Honda Pilot 2003 through 2005

lij

I am in southern California, and I have been calling around to find a dealer that would guarantee MSRP, but have not had any luck. I need help. Anyone knows a dealer that would give MSRP? Appreciate very much!!!

varmint

Homerg - To a certain extent, even unit body designs will use a frame to buttress the body. If you read the literature produced by some manufacturers, you'll find that they sometimes remark on using additional crossmembers/supports to strengthen a unit design. I'm no expert on when a ladder frame design becomes a unit body, but I assume that there are grey areas in between.

The "frame" you are thinking of is the shell that forms the body of the vehicle. I don't see a pic for the Pilot, but here's one for the CR-V. This is probably more along the lines of what you were expecting. Note that even the CR-V's frame has rails running through it.

ssminton

I put my name on a list back in March for MSRP. When I stopped by the dealer last week to pick up the brochure, they indicated that they were no longer taking deposits as of mid-April. Their plan is to fulfil existing "orders" and then sell incoming Pilot's at "market value". They are a top Ody dealer who has always sold at MSRP or below. Will be interesting to see if this new Pilot strategy sticks... may be worth a call.

Please email me directly (click on id) if you want specific dealer info... Will be hitting the slopes of Mammoth the next few days (12+ inches of new powder!) so I will not be able to respond 'til later in the week.

minliang_c

One of the Honda dealer in CA bayarea called me last week to ask me to put down $500 deposit for a pilot that I had requested info for. They are selling for $3K makeup.
I said "Thanks, but NO, thanks".

wmquan

Are they crazy? There have been some folks in California who have reported buying MDX's at MSRP, without forced accessories, but with a wait (takes some effort to find them, but they're out there).

Doesn't make sense to spend $3k above MSRP when it hits MDX base territory, IMHO. They're just trolling for victims.

Being the new vehicle on the block, a lot of dealers are going to try to take advantage.

Anyone putting a deposit down on a Pilot should have noted on the paper you sign what your price is going to be (e.g. if it's MSRP you're willing to pay, use "selling price = MSRP + destination + TTL"), as well as "all accessories optional," and "deposit refundable at buyer's discretion."

When I put in my reservation for the MDX, I had the sales manager (not a sales associate) write the above into the document and initial it (along with my initials, plus the usual signatures at the bottom). And I paid for my deposit with a credit card. This despite the fact that my Acura dealership is good (especially its service department).

This helps protect you from last-minute +MSRP games, or the other favorite trick from some of the slimier Acura dealerships -- forcing you to buy accessories with the vehicle, either at list or at ridiculously inflated prices. Unfortunately, what it doesn't protect you from is a dealer selling a Pilot out from under you. E.g. there were some bad MDX dealers that had folks waiting interminably long, and the vehicles were actually coming in, but being sold to someone else willing to pay more.

I'd assume Honda's ordering system is the same as Acura's. When you put in a deposit for a vehicle that's not going to be delivered for a while, there's no order for you at Honda's plant. You just end up in a manifest held and maintained by the dealer.

stuartc

Hi all:

Does anyone know when the moonroof will be an available factory option and what the additional cost might be ?

Thanks,

-stuartc

wmquan

Here is the facetious answer:

After the MDX is upgraded.

(So that there is more differentiation between the Pilot and MDX, thus leaving more pricing room to upgrade the Pilot).

Here is the realistic answer:

I don't think anyone outside of Honda knows when a moonroof will be available. Honda is notoriously tight-lipped, and they're not going to hurt initial Pilot sales by saying when the Pilot might get upgraded and in what way. Heck, we didn't know pricing on the Pilot until a week or so ago.

rms41

A single CD system is standard in both LX and EX. The EX gets more power, 155 watts vs. 120 watts, and more speakers, 7 vs. 4, and a cassette player. Based on previous posts it seems you can get a 6 CD in-dash as a DIO.

02_ody_exles

If I can't find a Pilot for MSRP, I might as well buy an MDX. It comes with more standard options for a similar price. Does anyone know if you can get the DVD Entertainment System on the MDX? That may keep me in the Pilot market.

Shane

stuartc

Thanks wmquan. I spoke with a Honda salesman last week and I thought he'd mentioned that a moonroof would be offered sometime next year. I called him today to verify and he now says that he has no information about Honda adding a moonroof to the Pilot.

It'll be interesting to see if the Honda dealers add markup over MSRP to the extent it would push someone like me who wants a moonroof into the MDX camp. (Not that that's a bad thing !!! I can get an MDX at MSRP and the MDX sure has a full complement of nice amenities.)

-stuartc

giovannetti

One of the dealers I had made inquiries a couple of months back called me yesterday. They wouldn't take deposits back then because they did not have price info.

- "Are you still interested in the Honda Pilot?"
- "Yes. Sure. What have you got?"
- "Oh, they just released the prices so I can get you on an EX-L, that's what you wanted right?"
- "Yeap."
- "OK. I can get you one for $33,680 in 2-3 weeks"
- "What? Come on now. That is way over MSRP!!"
- "Well. We expect high demand on this vehicle, just like the Odyssey. I don't even know how much is MSRP" - (yeah, right)
- "Well. I'm not interested. I already have a deposit with another dealer that is going to sell it to me for MSRP"
- "Wait. They are just telling you that. Then they will add the apearance package for $1500. I know it"
- "What is that?"
- "You know. Pin stripes, mud flaps, floor mats. At least I'm being up front with you" (yeah, right)
- "It's OK. I have MSRP and No extras down in paper with my dealer. Good luck trying to sell above MSRP"
- "If it doesn't work out... give me a call..."
- "Oh sure"
-Click.

After I hung up I thought of another two things I could have told him.
1) Your profit at MSRP is already $3000 (check invoice prices at collegehillshonda). Trying to make a $6000 profit in one car is VERY obsene
2) At that price it would be almost absurd not to buy an MDX instead (not to mention a used one for maybe less). Some people say the demand will determine the price. I guarantee you they will see the demand for Pilots drop dramatically if the price gets that close to the MDX. You want to play free market?. Let's do it!

moonkat

Let the games begin....=}

lok888

I want to see if Honda can make a nicer edition of the new CR-V. I think I saw it on one auto show. It is everything in silver, door handles, mirrors, and bumpers. It showed with color-keyed running boards, aggressive looking front bumper with fog lights and bigger custom wheels.

nofeer

With nav, will there be a single cd player in the dash, or would i have to get the changer?

I agree with the above. as honda does what acura does and loses degrades it's customer relations, why not buy a mdx, acura now has competition from it's own family. as pilot goes up in $$$$ the mdx can't do the same if had to pay 3k more than get the mdx and not use that dealer. Now what about the wait for an mdx or 03 mdx. I think the honda dealers have fantasies of megaprofits and some may bite, but like me i can wait i'd even wait for an mdx. Let them think twice about upcoming products, poor dealer relations "prevented" me from buying an acura RL and got a lexus.

wmquan

Ha! I enjoyed reading your convo with the gouging dealer.

mhenderson1

Acura/Honda Dealers have gotten so greedy with thoughts of money in their hands, that they do not see the big picture. Consumers will bolt to other dealers fast. How can there marketing even fathom charging a customer with a dealer mark-up which is similar to the MSRP of their more luxurious sister model (MDX). Why not sale the MDX and call it quits. This trickery is to let you think you are getting a good deal on an SUV when you're not. And this is for a first year model SUV. Although they have been getting recalls after recalls, The chevy Trailblazer is looking good right now. I'm also assuming that when the new MDX (3.8 liter) come out, many will trade their earlier models in. Mmmmm....maybe I can get a good used one in the fall.

diploid

When I grow up, I'm planning on getting a used MDX.

mhenderson- That's the beauty of a capitalist market.

mhenderson1

is good when it does not involve deception and trickery. I would have more respect for dealers if they came up front and stated how much they were going to charge rather than trying to sucker you in for something that may be well above your means. And the American consumer should demand the same. If and when I decide to give up on Honda/Acura (which is soon from the way things are going), I know in a year, I will be barraged by phone calls from various dealers saying "I have a great deal for you today, please come on in...." I guess I'll just introduce them to "Mr. Click"......Click.

mredden1

If the plans to upgrade the MDX are true, this might be the one and only chance to cross shop the two vehicles when the price gap is this narrow. If the Pilot is sold for more than MSRP, I can see the attraction to upgrade to the MDX.
On the other hand if there is a significant upgrade to the MDX next year, it seems to me that the value of the 2002 and prior years' MDX's will drop. Purchasers will want to buy a real Acura MDX, not an Acura Pilot.

bobw92

1) My Pilot build date is May 19-23, so it should be finished on Thursday. Does anyone know how long it takes to get from the plant to the dealer?

2) The Pilot brochure shows an available towing package. the dealer claims he has no info on the price. Has anyone heard what the tow package costs??

Thanks, Bob

locomo

After the new pricing finally came out, and with the additional $460 delivery charge and (at my dealer's) a $320 charge for paperwork, I cancelled my $500 deposit on an EX-L. I'll either try to get the LX at that place in Georgia for under MSRP, wait for a used MDX, or "settle" for this year's 4Runner at $1300 under invoice.

locomo

Bob, my dealer here in Tenn. said he'd "give" me the tow package of the tranmission and power steering coolers at his cost of $700. That's still without the hitch and receiver. Then there's the earlier thread about the Pilot's plug only having 4 pins instead of 5 and it's causing me to think hard about a Toyota.

lij

Fellow readers

Do you guys think that it is a good idea to write a letter collectively to Honda USA about dealer charging over MSRP, and the potential of lossing loyal customers?

kullenberg

Wait for the 2003 4Runner, due out in Sept.; it looks to be a 7/8 scale Land Cruiser at 4Runner prices. See the 4Runner discussion here on Town Hall.

zorglub

Well,

Each time, somebody buys a Honda, Honda US does a survey asking to rate your buying experience. Now, if the buyers who were ripped a few $K would get back at the dealership by giving them really bad grades on the survey, maybe things would improve. My understanding is that car allocation is based on multiple factors including customer satisfaction. That way, if customer satisfaction would go down at the gouging dealers, that would stop the madness.
One can only dream...

diploid

Another review at thecarconnection.com:

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=4925&sid=181&n=157

zorglub

Just went through a few posts on that board. It actually looks like a possible alternative to the Pilot, which would be great to keep the price in check. I don't plan on buying until November, so I'm hoping to be able to get MSRP.

minliang_c

Do you think the dealer that tells you the mark-up price upfront is not going to add other options in to maximum the profit? Then you're lucky.
Just look at MDX, everytimes when they call me to let me know new ones arrived at the dealership, there're always add-on options, could be an expensive option as towing package or as small as wheel locks ... but always something. And usually you have to pay full price on these options. I don't mind these useful options, but this is the way dealer and manufacture maximumize their profit on high demand cars.

bengelking

Write it in the contract with your deposit. My contract states "MSRP" and "dealer add-on's at installed cost" at my option, not the dealers.

One other dealer in the area is selling at $2,000 over MSPR, but that includes "popular add-on's" that they put on without your consent. More like "dealer profit padding". If people are smart and shop around, we have two dealers doing the add-on thing and two selling at MSRP.

I want the towing package as well. My Acura dealer is charging $750 for the coolers and hitch package so I'm assuming that Honda will come in pretty close to that.

The rest of the options I plan on buying and installing myself.....except for maybe the fog lights since it appears that holes in the bumper are required.

paisan

What are you towing? I'm pretty experienced in towing stuff, and am curious what you plan to tow behind the Pilot.

-mike

homerg

Thanks for the reply to the frame question. It does look to me that Honda has put a little more into the underside of the Pilot than your average minivan. But I'm far from being really informed about what makes a strong frame.

mynewpilot

The honda site has some new pictures and videos including a 360 degree view of the interior.

http://pilot.honda.com/

It also has all the colors, but I think some of the color combinations are incorrect.

diploid

EX models come with 9 beverage holders, LX models come with 7.

suvweee

I think the 2 extra beverage holders come from the kids fold down activity tray. Still seems pretty ridiculous to not be standard on the LX though.

jmurman42

with the dealers that charge over MSRP?

DON'T BUY FROM THEM!
DON'T SHOP THEM!
DON'T SERVICE FROM THEM!

How many times to you read on these boards that the "gouging dealer" has somehow mysteriously earned their business.

Don't be afraid to shop around, especially the dealers that don't gouge.

Jerry

sjwsmw

I agree with Zorglub, IF the surveys get back to Honda Corporate, that will give them an earful of the treatment of specific dealers. But only if the info gets past the dealership and into the hands of the manufacturer. Unfortunately though, no matter how loud anyone complains, they will just say that the dealer is out of their control when it comes to retail pricing practices.

rsholland

Pilot pixs here, including a number of off-road shots, as well as bare-bones chassis/engine shots. I believe there are 35 pages of Pilot images, with each page having eight images!

Some of the off-road shots will show a rear wheel well off the ground (articulation, or lack-there-of), but the fact of the matter is that the Pilots got through those sections. Also, the chassis shots suggest (by these photos) a chassis on frame design, which I know it isn't.

http://www.wieck.com/public/index.html

Just type in "2003" or "Pilot" and you'll see pages of photos.

Bob

paisan

I've seen lots of FWD and 2wd cars make it through off-road courses, doesn't mean they are good at it.

Very interesting pictures. They explain a lot, at least to me, some observations:

o Almost no downtravel on the wheels at all
o Not setup for offroading whatsoever
o Explains why it will/should have good onroad manners

-mike

rsholland

the Pilot will handle 98% of what their owners will require it to do, off road. Nobody ever claimed it to be a Rubicon-ready vehicle.

Bob

paisan

Going to a muddy soccor field should be a cakewalk for it.

-mike

lxusrules

Paisan aka Mike;

I will be towing 1200 lbs Coleman tent trailer, do I really need a towing package?
I've been towing it w/ 91 Caravan w/o towing package, I just slapped on a hitch and towed it. I don't think it caused any major problem for that car, I still have it w/ 160K miles. That car had 130 HP vs 240 HP on Pilot. Do I really have to spend $1000 for towing package? One really wonders. Maybe Honda engineer can answer this question for me.

Danny from Diamond Bar

paisan

Honda requires the towing package. Without it be prepared for a fight on any drive-train related warranty work. The tranny etc. on the Oddy and MDX is known to be overheated easily and the towing package helps to counteract this.

As for towing a 1200lb trailer the Pilot will have no problems doing that. I'd get the towing package from Honda and an aftermarket hitch setup, if the hitch isn't included in the towing package (sounds weird saying that).

I'm sure that the Honda Engineers will tell you it's fine, but it's the warranty people you have to ask.

-mike

lxusrules

How can a towing package not include a hitch? I read from their brochure that holes are pre-drilled for the hitch.
What is a fair price to pay for the towing package including hitch? Or at cost price?

paisan

I thought someone somewhere above said the towing package was just the coolers for the Tranny, engine oil and PS pump and maybe the wiring, but not the hitch itself. One would think it would include the hitch (they are usually pretty easy to install if they don't include it)

-mike

filod

Honda started to advertise the 2003 Pilot on TV. No pictures yet but this will definitely bring attention to many who are not in the know (like us?) of what is coming up. Honda loyalists, and others will start to inquire in the dealership that will always explore profit opportunities for a new product.

In the Bay Area, particularly the SF suburbs they always try to sell you over MSRP plus the arrogance of some young men telling me why I should be paying a premium because it is a Honda! My friends in the Bay Area while it feels good to tell your friends your car is hot that you pay more than MSRP, please don’t! I know you can find one

wmquan

The one for the MDX includes the hitch as well as the coolers. I'd be really surprised if the Pilot's kit didn't include it.

www.collegehillshonda.com, which has listed accessories, claims that the package includes the hitch and coolers.

markus17

~29.3K was quoted as MSRP (give or take) for the EX. For 34.7K I believe I can get an MDX that has lots of nicities and most important, a track record. (call me naive, but I believe the salesperson when they said MSRP for the MDX)

26.9K for LX. And I don't see much of substance that differentiates it from the EX for $2400.

Unfortunately, I put in an order for an EX a while ago when I was expecting it to have such things as a keyless entry and 6 CD changer (plus other stuff).

I guess I'm stuck. Wait for the LX (with a car that's dying by degrees) or get the MDX. Having been a defender of the Pilot, I guess I'm feeling a little like a [non-permissible content removed].

varmint

Re towing package: What if you wanted to go with an aftermarket hitch? I would think that most dealers would subtract the cost, but that gives them another control over the money.

wmquan

"for an EX a while ago when I was expecting it to have such things as a keyless entry and 6 CD changer"

Doesn't the EX have it? I thought the EX adds the "remote entry system" whereas on the LX it's an accessory? This based on pilot.honda.com.

But yes, the 6 CD changer seems to be an accessory. It appears to be -- but I haven't seen this confirmed -- an in-dash, magazineless unit, which is nicer than the MDX Base's under-the-front-seat, magazine-driven unit (the MDX Touring includes the in-dash, magazineless unit).

gm_litogation

Don't buy a Pilot in June.

If you can wait, wait 6 months. If everyone that was looking at the Pilot waited 6 months to buy one the dealers would get an inventory overload. In 6 months you might see Pilots selling at Invoice, or even incentives and rebates.

I don't know just a thought, but if you absolutely have to be the 1st on your block to have a Pilot then go for it. Otherwise just wait and then this topic won't be filled with MSRP, and dealer goudging posts.