Grand Honda in Chicago (Elmhurst Actually) has 8 Pilots in. I looked around two that hadn't been PDI'd yet. They had a red EX-L RES the sticker is 32,498 no options included. They had a black EX-Navi for 32,998 + 1200 for Reverse Camera System and + 300 for mudguards. The mudguards are ridiculous they should be 50-60 max and I wouldn't pay more than 500 for the backup system. Afterwards I went to the acura dealership less than 2 miles away and checked out the MDX they had 8 on the lot and seemed eager to sell. My wife still likes the MDX better because of the more upscale interior and exterior but we liked the space of the pilot better. We are still up in the air on what we are getting. Also they will have a couple ready to test drive tonight and/or tomorrow. Interest is high because we were one of 5-6 people looking at them and they had hit the ground just 1 hr earlier (know this cuz I saw the truck carrying them drive past me). So they are here and ready.
"Maybe I'll hold off and in the meantime lease a loaded Saturn VUE AWD V6 until Pilot frenzy slows down."
FYI...Leasing a Saturn VUE AWD V6.....below average residual factor(46% for 36 mo). Look at spending zero out of pocket with a monthly payment of 505.00 for 36mo 12,000 year....ouch...a lot of coin for a 27K auto. Compare that to bbnet's lease mentioned above for a 34K Pilot.
Saw some at another dealer (not the one I ordered from). Could not drive them but got to play inside.
As confirmed about five posts ago, the middle row cannot be moved forward and back when upright. However, there is TONS of legroom for the second row. Third row was also pretty comfortable. I'm 5'9" and 170 lbs and my knees did not touch the back of the second row.
The hidden cargo space behind the third row will hold all three headrests. However, that makes it virtually useless for anything else when they are in there.
I read quite a few concerns about the lack of head support from the second and third rows. I played with the headrests and they go WAY up. I would guess around 10-12" above the top of the seat. It's not pretty when they are up, but they do offer head support in the event of an accident (assuming they are used).
Driver's seat felt great (cloth and leather) and the lumbar support really kicked in.....almost to the point of too much when fully engaged. IMHO the plastic did not look great but also did not look cheap.
I can see why they did not put a sunroof in either. There are two large "indentations" above the driver's and passenger's head for the first row. I'm guessing it's to provide more headroom, but don't see where it is necessary since it's really a tall vehicle.
Speedometer really dominates the dashboard - almost too much (kind of Buick-like). Digital odomoter is combined with A and B trip odomoters and the outside temperature. Would have been nice to see a separate temperature gauge spot on the dash.
Also had no problem getting into the third row. Because of all the space between the first and second row, the second row seats slide pretty far forward.
Styling is conservative as we all saw in the brochure/internet pictures. The hood is very "Durango"-like with a big drop-off from the centerline to the headlights (more agressive than I anticipated). It's really a cross between the Durango and the Highlander in styling IMHO.
Dealer had 6 silver and 2 red on the lot fresh off the truck. Said they could not sell until Monday.
Sorry to ramble, but I hope this helps answer some questions we've all had since day 1.
I live near Philadelphia. The Pilot we put a deposit on came in. A black EX-NAV. I drove it and it handles well in corners (didn't feel mushy at all) and it had excellent acceleration. It was quiet and the gear shift was fine. The shift did, however, feel a little different because it rotates differently than the old column mounted gear shifts of old.
The space in the back is great. The engine compartment is clean and is not too congested. (That reminds me, does anyone know about how much a shop manual costs the dealership and how much the retail price is? I would think it would be around the same price as the Odyssey's.)
Our dealer is selling for MSRP + forced options totalling $1995 (Lucky me, they're letting us mix and match some of the options to make up the $1995).
Here's the breakdown: Lojack 5000 - $795 Wood trim pkg - $1095 wood steering - $695 tow pkg - $1695 rear view camera - $1695 Backup Sensor - $1195 air deflector - $299 door mirror covers - $299 fogs - $695 cross bars - $349 pro pkg (locks/muds/tray) - $449 [this one is mandatory] side steps - $899 rack/bars - $449
The option package we were originally offered includes: Roof Rack/Crossbars Splash Guards Wheel Locks Cargo Tray Side Steps Cargo Cover
Anyone have any thoughts? I'm thinking it might be a good idea to get the Lojack (I might make up the money on my insurance premium over time) and to ask for a shop manual (I'm sure they would want retail).
The dealership will not budge on the price. Apparently they are part of a larger organization that includes several dealerships and they are telling me they have orders from above. They wouldn't even give a discount on the price of the options.
The "verbal agreement' we had when we ordered was for msrp - we didn't discuss add-ons - chock it up to experience. This Hot Car game is new to us. Never even paid MSRP before...
So anyway.... beedee1, who's selling you a Pilot at MSRP?
I picked up my (wife's) Pilot today. Its everything we thought it would be. Very nice ride and quiet. I also heard a very slight tire noise but much less than my Solara (since I put Dunlop SPA2s on it). I didn't do any hard cornering so I can't comment on body roll. I'm also happy with the quality of the plastics. It was better than expected based on what I was hearing. Very roomy in the first 2 rows w/plenty of headroom. I haven't tried the 3rd row yet but my kids (6 and 9) wanted to sit back there and had no problem. The 3rd row is close to the 2nd but the curve of the back of the 2nd row seat helps with knee room. Ours is Redrock Pearl w/cloth interior. Fabric is also of good quality. The dealer had 7 other Pilots on the lot of various colors but I liked our red the best. When we ordered it we also considered the silver. Now that I see it in person I think the silver is a bit dull looking. The stereo system sounded good but I couldn't really crank it with the family along for the ride. I think bengelking nailed it when he said the styling is a cross between a Durango and a Highlander.
Do those accessory prices include installation labor?
If not, then I am afraid they're a rip. And even if they do include labor, they're still a rip.
The $695 wood steering wheel has a list price of $549, and a discounter like www.hondacuraworld.com will sell it for $429 (I think; I've ordered from them and www.ahmotor.com, and I can highly recommend hondacuraworld; ahmotor isn't too bad but I didn't like how they billed my credit card for a back-ordered item automatically!). Of course, I would not install that on my own because of the airbag.
The $1,695 camera lists for $796, discounts to $620. Even if your dealer is including installation, I find it hard to believe it should cost that much! You'd be better off buying the part from a discounter and going directly to a Honda dealer's service department and let them bill you for the hourly rate! Of course the only drawback is that the accessory is not warranteed with the vehicle, but the price difference is huge!
The $1,195 backup sensor lists for $578, and again discounts to less than that (I don't want this to be an ad for parts discounters, so I'll just say MSRP price the rest of this post!).
The $299 air deflector lists for $129 and can easily be installed yourself.
The $899 side steps list for $499. If you can handle a socket wrench and can get under your vehicle, you can install it yourself pretty easily.
I went to Dublin Honda, in Dublin CA, and I drove the Pilot. It was really nice and I would like to get one. The sales consultant said they are selling them for $2000 over MSRP. Any suggestions?
Went with a friend to the local Honda dealer and took a white EX-L for a long test drive. Good power, relatively quiet, well dampened ride. Some wind noise around the windows. Acceleration more than adequate, not as strong as the MDX. Swiss-watch smooth idle. A little rolly in the corners, but well controlled. Great brakes. Comfortable seats, good headroom and leg room in second row (didn't try 3rd row) even for me at 6'4". The stock stereo was nice, large bass speaker on the right rear of compartment. Speaker in each door. Turning the volume or bass up revealed some distortion, but at normal levels it sounds very good. 80MPH=2,300RPM. Outside temp gauge wrong, read 85-90 degrees, was definitely 105 outside. Air conditioner worked very well, cold and strong. Interior materials, shiny plastic on center console was a bit much, but the leather was pretty good. Perforation adds some feeling of thickness. Gotta say, the fabric in the LX wasn't to my liking, although it was in grey, maybe the tan would be better. Center console a little flimsy, second seat 'activity tray' is generally useless, too flat. Cups in cup-holders would have to be short or they'd spill easily. Better cup-holders in each rear side door. Lots of good cubby holes and attachment points for tie down and grocery bags. Not much hidden storage; compartment behind the 3rd seat, basically holds the head rests, that's it. Engine compartment is clean and uncluttered. Pricing? Not gonna comment except to say they added a 'market adjustment' of $2500 and accessories (rack, side-steps, tint, etc) for a grand total of $34,700 compared to $30,900 MSRP. The dealer had three: white EX-L, Green EX-L and silver LX (none with DVD or NAV). NONE were spoken for. More are in on Monday. A Honda dealer in North Phoenix. OK, I can't help myself: DON'T PAY OVER MSRP! Sorry, it just slipped out. Remember, Touring edition MDX, at sticker in Phoenix, includes sunroof and multi-changer CD for $38K. Just have to order and wait. After, went out to dinner at Cracker Barrel and bought a "Kung Fu Hamster" doll for my desk at work. Very funny; dances to tune of "Kung Fu Fighting" and swings his num-chuks(sic).
I got the hard copy of the brochure today. Looks good. I really like the center tray, while I like the look of a floor level shifter, the steering wheel mounted shifter opens up a lot of space. In the MDX, the fake plastic around the shifter is easily scratched and only OK for emptying your pockets...The pilot tray, with the "basket" like sides is a nice feature. I like the rear A/C controls too. The pilot has dual front, dual stage airbags, I believe the MDX only has passenger side dual stage.
Looking at everything it offers, I think the MSRP price is a good value compared to everything else on the market and just enough below the MDX to justify both prices. Maybe it is just that Honda figured out to accurately set MSRP's? Because when you compare to buying other vehicles at invoice, both the MDX and Pilot seem to be good values.
Dealer here isn't expecting any until next week. MSRP and no extra's.
Scott Honda in West Chester, PA. I am going in today to drive my Pilot. I am still considering the MDX so I may pass on the Pilot and get my deposit back. You should not have to pay for the forced option package. What dealer are you working with in Philly? Check out Scott and also, when I started shopping, Roberts Honda in Downingtown was selling for MSRP, however, they are a small dealer and there initial allocation was only 3.
beedee - thnx - our weasley dealer is (was going to be) Wright Honda in Drexel Hill. I had called Scott a couple wks ago & dealer there said they weren't taking deposits at that time & didn't know what the prices would be. That may mean they're changing their story now that cars are in & interest is high, but I'll check them out today. If I find an MSRP dealer (in writing this time), we'll wait & pass on Wright (or go for the base MDX). This is turning me off the Pilot.
wmquan-thnx for your options info: the weasel's prices did include labor.
1. The maps are available for this country. Several other manufacturers offer nav systems (BMW for sure). Most of the maps are sourced from Navtech in any case. Aftermarket systems definitely offer Canadian mapping. 2. This is almost certainly an economic decision by Honda, not to offer the option because too few people will buy it, esp at the outrageous asking price 3. Integrated nav systems will always be significantly behind aftermarket systems because of the design lead time required to incorporate them. Aftermarket product cycles are much shorter, so you will likely see more accurate and more feature-rich systems from Garmin, Magellan etc. 4. Map licensing and distribution is certainly an issue. Canadian maps probably cost more to purchase from (say) Navtech because our government chose to follow a user-pay model in distributing them (unlike the US where Navtech can obtain pretty good basic map info for free from the gov't.) Honda and Acura simply may not feel like paying the premium. ???
Had a chance to check one out today. I think the styling looks better in person than in pictures, and should age well. Very roomy 2nd row.
However, that 3rd seat is going to be very unpopular with kids after a certain age, I think. Not to mention the hassle of getting back there. I'm beginning to think that the CR-V is equally practical for $5K less - if only it had less road noise. Oh well, I guess you can't have everything.
ASHEVILLE, N.C. — Honda's first try at the mainstream, midsize, sport-utility-vehicle market is the 2003 Pilot, an extraordinary SUV that does most things that most people would ask of it much better than rivals would. In fact, Pilot is such an extraordinary package that it could be the best all-around vehicle, SUV or otherwise. That impression is based on 466 highway miles, 131 suburban miles, and a day clambering through an off-road course here in the Pilot and in rivals....
Well had a silver locked in and loe behold, went to another dealer down the street just before picking up the silver and saw and had to have the BLUE Very fresh and new color(wife's chosen color) actually paid more than my silver deal but silver looks more like every other vehicle in the world. Go Blue Pilot !!!!!!! Got 24 miles on it , so far so good
Are you still on that darn drive?? I don't understand why all you folks have your paws on your car and down here in Georgia I'm still waiting! Not Fair, Okay enough of that. What did you people think? Is it all we dreamed it would be? Are you guys tickled, disappointed, surpised, rethinking,,what ,,,what come on now. I can't stand this any longer give up the hands on details I'm dying down here in the sticks while that are poke along with my Honda somewhere.
Varmint, I'm looking forward to reading your follow up post please give up the details.
kandor: I took a good look at the white pilot - and it almost had me switching over to it. Black is nice too; didn't like the Havasu Blue or the Redrock. But, of course, color's entirely subjective. My favorite's the Sagebrush, but I don't think I want to wait til September for it.
We just completed purchase of an EX-L at (hallelujah) MSRP, and with absolutely no other add-ons. We dealt with Peter at Kastner Honda in Napa, having struck an over-the-phone deal for MSRP -- which he honored without hesitation despite the fact that the dealership later decided to charge $1000 over MRRP on future Pilot purchases. Something to consider if anybody's on the verge of shelling out the $5000-over-MRSP-markup that some Bay Area dealers are trying to extort. It took us less than half an hour to go in, sign the paperwork and meet our new home-on-wheels. Most hassle-free vehicle purchase we've ever made....
The ride was very well damped, very smooth and quiet. I felt the handling was OK, steering is not crisp, there is a lot of body roll and it feels as large as it is. Our Highlander feels much nimbler.
Power seemed only adequite (I'm replacing a Mountaineer V8).
The third row seat is for small childern only (age 6 and under) I sat back there and although physically possible I would take a second car.
The tailgate just clears my head (I'm 5'11")
The Space in back is huge, the 3rd seat folds completely flat, the 2nd row folds forward and down but not completely flat (though not that bad).
There is a full diameter doughnut spare.
Dual outlet non chromed exhaust.
Rear wiper is on or off (no delay)
Cupholders in front have 3 stepped diameter sizes They don't seem like they will hold a large cup, but they can be moved to 2 positions in the console area.
The cloth seats are very comfortable. They also had EXL's and the leather seemed fine also.
The dual trip odometer toggles between the two settings and outside temperature.
There are nooks and crannies for stuff everywhere.
The rear seat fold down tray can not be used as an arm rest.
My conclusions.
There is a lot going for the Pilot and I may still buy one but after driving one I didn't feel that "I have to have this thing" feeling.
1)I'm going to test drive an MDX again. 2) Look for another good deal for a second Highlander Limited. (I don't need the 3rd seat but I do want the room).
3)If 1 or 2 above don't work I will buy a Pilot EX no leather or NAV.
The seats are not heated and $2000 for NAV that only works in one car and has to be traded with it(used 2001 MDX NAV adds only $800).
The cloth were fine and not hot and a Garmin Street Pilot III can go between cars.
I got a test drive on an EX Pilot at the local dealer in Fremont,CA today. They were asking firmly, $35K for it. I think it's MSRP was around $29K.
The third row is good for kids or smaller items. It had absolutely no room to stretch back there. I'm only 5' 7" and 175lbs. I don't think it will be comfortable.
The ride is very smooth just like the MDX. But the steering wheel shifter was not smooth at all. I found it hard to shift through the "D" without some fudging. (I was not impressed on it). The salesman had trouble with it also.
I was told by one salesman that you can get the navigation installed aftermarket from Honda. Is that correct?
Is that true for the MDX also?
Anyways, I did not buy it there since he wanted above MSRP.
After driving Hondas since 1988, I have bailed. I wanted a van/SUV. Almost, probably, all other makes are discounting vehicles thousands of dollars. Honda dribbles the Odyssey out and keeps the high sticker price going. I drove one and did not like it. I was going to wait for the Pilot, but after some thought, I figured that Honda would do the same thing with it as they did the van... a high MSRP plus ad on's. They did! I will not take part in that crap! Unless you get leather seats, the interior looks crappy on Hondas, and other brands too. I now have a reliable 2002 van with options that Honda does not even have and it cost me 6500 (4500 off sticker) bucks less than a Honda Pilot/Odyssey. I did not get a Kia Sedona, but even at their low MSRP, they are discounting them too. MSRP is a game folks, play or pay. Honda is a good vehicle, but Goodbye Honda!
During the test drive I couldn't get the VTM-4-wheel-drive system to engage. When depressing the dash button, should the VTM-4 light come on? Well it only come on when 4 wheel drive is needed?
Salesman did not have a clue. Couldn't even get an answer when we returned to the showroom. ???
You can't have both the Satellite Navigation System and the DVD Entertainment System!? This makes no sense at all. This was a major blunder! There are dozens of DVD players on the market that are 1 inch thick. This includes the TV and the DVD player! Honda really screwed up!
Sounds like a salesperson really versed in the vehicle! Ouch.
The VTM-4 lock button is not required for all wheels to be powered. It's just an extra mode.
Power is sent to the rear wheels when:
1) You're driving and slippage is detected; some power is routed to the rear wheels (varying amounts can be sent to each wheel). There is no visible indication this is occurring, though you may feel it sometimes.
2) When the system senses that acceleration is within certain parameters, power is also sent to the rear. There is also no visible indication when this is happening, though you're more likely to feel it (I usually can, with my MDX which has the same VTM-4 system).
3) If you need to extricate yourself from a sticky situation, you can press VTM-4 "lock". The lock will only engage under 18mph and if you are in 1st, 2nd, or reverse gears (remember, this mode is for extrication). "Lock" means that power is sent to the rear wheels, and the two rear wheels are locked (spin with each other). The lock is disengaged either by manual control, or automatically as the vehicle approaches 18mph and/or is shifted out of the 1st/2nd/reverse gear. In this mode, the light will come on.
Net-net, VTM-4 lock doesn't mean AWD, it just means you have it locked into a certain AWD mode.
I had a chance to drive a Pilot today. I'm amazed when I see that people that are about 6'2" can fit into that third row seat. I'm about 5'6" and I had about 2 inches of space between my knee caps and the second row bench seat. Then I realized that my upper thigh was partially touching the third row seat. Which means a 6'2" person whose lower leg is straight up and down must have his upper leg also partially off the third seat. So really unless you're very large or very tall, most people can fit into that back seat no matter how uncomfortable. But then the questions is asked, "Why would I get back there in the first place?"
As far as the SUV itself. It's a typical Honda with a bit of new style for the center console and the instrument gauges. It accelerates nicely. Same engine as the Odyssey but it doesn't accelerate as fast as the 2002 Odyssey I tried. This is probably due to the larger and wider tires (causing the wheel hum noted in the posts above) and the 4WD along with the larger curb weight. But it's a nice vehicle. If I don't get the price I want, I'll probably look elsewhere because I don't have to have it. I have had Ford Explorers and it definitely beats them hands down...IMHO.
This was the offer that a Honda dealer in the southwest was offering for a Silver EX
MSRP $29730 Market Adjustment $0
ADD ON STUFF Collision Package $4995 Side Step $995 Mud Flaps $299 Locking Lug Nuts $69
TOTAL $36088 not including T.T.L.
I started to walk when he said "wait we can talk" And he offered me $35500. GEE what a deal I save about 600 bucks. I told him that the collision package is just body molding and few other things that basically add up to nothing but profit for his dealership. He then offered me $34000. I said "nope" and he went to get another manager. I saw that coming and walked out of the show room. By the way you have much more leverage if you talk with the person outside of the show room because they will think they are going to lose you. That's because, the manager caught up to me and said he could give it to me for $31,500. So now I'm down to MSRP plus the $400 for the collision package and the other ADD ONS. Now I'll have to work on getting the side steps down and the mud flaps down. WMQUAN posted that the side steps are about $500 dollars so I have another $400 dollars there and probably with the mudflaps another $120 or so there to play with. The lugnuts for $69!!!!! Puhleeese!!! They may cost $30-35 at the most!
So how much lower should I go with this vehicle and it's current ADD ON's.
And...is it possible that I can order a car from this dealership without the ADD ON's (the dealer said not possible). Because I really don't want them.
Thanks for all the information on the Pilot forum. I have learned alot.
Yes, the side steps list for $499 and I have seen them discounted to $388.70 with shipping included (though I think with a $2 handling fee or something like that) (and IIRC one discounter is offering a further 10% discount for advance orders before mid-June).
The above pricing does not include installation. If it's like the MDX, you have to get under the car and do 72 bolts (36 for each one). A power wrench helps, but I don't think you need to raise the car.
The rear mud guards list for $42.00 and I've seen them discounted to $32.50. Again, if it's like the MDX, it should be pretty easy to install yourself. Two screws go on fairly easily, and the third is a bit of a pain as it requires a very short screwdriver or an L-shaped one (removing the wheel makes it easy).
Additionally, please keep in mind that eventually aftermarket vendors will have items like side steps. E.g. Manik side steps are popular with many MDX owners and are cheaper than the OEM ones.
Got a call from Miller Honda in Los Angeles today that they received the Pilot.
Salesman knew very little about the car. I had to show him how to lower the seats.
My observations: > Car felt heavy when driving and had a nice solid feel. > I thought the interior looked a bit cheap. The Highlander has a nicer looking interior. > The car I drove did NOT have a full size spare tire. > Second seat as noted in an earlier post doesn't lie down flat.
Asked the sales person about the price. He said MSRP. However, I then talked to the sales manager and he said $5K over MSRP and that the first Pilot they sold was sold for $8,500 over MSRP. I don't know if that is bull but I refuse to pay over MSRP.
I think the Pilot is more rugged and better for moderate offroad than the Highlander but I think the Highlander is a better value even with the Pilot at MSRP. The Highlander can be had for about $500 over invoice but Toyota loads the car up with options that at least I don't need.
Thanks for the advice about those sidesteps from Manik. The ones on the Pilot I test drove looked exactly like the ones on collegehillshonda.com web site. Those should be OEM right?
And now that you mention those splash guards. I also saw them at Collegehills for $31.25. I forgot to look to see if the splash guards were for all wheel wells or just the rear ones as shown in Collegehills. Either case it's still cheaper than $299.00 which means more profit for dealer.
Yes, the side steps on collegehillshonda.com are OEM. I'm not even sure if the Maniks for the MDX will fit the Pilot. Manik themselves will probably know pretty soon.
I'm fairly sure the mud guards (splash guards) are for the rear, and that the Pilot comes with front mud guards.
If the mud guards are like the MDX's, they're not body-colored, just black. I'm not a detailing nut, but I do know some folks have tried getting theirs painted. However, the mud guards are of a flexible type of plastic so paint may not hold as well.
I liked what I read so far. No one is justifying buying at more than MSRP.
In my opinion the MSRP for the Pilot is just the right price. I saw an EX Leather today at $30K + with a $4k markup. At $34K, hmmm I will look at others like MDX, Runner Ltd, RX300 or even the Pathfinder LE that I consider the interior quality much more superior than the Pilot I saw today.
Looks like the old CRV but bigger. But again, at MSRP of $30K, then it is a reasonable buy not with the mark up. Honda suggested price of $30 is providing enough margins for the dealership. They manufactured this much less than the MDX because of lesser quality (you can see it all over the vehicle when you compare to the MDX).
I owned two generations of Honda Accords before the current one. I consider them good cars but never paid over MSRP (nor will I consider paying one) just because it is a Honda.
If someone wants to pay more than double what Honda thinks they can profit from it, good luck to him. Not me. Keep on walking away from greedy dealership, and we will have a Pilot reasonably priced shortly.
Collision Package? That is why I have car insurance? Acura wants $750 to install the side steps. I had to get mud flaps and wheel locks when I got my MDX...$300 for the both. Too bad you can't just order vehicles right from the factory from a web page.
Enough of the Honda/Acura bashing! Just because you can walk into a Ford dealership and buy an Explorer for $500 under invoice means they are a good and non-arrogant dealer? Just because a vehicle is selling for MSRP (which the MSRP vs invoice debate is another issue altogether) means that the dealer is arrogant and not customer friendly?
As I've stated earlier, we have four dealer in our area. Three are at MSRP and the fourth is $2,000 over. However, the salesman agreed to match the other dealers prices when it came down to shelling out cash. All four salesman have been EXTREMELY helpful calling me with updates, pricing, accessories available, etc. I have no complaints about anything they have done or will do after I receive my Pilot on the 17th.
Maybe it's just the Midwestern mentality versus the coasts, but there are TONS of Honda dealers out there. Don't label them all just because one salesman at one dealership rubbed you the wrong way.
I don't think anyone is labelling Honda dealers as a whole.
I think it is good that folks are identifying those dealers that are trying to take advantage of the uninformed.
The fact that rustyjay was initially quoted $36,000 for a Pilot EX and the dealer promptly dropped down to $31,500 (still $1,500 over MSRP) is evidence that SOME dealers are hoping to take advantage of uninformed or less savvy consumers.
And don't think that American Honda doesn't know about and condone these practices. The Odyssey and MDX are two other examples of dealers using similar tactics to pad their pockets. This activity is so rampant that there is even a website devoted to posting messages about good and bad Acura dealers.
There are many good Honda and Acura dealers out there selling at MSRP and not playing games. Unfortunately, Honda and Acura also have more than their share of greasy haired, Armani clad crooks.
I've been looking at the Pilot online since April. I requested pricing on an EX with leather in April and stated that if the price was right I would put give a deposit in June for July or August delivery.
I finally received pricing from an "internet" manager at the local honda dealership(in writing) on May 18th. The quote was for @ $400 over MSRP. I explained that I wanted to test drive as soon as one arrives and would then provide a deposit at the quoted price if I liked it. The Pilots arrived on the lot on Friday 5/30 and I test drove on the same day. We liked the car and pursued the deposit at the quoted price.
Now the dealership is telling me that their manager is insisting on @ $2,000 in dealer add-ons (echo, running boards, etc). Can they do this when they've already provided a quote in writing? I've been talking to my rep weekly for several weeks and now they try to pull this? Isn't this otherwise known as "bait and switch"?
Now my rep is claiming she'll talk to her manager tomorrow and let me know.
There are lots of "post your good (and not so good) dealers" discussions around Town Hall - mostly in the Owners Clubs and Smart Shopper boards. Or google for more. Steve Host SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
We sat in the new Pilot on Friday night. We have been going back and forth between this and the Odyssey. Well, with 3 kids, much too small. No leg room in the third seat and difficult to get into. The middle seat in the second row was awful. Because of the "activity tray" the back of the seat was extremely uncomfortable. Bothered us after just a few minutes. This is a great vehicle for a family of 4 or less. Now we are off to looking at the Toyota Sequoia with the TRD package. Hope you enjoy your new car.
rsholland wrote: "Collision Package $4995?? What the heck is that?"
The collision package is basically small amounts of body molding placed in strategic areas to prevent door dings. I won't pay for the collision package and the dealer realized that by dropping the price by $5000 almost instantly.
bengelking wrote: "Maybe it's just the Midwestern mentality versus the coasts, but there are TONS of Honda dealers out there. "
Actually the Honda Dealership I went to was very courteous and helpful. They didn't try to pressure a sale and I wasn't made to feel like if I didn't buy the car, that I would miss out on an opportunity. BUT, I wasn't going to pay a $6000 markup on their vehicle either for the ADD ONS. Since they won't budge from MSRP, I'll have to negotiate the ADD ONS. $5000 down and another $750 to $1000 to go. If I came across as the salesperson acting arrogant, he wasn't. Those of us on the West Coast have nice dealers too.
Took delivery of my Pilot EX - silver/cloth, yesterday. Great truck. Also looked at the red and the Havesu blue, both with the gray leather. I was surprised at how much I liked the cloth. These seats are amazingly comfortable . . Big and supportive. Paid MSRP exactly at Sierra Honda in Monrovia, CA. Dealt with Ellen - extremely customer oriented, easy to deal with, and genuinely appreciative of my business. So far, the Pilot's just terrific. A bit large, at first, compared to the RX-300. Found that I very quickly got used to it's size. My dog seems far away when both rows of seats are down . . .but as soon as I blast the cold air from the rear ducts, he perks up and gets very close! The engine in this truck is a total gem. Very refined, smooth, and seemingly efficient. I'll ck. in and post MPG as soon as I know. Peter
I picked up my black EX yesterday and have driven it about 100 miles. It really feels big! Of course my previous car was an Accord coupe so I guess any SUV would seem big to me. It has a nice solid feel but I noticed what I think is some gas tank sloshing when I stop. I think someone reported this for the Ody as well. The shifter has a different feel and motion than other column shifters I've used but I'm already getting used to it. No big deal.
Got mine at Motor Werks in Barrington, IL (Chicago suburb) for MSRP and no forced options. Dealer had a fairly long list of available options. I opted for some rear mud flaps and a cargo organizer, which is basically a heavy canvas container that goes behind the third row to help hold stuff. It collapses down when not in use.
No one said that Ford and other dealers are always good either. On the other hand, when you have a new in demand product such as the Pilot, the rats will come out. They are easy to spot. Kind of like the one dealer in four in your area that was charging more than MSRP. Once they heard you could buy it elsewhere for less, then they offered MSRP. How nice of them! At that point unless they had offered under MSRP, I would have made my way over to one of the three other reputable dealers instead. Don't reward the greedy!
Oh My. Tell me this is not true. I have 3 2yo girls and a 9 yo to haul this is a nightmare for me to hear! I have been waiting (still waiting) to see one in person and drive so all I know is what I get from these boards. Do others feel the same? I have the Ody now and have two booster seats in the third row and one in a middle captain chair and my 9yo sit's in between the girls in the third row! Is this car that small that it can not accomadate my kids safely and comfortably? Do any of you that have actually seen the car agree with the poster earlier saying no good for his family of 4? I have had my Black EX-L RES on order since Jan 02 I'm getting very nervous reading this posters comments on the board. Please give more impressions or thoughts on this not being a "family" car. Any thoughts as to why my dealer is georgia has not gotten their allocation yet when all of you seem to have seen, driven or purchased yours already?
Although I have not driven one, my closest dealer had 5 on the lot and I got in one today. 2 were black, 1 silver, 1 Havasu, and one dark green. I did not like the black, because it looked much too monochrome and plain. It might look good with a nice pinstripe or other trim pieces. The Havasu was not bad at all, like I had expected from all the other comments. Headroom was tremendous in the first two rows. The front seats were very comfortable. The 2nd row seats were a little stiff even on the side seats. Much better when I reclined them. The third row truly is only for small children. The honeycomb around the center console does look kinda cheap. I think that the LX is an excellent value. The EX cloth is a good value. The EX-L is an average value. The DVD and Navigation ones to me are a little pricey at MSRP. They make the MDX, Envoy XL, and 2003 Expedition look much more appealing. Hopefully, I will get to drive the Pilot soon. If you have three kids, stick to the Odyssey. The Pilot is too small for comparable comfort.
I agree about the good dealers out there. I just don't understand why anyone would even frequent a dealer that is charging over MSRP. However, if a dealer is able to get someone to buy one at over MSRP, good for the dealer. An uninformed consumer who is silly enough not to do their homework deserves to be taken advantage of.
As far as size goes, I don't see where the Pilot is too big or too small for any type of family. You cannot "generalize" its size. Some people think a CRV is great for a family of 5, others cannot be in anything below an Excursion or Suburban for the same size family. No vehicle will be all things to all people. Get in one and drive it.
IMHO it's actually much easier to get into the third row in the Pilot than the MDX (especially having both sides fold up). I was not uncomfortable at all in the third row and I'm sure kids won't mind being back there (my son has already announced that he wants his booster back there). Again, to each their own.
Hi I saw the Pilot yesterday. It looks a little nicer in person than in pictures. We also have an Odyssey. The Pilot is bigger than I thought but not as big as the Odyssey. The thing with the pilot is the 2nd seat is a pretty wide bench. Looks like you can fit 3 kids there. Don't expect as much interior room as your Ody. Hope this helps
Comments
FYI...Leasing a Saturn VUE AWD V6.....below average residual factor(46% for 36 mo). Look at spending zero out of pocket with a monthly payment of 505.00 for 36mo 12,000 year....ouch...a lot of coin for a 27K auto. Compare that to bbnet's lease mentioned above for a 34K Pilot.
As confirmed about five posts ago, the middle row cannot be moved forward and back when upright. However, there is TONS of legroom for the second row. Third row was also pretty comfortable. I'm 5'9" and 170 lbs and my knees did not touch the back of the second row.
The hidden cargo space behind the third row will hold all three headrests. However, that makes it virtually useless for anything else when they are in there.
I read quite a few concerns about the lack of head support from the second and third rows. I played with the headrests and they go WAY up. I would guess around 10-12" above the top of the seat. It's not pretty when they are up, but they do offer head support in the event of an accident (assuming they are used).
Driver's seat felt great (cloth and leather) and the lumbar support really kicked in.....almost to the point of too much when fully engaged. IMHO the plastic did not look great but also did not look cheap.
I can see why they did not put a sunroof in either. There are two large "indentations" above the driver's and passenger's head for the first row. I'm guessing it's to provide more headroom, but don't see where it is necessary since it's really a tall vehicle.
Speedometer really dominates the dashboard - almost too much (kind of Buick-like). Digital odomoter is combined with A and B trip odomoters and the outside temperature. Would have been nice to see a separate temperature gauge spot on the dash.
Also had no problem getting into the third row. Because of all the space between the first and second row, the second row seats slide pretty far forward.
Styling is conservative as we all saw in the brochure/internet pictures. The hood is very "Durango"-like with a big drop-off from the centerline to the headlights (more agressive than I anticipated). It's really a cross between the Durango and the Highlander in styling IMHO.
Dealer had 6 silver and 2 red on the lot fresh off the truck. Said they could not sell until Monday.
Sorry to ramble, but I hope this helps answer some questions we've all had since day 1.
The space in the back is great. The engine compartment is clean and is not too congested. (That reminds me, does anyone know about how much a shop manual costs the dealership and how much the retail price is? I would think it would be around the same price as the Odyssey's.)
Our dealer is selling for MSRP + forced options totalling $1995 (Lucky me, they're letting us mix and match some of the options to make up the $1995).
Here's the breakdown:
Lojack 5000 - $795
Wood trim pkg - $1095
wood steering - $695
tow pkg - $1695
rear view camera - $1695
Backup Sensor - $1195
air deflector - $299
door mirror covers - $299
fogs - $695
cross bars - $349
pro pkg (locks/muds/tray) - $449 [this one is mandatory]
side steps - $899
rack/bars - $449
The option package we were originally offered includes:
Roof Rack/Crossbars
Splash Guards
Wheel Locks
Cargo Tray
Side Steps
Cargo Cover
Anyone have any thoughts? I'm thinking it might be a good idea to get the Lojack (I might make up the money on my insurance premium over time) and to ask for a shop manual (I'm sure they would want retail).
The dealership will not budge on the price. Apparently they are part of a larger organization that includes several dealerships and they are telling me they have orders from above. They wouldn't even give a discount on the price of the options.
The "verbal agreement' we had when we ordered was for msrp - we didn't discuss add-ons - chock it up to experience. This Hot Car game is new to us. Never even paid MSRP before...
So anyway.... beedee1, who's selling you a Pilot at MSRP?
If not, then I am afraid they're a rip. And even if they do include labor, they're still a rip.
The $695 wood steering wheel has a list price of $549, and a discounter like www.hondacuraworld.com will sell it for $429 (I think; I've ordered from them and www.ahmotor.com, and I can highly recommend hondacuraworld; ahmotor isn't too bad but I didn't like how they billed my credit card for a back-ordered item automatically!). Of course, I would not install that on my own because of the airbag.
The $1,695 camera lists for $796, discounts to $620. Even if your dealer is including installation, I find it hard to believe it should cost that much! You'd be better off buying the part from a discounter and going directly to a Honda dealer's service department and let them bill you for the hourly rate! Of course the only drawback is that the accessory is not warranteed with the vehicle, but the price difference is huge!
The $1,195 backup sensor lists for $578, and again discounts to less than that (I don't want this to be an ad for parts discounters, so I'll just say MSRP price the rest of this post!).
The $299 air deflector lists for $129 and can easily be installed yourself.
The $899 side steps list for $499. If you can handle a socket wrench and can get under your vehicle, you can install it yourself pretty easily.
Center console a little flimsy, second seat 'activity tray' is generally useless, too flat. Cups in cup-holders would have to be short or they'd spill easily. Better cup-holders in each rear side door. Lots of good cubby holes and attachment points for tie down and grocery bags. Not much hidden storage; compartment behind the 3rd seat, basically holds the head rests, that's it. Engine compartment is clean and uncluttered.
Pricing? Not gonna comment except to say they added a 'market adjustment' of $2500 and accessories (rack, side-steps, tint, etc) for a grand total of $34,700 compared to $30,900 MSRP. The dealer had three: white EX-L, Green EX-L and silver LX (none with DVD or NAV). NONE were spoken for. More are in on Monday. A Honda dealer in North Phoenix.
OK, I can't help myself: DON'T PAY OVER MSRP!
Sorry, it just slipped out. Remember, Touring edition MDX, at sticker in Phoenix, includes sunroof and multi-changer CD for $38K. Just have to order and wait.
After, went out to dinner at Cracker Barrel and bought a "Kung Fu Hamster" doll for my desk at work. Very funny; dances to tune of "Kung Fu Fighting" and swings his num-chuks(sic).
Looking at everything it offers, I think the MSRP price is a good value compared to everything else on the market and just enough below the MDX to justify both prices. Maybe it is just that Honda figured out to accurately set MSRP's? Because when you compare to buying other vehicles at invoice, both the MDX and Pilot seem to be good values.
Dealer here isn't expecting any until next week. MSRP and no extra's.
You should not have to pay for the forced option package. What dealer are you working with in Philly?
Check out Scott and also, when I started shopping, Roberts Honda in Downingtown was selling for MSRP, however, they are a small dealer and there initial allocation was only 3.
wmquan-thnx for your options info: the weasel's prices did include labor.
2. This is almost certainly an economic decision by Honda, not to offer the option because too few people will buy it, esp at the outrageous asking price
3. Integrated nav systems will always be significantly behind aftermarket systems because of the design lead time required to incorporate them. Aftermarket product cycles are much shorter, so you will likely see more accurate and more feature-rich systems from Garmin, Magellan etc.
4. Map licensing and distribution is certainly an issue. Canadian maps probably cost more to purchase from (say) Navtech because our government chose to follow a user-pay model in distributing them (unlike the US where Navtech can obtain pretty good basic map info for free from the gov't.) Honda and Acura simply may not feel like paying the premium.
???
However, that 3rd seat is going to be very unpopular with kids after a certain age, I think. Not to mention the hassle of getting back there. I'm beginning to think that the CR-V is equally practical for $5K less - if only it had less road noise. Oh well, I guess you can't have everything.
'S' in this SUV stands for super
ASHEVILLE, N.C. — Honda's first try at the mainstream, midsize, sport-utility-vehicle market is the 2003 Pilot, an extraordinary SUV that does most things that most people would ask of it much better than rivals would. In fact, Pilot is such an extraordinary package that it could be the best all-around vehicle, SUV or otherwise. That impression is based on 466 highway miles, 131 suburban miles, and a day clambering through an off-road course here in the Pilot and in rivals....
http://www.usatoday.com/money/columns/healey/2002-05-31-honda-pilot.htm
And, as predicted, the Pilot uses regular.
actually paid more than my silver deal but silver looks more like every other vehicle in the world. Go Blue Pilot !!!!!!!
Got 24 miles on it , so far so good
Varmint, I'm looking forward to reading your follow up post please give up the details.
Though here are some additional thoughts,
The ride was very well damped, very smooth and quiet. I felt the handling was OK, steering is not crisp, there is a lot of body roll and it feels as large as it is. Our Highlander feels much nimbler.
Power seemed only adequite (I'm replacing a Mountaineer V8).
The third row seat is for small childern only (age 6 and under) I sat back there and although physically possible I would take a second car.
The tailgate just clears my head (I'm 5'11")
The Space in back is huge, the 3rd seat folds completely flat, the 2nd row folds forward and down but not completely flat (though not that bad).
There is a full diameter doughnut spare.
Dual outlet non chromed exhaust.
Rear wiper is on or off (no delay)
Cupholders in front have 3 stepped diameter sizes They don't seem like they will hold a large cup, but they can be moved to 2 positions in the console area.
The cloth seats are very comfortable.
They also had EXL's and the leather seemed fine also.
The dual trip odometer toggles between the two settings and outside temperature.
There are nooks and crannies for stuff everywhere.
The rear seat fold down tray can not be used as an arm rest.
My conclusions.
There is a lot going for the Pilot and I may still buy one but after driving one I didn't feel that "I have to have this thing" feeling.
1)I'm going to test drive an MDX again.
2) Look for another good deal for a second Highlander Limited. (I don't need the 3rd seat but I do want the room).
3)If 1 or 2 above don't work I will buy a Pilot EX no leather or NAV.
The seats are not heated and $2000 for NAV that only works in one car and has to be traded with it(used 2001 MDX NAV adds only $800).
The cloth were fine and not hot and a Garmin Street Pilot III can go between cars.
The third row is good for kids or smaller items. It had absolutely no room to stretch back there. I'm only 5' 7" and 175lbs. I don't think it will be comfortable.
The ride is very smooth just like the MDX. But the steering wheel shifter was not smooth at all. I found it hard to shift through the "D" without some fudging. (I was not impressed on it). The salesman had trouble with it also.
I was told by one salesman that you can get the navigation installed aftermarket from Honda.
Is that correct?
Is that true for the MDX also?
Anyways, I did not buy it there since he wanted above MSRP.
I now have a reliable 2002 van with options that Honda does not even have and it cost me 6500 (4500 off sticker) bucks less than a Honda Pilot/Odyssey. I did not get a Kia Sedona, but even at their low MSRP, they are discounting them too. MSRP is a game folks, play or pay. Honda is a good vehicle, but Goodbye Honda!
Salesman did not have a clue. Couldn't even get an answer when we returned to the showroom. ???
The VTM-4 lock button is not required for all wheels to be powered. It's just an extra mode.
Power is sent to the rear wheels when:
1) You're driving and slippage is detected; some power is routed to the rear wheels (varying amounts can be sent to each wheel). There is no visible indication this is occurring, though you may feel it sometimes.
2) When the system senses that acceleration is within certain parameters, power is also sent to the rear. There is also no visible indication when this is happening, though you're more likely to feel it (I usually can, with my MDX which has the same VTM-4 system).
3) If you need to extricate yourself from a sticky situation, you can press VTM-4 "lock". The lock will only engage under 18mph and if you are in 1st, 2nd, or reverse gears (remember, this mode is for extrication). "Lock" means that power is sent to the rear wheels, and the two rear wheels are locked (spin with each other). The lock is disengaged either by manual control, or automatically as the vehicle approaches 18mph and/or is shifted out of the 1st/2nd/reverse gear. In this mode, the light will come on.
Net-net, VTM-4 lock doesn't mean AWD, it just means you have it locked into a certain AWD mode.
As far as the SUV itself. It's a typical Honda with a bit of new style for the center console and the instrument gauges. It accelerates nicely. Same engine as the Odyssey but it doesn't accelerate as fast as the 2002 Odyssey I tried. This is probably due to the larger and wider tires (causing the wheel hum noted in the posts above) and the 4WD along with the larger curb weight. But it's a nice vehicle. If I don't get the price I want, I'll probably look elsewhere because I don't have to have it. I have had Ford Explorers and it definitely beats them hands down...IMHO.
This was the offer that a Honda dealer in the southwest was offering for a Silver EX
MSRP $29730
Market Adjustment $0
ADD ON STUFF
Collision Package $4995
Side Step $995
Mud Flaps $299
Locking Lug Nuts $69
TOTAL $36088 not including T.T.L.
I started to walk when he said "wait we can talk" And he offered me $35500. GEE what a deal I save about 600 bucks. I told him that the collision package is just body molding and few other things that basically add up to nothing but profit for his dealership. He then offered me $34000. I said "nope" and he went to get another manager. I saw that coming and walked out of the show room. By the way you have much more leverage if you talk with the person outside of the show room because they will think they are going to lose you. That's because, the manager caught up to me and said he could give it to me for $31,500. So now I'm down to MSRP plus the $400 for the collision package and the other ADD ONS. Now I'll have to work on getting the side steps down and the mud flaps down. WMQUAN posted that the side steps are about $500 dollars so I have another $400 dollars there and probably with the mudflaps another $120 or so there to play with. The lugnuts for $69!!!!! Puhleeese!!! They may cost $30-35 at the most!
So how much lower should I go with this vehicle and it's current ADD ON's.
And...is it possible that I can order a car from this dealership without the ADD ON's (the dealer said not possible). Because I really don't want them.
Thanks for all the information on the Pilot forum. I have learned alot.
Yes, the side steps list for $499 and I have seen them discounted to $388.70 with shipping included (though I think with a $2 handling fee or something like that) (and IIRC one discounter is offering a further 10% discount for advance orders before mid-June).
The above pricing does not include installation. If it's like the MDX, you have to get under the car and do 72 bolts (36 for each one). A power wrench helps, but I don't think you need to raise the car.
The rear mud guards list for $42.00 and I've seen them discounted to $32.50. Again, if it's like the MDX, it should be pretty easy to install yourself. Two screws go on fairly easily, and the third is a bit of a pain as it requires a very short screwdriver or an L-shaped one (removing the wheel makes it easy).
Additionally, please keep in mind that eventually aftermarket vendors will have items like side steps. E.g. Manik side steps are popular with many MDX owners and are cheaper than the OEM ones.
Salesman knew very little about the car. I had to show him how to lower the seats.
My observations:
> Car felt heavy when driving and had a nice solid feel.
> I thought the interior looked a bit cheap. The Highlander has a nicer looking interior.
> The car I drove did NOT have a full size spare tire.
> Second seat as noted in an earlier post doesn't lie down flat.
Asked the sales person about the price. He said MSRP. However, I then talked to the sales manager and he said $5K over MSRP and that the first Pilot they sold was sold for $8,500 over MSRP. I don't know if that is bull but I refuse to pay over MSRP.
I think the Pilot is more rugged and better for moderate offroad than the Highlander but I think the Highlander is a better value even with the Pilot at MSRP. The Highlander can be had for about $500 over invoice but Toyota loads the car up with options that at least I don't need.
And now that you mention those splash guards. I also saw them at Collegehills for $31.25. I forgot to look to see if the splash guards were for all wheel wells or just the rear ones as shown in Collegehills. Either case it's still cheaper than $299.00 which means more profit for dealer.
I'm fairly sure the mud guards (splash guards) are for the rear, and that the Pilot comes with front mud guards.
If the mud guards are like the MDX's, they're not body-colored, just black. I'm not a detailing nut, but I do know some folks have tried getting theirs painted. However, the mud guards are of a flexible type of plastic so paint may not hold as well.
In my opinion the MSRP for the Pilot is just the right price. I saw an EX Leather today at $30K + with a $4k markup. At $34K, hmmm I will look at others like MDX, Runner Ltd, RX300 or even the Pathfinder LE that I consider the interior quality much more superior than the Pilot I saw today.
Looks like the old CRV but bigger. But again, at MSRP of $30K, then it is a reasonable buy not with the mark up. Honda suggested price of $30 is providing enough margins for the dealership. They manufactured this much less than the MDX because of lesser quality (you can see it all over the vehicle when you compare to the MDX).
I owned two generations of Honda Accords before the current one. I consider them good cars but never paid over MSRP (nor will I consider paying one) just because it is a Honda.
If someone wants to pay more than double what Honda thinks they can profit from it, good luck to him. Not me. Keep on walking away from greedy dealership, and we will have a Pilot reasonably priced shortly.
All I can say is... good luck Pilot customers. You're going to need it dealing with arrogant Honda dealers.
Bob
As I've stated earlier, we have four dealer in our area. Three are at MSRP and the fourth is $2,000 over. However, the salesman agreed to match the other dealers prices when it came down to shelling out cash. All four salesman have been EXTREMELY helpful calling me with updates, pricing, accessories available, etc. I have no complaints about anything they have done or will do after I receive my Pilot on the 17th.
Maybe it's just the Midwestern mentality versus the coasts, but there are TONS of Honda dealers out there. Don't label them all just because one salesman at one dealership rubbed you the wrong way.
I think it is good that folks are identifying those dealers that are trying to take advantage of the uninformed.
The fact that rustyjay was initially quoted $36,000 for a Pilot EX and the dealer promptly dropped down to $31,500 (still $1,500 over MSRP) is evidence that SOME dealers are hoping to take advantage of uninformed or less savvy consumers.
And don't think that American Honda doesn't know about and condone these practices. The Odyssey and MDX are two other examples of dealers using similar tactics to pad their pockets. This activity is so rampant that there is even a website devoted to posting messages about good and bad Acura dealers.
There are many good Honda and Acura dealers out there selling at MSRP and not playing games. Unfortunately, Honda and Acura also have more than their share of greasy haired, Armani clad crooks.
"This activity is so rampant that there is even a website devoted to posting messages about good and bad Acura dealers."
I finally received pricing from an "internet" manager at the local honda dealership(in writing) on May 18th. The quote was for @ $400 over MSRP. I explained that I wanted to test drive as soon as one arrives and would then provide a deposit at the quoted price if I liked it. The Pilots arrived on the lot on Friday 5/30 and I test drove on the same day. We liked the car and pursued the deposit at the quoted price.
Now the dealership is telling me that their manager is insisting on @ $2,000 in dealer add-ons (echo, running boards, etc). Can they do this when they've already provided a quote in writing? I've been talking to my rep weekly for several weeks and now they try to pull this? Isn't this otherwise known as "bait and switch"?
Now my rep is claiming she'll talk to her manager tomorrow and let me know.
Steve
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The collision package is basically small amounts of body molding placed in strategic areas to prevent door dings. I won't pay for the collision package and the dealer realized that by dropping the price by $5000 almost instantly.
bengelking wrote: "Maybe it's just the Midwestern mentality versus the coasts, but there are TONS of Honda dealers out there. "
Actually the Honda Dealership I went to was very courteous and helpful. They didn't try to pressure a sale and I wasn't made to feel like if I didn't buy the car, that I would miss out on an opportunity. BUT, I wasn't going to pay a $6000 markup on their vehicle either for the ADD ONS. Since they won't budge from MSRP, I'll have to negotiate the ADD ONS. $5000 down and another $750 to $1000 to go. If I came across as the salesperson acting arrogant, he wasn't. Those of us on the West Coast have nice dealers too.
Got mine at Motor Werks in Barrington, IL (Chicago suburb) for MSRP and no forced options. Dealer had a fairly long list of available options. I opted for some rear mud flaps and a cargo organizer, which is basically a heavy canvas container that goes behind the third row to help hold stuff. It collapses down when not in use.
As far as size goes, I don't see where the Pilot is too big or too small for any type of family. You cannot "generalize" its size. Some people think a CRV is great for a family of 5, others cannot be in anything below an Excursion or Suburban for the same size family. No vehicle will be all things to all people. Get in one and drive it.
IMHO it's actually much easier to get into the third row in the Pilot than the MDX (especially having both sides fold up). I was not uncomfortable at all in the third row and I'm sure kids won't mind being back there (my son has already announced that he wants his booster back there). Again, to each their own.
Odyssey. The Pilot is bigger than I thought but
not as big as the Odyssey. The thing with the pilot is the 2nd seat is a pretty wide bench. Looks like you can fit 3 kids there. Don't expect as much interior room as your Ody. Hope this helps