering a sunroof on the Pilot since I would never consider getting a sunroof. A power sliding sunroof typically subtracts anywhere from 1 to 2 inches of headroom from a vehicle. At 6'-7" tall I have yet to find a vehicle with a sunroof that I can fit in. I prefer the looks of the MDX to the rather generic styling of the Pilot and if I had the money, I would even consider getting an MDX and paying them to remove the sunroof.
A bit off topic here but, I believe that a sunroof should be an STAND ALONE option on any car you could purchase, including the Pilot. That way, anyone who likes that feature on their car could get it. However, I don't think that sunroof should be a STANDARD feature on any vehicle or a required "feature" in order to get another option. There are a lot of features on some vehicles that I would enjoy having in my car but in order to get them they are packaged with a sunroof. Sorry for the slightly off topic rant but the "sunroof" issue is a sore spot for me.
I'm vertically challenged so I don't have your issue regarding sunroofs. Honda does things a bit differently than a lot of the other automakers in terms of options. They typically bundle the options in the different trim levels. So the EX trim will have the sunroof and the ABS and the side-airbags, etc. that an LX might not have. Some (like me) really like this way of doing business. No pulling hair out over options and option packages. You want a specific feature, you move up in trim line. Others prefer the way someone like Toyota does it where (IMO) they option you to death. Honda still does it (for the most part) the way all imports used to do it (it was a function of them being imports---they shipped 'em over as is---any options, the dealer installed).
As for your desire to have the sunroof removed. I'm not sure how that request would be handled.
The price difference between EX and EX-L is $1,500 not $300. I wonder if these numbers are correct. It seems they should all be about $1,000 less. College Hills Honda, which has been quick to offer information, still doesn't have prices listed, just the $26,000 to $32,000 range we've heard before.
One of my local dealer jockey's stated that there will be no moon roof because the 'A' and 'B' pillar are too close together to allow it. Of course, he couldn't tell me anything else about the vehicle (options, pricing, mileage, etc....) so consider the source.
Sailing216 the difference between the EX and EX-L on that site is $1500 not $300. I actually thought the pricing seemed decent but I haven't compared it to the say a Highlander which probably starts lower and because I believe they sell a front wheel drive only option. Other then the obvious exterior styling differences with the MDX, most of the bells and whistles on the MDX other then the moon roof to me are inconsequential. So it seems like a pretty good buy to me relative to the MDX. The fog lights were very pricey though. I guess I won't be picking up that option.
Has American Honda released _actual_ MSRP numbers yet, aside from the $26K to $32K range that they announced at the NY Auto Show? Per http://www.hondanews.com, there is nothing more specific than the $26K to $32K.
You should be able to buy them from a discounter like www.hondacuraworld.com. They should come with installation instructions for the do-it-yourselfer. Only issue is whether or not installation will require doing anything to the bumper. E.g. is it complex or are there pre-formed punch-outs in the bumper.
$2,000 between EX and EX-L? That better be some really nice leather! I hope it comes with heated seats as well for that price.
This guy has got to be blowing smoke. No way he has those numbers before anyone else.
As far as moonroofs go, I've got one in my Acura Integra and it's open from May until October unless it's raining. It's not a requirement on my Pilot, but it sure would be great to have. To each their own on options.....
If your vehicle is not in demand, Anderson will not gouch. For the Ody they will, they were asking $2000 above MSRP. They think they will ask above MSRP for the Pilot.
released any info on specific vehicle pricing yet. I do have alist of options that are available for the Pilot, but no pricing as of yet on the options. Looks like the Rear View Camera is now an option, as is the Back up sensor.
Please keep in mind that Honda releases pricing about two weeks from initial roll out.
So, Jerry, do you have any more info on what distinguishes the models? ie, what does an EX have over an LX?
I put a refundable deposit on an EX (silver) today. The salesman just got a list of the 6 they're expecting, with no more info than the models, color, and production dates. He said delivery probably would be about 2 weeks later. It looks like they are going to try to get $3000 over MSRP, but we don't intend to pay that much. Anyway, we weren't obligated to talk price today, and I figured I had nothing to lose by reserving this one and then waiting for the rest of the dealers in my area to get more info. None of the other ones even want to take deposits...
Getting an MDX at a much lower price (at least in theory - I'm not factoring in dealer markups & demand). They have to justify the MDX's price somehow...
its all speculation right now as to the differences between the EX and LX. Historically, the differences on the Odyssey is about 2500 price. I would expect about the same with this. I would imagine, 6 disc cd, alarm system with keyless, side air bags, moon roof?, alloys. Again, its just a guessing game til Honda releases the info.
I am trying to figure out whether to purchase and extended serivce/warranty package or not if I take the Pilot that I have "reserved".
My first Honda was a 1998 Accord EX-6 that I purchased the package for because: 1. it was the first year for the unit, 2. it was the first Honda I owned, and 3. I would have two kids in college during the time frame of ownership and I wanted a "catastrophe" insurance policy. 4. I also tend to keep cars to try to squeeze out value.
My dealer did not aggressively try to sell the package on my Accord- in fact it was the office person during "settle -up" that offered it - very low key.
At any rate I still own the car and it has been "like a rock" (really for the bow-tie folks better than "like a rock" and I have perspective there because my grandfather/father were Chevy dealers for 40 years)- obviously I have time left on the Accord so I'll see if it was more than "worry coverage" or not.
But given the quality of my Accord so far I wasn't really considering purchasing extended service on the Pilot -- especially since it had some real world testing with the Odyssey and MDX.
So - how many of you folks that are planning on getting Pilots are seriously considering the extended warranty?
Something is not quite right, From previous posts there is to be a rear camera and backup sensors as dealer installed options, And if prices have not been offically released how can they release them without honda OK? Why wouldn't you get the indash cd changer with the DVD nav, the lexus, and camry have it. What about the present ODY, how does it handle it. the MDX i believe has both so what's up...any of you who have nav and ody or MDX let us know, can you have the indash cd changer with nav
The Honda, I mean ACURA MDX has the in-dash 6-disc changer and Navi. Is the original question about the changer and Navi, or Changer and DVD Entertainment Center? Not sure about DVD IMO- it'll go the way of the Oddy, which ever way they config it. From my understanding, Navi can have a backup camera as an option. The DVD Entertainment package cannot be bundled with Navi. Can someone clarify DVD and CD-changer that has an Oddy?
I too am interested in the differences in the LX vs. EX. We know the major things like wheels, but with Oddy, does both LX and EX have tinted windows? Tinting windows in a large car is $300 bones and that's 3rd party. Something of consideration. ps. for those considering LX, Tirerack has some nice wheel/tire options (bigger and more sporty) for the MDX that would probably fit the pilot for about 900-1500. Honda wants 1000 to upgrade the wheels and not the tires, don't think so
Not sure if the Pilot will exactly mirror the configuration options of the Odyssey (more speculation), but the Odyssey is configured as follows:
LX: Radio/Cassette head unit. Dealer-installed option of an in-dash 6-CD changer OR an in-dash single CD player OR an underseat 6 CD changer. I think it would be possible to add the single CD and the underseat CD changer together, but I can't see why anybody would want to do that - not sure if the head unit could handle that configuration either. If you add anything in-dash you lose a little cubby hole.
EX/EX-L: Radio/single CD head unit. Dealer-installed options to add an in-dash 6 CD changer OR (an underseat 6 CD changer AND/OR an in-dash cassette deck). You can't have both the in-dash changer AND the in-dash cassette deck as there isn't enough space. If you add anything in-dash you lose a little cubby hole.
EX-L-RES (DVD): Radio/single CD/cassette deck head unit. No more space in the dash to add anything so you can only add an underseat 6 CD changer (dealer/self-installed). The DVD unit for entertainmnet sits lower down in the center stack, near the floor.
EX-L-NAV (Navigation): Radio/single CD head unit. I don't believe there is any space in the dash to add anything, as the Navigation screen takes up alot of space. The DVD unit for the navigation system sits under the driver seat, so you can dealer/self-install the 6 CD underseat changer under the front passenger seat.
One last note - you can also add a subwoofer under the driver or front passenger seat in any of the above models EXCEPT with the EX-L-NAV, where you only have space under the passenger seat so you have to decide between the underseat 6 CD changer and the subwoofer.
Hope this helps vis-a-vis possible configurations for the Pilot...
"You can forget about it...I don't think you will ever see a bench seat in an SUV."
My friend's 89 Bronco has one.
"People would rather have a center console"
WHAT people?
"...AND automakers rather have 2 airbags up front, not three."
Who cares what the automaker wants? Can't one or two do the whole front?
"I have noticed that most of your postings are on the board for "I don't like SUVs why do you?" If that is the case, why are you wasting your time on this board. Why not start your own...Bench seats are heaven."
Somewhat irrelevant, but I am DEFENDING suv's, not against them. Maybe you should read before commenting next time.
"Assuming it does not drive poorly, I'd still rather have a Pilot (based on what I've seen) than any American product and most other Japanese products. To get that reliability and size for under $30k is money well spent for me."
I guess you missed the XTerra, Trooper, Liberty, and Wrangler?
"I guess you missed the XTerra, Trooper, Liberty, and Wrangler? "
Anonymous, why do you keep on trolling here? The cars that you mention are exactly everything a typical Pilot buyer would not buy (rear live axle, no third row seat, rough handling).
I really don't understand why you keep on coming here. I certainly respect your right to love/drive/enjoy true offroaders, but that's obviously not what this board is about.
(on my third)Trooper owner and potential Pilot owner as a second vehicle.
No offense, but dated engine? Which part of the 3.5 liter all-aluminum, 24V DOHC, variable induction sequential MPFI, coil-over-plug, 215hp/230torque w/drive-by-wire throttle is the dated part?
The Isuzu also has a bullet-proof transmission and the AWD Borg-Warner "Torque on Demand" 4WD system with variable split torque and low-range that many auto writers think a very advanced 4X4 system. The only lacking items are locked 4WD hi-range and front limited slip differential.
Believe me, the Trooper is great in the snow and wet, as well as off-road. Granted it is "truck-like" but hey, that is its basis. With proper shocks and springs the on-road ride is great. Just leans a bit much in the turns.
The Ascender is NOT a Trooper replacement, Isuzu/GM killed the Trooper in the US (due to crush zone changes and too few sales). The Ascender is generally just GM poop (poor build quality, just look at the triplet forum). I think few will look to the Ascender if they were looking at the Trooper (sorry Isuzu you blew it IMONCO [in my of no consequence opinion]).
Although Trooper resale value is very bad, keeping the Trooper 250,000 miles shouldn't be a problem, the build quality/reliability has always been there. Also, you can get a 2002 loaded Trooper Limited 4WD (leather, sunroof, nice stereo) for about $27K ($36K list). The Honda/Acuras are great not only because of build quality and engineering, but also because of great resale value.
Your loyalty and explanations are admirable and solid, if not fiercely defensive (understandably and with no offense). Next time though, leave the acronyms out. If you have to explain them after you post them they're probably not worth the effort or impact you intend. Just my opinion.
Porknbeans
Grand High Poobah The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
"No offense, but dated engine? Which part of the 3.5 liter all-aluminum, 24V DOHC, variable induction sequential MPFI, coil-over-plug, 215hp/230torque w/drive-by-wire throttle is the dated part?"
Dated - when compared to the Acura's V-6 of the same displacement that makes 15 more lb/ft of torque at the same RPM and 25 more horsepower.
There's no argument that the Isuzu is great on the snow and whatever...the Trooper epitomizes the traditional meaning of the SUV acronym. But unfortunately, many people don't buy an SUV for that very purpose, and that's where the Trooper falls behind the other SUVs offered in that price range (including the Pilot).
And I don't know what your perception of "replacement" is, but when an automaker chooses not to redesign the vehicle and instead offer another vehicle in its place, I call that a "replacement." I think you're just trying to be too literal and engage a game of semantics.
I know that as an owner you are defending your purchase, but quite honestly, if the Trooper is as good and as solid as you said it is, it would've sold more, and Isuzu wouldn't have to rely on a GM badged SUV to take its place in the lineup.
Good and solid does not mean a vehicle will sell! I will let you think of some examples of the #1 selling vehicles in America, and how they have ended up shooting their owners in the foot :-)
Isuzu is definitely going down hill. I think they are heading that way due to GM owning 49% of the company (or is it 51%...I forget). The Ascender is not a Trooper replacement IMO, even if that is what it will be marketed as.
Good and solid actually does mean a car will sell. It won't guarantee that the car will be the #1 seller, but people will still buy it.
Look at the Subaru Forester, Nissan Pathfinder, Honda Odyssey, etc. These cars are outsold by the likes of the Escapes, Explorers, and Caravans, respectively, despite the fact that they are equally as good or even better.
However, notice that these cars are not at the bottom of the sales chart. While people don't buy them in great numbers, they certainly do sell.
tidester- We WERE talking about the Pilot, until anonymous had something else to complain about the Pilot (besides it not being a hardcore off-roader and not having a front bench seat). I countered his argument and mkaye became defensive.
Ya, I know how you single overhead cam guys feel. Got to have something to talk about. I had that before I got the DOHC.
And hey, Honda and Acura thought enough about Isuzu quality to rebadge the Rodeo as Passport and Trooper as the SLX, didn't they?
Come on, just kidding around.
The Pilot looks like it will be a great vehicle, mechanically somewhat springing forth from the Ody and MDX. I like the MDX in terms of the specs, but I prefer the more conventional styling of the Pilot. And hey, that variable valve timing is marvelous engineering. The MDX engine is smooth as silk. I'm looking forward to the release.
Living in Arizona, I've often seen vehicles in hot weather testing and the like, never did see a disguised Pilot on the road. I saw the LR Freelander several years before it was available here. Same with the VW Bug, among other vehicles.
So, along with everyone else, I'm counting the days. Although with my Trooper having AWD, there is always the redesigned Accord next year...have to wait and see.
And hey...how about those 9 beverage holders? Trooper's only got 5.
For those considering paying above MSRP for Pilot, shop around. After visiting numerous dealers in Southern California, I found one maintaining a legitimate sales list and guaranteeing sale at MSRP. There are still dealers out there who care about customer service and desire repeat customers. My shopping is done! Now the hard part, I must wait for my Pilot to arrive.
Look for dealers who have track records for selling Odyssey at MSRP. This dealer who quoted me MSRP on Pilot has also never sold an Odyssey above MSRP. Dealers who choose this customer friendly practice are proud of it and should offer Odyssey sales records to corroborate.
I saw the Pilot at the NY Autoshow. It is not an SUV folks. It's an AWD minivan.
No Low Range Gears
Puny Tires
Bloated CRV looks
Angle of approach/departure, what are those?
Skid plates what are those?
Its hard to even compare it to a Trooper which is a true truck. Try loading up the pilot with 50+ cases of soda and I think it will be crying like a little girl. Put a 5500lbs trailer on it and it will be doing the same.
Dated engine? Hmmm The Axiom which has the same engine as the trooper produces 230hp and 230lbs torque so your arguement that the pilot produces more power is pretty null.
Comfort? Lets see the Trooper has power retractable folding mirrors, I don't believe the pilot does. Infinitely VARIABLE heated seats, don't think the pilot does. Larges Moonroof of ANY, yes ANY SUV on the market. Bullet Proof reliablility in CR (which hates Isuzu to beging with) and #2 in Reliability according to JD Power and Associates for it's class behind the Toyota 4-runner. 3rd row of seats can be had through the aftermarket, besides 3 rows of seats doesn't mean 3 comfortable rows of seats. I rather have 2 rows of comfy seats rather than 3 squished rows. Heck the XL7 has 3 rows of seats but none except the front can hold full-sized adults. FWD Based engines are not known for their towing ability.
It's a shame that most of the manufacturers have had to resort to rebading mini-vans as SUVs because americans are so shallow as to not wanting to be seen in a Mini-van. Oh yeah and 8K differential fluid changes in 3 differentials is not going to be easy or cheap to have done if you drive say 15-20K miles a year. The Trooper has 20K differential changes and that is under severe use conditions.
When the pilot has 250K miles on it we'll see just how reliable they are, of course if the Oddesy tranny problems are any indication, 250K miles is not in the cards
On the Acura MDX which has the same 4wd system, the interval of differential fluid change (differential is the gears that change the direction of the driveshafts from F<->R to L<->R) is set to 8,000 miles. There are 3 of these differentials that need to be changed which is not a cheap job to get done. Normal diffy intervals are from 20K-100K depending on the vehicle.
anonymous2: I think I mentioned it before. In the US laws require a SRS for each front seat occupant. If there is a bench seat there would have to be three SRSs. More $, won't happen.
I understand there is no flip up window. Does the tailgate function as one piece and open up like on a minivan? You can't please everyone. People complain about the CR-V because the tailgate swings on the "wrong" side. But it has a flip up window.
paisan: You should start a comparo thread. That's where differences should be discussed.
Let's just say they're are two completely different vehicles. Trying to say that one is an SUV and other isn't is an exercise in semantics.
Actually, I'm told that Honda went to Isuzu because their partnership with Rover fell apart. For a short time, Honda rebadged the Discovery over in Europe. (That decision should tell you something about Honda's perception of quality.)
CR was found guilty in over 1/2 the counts in the case with Isuzu. The only counts it was not found guilty at the time of was that it destroyed Isuzus reputation, but it was found guilty of a faulty test. So let's not get into that.
I agree the waters have been muddied as to what a true SUV is because of the US ego...
Any comparisons anywhere because people might get upset if whatever vehicle is being discussed is better than theirs. I'm sure if someone brought up a vehicle that was outclassed by a Pilot it wouldn't be a problem....
Comments
A bit off topic here but, I believe that a sunroof should be an STAND ALONE option on any car you could purchase, including the Pilot. That way, anyone who likes that feature on their car could get it. However, I don't think that sunroof should be a STANDARD feature on any vehicle or a required "feature" in order to get another option. There are a lot of features on some vehicles that I would enjoy having in my car but in order to get them they are packaged with a sunroof. Sorry for the slightly off topic rant but the "sunroof" issue is a sore spot for me.
As for your desire to have the sunroof removed. I'm not sure how that request would be handled.
I agree with spyponder, I would take a flip up rear window any day over a moonroof.
This guy has got to be blowing smoke. No way he has those numbers before anyone else.
As far as moonroofs go, I've got one in my Acura Integra and it's open from May until October unless it's raining. It's not a requirement on my Pilot, but it sure would be great to have. To each their own on options.....
Thanks in advance
I never brought from them due to price.
Please keep in mind that Honda releases pricing about two weeks from initial roll out.
Jerry
I put a refundable deposit on an EX (silver) today. The salesman just got a list of the 6 they're expecting, with no more info than the models, color, and production dates. He said delivery probably would be about 2 weeks later. It looks like they are going to try to get $3000 over MSRP, but we don't intend to pay that much. Anyway, we weren't obligated to talk price today, and I figured I had nothing to lose by reserving this one and then waiting for the rest of the dealers in my area to get more info. None of the other ones even want to take deposits...
Jerry
My first Honda was a 1998 Accord EX-6 that I purchased the package for because: 1. it was the first year for the unit, 2. it was the first Honda I owned, and 3. I would have two kids in college during the time frame of ownership and I wanted a "catastrophe" insurance policy. 4. I also tend to keep cars to try to squeeze out value.
My dealer did not aggressively try to sell the package on my Accord- in fact it was the office person during "settle -up" that offered it - very low key.
At any rate I still own the car and it has been "like a rock" (really for the bow-tie folks better than "like a rock" and I have perspective there because my grandfather/father were Chevy dealers for 40 years)- obviously I have time left on the Accord so I'll see if it was more than "worry coverage" or not.
But given the quality of my Accord so far I wasn't really considering purchasing extended service on the Pilot -- especially since it had some real world testing with the Odyssey and MDX.
So - how many of you folks that are planning on getting Pilots are seriously considering the extended warranty?
thanks
Jerry
ps. for those considering LX, Tirerack has some nice wheel/tire options (bigger and more sporty) for the MDX that would probably fit the pilot for about 900-1500. Honda wants 1000 to upgrade the wheels and not the tires, don't think so
LX: Radio/Cassette head unit. Dealer-installed option of an in-dash 6-CD changer OR an in-dash single CD player OR an underseat 6 CD changer. I think it would be possible to add the single CD and the underseat CD changer together, but I can't see why anybody would want to do that - not sure if the head unit could handle that configuration either. If you add anything in-dash you lose a little cubby hole.
EX/EX-L: Radio/single CD head unit. Dealer-installed options to add an in-dash 6 CD changer OR (an underseat 6 CD changer AND/OR an in-dash cassette deck). You can't have both the in-dash changer AND the in-dash cassette deck as there isn't enough space. If you add anything in-dash you lose a little cubby hole.
EX-L-RES (DVD): Radio/single CD/cassette deck head unit. No more space in the dash to add anything so you can only add an underseat 6 CD changer (dealer/self-installed). The DVD unit for entertainmnet sits lower down in the center stack, near the floor.
EX-L-NAV (Navigation): Radio/single CD head unit. I don't believe there is any space in the dash to add anything, as the Navigation screen takes up alot of space. The DVD unit for the navigation system sits under the driver seat, so you can dealer/self-install the 6 CD underseat changer under the front passenger seat.
One last note - you can also add a subwoofer under the driver or front passenger seat in any of the above models EXCEPT with the EX-L-NAV, where you only have space under the passenger seat so you have to decide between the underseat 6 CD changer and the subwoofer.
Hope this helps vis-a-vis possible configurations for the Pilot...
"You can forget about it...I don't think you will ever see a bench seat in an SUV."
My friend's 89 Bronco has one.
"People would rather have a center console"
WHAT people?
"...AND automakers rather have 2 airbags up front, not three."
Who cares what the automaker wants? Can't one or two do the whole front?
"I have noticed that most of your postings are on the board for "I don't like SUVs why do you?" If that is the case, why are you wasting your time on this board. Why not start your own...Bench seats are heaven."
Somewhat irrelevant, but I am DEFENDING suv's, not against them. Maybe you should read before commenting next time.
I guess you missed the XTerra, Trooper, Liberty, and Wrangler?
Anonymous, why do you keep on trolling here? The cars that you mention are exactly everything a typical Pilot buyer would not buy (rear live axle, no third row seat, rough handling).
I really don't understand why you keep on coming here. I certainly respect your right to love/drive/enjoy true offroaders, but that's obviously not what this board is about.
(on my third)Trooper owner and potential Pilot owner as a second vehicle.
No offense, but dated engine? Which part of the 3.5 liter all-aluminum, 24V DOHC, variable induction sequential MPFI, coil-over-plug, 215hp/230torque w/drive-by-wire throttle is the dated part?
The Isuzu also has a bullet-proof transmission and the AWD Borg-Warner "Torque on Demand" 4WD system with variable split torque and low-range that many auto writers think a very advanced 4X4 system. The only lacking items are locked 4WD hi-range and front limited slip differential.
Believe me, the Trooper is great in the snow and wet, as well as off-road. Granted it is "truck-like" but hey, that is its basis. With proper shocks and springs the on-road ride is great. Just leans a bit much in the turns.
The Ascender is NOT a Trooper replacement, Isuzu/GM killed the Trooper in the US (due to crush zone changes and too few sales). The Ascender is generally just GM poop (poor build quality, just look at the triplet forum). I think few will look to the Ascender if they were looking at the Trooper (sorry Isuzu you blew it IMONCO [in my of no consequence opinion]).
Although Trooper resale value is very bad, keeping the Trooper 250,000 miles shouldn't be a problem, the build quality/reliability has always been there. Also, you can get a 2002 loaded Trooper Limited 4WD (leather, sunroof, nice stereo) for about $27K ($36K list). The Honda/Acuras are great not only because of build quality and engineering, but also because of great resale value.
MAK, AOFLTO, "an obviously fiercely loyal Trooper owner"
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
Dated - when compared to the Acura's V-6 of the same displacement that makes 15 more lb/ft of torque at the same RPM and 25 more horsepower.
There's no argument that the Isuzu is great on the snow and whatever...the Trooper epitomizes the traditional meaning of the SUV acronym. But unfortunately, many people don't buy an SUV for that very purpose, and that's where the Trooper falls behind the other SUVs offered in that price range (including the Pilot).
And I don't know what your perception of "replacement" is, but when an automaker chooses not to redesign the vehicle and instead offer another vehicle in its place, I call that a "replacement." I think you're just trying to be too literal and engage a game of semantics.
I know that as an owner you are defending your purchase, but quite honestly, if the Trooper is as good and as solid as you said it is, it would've sold more, and Isuzu wouldn't have to rely on a GM badged SUV to take its place in the lineup.
Isuzu is definitely going down hill. I think they are heading that way due to GM owning 49% of the company (or is it 51%...I forget). The Ascender is not a Trooper replacement IMO, even if that is what it will be marketed as.
tidester
Host
SUVs
Look at the Subaru Forester, Nissan Pathfinder, Honda Odyssey, etc. These cars are outsold by the likes of the Escapes, Explorers, and Caravans, respectively, despite the fact that they are equally as good or even better.
However, notice that these cars are not at the bottom of the sales chart. While people don't buy them in great numbers, they certainly do sell.
tidester- We WERE talking about the Pilot, until anonymous had something else to complain about the Pilot (besides it not being a hardcore off-roader and not having a front bench seat). I countered his argument and mkaye became defensive.
And hey, Honda and Acura thought enough about Isuzu quality to rebadge the Rodeo as Passport and Trooper as the SLX, didn't they?
Come on, just kidding around.
The Pilot looks like it will be a great vehicle, mechanically somewhat springing forth from the Ody and MDX. I like the MDX in terms of the specs, but I prefer the more conventional styling of the Pilot. And hey, that variable valve timing is marvelous engineering. The MDX engine is smooth as silk. I'm looking forward to the release.
Living in Arizona, I've often seen vehicles in hot weather testing and the like, never did see a disguised Pilot on the road. I saw the LR Freelander several years before it was available here. Same with the VW Bug, among other vehicles.
So, along with everyone else, I'm counting the days. Although with my Trooper having AWD, there is always the redesigned Accord next year...have to wait and see.
And hey...how about those 9 beverage holders? Trooper's only got 5.
No Low Range Gears
Puny Tires
Bloated CRV looks
Angle of approach/departure, what are those?
Skid plates what are those?
Its hard to even compare it to a Trooper which is a true truck. Try loading up the pilot with 50+ cases of soda and I think it will be crying like a little girl. Put a 5500lbs trailer on it and it will be doing the same.
Dated engine? Hmmm The Axiom which has the same engine as the trooper produces 230hp and 230lbs torque so your arguement that the pilot produces more power is pretty null.
Comfort? Lets see the Trooper has power retractable folding mirrors, I don't believe the pilot does. Infinitely VARIABLE heated seats, don't think the pilot does. Larges Moonroof of ANY, yes ANY SUV on the market. Bullet Proof reliablility in CR (which hates Isuzu to beging with) and #2 in Reliability according to JD Power and Associates for it's class behind the Toyota 4-runner. 3rd row of seats can be had through the aftermarket, besides 3 rows of seats doesn't mean 3 comfortable rows of seats. I rather have 2 rows of comfy seats rather than 3 squished rows. Heck the XL7 has 3 rows of seats but none except the front can hold full-sized adults. FWD Based engines are not known for their towing ability.
It's a shame that most of the manufacturers have had to resort to rebading mini-vans as SUVs because americans are so shallow as to not wanting to be seen in a Mini-van. Oh yeah and 8K differential fluid changes in 3 differentials is not going to be easy or cheap to have done if you drive say 15-20K miles a year. The Trooper has 20K differential changes and that is under severe use conditions.
When the pilot has 250K miles on it we'll see just how reliable they are, of course if the Oddesy tranny problems are any indication, 250K miles is not in the cards
-mike
http://isuzu-suvs.com
-mike
I understand there is no flip up window. Does the tailgate function as one piece and open up like on a minivan? You can't please everyone. People complain about the CR-V because the tailgate swings on the "wrong" side. But it has a flip up window.
paisan: You should start a comparo thread. That's where differences should be discussed.
Let's just say they're are two completely different vehicles. Trying to say that one is an SUV and other isn't is an exercise in semantics.
Actually, I'm told that Honda went to Isuzu because their partnership with Rover fell apart. For a short time, Honda rebadged the Discovery over in Europe. (That decision should tell you something about Honda's perception of quality.)
I agree the waters have been muddied as to what a true SUV is because of the US ego...
-mike
I am not sure what you mean by "trolling".
"The cars that you mention are exactly everything a typical Pilot buyer would not buy (rear live axle, no third row seat, rough handling)."
Really? What about price range, size, and appointments?
"I really don't understand why you keep on coming here."
Because I like Honda quality, and am interested in the upcoming Pilot?
"I certainly respect your right to love/drive/enjoy true offroaders, but that's obviously not what this board is about."
No? Says you? I thought this was about discussing SUV's and Pilots in particular (here).
Aren't comparisons a healthy part of discussion? Especially since the real thing is not out yet?
Perhaps it is the Pilot which is in the wrong forum!
LOL!
-mike