The fit and finish on this car is EXCELLENT. Joints are very small and even.
The color Havasu Blue is not a bad color at all with this car.
The stereo ROCKS on the EX, 7 speakers, 155 watts and subwoofer as standard.
The interior is roomy, with the exception of the third row for extended driving. I sat in this row for a bit and it wasn't bad, I wouldn't want to be stuck in there for an extended time though.
The VTM-4 4wheel drive system is great!
The design of this car will be 5 star safety. Honda is PAYING to have this car tested quickly. Go to http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testing/ncap/ to see results on other SUV's...especially rollover comparisons.
WHO CARES THAT THE ODY AND HONDA ARE SISTERS GET OFF THAT TRACK. HONDA IS ADRESSING THE NEEDS OF THE MARKET AND THE MARKET WILL DETERMINE IT'S SUCCESS OR LACK OF.... We had the negative vibes when we talked about transfer case and not "true" 4wd,vs awd
My suggestion to the "neg vibe people" add to the substantive discussion of this vehicle or move on to other boards, the personal insults are beneath this forum and please move on to another location that might entertain you better.
I like the pilot it's my #1 choice so long as the hype and reality are the same, knowing honda it will be a smash hit, it's got 1/2 inch less ground clearence than an explorer and it's considered a true off roader... who care i want a system in place that prevents my wife and new baby from unintentional "offroading" OK
Jerry has driven the Pilot and had a chance to carefully examine the vehicle in person. At this point he's miles ahead of most of us on this Board. There is no reason to believe that he's not giving us the straight goods.
SUV "Sport Utility Vehicle" I think the Pilot qualifies. AWD Minivan - I believe Chrysler makes a Caravan with this label. Paisan, I understand where you're coming from. The Pilot is made on the same chassis as the Odyssey, so it's not designed to do things a "traditional" SUV was made for. Perhaps they need to have 2 categories for SUV's: "Family SUV" and a "Hard Core SUV". Companies have identified a demand for this type of vehicle, Honda appears to have hit a home run.
jmurman42: Looking for more comments on the seating. You say the 3rd row seat wasn't that bad. Last week Varmint posted a picture of "spy guy" who is 6'1", in the 3rd row seat. He didn't look very comfortable, not to mention that the headrest only came up to his should blade. Also, his head is about 2-3" from the back window. I understand the 2nd row and 3rd row seats are the same height. It appears this vehicle is not friendly for those over 5'6" unless you don't care about whiplash. I like this vehicle, but the items mentioned above, and the minimal amount of storage behind the 3rd row has steered me away. I think I'm going full size. (Toyota Sequoia)
If you want true 4wd performance I would avoid the big trucks like the Sequia and go with a small truck like the Wrangler or Xterra. These are true 4wd vehicles like the seqoia BUT they have a much better turning radius for the off roads!!!
Trucks: Wrangler, Cherokee, Expedition, Land Cruiser, Sequoia, 4Runner, Xterra and Pathfinder to name a few.
SUV: CRV, Rav4, Pilot, Highlander, RX300, Santa Fe, Escape to name a few.
This is a common sense way of catergorizing, I think. Agree???
I think everyone still wants to hear the pros and cons, just do it in a civilized manner! Whether we like it or not, "SUV" is a generic marketing label and the category has become fragmented into both extremes...because that's what the market is demanding.
Personally, I really like the Jeep Grand Cherokee that I now drive, but I've come to hate the waiting room at my local 5-star dealer (been there way too often over the past 3 years!). When it's not in the shop, my Jeep has taken me thru all the mud and snow that NH has thrown at me with no problem. However, I'm willing to bet that the Pilot can do just as well (for my needs), and I won't be on a first-name basis with the service rep! I don't need something that will conquer the Rubicon...just something robust enough to handle the less than ideal road/weather conditions up here, with reliability to boot.
Maybe this will provide an interesting angle. I have a 2000 Ody EX and have been very happy with it. Not only does it work well in our family - It travels, tows, holds all the stuff for home improvements, etc. - the resale value is terrific, and makes me want to hold onto it even more.
We also have a 1998 Honda Accord which has been highly reliable, but I'm kind of bored with it and tired of switching with my wife when I want to take my bike somewhere or take that trip to Home Depot. We're first in line for a Pilot EX at MSRP, due for delivery the first week of June. I'm looking forward to AWD, the room, the ride, and repeating the resale success we've had with the ODY. Thanks for all your postings - especially the ones that add specific comparison information - it has helped me make my decision and has helped ease the wait.
I forgot to make my basic point that I think these vehicles are different enough to have both. It would be kind of goofy to have 2 Ody's in my mind. Also, I like having the peace of mind that these are very safe vehicles.
Diploid - Standard moonroof. There's your loss of headroom.
Pilot is an Ody, and the Ody is an Accord, and the Accord is...
Being based on the same "platform" as another vehicle does not mean what many people assume it means. For example, someone above used the word "chassis". To me, that implies that they use the same frame. Couldn't be farther from the truth. They don't build these vehicles like they used to. Older SUVs may use the same rails as a pickup truck, but that kind of engineering doesn't work with a unit body. There are a number of structural and design differnces that separate the Ody and the MDX. I'm sure they apply to the Pilot as well.
Kinnman - I've joking around about it, but I thought it was pretty obvious that I AM the "spy guy". I thought that the third row seat was adequate. There's little foot room, but legroom is what I expected. As someone else described it, this is a 5+3 seater, not a minivan. Also the pic has the rear gate wide open. I'm not sure how you could tell that my head was inches away from the glass.
<<How do you classify them as "trucks"? They have uni-body and are not built on a truck chassis?>>
A truck has a ladder type frame. Very stiff and very "truck like"
Honda has designed the Pilot with the uni body, that has 8 steel cross members AND 4 extra roof bars, not including the A, B, C, or D pillars. When you look at the "naked view of the Pilot you'll see that it is and EXCELLENT design.
Now, Honda's view is that 99% of the people that drive SUV's, DO NOT go offroading. They are not marketing this car to the 1% that is interested in a 35" tire/roll bar/mega whooptie vehicle. They ARE marketing this car to the 35-40yo, 70-90K annual income person WITH a family, that WANTS to have the option to go places that they normally can't or wouldn't go with a car. But wants to have a SAFE SUV, that is Honda reliable and a BLAST to drive. The Pilot is all of that.
We drove the best that Ford had $38,000 MSRP, Chevy Trailblazer $33,000 MSRP and the Toyota Highlander $35,000 MSRP. The Pilots response times in HARD cornering, acceleration, braking etc were ALL superior. Believe me we drove these cars HARD!
I am 5'10" and weigh...well, lets just say that beer and pasta have caught up with me...:-)
My legs were almost to the seat back of the second row. Thats why I said that it would be uncomfortable for me to have an extended ride in the back. That being said, I have come to the conclusion that if you have 8 people, then you''ll need to go to the Excursion type sized vehicle. If on the other hand, you have smaller children that are out the car seats, the 3rd row will do fine.
Personally, when my wife and I get ours...we will have the 3rd row down for most of the time. We carry alot of "stuff" with our 1yo daughter.
You are right, that most people want such a vehicle. The problem is that an AWD mini-van would suit their needs EVEN BETTER, while getting better milage, holding more people comfortably etc. etc. I'm the first to agree that most people won't use em as the traditional SUVs are used. It's the shallow Americans who don't want to be caught dead in a "mini-van" have caused them to compromise actual utility.
Thanks for all your insights Jerry. As I said earlier you are one of the few people on the Board who can support your comments with hands on experience.
You are also right on with your comments with regard to the 3rd row of seats. Anyone who regularly has to transport more than 6 "full-sized" adults cannot expect to do it in a Pilot. You need a much larger vehicle than this to do that. It's a case of simple physical dimensions.
Like you, we expect to have that 3rd row down most of the time giving us lots to room to transport our kid's hockey gear, etc. However, for those occassions when we need the extra seating, it will be there.
Paisan, how many manuafacturers offer AWD mini-vans?
We used to have a '91 4WD Toyota Previa with a 5-speed but Toyota did not offer this option with the Sienna. I don't believe that Honda offers it on the Odyssey.
The key question is going to be, can you lock the second row in a slightly forward position to provide more leg room for the third row (at the expense of leg room for the second row)?
With the MDX, the 40% portion of the second row that slides forward for access to the third row can stay locked in a slid-forward position.
With the Pilot, both the 60% and the 40% portion can slide forward. The key is whether they can stay slid-forward and (safely) lock.
Yep, a lot of folks who want some level of AWD/4WD would buy an AWD minivan _IF_ a good choice was available. To date the most common choice has been the Chrysler AWD minivans. Unfortunately they've tended to be unreliable and have not done well in crash tests. Someone looking at a Toyota or Honda SUV isn't going to go for that.
Thus a lot of folks who want the AWD go the SUV route. AWD wagons are too small for their needs.
If there was an AWD Sienna or an AWD Odyssey, I think we would bought it because it probably would have been a better value. It is quite true that some folks still wouldn't go for the AWD minivan because of the image thing. However, I don't think those folks are "shallow." Everyone's got a buying preference. Much of an automotive purchase is as much emotional as it is practical. That's life, time for some folks to get over it.
Catch-22. The manufacturers know that AWD minivans could hurt their SUV sales, and know some customers want an SUV image. Customers buy SUV's, and manufacturers aren't incented to make AWD minivans.
Interesting how the 1% can call the 99% shallow...oh well...
Hey if this SUV (that's Sport Utility Vehicle...Correct?) can take my family of 4 (+ dog + all our stuff) to Tahoe safely in a snow storm...Pull my 20' Ski Boat...Take me to that campsite in the back country and hall around all of our sporting gear in this type of comfort then I'm all for calling it an SUV... I'm not sure I'd spend $30 grand on a vehicle to run on a motocross circuit (particularily when $5k is tied up in the stereo, Leather and DVD Entertainment System ).
And my neighbors w/ the Izuzu Trooper next door says his SUV makes a great minivan for them too
I sat in the rear of an MDX, my head was inches from the glass. Maybe not 2-3", perhaps 6", regardless, with such a low back, it is a concern - I do plan to haul 6 adults from time to time. Lot of comments on the leg room, but no-one has mentioned anything more about the low backs. It reminds me of the rear seat in a Jeep Cherokee Sport - good for kids, but a whiplash special for Adults. And for those who say, "I only plan to use the 3rd row on a rare occasion", well the 2nd & 3rd row are the same height. I've seen a comment that Honda did this to improve rear visability. Anyone else out there concerned? Like I mentioned before, I was very excited about the Pilot and was set on purchasing one, now I'm reconsidering. Times running out - 3 months left on my Pathfinder lease.
Why? Is there something wrong with the 2nd and 3rd row having the same height?
Judging from the MDX's 3rd row, the bench has a good seat height (at least for a child), unlike those of, say, a Tahoe where an adult can sit back there, but with his knees to his chest since the seat height is low.
We had the same dilemma - my wife insisted on seating for 7 (don't ask me why, we have a 15month old). I insisted on the 4wd, to go skiing to Tahoe, without messing around with chains etc in routine "R1" conditions.
As far as I could tell, the only AWD/4WD minivans available were the Chryslers and GMs (Venture/Montana/Silhouette) none of which have good reliability ratings. If the Odyssey came with 4wd that would have been at the top of the list.
Given the way the MDX & Ody dealers in CA are behaving the markup on Pilots will be $3-$5K over MSRP for the next year or more.
We'll probably end up with a Chevy Trailblazer EXT or GMC Envoy XL. Both have 7 seater capacity and a decent amount of 3rd row legroom and space behind so passengers' heads don't hit the rear windshield (which is how I eliminated the Rendezvous). $34-$35K fully loaded with leather, 8 way power front seats, DVD, Bose 6CD changer, 270 HP engine, separate dr/pass/rear climate controls, 1 year free Onstar!
Can't believe we're becoming an all GM family (the other vehicle's a Saab)!
Yes a regular sized spare will fit. One will be available as an DIO. Interestingly enough, the spare is located under the vehicle at the rear of the car. Honda has given enough cable for the spare to be lowered to the ground and then you can move the car forward to remove the spare. I though that was a nice touch.
For those interested in AWD Minivan, look at the Sienna board. Some Toyota folks said the redesigned Sienna Minivan (due early in 03) will have the optional AWD, new bigger engine, split and fold-away 3rd row seat, side air-bag on ALL 3 rows, second seats can slide together like the current Odys, roll-down second-row windows like the MVP, etc.
Kinnman - No problem. You're probably right about the distance to the glass. I'd estimate about 6-8". And the seatback in the third row is low. However, you have to take into account the fact that I'm 6'1".
The second row was perfectly fine. I believe Honda engineered the three rows with "stadium seating". The seat cushion in the second row is higher than the first and the third is higher than the second. It's likely that they didn't have any choice in the matter and it was designed this way to make room for the VTM4 differential.
My only concern with the second row is the smallish head rests. They extend up high enough for a tall adult, but how often do people remember to adjust their headrest when getting into a car? Most of the time, they be pushed all the way down for better visibility.
Read over Car & Drivers report on the Pilot, again. One thing I noticed on fuel economy that C&D observed fuel economy was 15 mpg on their test. EPA ratings are 22 hwy and 17 city. Hope this was a fluke, because of it being new and the way it was driven. Still thought it should have been better.
Don't give up on buying at MSRP, it is available on the Pilot in most parts of the country if you shop around. Even if you pay a premium, you'll pay less than $35,000, and get a reliable and safe vehicle.
Dmetzger - The observed fuel economy often includes the time they spend at the track. When you spend a day flooring the vehicle, trying to get top acceleration, fuel efficiency will plummet. You also have to take into account driving styles. Each time a reviewer gets into the vehicle, the first thing say is, "let's see what this baby can do..."
If you compare observed mpg with other cars/trucks, you'll find that the same is true.
"We'll probably end up with a Chevy Trailblazer EXT or GMC Envoy XL. Both have 7 seater capacity and a decent amount of 3rd row legroom and space behind so passengers' heads don't hit the rear windshield ..."
They do have some nice attributes. Since you're obviously concerned with safety, also please consider the "marginal" IIHS crash test scores of the short versions of the two vehicles. I don't know if the larger versions will do any better.
Agreed that the Pilot will be tight for the third row. That possible AWD version of the next-gen Sienna sounds very interesting. I don't know how the Ford Explorer is like with the third row seating? If you go full-size (and more money), the Toyota Sequoia is a very solid option.
For what it's worth, Acura claims that the MDX is designed to withstand a 35mph rear-end collision without intrusion to the third row. That should extend to the Pilot. They have extensively crash-tested the vehicle during their development, and not every manufacturer can or is willing to make this claim.
The latter usually falls short of the former in the "real world." The Pilot won't be an exception, judging from the MDX's numbers. The MDX is rated at 17/23, but driving around at 70mph, going about town, etc. is usually going to yield lower.
MPG improves very slightly after a thousand miles or so.
I think they do it w/o an wind resistance, so for larger frontal area vehicles like SUVs/Vans/Minivans etc the actual v. EPA are usually more distorted than on a lower profile vehicle. Driving style makes a world of difference too. In my Trooper I can get 21mpg on the highway if I cruise at 55-60mph, but at my usual 77mph, I get about 17max.
If you do not know yet, the Toyota 4-Runner is being redesigned for 2003. It is going to be bigger. Suppose to offer a 245 hp 4.0 v6 and V8. Will be on a ladder type frame as the exiting model is. But a third row seat will not be offered at startup, supposedly. Maybe an option later.
Will be interesting to see how they compare. Competition is always nice to have for the consumer.
Given the number of Bay Area dealers intending to mark up the Pilot over MSRP, we're wondering whether it would make sense to drive to Oregon or Nevada to save a few thousand bucks. I'm pretty sure the DMV extracts some sort of penalty for out-of-state auto purchases (to recoup lost sales tax) but does anyone know if Pilots sold in California will meet emission/smog controls that those sold elsewhere lack and that the state will require to be installed? Tried the DMV but their question line is (surprise surprise) perpetually busy. Thanks.
Generally cars sold in the NY/NJ/PA area are CA compliant cars. I think it costs about $400 to have a car shipped coast to coast so that might be an option. And NY will collect CA salestax for you as well.
the Kia Sorrento, Volvo Xc90, Buick, (rebadged Bravada), Mercury Aviator, and the Nissan Murano. I hope this competition will help with reduction in prices. I like the Pilot, but i refuse to pay MSRP for a vehicle. I'll try to wait an see if the competition is worthy for a look. I do not want to regret on making a mistake.
When you buy out of state, you don't pay sales tax until you title the car in your state at your rate. You will have to pay for a Temp Tag that give you 30 days to complete this transaction, usaully about $30. So figure on paying cash at your local DMV for Tax and Title and subtract it if you figured this into your pricing an out of state purchase. There's no "transfering Sales Tax" concept between states or counties for that matter. When I was in Cleveland 2 years ago, they were giving $500 off on Oddys, yes a rebate, or they would ship cross country for free and you pay MSRP. You may try to call around the Cleveland area (quite a few dealers). Heights and Sunny Honda did this. Heights Zip was 44121. Hope this helps ya'll from Cali
In NYS when you buy a car you pay the sales tax of the state or county within NYS that you will be registering the vehicle. I know this for a fact cause I have friends from other states that have bought in NYS before and brought the car to other states, and I bought my car in a different county than where it was to be registered.
That certainly is an arbitrary (and ...well I'll stop there to be nice) policy. What you're saying is that if Honda set the MSRP at $28,000 and forced you to haggle down to the $26,000 fair price (which you'll get without haggling with their current pricing policy) you'd be happy?
The only important factor is whether or not the final price is a fair price, not where you started the negotiation.
According to Edmunds, the MDX at MSRP is selling at a discount to true market value. I expect the Pilot MSRP to reflect the same great value and appreciate Honda setting a bargain price up front.
There is no longer a penalty for registering an out-of-state car in California. There used to be a $300 smog fee, but that penalty was challenged in court and the state had to mail a refund check (including interest) to buyers who were victims of the state racket. I know because I did receive such a check (last year or in 2000, can't remember).
Purchasing cross country might be a good idea. Or you can maybe find a dealer in Vegas, fly down there, have a good time and drive back home. Just a thought...
I am curious about future competition. Do any offer seating 7+ for below $30,000 with comparable reliability and safety records? I'm not aware of any (unless you count a used MDX in the comparison).
I assume the 4Runner will be higher, and know the Volvo will start at $35,000. I'm not familiar with the Nissan Murano. Is it the "futuristic" looking vehicle?
Comments
The color Havasu Blue is not a bad color at all with this car.
The stereo ROCKS on the EX, 7 speakers, 155 watts and subwoofer as standard.
The interior is roomy, with the exception of the third row for extended driving. I sat in this row for a bit and it wasn't bad, I wouldn't want to be stuck in there for an extended time though.
The VTM-4 4wheel drive system is great!
The design of this car will be 5 star safety. Honda is PAYING to have this car tested quickly. Go to http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testing/ncap/ to see results on other SUV's...especially rollover comparisons.
Jerry
-mike
We had the negative vibes when we talked about transfer case and not "true" 4wd,vs awd
My suggestion to the "neg vibe people" add to the substantive discussion of this vehicle or move on to other boards, the personal insults are beneath this forum and please move on to another location that might entertain you better.
I like the pilot it's my #1 choice so long as the hype and reality are the same, knowing honda it will be a smash hit, it's got 1/2 inch less ground clearence than an explorer and it's considered a true off roader... who care i want a system in place that prevents my wife and new baby from unintentional "offroading" OK
MORE SUBSTANCE PLEASE!!!!
Because one is an SUV and the other is a sedan.
That's what jmurman was implying with the difference between an Odyssey and an MDX. It has nothing to do with intelligence.
Paisan, I understand where you're coming from. The Pilot is made on the same chassis as the Odyssey, so it's not designed to do things a "traditional" SUV was made for. Perhaps they need to have 2 categories for SUV's: "Family SUV" and a "Hard Core SUV". Companies have identified a demand for this type of vehicle, Honda appears to have hit a home run.
jmurman42: Looking for more comments on the seating. You say the 3rd row seat wasn't that bad. Last week Varmint posted a picture of "spy guy" who is 6'1", in the 3rd row seat. He didn't look very comfortable, not to mention that the headrest only came up to his should blade. Also, his head is about 2-3" from the back window. I understand the 2nd row and 3rd row seats are the same height. It appears this vehicle is not friendly for those over 5'6" unless you don't care about whiplash. I like this vehicle, but the items mentioned above, and the minimal amount of storage behind the 3rd row has steered me away. I think I'm going full size. (Toyota Sequoia)
Can you confirm/deny the color combinations (interior/exterior) that have been unofficially posted?
(http://www.collegehillshonda.com/news/320022.htm)
Also, did you hear/see anything about the Sagebrush?
Thank you very much.
The Pilot is a SUV.
If you want true 4wd performance I would avoid the big trucks like the Sequia and go with a small truck like the Wrangler or Xterra. These are true 4wd vehicles like the seqoia BUT they have a much better turning radius for the off roads!!!
Trucks:
Wrangler, Cherokee, Expedition, Land Cruiser, Sequoia, 4Runner, Xterra and Pathfinder to name a few.
SUV:
CRV, Rav4, Pilot, Highlander, RX300, Santa Fe, Escape to name a few.
This is a common sense way of catergorizing, I think. Agree???
But we aren't allowed to talk about anything other than the Pilot in here!
-mike
Personally, I really like the Jeep Grand Cherokee that I now drive, but I've come to hate the waiting room at my local 5-star dealer (been there way too often over the past 3 years!). When it's not in the shop, my Jeep has taken me thru all the mud and snow that NH has thrown at me with no problem. However, I'm willing to bet that the Pilot can do just as well (for my needs), and I won't be on a first-name basis with the service rep! I don't need something that will conquer the Rubicon...just something robust enough to handle the less than ideal road/weather conditions up here, with reliability to boot.
Just my 2cents!
Thanks.
tidester
Host
SUVs
We also have a 1998 Honda Accord which has been highly reliable, but I'm kind of bored with it and tired of switching with my wife when I want to take my bike somewhere or take that trip to Home Depot. We're first in line for a Pilot EX at MSRP, due for delivery the first week of June. I'm looking forward to AWD, the room, the ride, and repeating the resale success we've had with the ODY. Thanks for all your postings - especially the ones that add specific comparison information - it has helped me make my decision and has helped ease the wait.
Pilot is an Ody, and the Ody is an Accord, and the Accord is...
Being based on the same "platform" as another vehicle does not mean what many people assume it means. For example, someone above used the word "chassis". To me, that implies that they use the same frame. Couldn't be farther from the truth. They don't build these vehicles like they used to. Older SUVs may use the same rails as a pickup truck, but that kind of engineering doesn't work with a unit body. There are a number of structural and design differnces that separate the Ody and the MDX. I'm sure they apply to the Pilot as well.
Kinnman - I've joking around about it, but I thought it was pretty obvious that I AM the "spy guy". I thought that the third row seat was adequate. There's little foot room, but legroom is what I expected. As someone else described it, this is a 5+3 seater, not a minivan. Also the pic has the rear gate wide open. I'm not sure how you could tell that my head was inches away from the glass.
A truck has a ladder type frame. Very stiff and very "truck like"
Honda has designed the Pilot with the uni body, that has 8 steel cross members AND 4 extra roof bars, not including the A, B, C, or D pillars. When you look at the "naked view of the Pilot you'll see that it is and EXCELLENT design.
Now, Honda's view is that 99% of the people that drive SUV's, DO NOT go offroading. They are not marketing this car to the 1% that is interested in a 35" tire/roll bar/mega whooptie vehicle. They ARE marketing this car to the 35-40yo, 70-90K annual income person WITH a family, that WANTS to have the option to go places that they normally can't or wouldn't go with a car. But wants to have a SAFE SUV, that is Honda reliable and a BLAST to drive. The Pilot is all of that.
We drove the best that Ford had $38,000 MSRP, Chevy Trailblazer $33,000 MSRP and the Toyota Highlander $35,000 MSRP. The Pilots response times in HARD cornering, acceleration, braking etc were ALL superior. Believe me we drove these cars HARD!
Jerry
My legs were almost to the seat back of the second row. Thats why I said that it would be uncomfortable for me to have an extended ride in the back. That being said, I have come to the conclusion that if you have 8 people, then you''ll need to go to the Excursion type sized vehicle. If on the other hand, you have smaller children that are out the car seats, the 3rd row will do fine.
Personally, when my wife and I get ours...we will have the 3rd row down for most of the time. We carry alot of "stuff" with our 1yo daughter.
Jerry
-mike
You are also right on with your comments with regard to the 3rd row of seats. Anyone who regularly has to transport more than 6 "full-sized" adults cannot expect to do it in a Pilot. You need a much larger vehicle than this to do that. It's a case of simple physical dimensions.
Like you, we expect to have that 3rd row down most of the time giving us lots to room to transport our kid's hockey gear, etc. However, for those occassions when we need the extra seating, it will be there.
We used to have a '91 4WD Toyota Previa with a 5-speed but Toyota did not offer this option with the Sienna. I don't believe that Honda offers it on the Odyssey.
With the MDX, the 40% portion of the second row that slides forward for access to the third row can stay locked in a slid-forward position.
With the Pilot, both the 60% and the 40% portion can slide forward. The key is whether they can stay slid-forward and (safely) lock.
Someone needs to try it with a real Pilot.
Thus a lot of folks who want the AWD go the SUV route. AWD wagons are too small for their needs.
If there was an AWD Sienna or an AWD Odyssey, I think we would bought it because it probably would have been a better value. It is quite true that some folks still wouldn't go for the AWD minivan because of the image thing. However, I don't think those folks are "shallow." Everyone's got a buying preference. Much of an automotive purchase is as much emotional as it is practical. That's life, time for some folks to get over it.
Catch-22. The manufacturers know that AWD minivans could hurt their SUV sales, and know some customers want an SUV image. Customers buy SUV's, and manufacturers aren't incented to make AWD minivans.
Hey if this SUV (that's Sport Utility Vehicle...Correct?) can take my family of 4 (+ dog + all our stuff) to Tahoe safely in a snow storm...Pull my 20' Ski Boat...Take me to that campsite in the back country and hall around all of our sporting gear in this type of comfort then I'm all for calling it an SUV...
I'm not sure I'd spend $30 grand on a vehicle to run on a motocross circuit (particularily when $5k is tied up in the stereo, Leather and DVD Entertainment System ).
And my neighbors w/ the Izuzu Trooper next door says his SUV makes a great minivan for them too
I don't like the image of a minivan although that's what I should buy. Then again, it's my money, so I'll spend it as I see fit.
Jerry
I sat in the rear of an MDX, my head was inches from the glass. Maybe not 2-3", perhaps 6", regardless, with such a low back, it is a concern - I do plan to haul 6 adults from time to time. Lot of comments on the leg room, but no-one has mentioned anything more about the low backs. It reminds me of the rear seat in a Jeep Cherokee Sport - good for kids, but a whiplash special for Adults. And for those who say, "I only plan to use the 3rd row on a rare occasion", well the 2nd & 3rd row are the same height. I've seen a comment that Honda did this to improve rear visability. Anyone else out there concerned? Like I mentioned before, I was very excited about the Pilot and was set on purchasing one, now I'm reconsidering. Times running out - 3 months left on my Pathfinder lease.
Judging from the MDX's 3rd row, the bench has a good seat height (at least for a child), unlike those of, say, a Tahoe where an adult can sit back there, but with his knees to his chest since the seat height is low.
I think they come with temporary spares already.
Right?
As far as I could tell, the only AWD/4WD minivans available were the Chryslers and GMs (Venture/Montana/Silhouette) none of which have good reliability ratings. If the Odyssey came with 4wd that would have been at the top of the list.
Given the way the MDX & Ody dealers in CA are behaving the markup on Pilots will be $3-$5K over MSRP for the next year or more.
We'll probably end up with a Chevy Trailblazer EXT or GMC Envoy XL. Both have 7 seater capacity and a decent amount of 3rd row legroom and space behind so passengers' heads don't hit the rear windshield (which is how I eliminated the Rendezvous). $34-$35K fully loaded with leather, 8 way power front seats, DVD, Bose 6CD changer, 270 HP engine, separate dr/pass/rear climate controls, 1 year free Onstar!
Can't believe we're becoming an all GM family (the other vehicle's a Saab)!
Jerry
The second row was perfectly fine. I believe Honda engineered the three rows with "stadium seating". The seat cushion in the second row is higher than the first and the third is higher than the second. It's likely that they didn't have any choice in the matter and it was designed this way to make room for the VTM4 differential.
My only concern with the second row is the smallish head rests. They extend up high enough for a tall adult, but how often do people remember to adjust their headrest when getting into a car? Most of the time, they be pushed all the way down for better visibility.
Or, buy a base model MDX for $35,000.
If you compare observed mpg with other cars/trucks, you'll find that the same is true.
They do have some nice attributes. Since you're obviously concerned with safety, also please consider the "marginal" IIHS crash test scores of the short versions of the two vehicles. I don't know if the larger versions will do any better.
http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0119.htm
Agreed that the Pilot will be tight for the third row. That possible AWD version of the next-gen Sienna sounds very interesting. I don't know how the Ford Explorer is like with the third row seating? If you go full-size (and more money), the Toyota Sequoia is a very solid option.
For what it's worth, Acura claims that the MDX is designed to withstand a 35mph rear-end collision without intrusion to the third row. That should extend to the Pilot. They have extensively crash-tested the vehicle during their development, and not every manufacturer can or is willing to make this claim.
MPG improves very slightly after a thousand miles or so.
-mike
Will be interesting to see how they compare. Competition is always nice to have for the consumer.
-mike
-mike
Sorry, still no pricing
The only important factor is whether or not the final price is a fair price, not where you started the negotiation.
According to Edmunds, the MDX at MSRP is selling at a discount to true market value. I expect the Pilot MSRP to reflect the same great value and appreciate Honda setting a bargain price up front.
Purchasing cross country might be a good idea. Or you can maybe find a dealer in Vegas, fly down there, have a good time and drive back home. Just a thought...
I assume the 4Runner will be higher, and know the Volvo will start at $35,000. I'm not familiar with the Nissan Murano. Is it the "futuristic" looking vehicle?