Honda Pilot 2003 through 2005

mredden1

MSRP is made up number to the extent that it is designed to give the dealer a predetermined profit if he sells at that price, essentially a mark-up on the dealer cost. My point is, and I'm sure that you agree, there is nothing magical about MSRP since it is actually the market that decides the price. Selling at greater than MSRP seems to be more rampant in the more affluent parts of the US since price may be less of an issue for many folks in those areas.

indymom

nofeer & wmquan,

you should check out the following site-- hondanews.com/Forms/honda/pilot/*ws4d-db-query-Show.ws4d?*ws4d-db-query-Show***002701***-wieck_media***-***honda(directory)pilot(directory)***.ws4d?honda/pilot/results(r)_text.html

(if that link doesn't work, then go to Hondanews.com, click on the Pilot, and then check out the "Technical" section on the side. I believe the HVAC info is in the "Interior" section. From what I can tell, there are 2 separate (but linked!) front and rear HVAC systems. This site has some interesting info. directly from Honda. We learn, of all things, that the austere styling originated from the "Pelican case." What a hoot! (wish that equipment case had been a little more curvy!)

FYI for whoever was wondering about door handles previously--looks like LX is black, and Ex is body-colored.

wmquan

Thank you for the pointer to the info! Yes, indeed, the Pilot has the same 2nd climate control unit with its own fan and temperature controls, complete with its own subsystem. I had (incorrectly) thought that Honda cut that out from the MDX, but it's definitely there.

wmquan

Thanks varmint. With the MDX, I find if I push the seatback back, the seat does want to slide back in its track before the seatback goes upright again.

If I hold onto the seat while pushing the rear seatback (thus preventing it sliding back), the seatback will go lock upright, and the seat itself will "click" into place in a slide-forward position. Again, I'm not sure if this is by design, if this is by accident, and whether it's a secure (safe) feature or not. There's no mention of it in the MDX owner's manual.

varmint

Sorry, gotta repost. The pic I included earlier has a logo that is taboo. My bad. (Steve, is it okay to link to that pic?) From the original post:

The second row slides forward when you release a lever on the outboard side of the seat. The seat automatically folds forward as it slides.

When I was playing with this feature, I moved the seat back into its upright position by pushing the seatback. The seat slid backwards on the track before the seatback shifted back into the upright position.

Based on that, I would guess that the second row cannot be moved forward to give more legroom to the third row. I can't be sure as I didn't play
with the seats for that long.

That should make Wmquan's post a bit more understandable. As for his response, it is entirely possible that you might be able to force the seat to stay in place when putting the seatback into its upright position. I didn't mess with it much.

wmquan

Varmint: I guess for safety's sake, I wouldn't leave the 2nd row "locked" forward even if it could do it, unless there was more specific word from Honda on whether or not that's okay or not (e.g. in the manual).

It could be that the locking I described is just getting some clamping pressure down in the wrong place -- enough to make it seem secure, but possibly not enough to keep it secure in hard stop or collision. Better safe than sorry.

stever

I guess we could live with a pic link, especially since it's not the storm trooper CR-V pic :-)

Steve
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minliang_c

Went to 2 Honda dealers in the Bay Area (San Jose, CA), both have markups, $3K and $4K, respectively. Wouldn't negotiate price either, except they said to call me back when the car arrives at dealership.
My guess is that they may have a waiting list, so will see how many people are willing to purchase at markup price. If they can't sell out the 1st allocation at that price, then ...

mredden1

My dealer dropped one off at the office.

We only get five colour choices in Canada-Black, Silver, Red, Havasu Blue and Sandstone. My dealer is getting a Havasu Blue EX-L in this month and a Silver EX next month (he's a small dealer). Looks like he will have to do some horse trading to get me a Black EX-L by July 31st. He says that the National Sales Manager owes him a couple of favours, but who knows.

And yes according to the brochure we Canadians get heated leather seats which I suppose is compensation for the fact that we don't seem to get an outside temperature gauge. So our buns will be warm even if we don't know how cold it is outside.

BTW, the list of dealer installed options is mind boggling. Reminds me of a Big 3 brochure from that perspective. So it will be easy to customize your ride.

wmquan

Interesting that Honda omitted the temperature gauge while including heated seats.

My understanding from the post of a gentleman in another system is that a Pilot EX in Canada is CDN$41,000 and an EX-L is CDN$43,000? Is that the price you've seen?

What makes it more interesting is that the MDX in Canada is CDN$48,000. But the difference is that the Canadian MDX is the equivalent of the Touring Edition sold in the U.S. and not the base MDX. (Can't get nav the Canadian MDX.)

So while we in the United States face a US$4,220 price difference between a Pilot EX-L and a _base_ MDX, there's a CDN$5,000 difference between the EX-L and a touring edition MDX (presuming the Canadian Pilot pricing above is correct). Then again, the Odyssey and MDX are not particularly popular in Canada, at least judging from the availability.

And before someone asks, the Canadian Honda warranty generally isn't honored in the U.S.

rsholland

once the Pilot debuts, if the '03 MDX will get some upgrades to justify the price difference? Perhaps a larger, more powerful engine? I've heard rumors of possibly a 3.8L engine is in the works.

Bob

wmquan

It's likely the MDX will eventually get some upgrades to better differentiate it. However, there's no guarantee it'll happen with the 2003 model year. Honda seems to take its time addressing feature gaps sometimes, especially when the vehicles are selling well.

The most commonly stated rumor is an upgraded 3.8l engine, as you mentioned. Even some of the major rags have predicted it.

I'd guess that most of Honda's post-Pilot attention will be focused partially on the upcoming Element, and, mostly, on the redesigned Accord (and, if they release simultaneously, the new TL). Doesn't mean they won't try upgrading the MDX, though.

thfrazer

Hi,

I haven't been here in a few days, but now the text scrolls off the right of my screen and it didn't do that the other day. I haven't changed a thing on my computer. Any ideas?

Tom F.

thfrazer

Disregard my previous message about the text going off the right side of my screen. After I posted the message everything returned to normal.

Go figure...

Tom F.

rms41

If you go back a few messages it will reappear. I get this as well. I think it's due (this time) to message number 2406 posted by indymom. There is a very long link in it. I think some browsers won't split the line because there are no imbedded spaces so it looks like one long word.

rms41

I checked and the problem doesn't exist if you use Internet Explorer, only with Netscape Navigator (which I use because its email system is less vulnerable to virus attacks than IE).

stever

Rms41 is right - long urls will throw off the margins, until you scroll to the next screen of posts. That's the reason for our 115 character limit when you post a link (although sometimes long urls sneak in.) Makeashorterlink.com is a good way around this issue.

Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

mredden1

Yes the pricing is $41,000 Cdn for the EX and $43,000 Cdn for the EX-L.

BTW we get a 5 year, 100,000 Km (approx 62,000 miles)powertrain warranty. Is this the same as the US?

Still can't figure out that outside temperature gauge issue...

wmquan

Facetious answer: Maybe they think it's just cold? Just kidding, some folks will be surprised at how moderate temperatures can get in Canada. That said, the inclusion of heated seats is generally considered a must for the Canadian market. Canadian buyers expect that as standard.

The Canadian warranty (not honored in the U.S.) is better. In the U.S., it's just three years/36,000 miles for Hondas. Acuras get four years/50,000 miles plus roadside assistance.

Another major "feature.' I understand that above-MSRP pricing is illegal in Canada.

Generally, it's much easier to buy an Odyssey in Canada, and easier to buy an MDX. You don't have the huge waiting lists as in the States.

shaq2kobe

While watching the basketball games this weekend, I saw 4 different Pilot commercials. The last 2 actually shows the front of the Pilot driving at you, with the June 3 arrival date. (Black Pilot)

mredden1

I wasn't aware that above MSRP pricing is illegal in Canada although I can't remember too many vehicles being sold for a premium over MSRP. Instead we see only "loaded" vehicles being manufactured. In addition dealers add lots of dealer installed options to bump up their profit margins.

The current wait for an MDX is 3 to 4 months. Not sure about the Odyssey but my local Honda dealer always seems to have one or two on the lot.

kexicao

Over the weekend, my wife and I went to local New Jersey Honda dealers to check out the situation with the Pilot. First dealer (a pretty big dealer called Planet Honda on Rt 22) said they don't take any preorders anymore. the sales rep asked us just give him our phone number and he will call us when the cars are in. I asked him how is he going to do this when there is one Pilot comes in and there are 20 people on his phone list? Note: it's not a waiting list since it's not a ordered list. The guy basically said whoever is willing to pay the highest price will get it. I just couldn't believe my ears! I know I will not buy from this dealer although I did give him our phone number just to find out how this is going to turn out.

We then went to another smaller dealer called VIP honda. The sales rep said they do take pre-order. I told him that we want an EX-L Nav. He came back with a pre-order form with a price $33,580. I told him that I would not pay anything more than the MSRP. First he said, "Oh, this is the MSRP including the destination fee". When I told him I knew the MSRP is $32K some thing, he then went back to the office and came back said it was his mistake and there is a $600 mark-up. I told him again I would not pay more than MSRP. He wrote down "Customer offer the MSRP only". We put down $500 and were told we might have to wait for 8 to 10 weeks.

I think by the time the Pilot is here. The dealer is going to ask for the mark-up or they will give it to someone else. I am getting very irritated by this...

KC

Spyponder

Not for nothing, but if you don't want to pay over MSRP and are getting irritated by the dealers who charge over MSRP, why did you put a deposit down at one of them? Couldn't you try some of the umpteen other dealers in NJ to see if they would sell for MSRP?

jcope

Does June 3rd mean the Pilot will be available to purchase or to view. Will the cars be released to the consumer or will there be a display period?

varmint

Spy - With his name on the list, he has options. Without it, he has a list of dealers who won't take his money. JM2C.

Spyponder

I hear you about options. But in my experience, getting a deposit back from a dealer can be a pain in the butt. I don't think I would put one down unless I was serious about buying there. JMHO.

kexicao

Varmint - That's exactly my thought at the time because the first dealer just sounded SOOOO bad. I have not realized how difficult to get my money back from a car dealer. I paid with my credit card and hope that will help when the situation arises.

KC

Don't let the bidding war start!

sjwsmw

It appears that there are some dealers that will sell at MSRP. They should be supported for this decision. They should be named where MSRP markup is happening.
I just left the last dealer in the San Diego area that I thought might not be marking up, but appears they are. I was handed a price sheet for each model that was clearly higher than the MSRP. He said this includes 'destination and handling' charges and isn't taking names or deposits. I said I wasn't paying above MSRP and left it at that.
But we shall see what happens when the vehicles arrive.

So, if anyone knows of a dealer in So. Cal. that is selling at MSRP, please let me know. Don't mind driving for it.

woodard1

My car is built and setting in a holding area. So when can I expect for Honda to release it? I know the release date is June 3rd but should I expect to have my car Monday? Or will dealers be getting there demo's released Monday? And will it really be Monday? Surely the dealers will have time beforehand to p & i the cars RIGHT?? Does anyone have a best guess? I've never waited on a car before?

rms41

I got basically the same info from my dealer. He said they're sitting in a holding area (Naperville for the Chicago area) but he still expected at least one to arrive this week with several more (including mine!) showing up next week. He said this is standard Honda procedure. He also said he got to test drive it as well as the competition (Highlander, Explorer, and another one but I forgot which one). He said the Pilot didn't even have a window sticker on it but the "competition" all did.

bengelking

We have four Honda dealers in the area and they each have their own style:

One is at $1,000 over MSRP but they will match written offers
One is at MSRP but they are putting a "Gold Package" of options on (at $2,700 over MSRP)
One is at MSRP with no discount for options
One (where my deposit is) is at MSRP with options at their installed cost.

They all said the same thing - vehicles will be coming in this week and will be available for test driving and sale starting 6/3.

jmurman42

Last week, we had a crazy situation. Seems that someone made off with BAGS of keys for Odysseys, Pilots and CRV's at the Port. So, each dealership had to send someone down to "key" these cars. My guy came back and said there over 1,000 Pilots at the Port awaiting shipment...gonna be a big release!

Jerry

redlenses

Fellow Pilots,

I read in Automotive New today that slightly over 3000 Pilots have been produced thru May 15. I have never heard of such a new vehicle release as Honda is doing with the Pilot. I think their corporate strategy is to tease an unsuspecting market and then charge what ever the market can bear and if my local Honda dealers pricing policy with the CRV (+$3K), Odyssey (+$3K), Sport Civic HB (+$4K), and S2000 (+$10K) is any indication you will see a continuation of the same, people will pay not me!

Happy Shopping

varmint

I'm told by a fellah who works at the Ontario plant that they're making about 360 units per day. That was on May 19th.

suvweee

One of those 360 were mine. It was supposed to be built on the 19th. I hope your buddy didn't go to the Leafs game and down alot of Labatts the night before. ;-)

ropedart

Probably discussed before but how long does it take to order and put a Pilot together then get it shipped. The ones at a dealership are really how old?

chaya

I'm pretty sure the Honda dealer in Carlsbad is MSRP, though I didn't buy there. Try carsdirect.com - they hooked me up with a Honda dealer in Ontario, & got me several hundred off for a CR-V that was $3k over msrp at Cush.

dglozman

When I put down my deposit for CR-V in Hillside Honda in Queens I asked about the Pilot pricing. They said that they DO SELL AT MSRP. with no accessories added unless you want it. Ask for Robert - he is the one who gave me this quote. They presold for June production but still have some available for July

low_ball_88

At the prices that these dealer's are charging, you could get a Toyota Sequoia, SR5, with some good options for the same price as a Pilot EX with NAV or DVD. Then you don't have to worry about squeezing in the third row seat, more power, great ride for such a large vehicle and Toyota reliability. Don't get me wrong I own a Honda Accord and Acura RL, I will alway be a Honda man. But at these prices and I see no relieve in sight based on past history, i.e., MDX and Odys, you need to look at other options.

JMHO

paisan

Well the problem is that I think these are 2 different markets. The Crossover v. Truck. The appeal of the pilot is the crossover non-truck chassis. And apparrently people are willing to pay for it.

-mike

low_ball_88

I understand the stationwagon vs. truck issue, but the Sequoia does not ride like a truck.

paisan

No matter what you do it will not ride the same nor handle like a car-based vehicle. Also a lot of the SMVs out there have a hard time seeing out of such large vehicles so they need to get something pilot sized. I'm not pilot lover but it does fill a market. Leave the trucks for people who need em and will use em.

-mike

varmint

Suwvee - I'll administer a BAC test on his next post.

Low Ball - I would expect that ride quality will be one small part of a buyer's considerations. Things like fuel economy, safety, styling, insurance rates, etc. will also be a factor. I'm not saying that the Pilot is necessarily better in these areas. My point is that ride quality is only one item on a long list of differences which may prevent the two from being cross-shopped.

filod

Honda dealers will try to get whatever they can from the Honda Pilot in terms of margins being a new product and their experienced with the phenomenal success of the Odyssey. Time will tell if the market will be more than the intended production.

Some owners suggest that the Odyssey is still selling at more than MSRP, but that is not the case anymore, of course after almost four years since introduction.

It maybe wise to wait for a little while, unless you really need a vehicle right away and the Pilot is your choice, although you might still get it at a reasonable price if one gets to be patient and shop around. It is almost there, Good Luck!

sjwsmw

Thanks Chaya, called the Carlsbad dealer, and he is 1000 over MSRP and said I should be happy to get that.
But I am still going to try and get it lower. Will keep you posted.
Steve

low_ball_88

Good points, Sequoia is equal or better than the Pilot in any of the categories you mentioned, except for mpg (you are getting more power, V8). My point is that I would consider any SUV in that price range regardless if it is in the same class (i.e., midsize, full size, V6 or V8, etc.)just as long that I am getting the most for my money. But it has to be European or Japanese, no American makes. Why pay more because of the greedy dealers out there.

JMHO

aggiebart

Will the pilot have the exact same engine as the Pilot? My MDX takes SUPER UNLEADED! Ouch!

davisdog

It's the same basic 3.5L engine, but is tuned slightly different...Still 240hp...with 242lb torgue (3lb less I think). I suspect slightly different power curves. The Pilot takes Regular unleaded though. 17/22 MPG vs 17/23 for MDX

aggiebart

Davisdog- Would you put regular in the MDX?

davisdog

aggiebart...that's a much debated question and I probably shouldn't even touch it...but

There are reasons (has to do with the way the engine is tuned etc..) that Honda says to run the MDX on Premium and the Odyssey/Pilot version on Regular. The MDX will run on Regular, but you will see some decreases in performance (most noticed going up hills etc...). Whether it causes any harm to an engine to do that is up to you to weigh.

Honda does recommend upgrading to Premium for the Pilot when you are towing a boat behind it etc...

ps...I don't own an MDX, but when I borrowed my friends I put premium in it afterwards...likewise for a Pilot I'll plan on putting regular...I don't know enough to argue with the manufacture.