according to the sales guy, the spare is a temp tire—but a full-size tire will fit. I really don't understand Honda's thinking. The light-duty CRV comes with a full-size spare, yet the medium-duty Pilot (and MDX) don't...
A couple of dealers have gotten official part numbers for the "roof rack" (it is NOT called "roof rails"). Technically you can't buy the roof rails for the LX separately (without the cross members) but you can buy the "roof rack" which is a set of the rails with the cross members.
The pricing of the roof rack is above the cross members (which one buys for the EX), which makes sense since the "roof rack" includes the rails.
The Pilot web site also says the "roof rails" are not available for the LX, but now I'm pretty sure it's because, technically, you can't get the roof rails alone for the LX. In other words, the table shown on the web site is just a literal interpretation, and a deceiving one.
Is the brochure set up the same way? And also, does the brochure list all accessories, and if it does, does it list, in addition to "cross members", a "roof rack"?
On the spare ...
Is the spare a full-diameter spare that just isn't as wide as the regular tires, or is it not full-diameter? The MDX has the latter. Some owners have gone through the hassle of getting a true full-sized spare, though it makes the tire stick down lower under the car.
The pilot running boards are close to the MDX price. However the side steps are significantly cheaper than the MDX's. This according to collegehills pricing. I am hoping to capitalize on cheaper honda accessories for my MDX. The part numbers only differ by a couple of digits.
You can always order the roof rails from the EX for the LX through the parts department of your Honda dealer. I'm sure they can be attached in the same spot as on the EX. Gotta use some outside the box thinking!
I don't know the answers to your questions. As to the roof rack (or rails), there is no mention of any for the LX. That's the best that I can explain it. I'm sure the roof rails from the EX will fit, so why not offer it? It seems so stupid the way Honda has it set up now.
The full Pilot brochure does not list all of the available accessories. There is a separate tri-fold single page brochure that lists everything available which I posted a few days ago.
Exactly. In that accessories catalog, there is a "roof rack" listed. That's what is available as an accessory for the LX, and will include the roof rails and the cross members.
It's not standard equipment for the LX because LX owners don't necessarily want to pay for something they might not have a need for. But one can add them to the LX as an accessory, so it shouldn't be a problem.
Agreed that the Pilot sidesteps should fit the MDX. There's probably a difference between them that you won't mind, e.g. the steppads are probably different in design, and will say "Honda" instead of "Acura" on them.
The "roof rack" that Honda officially sells as an add on accessory (from the Dealer) for the Pilot LX Retails for $299
For the roof rack that comes standard on the Honda Pilot EX, you still need by the Crossbars (just like you do on the CRV) to make it functional (+ ski or bike attachment if you want)..The Crossbars retail for $170.
Online, looks like they can be had for $232 and $132 respectively from a reputable dealer. I can't confirm if the LX Roof Rack Option includes the Crossbars or not.
It sounds like Honda is offering roofrack/rails in exactly the same way that they do for the 2002 Odyssey. Be aware that the LX roofrack (including cross rails) that can be purchased for the Odyssey is NOT the same as the standard equipment roofrack+ dealer-installed cross rails for the Odyssey EX. Some have actually commented that the roofrack/rails for the LX are sturdier than those for the EX. The point is that they are not the same and cannot be swapped. Don't know for sure but the Pilot may have the same 'feature'...
spoke with my honda/ mercedes dealer. they have a slk, hybrid and crv in the showroom, all with $1900 market adjustment. I called my salesman and he said, that for repeat customers (i bought a ml320, accord, civic and merc. slk from them over the years, and my partners buy several cars from them every 2-3 years) that is WAIVED. Because if it wasn't i told my wife (it will be her car) that i won't do it, and wait for the gx470 lexus, or go for a sequoia, Caddy escalade etc. Hey there are alternatives. So what else would you consider, i told my wife, the mdx becomes a more reasonable choice AND if acura changes there attitude But seriously, what alternatives would you consider. As above there are alternatives to the Nav system, alpine, magellan, pioneer etc. My quess the "gouge" will end in the fall as they annouce new '03 models and people get a view of the choices.
My "choices if gouged"--which immediately triggers my "never return to the dealer policy" MDX--conditional based on attitude SEQUOIA AND ADD NAV LEXUS GX470 CADDY ESCALADE/ YUKON XL WITH ONSTAR AND NAV.
Your opinions please, because all of you who want to buy a Pilot may not because of dealer attitude (aka acura). I didn't buy an acura rl(me), or tl(wife) because of the attitude about the mdx. When are dealers going to realize that we don't buy just one vehicle in a lifetime and gouged buyers have long memories.
as an aside-- They had one of those gusteswagan tank mercedes suv also, it's not as bad looking in person than i thought and more room inside than the land rover, but your talking 80+k $$$$$ The commercial if you haven't seen it is a hoot. For the front barrier collision test it just goes though it and the wall!!!
Interesting vehicles you are comparing to...all all much larger (and more $$$)...Honda seems to to want to compare the pilot to the Explorers, Highlanders, Trailblazers of the world (similar in size and cost)...+ take out some 4Runners, Pathfinders from folks that don't want as much of a Truck Like SUV...They are not really marketing in the area you are cross shopping (and leave the more Luxury targeted Lexus, Mercedes, BMW to the MDX)
As far as the roofrack setup on the Odyssey goes - obviously the roof of the vehicle is the same for both the LX and EX. The drilling points for the EX roofrails and the LX roofrails are different though. The crossbars for both models are also different... You could mount an EX roofrack onto an LX roof, but if the LX roof had previously had an LX roofrack on it then you would have drill holes to fill in. ALso LX crossbars cannot be used on EX roofrails. Personally I can't imagine any situation where you would try to do this...!
This is a bit off-topic, and I don't want to start yet another SUV war.
But given that you already have an ML320, why not buy a 2003 or a 2003? Assuming that the price is not an issue, aren't you accustomed to the rather "German" ride of the ML? The 2002's have a LOT of improvements over the older model you have, and overall quality may have finally improved to just average.
This is about as nutty as it gets... Why doesn't Honda just offer the same roof rack for both models? To have the LX get a different 100 pound rated rack, and to have the EX have standard 150 pound capable roof rails is just plain crazy.
And now I hear the Odyessy has a similar situation. I give up...
The Pilot is not in the same class as those other boys. If I was willing to spend more than $35k-40k on a vehicle, I would not even be considering the Pilot. Apples and oranges.
That dealer was Kastner Honda. There's one dealer there. Check out Honda's website.
They were selling the Ody at MSRP. They still may. I verified that with them. They are a small dealer thought so all salesperson is the same. They may still sell it at that price.
But when I called for the Pilot, they were asking $1500 over. I was disappointed for that part.
Probably the further that you go from the big cities, you can get a better deal. Less people probably also means less demand and lower rent so they can sell it cheaper.
Of course, waiting for the madness to calm a little probably helps. Just reminder if you paid too much more over MSRP, you will be paying for a MDX and getting a Pilot.
Just a thought.
I'm in no hurry. I already have that '03 MDX on order. I probably will buy the MDX instead. I like the tech toys.
I know merced honda is only selling Pilot's for MSRP (they said they never sell anything over that...wish I had the cash for an S2000 also). I just put my Sagebrush order in the other day and they had a very short Pilot wait list, even a couple coming in that were available (EX/EX-L in Silver or Red), although that may change quickly. You can email me if you want the specific salesman I dealt with (very easy to deal with...actually, you don't have to "deal" with him at all).
Also I heard mendo lake Honda (in Ukiah) is another MSRP dealer.
Both only a couple hours from the bay area..worth the trip
I'll enjoy a test drive from the MSRP +3K dealer down the street even more as I walk out the door
as far as I've seen in all the forums there has been no confirmaton on any changes to the 2003 MDX (rumors of 3.8L engine, HID's etc...are unproven, but certainly possible...would assume a price bump if it proves true)...prices for those "on order" (or really waitlist) are not fixed, other than MSRP +/- X just like the pilot was until last week)
1. Please don't continue to blame the dealers for selling(gouging?) cars over MSRP. Its tiring. The blame lies with the consumer who pays it.
2. I keep reading comparisons,price wise, of Pilot EX-L and base MDX. If I am not mistaken there is a 5G price difference between the two, even with the dealer markup. That makes it apples/oranges to most people(sorry for the cliche) I would think.
3. Over 40 posts about roof racks, my god, is this what it has come down to. Man we are chompn' at the bit for this car.
4. Have a safe and sane Memorial weekend everyone!
Another option for those interested in the LX or want higher weight options on the EX is to have an after market rooftop rail system installed by a rack outfitter such as Sports Rack. They do an awesome job, and their flat rail system (similar to older explorer and expedition tracks, allow for direct use of Thule towers and crossbars. Their weight limit is usually limited by roof weight limit not the rails since they are thru-bolted. Also when a Thule front door clamp is used as the forward rack, you have minimal risk to the installed rail system. I prefer Thule but Yakima and others work with the system as well.
Bing, from HondaSUV.com, has test driven the Pilot and posted his impressions a few days ago. Along with them, he included a pic of the "100lbs" roof rack sticker. He's also got pics of the rear view camera system and outside temp gauge.
Yep. I'm sure consumers walk up to dealers, look at the sticker and say, 'I'll give you 2,000 more than what this sticker says'. You know what is tiring? People defending this outrageous gouging by dealers. Of course, the only ones defending it are car salesman or relatives of car salesman.
I would agree with you about not blaming dealers, IF, this were an actual bidding war, ie purchasing a home. The dealers have a choice, and some will sell at MSRP. As for those who charge over MSRP, in many cases it's a "Win - Lose" scenario. Anyone that knows anything about sales, this is not a favorable position if you want to continue doing business with your customer. Also, an inflated price on the Pilot, makes the MDX a better "value", and it places these two vehicles very much in competition with one another. Drive safe!
Let's start promoting those dealers selling at MSRP. Let's use the consumer power. In the Tampa Bay area I've had MSRP verbal agreement with Crown Honda. I've also read that Gateway Honda in New Port Richey will sell at MSRP.
Kinnman - But this IS a bidding war. You just don't know who the other bidder is. Neither does the dealer, but they know there's one out there.
AutoWeek made an interesting observation. Perhaps this has been discussed before, but the Pilot's MSRP is actually lower than the Passport's. (Not that the Passport ever sold at MSRP).
I'm not a fan of paying over MSRP, but if the vehicle is worth it, I'll pay.
MSRP is a starting point. Most informed consumers will pay much less than MSRP for a car sitting on the dealers lot. I bought a 01 Civic at invoice about a year ago, dealer made a few hundred bucks with the holdback. They had many to chose from. If you want Pilot it will be MSRP for a while until they sit on the lot. I also have a 98 ML320 which I paid MSRP for back in 1997 after waiting many months. Mercedes "encourages" their dealers to not sell over MSRP. Today you can get an M-Class for invoice, simple supply and demand. I have deposit on a Pilot at a MSRP dealer.Now to the comparison issue, I am considering a new ML320, Pilot EX-L, MDX, Highlander, X5 and 03 4Runner. While this is probably not the norm, some will compare to a wide range of choices.
Can the first owner of a Pilot confirm or deny that the 2nd row 60/40 seat can be locked in a forward position increasing 3rd row leg room? My guess is that it will not lock. I believe this is identical with the MDX.
"My guess is that it will not lock. I believe this is identical with the MDX."
In my MDX, the 40% portion of the second row that slides forward for third-row seat access will lock into the slid-forward position. I don't know if it's designed specifically to do that, however, and how secure the lock is. Though it seems sturdy.
What the Pilot has that the MDX doesn't is that both the 60% and 40% portions can slide forward.
Hey cb70, simmer down there. The people here "defending" dealers who charge MSRP or higher aren't defending anyone, nor do they work for dealers (at least I don't). All we're doing is trying to educate you on the workings of a free market. Supply and demand.
Do I go looking for cars to buy at over MSRP? Nope - I like a bargain as much as the next guy. But to many people, getting a Pilot or other hot vehicle over MSRP IS a bargain. If it isn't a bargain to you, DON'T BUY ONE. It's as simple as that.
What do you want Honda to do, increase the MSRP by $2,000 and then have your local dealer sell you a Pilot for $500 less than MSRP so you can say that you got a bargain?
MSRP is a made-up number. Dealer can sell for whatever he wants. It's called the free market. As many others have said,if the price is more than you want to pay, don't buy. In a free market economy, that's your choice, you vote with your chequebook. Or mosey on over to one of Honda's competitors where I'm sure that you can wrangle some big juicy discount off their (overinflated) MSRP.
My dealer says the car is in their central holding lot but I can't see it until June 3rd. Are any dealers getting them earlier just to show them to people? I already gave them all the money and signed to paper work.
I spoke to a sales rep at Honda Cars of Boston in Everett this week and he told me they are taking $500 deposits and selling at MSRP. They had about 25 deposits as of this past Wed. He said that they have not gotten their allocation yet but expected that rate to work out to be about a 60 day wait.
I bought my Ody at Chambers and at the time they were MSRP with no add ons but recently I've seen Odys there with $995 for Simonize, etc.
I feel your pain. My honda has been built and Bev (my sales lady) informs it Honda is holding it hostage! I wanted to go on a "test drive". Guess they figured that much Huh? I'm so ticked! I just knew she'd have my car and I could be driving it until the June 3rd release date. Oh well, I'll wait a few more days I've been waiting months. I just hope I'm not disappointed in what I see. I ordered a Black EX-L RES. I hope I made a good decision I went backaforth about getting Silver instead. I just always buy that color for some reason. I know it's higher resale prob. Anyways, i'm with you.
<<What do you want Honda to do, increase the MSRP by $2,000 and then have your local dealer sell you a Pilot for $500 less than MSRP so you can say that you got a bargain?
MSRP is a made-up number. Dealer can sell for whatever he wants. It's called the free market >>
MSRP is not a made up number as you say. Honda prices each of it's models according to what they feel will be the most competitive for this vehicle. MSRP also includes various other costsm like freight, advertising, the cost of the warranty, etc.
I agree that alot of cars are overinflated price-wise. That is purely to show a discount to the consumer. This shows up in the dealerships as a consumer who says.."XYZ company is giving $$$ off on their car...or $$$cash back...or Free Money". The unfortunate thing is that even at the discounted price, the consumer is buying a car that they won't be happy with 5years down the road. Thats the real test.
I was told on this same board about apples and oranges, when i buy something i buy the product and how does it satisfy my needs and perceived future needs. Quess i'm lucky my budget allows consideration of Pilot, ML, MDX, Escalade, etc. I have ml320 98 22 visits to my dealer and my wife was locked IN the car due to weird psycho door locks. Perhaps ML has improved in quality, but why take a chance that is why I will (my wife's choice here) go with PIlot after she test drives it. Acura dealer turned her off--if they treat me like that, what will the service guy treat me like when i have a problem--it's also 140 miles away--acura attitude tells me i may not be able to trust service....i'm not about to send my wife 140miles to a place she is not comfortable with. Now she loves the Lexus dealer, i could get her a lexus, but she doesn't like the lift height for a baby seat (lx470) and if the pilot works out she wouldn't want to spend more than necessary. Though the PIlot has less lux than others, what it does have when compared to the last time she went shopping for a vehicle is what matters to her. e.g. rear a/c heat controls with fan. 3-4 years ago very few had it. Now things have changed, content has changed so it's a relative thing. Weird but, as time goes on content on some vehicles increase. just like airbags, abs, nav, latch system for car seats. SOOO that is her reference point, what vehicle satisfies her needs, has the new things she is interested and how much in that order. If she said to me, the mdx wood interior and memory seats are important to me then MDX would be higher on our list (except acura attitude turned her off from ever trusting/buying an acura) Hey as a guy, i like techno this and that, Women make choices differently and have different priorities, guess what she values---"if i go to the dealer will they respect me, treat me well, not think my description of the problem is "beneath" them (had a run in with the mercedes dealer on her ML320 that rolled their eyes when she said the locks are "going up and down, and locking me in the car"-----POOF after that single experience she wouldn't go back to the dealer and would not buy another mercedes. Funny men are more forgiving, but women feel vulnerable when it comes to a car. She would get the lexus, RX300 but not big enough ditto highlander, GX470--probably too high to put the baby in the carseat. Caddy, and sequoia same thing. Quality and dealer considerations rank high.
S000000000 to make a long story short the pilot satisfies all HER criteria for her, family, and baby needs. That's why this market will make it the new benchmark. The primary purchases needs will be met and the honda quality to boot.
Thanks for the information. If your Acura dealership is uncooperative and 140 miles away, an MDX definitely shouldn't be in consideration.
Sorry to hear that your '98 ML320 caused you so much trouble. I do know that the newer ones are nowhere as bad. Though they still seem to be struggling to achieve "average" quality (and may have in fact reached that point).
I can appreciate your wife's perspective. My wife likes our Acura dealership'sr service department. They've been really good with her, e.g. being responsive, not patronizing her, etc. Though I think she also knows to use a more aggressive attitude in working with them.
"... rear a/c heat controls with fan ..."
Hmmm. this is something I haven't seen confirmation on, and I've been curious about.
Does the Pilot have separate fan and A/C+heating controls for the rear?
I've seen word that the EX has automatic climate control for "first and second row." I've seen reviews that say it has 2nd row vents, but no mention of separate controls. Can someone who has the brochure or has sat in a Pilot confirm what the rear controls are like?
The Wieck site shows a photo of the rear unit and it has what _appears_ to have a single knob in between the vents. Does that knob open and close the rear vents based on temperature? Does it also control fan speed?
I don't think it's the same as the MDX. Its unit can separately control the fan speed and temperature for the second row. It's actually a separate HVAC subsystem to itself, with its own elements. Not a big deal to some buyers, obviously, and a way Honda could price the Pilot more aggressively by omitting it.
I think it's hilarious that the biggest problem some reviewers can find in the Pilot is the location of the shifter. Geeeez. There is no shifter that could be in a poorer position than the one in my less than reliable Tribute. Oh well. I guess every car has to have a weak point.
Comments
Bob
A couple of dealers have gotten official part numbers for the "roof rack" (it is NOT called "roof rails"). Technically you can't buy the roof rails for the LX separately (without the cross members) but you can buy the "roof rack" which is a set of the rails with the cross members.
The pricing of the roof rack is above the cross members (which one buys for the EX), which makes sense since the "roof rack" includes the rails.
The Pilot web site also says the "roof rails" are not available for the LX, but now I'm pretty sure it's because, technically, you can't get the roof rails alone for the LX. In other words, the table shown on the web site is just a literal interpretation, and a deceiving one.
Is the brochure set up the same way? And also, does the brochure list all accessories, and if it does, does it list, in addition to "cross members", a "roof rack"?
On the spare ...
Is the spare a full-diameter spare that just isn't as wide as the regular tires, or is it not full-diameter? The MDX has the latter. Some owners have gone through the hassle of getting a true full-sized spare, though it makes the tire stick down lower under the car.
-mike
Bob
It's not standard equipment for the LX because LX owners don't necessarily want to pay for something they might not have a need for. But one can add them to the LX as an accessory, so it shouldn't be a problem.
For the roof rack that comes standard on the Honda Pilot EX, you still need by the Crossbars (just like you do on the CRV) to make it functional (+ ski or bike attachment if you want)..The Crossbars retail for $170.
Online, looks like they can be had for $232 and $132 respectively from a reputable dealer. I can't confirm if the LX Roof Rack Option includes the Crossbars or not.
-mike
If that's not a typo, then the LX "roof rack" accessory holds less than the EX standard roof rails + accessory cross members (150 lbs).
So what else would you consider, i told my wife, the mdx becomes a more reasonable choice AND if acura changes there attitude
But seriously, what alternatives would you consider. As above there are alternatives to the Nav system, alpine, magellan, pioneer etc. My quess the "gouge" will end in the fall as they annouce new '03 models and people get a view of the choices.
My "choices if gouged"--which immediately triggers my "never return to the dealer policy"
MDX--conditional based on attitude
SEQUOIA AND ADD NAV
LEXUS GX470
CADDY ESCALADE/ YUKON XL WITH ONSTAR AND NAV.
Your opinions please, because all of you who want to buy a Pilot may not because of dealer attitude (aka acura). I didn't buy an acura rl(me), or tl(wife) because of the attitude about the mdx. When are dealers going to realize that we don't buy just one vehicle in a lifetime and gouged buyers have long memories.
as an aside--
They had one of those gusteswagan tank mercedes suv also, it's not as bad looking in person than i thought and more room inside than the land rover, but your talking 80+k $$$$$ The commercial if you haven't seen it is a hoot. For the front barrier collision test it just goes though it and the wall!!!
But given that you already have an ML320, why not buy a 2003 or a 2003? Assuming that the price is not an issue, aren't you accustomed to the rather "German" ride of the ML? The 2002's have a LOT of improvements over the older model you have, and overall quality may have finally improved to just average.
And now I hear the Odyessy has a similar situation. I give up...
Bob
They were selling the Ody at MSRP. They still may. I verified that with them. They are a small dealer thought so all salesperson is the same. They may still sell it at that price.
But when I called for the Pilot, they were asking $1500 over. I was disappointed for that part.
Probably the further that you go from the big cities, you can get a better deal. Less people probably also means less demand and lower rent so they can sell it cheaper.
Of course, waiting for the madness to calm a little probably helps. Just reminder if you paid too much more over MSRP, you will be paying for a MDX and getting a Pilot.
Just a thought.
I'm in no hurry. I already have that '03 MDX on order. I probably will buy the MDX instead. I like the tech toys.
I know merced honda is only selling Pilot's for MSRP (they said they never sell anything over that...wish I had the cash for an S2000 also). I just put my Sagebrush order in the other day and they had a very short Pilot wait list, even a couple coming in that were available (EX/EX-L in Silver or Red), although that may change quickly. You can email me if you want the specific salesman I dealt with (very easy to deal with...actually, you don't have to "deal" with him at all).
Also I heard mendo lake Honda (in Ukiah) is another MSRP dealer.
Both only a couple hours from the bay area..worth the trip
I'll enjoy a test drive from the MSRP +3K dealer down the street even more as I walk out the door
ps...Steve/Host...thanks for the clarification.
as far as I've seen in all the forums there has been no confirmaton on any changes to the 2003 MDX (rumors of 3.8L engine, HID's etc...are unproven, but certainly possible...would assume a price bump if it proves true)...prices for those "on order" (or really waitlist) are not fixed, other than MSRP +/- X just like the pilot was until last week)
Worst comes to worst, I'll get the Pilot if it's too much.
I am pretty sure that there will be changes to differ it from the Pilot. Otherwise, why pay more for the Acura?
The items mentioned like bigger engine, HID, VSC all make sense and fall within Acura. $500-$700 is worth it IMO.
2. I keep reading comparisons,price wise, of Pilot EX-L and base MDX. If I am not mistaken there is a 5G price difference between the two, even with the dealer markup. That makes it apples/oranges to most people(sorry for the cliche) I would think.
3. Over 40 posts about roof racks, my god, is this what it has come down to. Man we are chompn' at the bit for this car.
4. Have a safe and sane Memorial weekend everyone!
Cheers.
Check out http://www.sportsrack.com/ for Western US locations.
http://www.nctd.com/review-intro.cfm?ReviewID=1195
The word I got from Atamian and Herb Chambers-Burlington is that they are working out the pricing details, whatever that means.
I have email into Boch and Clair asking about pricing, but I've had no response from either.
-stuartc
AutoWeek made an interesting observation. Perhaps this has been discussed before, but the Pilot's MSRP is actually lower than the Passport's. (Not that the Passport ever sold at MSRP).
I'm not a fan of paying over MSRP, but if the vehicle is worth it, I'll pay.
Best Regards
In my MDX, the 40% portion of the second row that slides forward for third-row seat access will lock into the slid-forward position. I don't know if it's designed specifically to do that, however, and how secure the lock is. Though it seems sturdy.
What the Pilot has that the MDX doesn't is that both the 60% and 40% portions can slide forward.
Do I go looking for cars to buy at over MSRP? Nope - I like a bargain as much as the next guy. But to many people, getting a Pilot or other hot vehicle over MSRP IS a bargain. If it isn't a bargain to you, DON'T BUY ONE. It's as simple as that.
MSRP is a made-up number. Dealer can sell for whatever he wants. It's called the free market. As many others have said,if the price is more than you want to pay, don't buy. In a free market economy, that's your choice, you vote with your chequebook. Or mosey on over to one of Honda's competitors where I'm sure that you can wrangle some big juicy discount off their (overinflated) MSRP.
I bought my Ody at Chambers and at the time they were MSRP with no add ons but recently I've seen Odys there with $995 for Simonize, etc.
Good Luck.
I agree Woody, I've waited this long I can wait a few extra days. Maybe they'll have a big "Pilot Launch" party for us on the 3rd ?;-)
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
MSRP is a made-up number. Dealer can sell for whatever he wants. It's called the free market
>>
MSRP is not a made up number as you say. Honda prices each of it's models according to what they feel will be the most competitive for this vehicle. MSRP also includes various other costsm like freight, advertising, the cost of the warranty, etc.
I agree that alot of cars are overinflated price-wise. That is purely to show a discount to the consumer. This shows up in the dealerships as a consumer who says.."XYZ company is giving $$$ off on their car...or $$$cash back...or Free Money". The unfortunate thing is that even at the discounted price, the consumer is buying a car that they won't be happy with 5years down the road. Thats the real test.
Jerry
I have ml320 98 22 visits to my dealer and my wife was locked IN the car due to weird psycho door locks. Perhaps ML has improved in quality, but why take a chance that is why I will (my wife's choice here) go with PIlot after she test drives it. Acura dealer turned her off--if they treat me like that, what will the service guy treat me like when i have a problem--it's also 140 miles away--acura attitude tells me i may not be able to trust service....i'm not about to send my wife 140miles to a place she is not comfortable with. Now she loves the Lexus dealer, i could get her a lexus, but she doesn't like the lift height for a baby seat (lx470) and if the pilot works out she wouldn't want to spend more than necessary. Though the PIlot has less lux than others, what it does have when compared to the last time she went shopping for a vehicle is what matters to her. e.g. rear a/c heat controls with fan. 3-4 years ago very few had it. Now things have changed, content has changed so it's a relative thing. Weird but, as time goes on content on some vehicles increase. just like airbags, abs, nav, latch system for car seats. SOOO that is her reference point, what vehicle satisfies her needs, has the new things she is interested and how much in that order. If she said to me, the mdx wood interior and memory seats are important to me then MDX would be higher on our list (except acura attitude turned her off from ever trusting/buying an acura)
Hey as a guy, i like techno this and that, Women make choices differently and have different priorities, guess what she values---"if i go to the dealer will they respect me, treat me well, not think my description of the problem is "beneath" them (had a run in with the mercedes dealer on her ML320 that rolled their eyes when she said the locks are "going up and down, and locking me in the car"-----POOF after that single experience she wouldn't go back to the dealer and would not buy another mercedes. Funny men are more forgiving, but women feel vulnerable when it comes to a car. She would get the lexus, RX300 but not big enough ditto highlander, GX470--probably too high to put the baby in the carseat. Caddy, and sequoia same thing. Quality and dealer considerations rank high.
S000000000 to make a long story short the pilot satisfies all HER criteria for her, family, and baby needs. That's why this market will make it the new benchmark. The primary purchases needs will be met and the honda quality to boot.
Bob
http://www.mag-x.com/index_ie.html
Sorry to hear that your '98 ML320 caused you so much trouble. I do know that the newer ones are nowhere as bad. Though they still seem to be struggling to achieve "average" quality (and may have in fact reached that point).
I can appreciate your wife's perspective. My wife likes our Acura dealership'sr service department. They've been really good with her, e.g. being responsive, not patronizing her, etc. Though I think she also knows to use a more aggressive attitude in working with them.
"... rear a/c heat controls with fan ..."
Hmmm. this is something I haven't seen confirmation on, and I've been curious about.
Does the Pilot have separate fan and A/C+heating controls for the rear?
I've seen word that the EX has automatic climate control for "first and second row." I've seen reviews that say it has 2nd row vents, but no mention of separate controls. Can someone who has the brochure or has sat in a Pilot confirm what the rear controls are like?
The Wieck site shows a photo of the rear unit and it has what _appears_ to have a single knob in between the vents. Does that knob open and close the rear vents based on temperature? Does it also control fan speed?
I don't think it's the same as the MDX. Its unit can separately control the fan speed and temperature for the second row. It's actually a separate HVAC subsystem to itself, with its own elements. Not a big deal to some buyers, obviously, and a way Honda could price the Pilot more aggressively by omitting it.
On a side note, I bought my '00 Ody in Dec. '99 at The Honda Store and got a $500 discount.