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Comments
The cars were not PDIed, so I was restricted to a short drive up the street, and around the dealer lot. Preliminary comments:
• Classic Honda: brilliant and frustrating at the same time. Brilliant in that it will probably become the new paradigm for this class of vehicle. Frustrating in that, as great as it is, with just a little more work, it would be perfect, IMO.
• The interior is extremely well thought out. Terrific attention to detail, especially the front center console, with its cell phone storage, and double row front seat rear storage pockets. I even sat in the 3rd row seats, and aside from marginal legroom, the seats were quite comfortable. An adult could stay there for short to moderate ride, but it's best left to children.
• With only a 106" wheelbase, it has a very tight turning circle; I think it's 38 feet.
• It's very wide. 48" paneling will fit flat on the floor in the rear, between the wheel wells. In my limited drive, the width didn't seem to be a problem.
• Details MIA: No moonroof option. No heated seats or outside mirrors. No ambient temperature gauge. No full-size spare.
• Bad decisions made by Honda: The DVD/Navigation system is an either/or situation. You can have one or the other, but not both. These options are also only available on the top-of-the-line EX w/leather.
• Towing: Yes it has the same 3500/4500 tow rating as the MDX—only if the trailer has brakes. Unbraked trailers are restricted to 1000 pounds, just like Subaru and many others. I read this in the owner's manual.
• Wished it had a low range, so that it could compete with traditional SUVs for HD applications.
• I'm a fan of timing chains, this has a timing belt that need to be replaced every 60K.
Bottom line: Close (very close!), but no cigar.
Bob
- Lots more cubby holes and little storage spaces than the Odyssey.
- With the third row up, the trunk space is very small compared to the Odyssey. I doubt you could even fit a full-size stroller or a double stroller in there as the space between the seat back and the glass is no more than about 12".
- Head rests in all the 2nd and 3rd row positions are very small - smaller than the 3rd row headrests in the Odyssey. Still, I was able to adjust them to the back of my head - something you can rarely do with a domestic car.
- Center of second row seat is firm (agree with previous post on this). Not really comfortable for three people out of car seats for long periods. LX without activity tray may be more comfortable.
- Third row seat may be about as wide as the Odyssey third row seat, but has far less padding in the seat back and bottom, and sits much lower to the floor. An adult can sit quite comfortably in the 3rd row of the Odyssey, not so in the Pilot. I am 6' 2" and my knees were firmly against the back of the second row seat, and my thighs were well off the seat bottom.
- The overall look of the interior is nicer than the Odyssey - the plastics are a bit more 'adventurous' and the dash is more interesting.
Overall - I have 3 kids all in car seats and I would not buy a Pilot - not enough cargo space. If at least one of my kids was out of a car seat I might consider it. The towing capacity is a real shame however. I wish you could tow a decent travel trailer behind it. Even a 5,500 lb towing capacity would be good.
Per a previous post - the Pilot should have been about a foot longer. 3 more inches for the 3rd row seat leg room, and 9 inches for the trunk...
1. That 2nd row activity tray is a killer for your back as reported in previous posts. To me this makes the seat unusable unless a child seat is there.
2. The vehicles has a lot of cheap plastic parts some with poor finishes.
3. The tactile feel of the turning signal and windshield wiper stalks feel very cheap like a "Big 3" product.
4. I did like the cloth fabric.
5. The cargo space behind the 3rd row seat is too small for our needs. We have a family of 5.
I have commented previously how Honda has decontented their vehicles over the last 12 years. The Pilot fits into this category.
I'm sure this vehicle will meet the needs of many here but not us. I think the Sequoia better meets our needs.
If one wants the SUV image, or needs the AWD, then Pilot is the way to go.
Bob
I have an Odyssey and just drove my Pilot EX-L yesterday (taking delivery this week). I agree with the other posts that this isn't the vehicle to take at the expense of the Odyssey. I'm getting the Pilot to replace my SUV (ML 320) and keeping the our Odyssey for the real family related hauling. Don't get me wrong, for most everyday stuff, the Pilot is fine, but for vacations, or if you have to haul a fair amount of things with your kids (strollers, pack and plays, etc.) I think you'll be disappointed. Keep your Odyssey. If I had to choose between my Odyssey and my Pilot, I would definitely keep the Odyssey.
The size of it (on the outside) was actually bigger than I expected. The grill on it is almost too big for my taste (very Excursion-like, but without the chrome).
The interior surprised me because it was a lot smaller than I had anticipated. The center dash really stuck out to me as being unattractive because it is so ordanary and square. The lights in the grab handles in the back is a cool idea.
The Pilot was very interesting to see, but I'm thinking that the CR-V would better suit our needs.
Steve
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Driving: Quiet, good power, doesn't feel like a truck. Corners better than I'd thought. I've driven other SUVs, and this handled better than all but the MDX.
Interior: Efficient, not fancy or stylish. 3rd row is adequate for someone 5-10 for an hour or so. Tricky to get into but so was the MDX and Rendezvous. For my purposes, it's fine - won't be using it a lot.
Price: Dealer is sticking with MSRP with no accessories or other add-ons so far. Something interesting though. The salesguy said that Honda was putting pressure on dealerships to only sell Pilots with lots of extras. He said that after the initial allotment (around 8 vehicles) the rest would only come with all the trimmings. Though the sales guy is clearly one of my best friends (judging by how glad he always is to see me), I don't accept this as gospel. However, selling loaded Pilots would be consistent with what I've read in this forum.
Later that day I checked out the MDX which I've had on order for a while. I drove it again to compare. It's just nicer. Maybe I'm a sucker for the wood paneling, sun roof and other stuff, but the MDX felt like luxury and the Pilot like utility. The price for the MDX was now 35.2K. For a difference of 5.6K, utility was sounding ok. It is just a vehicle after all.
The test is tomorrow, when I fill out all the forms. We'll see if the price holds up.
I sat in the infamous third row seat along with my salesman. I'm 5' 9" and he was 6' and neither of our knees touched the front seat though there was only an inch or so to spare. I'd say we couldn't have fit a kid any older then 6 between us though. So it's really a 7 passenger vehicle.
They told me the in dash 6 CD changer itself was $500 or so and didn't include labor and they hadn't received the install times from Honda yet, but I'm guessing that'll be $200 more. So my dilemma is going with the installed changer for the big bucks which will be warranted by Honda and honored if I eventually do an extended warranty or go for the Circuit City type and get a 10 or 12 CD Changer installed under the seat for probably less money. Does anyone have any advice?
One other thing I noticed during my test drive and when it was parked next to my ML 320 is that the roof rack on the Pilot is set quite a ways back. I put a canoe on my ML quite a bit and it looks like I'd need to put some foam inserts on the canoe on the pilot to bridge the gap between where the roof rack ends and where the rest of the roof continues on. It seemed odd to me but I only have on data point (my ML) to compare it to.
I found the Pilot to be more attractive than I expected. I even liked the back end. However, I was not crazy about the shade of red. I liked the white and even the havasu blue Pilots on the lot quite a bit better.
Climbing inside, I liked the front seats very much; they are well shaped and comfortable (much more so than the MDX). The cloth seemed to be of high quality.
The center dash stack seemed to be a bit of a compromise. Clearly, this was designed for the EX-L Nav (with its screen and DVD slot), then re-configured for other trim lines. It screamed out that something was missing.
The center console is great; it has lots of useful places to stash things. I particularly liked the movable cup holders.
My kids climbed into the center seat, and the complaining began. The seat back for the middle position is hard and fairly uncomfortable. As others have noted, the fold-down activity tray greatly affects this seat.
Then I had the kids climb into the back, and things really fell apart. They hated it. They felt it was much worse than the MDX! I think it had to do with the space being split into three positions by the seat belts and the 60-40 split, vs. the two positions and the 50-50 split in the MDX. None of them would ride there even for a test drive.
We test drove the Pilot for a while on city streets and the freeway. The engine power was good, although acceleration felt a little slower than the MDX. Road noise was limited. The suspension is softer than the MDX but very comfortable. However, this particular vehicle must have had a bad window seal; there was a tremendous whistling noise that started at around 35 mph and peaked at 50. It actually unnerved my kids.
I took the Pilot back to the dealer and had my salesman go for a ride. He confirmed the noise, saying that he had never heard anything like it. However, he was convinced they could fix it.
Bottom line, after much family debate and thought, was that we decided not to get the vehicle. We simply couldn't seat five people comfortably. Obviously, YMMV.
I guess we are back to the drawing board. We'll have to take another look at the MDX and the Sequoia.
"The salesguy said that Honda was putting pressure on dealerships to only sell Pilots with lots of extras. He said that after the initial allotment (around 8 vehicles) the rest would only come with all the trimmings."
The "extras" are all dealer-installed accessories and Honda does not put them on the vehicles, AFAIK. So this is, as you suspected, deceiving info from the salesguy.
"So my dilemma is going with the installed changer for the big bucks which will be warranted by Honda and honored if I eventually do an extended warranty or go for the Circuit City type and get a 10 or 12 CD Changer installed under the seat for probably less money."
Knowing Honda, they've probably made it difficult to put in your own CD changer. Though stereo outfits are quite clever and might figure out a way -- but it might take some time before more details about the Pilot audio system are fully known.
The in-dash, magazineless CD changer, if it's like what is on the MDX Touring, is great. I'd go for it if you want a CD changer.
"Then I had the kids climb into the back, and things really fell apart. They hated it. They felt it was much worse than the MDX! I think it had to do with the space being split into three positions by the seat belts and the 60-40 split, vs. the two positions and the 50-50 split in the MDX."
A friend of mine who has test-driven both the MDX and Pilot had a very similar experience. He wasn't happy about the MDX's third row, but even less so with the Pilot's. The seat itself is pinched between the wheel wells so making it 3-positions is pushing it and 60-40 is pushing it.
"That 2nd row activity tray is a killer for your back as reported in previous posts. To me this makes the seat unusable unless a child seat is there."
Ouch. Is there insufficient cushioning over the "bottom" of the activity tray? Most vehicles have some kind of hump for the center (e.g. for the armrest but it shouldn't be that bad.
In a word, "good". It drove like I expected. Decent ride, reasonably quiet, handled okay, acceleration was good (though it required more pedal than I was expecting), and visibility was actually better than expected.
I had the chance to stop by a Toyota dealer and compared the Highlander (no test drive). It seemed small inside. In terms of passenger space, it didn't seem any bigger than my CR-V. The Pilot dwarfs it on the inside.
I'll post more later, but right now I have a real bed calling calling my name.
Oh, the white looks fine, though the interior color on production models is different that the ones I saw last month.
Went with the Envoy XL because it's got the extra 18" that allows for decent 3rd seat legroom and storage behind, plus I got a great deal - no arrogant MSRP+ pricing.
And did I really read right that the Pilot will only tow a 1000 lb (non braked) trailer???? Thats no better than the CRV! So I could not tow my 1500 lb boat and trailer with it? I tow them now with my Highlander, and it is effortless.
I was also shocked to see the wheelbase of the Pilot as only 106".....is that correct?
The dealers are asking for OVER MSRP???? And people are paying that? Amazing.......
From my perspective, i only got to drive around the block, will test more extensivelly when one comes to my local dealer. I want to know about hwy windnoise, hwy ride and power. But we are moving from the ML320, so that is my reference point and my wifes, she wants rear a/c. i'll have to look at the ml320 for 03 to compare. alot has changed in vehicles in the last 4 years. IN winter, the ml is flawless, which my wife loves, so how is the mdx in the winter and slippery situations?
I had a very pleasant experience with a Honda dealership, Boch Honda in Norwood MA, on Saturday.
I had emailed them a week before expressing my interest in a Pilot, but only at MSRP with no dealer markups or add-ons.
They emailed me back in short order, saying that they would sell me a Pilot at MSRP with no markups or add-ons.
On Saturday morning, they emailed me and told me that the Pilots had arrived and that they had one unexpected "extra", a Havasu Blue EX-L, if I was interested. Again at straight MSRP.
I made an appointment and went down to the dealer. The salesman, Mohammad Karim, and sales manager, Chris White, were both incredible gentleman. No pressure and extremely accomodating. Mohammad showed me the Havasu Blue Pilot, which had virtually just come off the truck.
As folks have mentioned, Havasu Blue is an unusual color. I didn't think I would like it, but I thought it was an acceptable color. Not to sound sexist or anything, I thought it would surely appeal to my wife. Wrong. She made it very clear she didn't like the color at all.
I explained to Mohammad that the color wasn't to our liking so we would pass on it. Despite this and the fact that the Pilot wasn't prepped yet, Mohammad pulled strings to allow us to test drive it, so that we would have a Pilot driving experience. (the other Pilots at the dealership were presold and in the process of being prepped).
My overall driving impression was that it was very quiet. When the engine was at idle, you hardly know it's even on. The acceleration didn't seem to be as quick as an MDX, but this Pilot has had no break-in, so this my change. Overall, the suspension felt tighter than I expected, but again, I attest this to be so new.
I like the exterior look and size. At times, it looks small and other times it looks big. Kinda strange. The interior would fit my needs fine. Mainly for my wife and I and our dogs. No need for the third seat.
After the test drive, there was no followup pressure to buy the Havasu Pilot. Mohammed and Chris made it clear that when an available EX comes in with my color choices, I would be contacted.
MSRP with no hassle or markups. I highly recommend Boch Honda based on my one and only experience with them.
In contrast, Herb Chambers Honda in Burlington also contacted me on Saturday (in fact before Boch Honda) letting me know that they had an available Pilot. However, they added a Lojack and Simonize to the vehicle. When I asked the price, the salesguy hemmed and hawed. When I told him I would only buy at MSRP with no addons, he more-or-less said that that was virtually impossible. I told him I would pass on his available Pilot and that I would buy a base MDX at MSRP (which I can get at Acura of Peabody) before I would buy a Pilot with add-ons.
-stuartc
MDX - ML comparo with all due respect to other SUV owners/fanciers; excellent articles by same auther on MDX & Pilot:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/columns/healey/2002-05-31-honda-pilot.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/money/columns/healey/0029.htm
.......and to do your own comparo's:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/columns/healey/index.htm
folks, this is an SUV so it is not going to have as much interior space as a similarly sized mini-van like the Odyssey. There is no other style of vehicle that can pack as much interior space into its exterior dimensions as a mini van. If you want lots of space in a relatively small package buy a mini-van. If you want a mid-size SUV style vehicle combined with Honda innovation and reliability, take a look at the Pilot.
If interior space is what you want, buy a minivan. You can't have something in this world without sacrificing something for it.
The Pilot is bigger then the Highlander (HL) and it gets the same mileage as the v6 HL and it is a far less polluter then the HL.
Both great vehicles in my opinion, but I would lean towards the Pilot. More for your money!
Can some one comment on the leg room available for the driver?
This Sunday, I tried sitting in the pilot and in the new CR-V, and for some reason, the CR-V felt more comfortable for me (I'm about 6'4)
I'd also like to add to stuartc's post (#2579), about herb chambers honda in burlington, MA - it looks like every salesrep there has the "i could not care less" attitude - stay away from them.
Bob
As for towing, as has been mentioned above, outside the US most vehicles can tow more without brakes. You can thank the US Legal System and the Lawyers for putting the braked trailer restriction so low on US sold vehicles.
-mike
I see that people are really getting excited about the new Pilot. It seems that it is the right SUV for the right price, wherein folks are willing to pay MSRP for it. Myself, I think I'll wait a few months so that I can compare it to the new Aviator, 4-runner, Murano, Taureg (are they coming in 2002 or 2003?) and Kia Soorento. These seem to be competitor which will give Honda a run for their money.
Does anyone know of a delearship in DC/VA/ MD who has the Pilot in stock. I would like to take a test drive in one just to start my comparison list.
Bob
Performance - I got in, made myself comfortable, and drive it out of the parking lot onto route 44 (a very busy road). Acceleration was fine. I didn't need to push the engine and the tranny shifted quite smoothly. Off the line, it doesn't feel like a 2 ton vehicle. Giving it gas isn't addictive like it is in my wife's TL. I feel that the gas pedal action was a little spongy. Too little resistance for my tastes. Braking was as expected. Pedal feel is good, but I'm sure stopping distances will be mid-pack at best. When moving through the curves, you start to feel all that weight. Body roll is well controlled for an SUV, but won't compare with sedans or wagons. I didn't test emergency handling, but weaving at 40 mph didn't upset any occupants.
Ride and comfort - I like the seats. I'm 6'1" and 205 lbs for reference. Both the front and rear seats were perfectly adequate. The dead pedal in the Pilot is a little small, but better placed than the one in the new CR-V. The armrest/console between the seats works well for both functions. There is gobs of headroom. The roof and pillars are well spaced. I had no trouble finding drive with the gear selector. While in park, it gets in the way. I didn't notice it while driving.
The engine gets raspy above 4000 rpms, but is relatively quiet otherwise. The ride over repaired pavement was significantly better than my 99 CR-V (and the CR-V ain't exactly bad). I'm sure the longer wheelbase and larger tires are partly responsible. Outward visibility was very good. I pulled into a standard sized parking space at the end of my drive. No problem. My wife backed it out for her test. Also no problem.
For comparison, I drove most of the same route in my CR-V immediately afterward.
Nothing in the third row has changed since my last review. It's still small for adults, but big enough for children and use for short trips. I agree with the above posts. It's not a mini-van.
Features - Unlike the vehicle I "test-parked" a while back, the power was on for this test drive. I'm not an audiophile, but the stereo seemed pretty good to me. The vehicle was green (nice color) with a saddle interior. It was an EX-L RES. The door handle/armrests are leather covered. A note of potential concern there. The leather on the armrests uses long baseball-like stitches with standard gauge thread. I've never had a vehicle like that, but it made me wonder if the thread will see a lot of abuse and fray easily. Just a thought. There was also a black plastic cargo mat. It fit well, but was made from a rather hard plastic rather than heavy rubber. I suspect it will scratch.
However, the layout is different. The HL simply felt more like the CR-V than the Pilot. Directly above my head, there was adequate space in all vehicles. But the roof rails in the HL were much closer to my noggin than in the Pilot. In fact, the addition of a grab handle in that spot made the HL seem less spacious than the CR-V. The lack of a center console also lends the CR-V an impression of extra space.
Again, these are the dealers that deserve our business.
Jessica
Here is the kicker, Autowest Honda in Fremont, CA has a $6k markup on the sticker, although the guy told me that he could come down some... LOL.
Just passing the bad news along. However, if you're one of those persons who doesn't mind paying way over MSRP, they have a silver EX and a black one (don't know the trim).
Spoke to my dealer today he's selling at MSRP
I just have to see what colors they are.
Since the first models are arriving, I have been inundated with calls from the dealers that I left my name with and no one in San Diego is at MSRP.
But I got a name of a dealer up the coast in San Luis Obispo that will sell at MSRP. Called in the 500 deposit right then and there.
Steve
Why do you suppose that is?? They really aren't as practical or as useful as some Minivan's for most people, but women just don't care it seems.
Not trying to be mean or hateful, just an observation.
I was told the Simonize ($995)and Lojack($595)were already on the car.
I will not pay over MSRP or be forced to buy options I don't want.
When we returned from the drive the Lojack guy was waiting to install it.
I offered MSRP and they said NO.
I had ordered a Blue EXL w/NAV in March from (Kelly Honda in Salem,MA) which was supposed to be delivered next week. I went there Saturday and they told me it would be at least 4 to 6 more weeks (They're only making Black and Silver). I cancelled the order today (The Sales Manager could have cared less).
Commonwealth Honda in Lawrence won't tell me what they have because they're not done installing the options.
Honda Barn of No. Reading have theirs also optioned up as well.
I'm sick of Honda's decontenting (Even a Civic EX has a Moonroof and what's with the Black door handles)and their dealers attitudes!
I'm spending over $30,000 dollars.