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Comments
Also, what's the difference between the Pilot and the Buick Rendezvous? Are they not both "short AWD minivans?"
The Pilot is a family vehicle, it's good at that, yet the truck based vehicles are good at being real trucks. Does that take anything away from the Pilot? No I don't think it does, it's still a great alternative to a minivan.
Exactly. But how many people actually take their Explorers, Envoys and Trailblazers on a real trail? So if they don't take their truck-based SUVs on a real trail, I don't see why a comparison to the Pilot would be considered taboo - now all the SUVs, truck-based or not, will be strictly alternatives for wagons and minivans.
Actually, if you look at price, comfort, and off-road/towing capabilities, the AWD Chevy Venture minivan is a much closer competitor to the Pilot.
While not all of us use these features (heck I drive an Aztek FWD no offroading for me!) are used by everyone, many like the fact that if they need it, it's there. It's a trade off, Crossovers-family vehicle, SUV image: truck based SUV's-offroad beasts with big towing ratings and some family pretensions.
Bottom line, can we compare them? Sure we can, but we have to admit that they are designed for different purposes, and with so many crossover SUV's out there why not compare them with each other and not their truck based counterparts?
Even if we compared truck-based SUV against truck-based SUV, we would end up with the "which one is truckier" debate.
As for towing, I tow often as well, and on the highways and boat ramps I've seen mostly 2500series Suburaban/Yukons, Expeditions, FS Pickups, Sequoias, Excursions, Jeep GCs, Montys, Troopers.
So for the use arguement the Pilot people are correct the mid-size domestic SUVs are being used for the same purpose as the Pilot. Of course the problem is that since they are truck based they are considered more macho than the Pilot and lets face it folks if the Pilot buyers weren't worried about their image, wouldn't they be buying mini-vans?
-mike
No we wouldn't because the Ody is not available in AWD.
BTW, just rented a Traiblazer for two weeks. Wife did most of driving, and she felt our 99 Ody had more pick-up. She is a Chevy fan; its a gorgeous truck; but she wouldn't consider it. Wouldn't let me drive it around the farmette for fear of scratching it. So much for off-road capability of a $30K plus vehicle.
Trailblazer EXT and wienerdog, ha ha. I though someone was trying to make a TB into a Limo but did a half-...-job(:
I wonder if we will see a magic 3rd suicide-door like on the Saturn Coupe on these 3rd seat SUVs?
No rattles, sloshing on the Pilot test drive, but did notice the leather did look a bit streched. After you got out of the driver seat, the leather was kinda wavy, wonder if it would "strech back"? Some say I'm skinny, so look for this (Pilot had 500 miles on it).
-mike
-mike
The DC stuff is always sub-par reliability.
-mike
There are those of us who are more interested in function than appearance. We just gave our 95 Grand Caravan AWD to my "out-laws". Again was the wife's choice to purchase, and she did not want the Grand Cherokee then or now. She is a Chevy fan but does not like the mpg on their trucks. This is confirmed by neighbors experience with their burb. We still have her 87 Z28 though.
Agreed, most people wouldn't buy AWD minivans for SUV replacements but I'm looking for an AWD vehicle to replace that GC AWD minivan and looking at everything. With our satisfaction with the Ody, and our past experience with, Honda, Mazda, Ford, Chrysler, and GM, I am biased towards the Pilot.
Folks, like us, who are first time SUV buyers are large part of Honda Pilot demographics. We are interested in AWD, 5 to 8 passenger capacity, convenient/flexible seating, economy, resale value, and safety, and price. In these areas, Pilot scores very well if not best. If there are others I should consider, please let me know, but for now, looks like a no-brainer.
And Mike, no, Trooper is not on my short list.
Jeff
And nowadays we get mad if it doesn't have VSC, Side-airbags, all of which help in safety.
-mike
Ever hear the story about the guy in California who lost his divorce settlement and HAD to buy his wife an SUV as part of the settlement?
He went out and bought the Ugliest SUV he could find in the ugliest color offered, which was bright yellow. The Pontiac Salesman said "you should have seen the shear joy and the smile on his face when he left in his New Aztec."
I guess I'll get back to Pilots. But this shows one of the urban legends and my opinions of the Aztec.
Tough question!
If I were truly function over form kind of buyer, Ody AWD should be my choice, but let me tell you about driving our old '87 Z28 Camaro.
It's got the 5.0L TPI V8 that puts out only 190hp, and is only good for probably mid 8 sec 0-60 times and mid to low 16 sec qtr mile times at its best.....but I don't get any lip from traffic when I am driving it, like I do in the Ody or GC AWD (or the 90 626 GT turbo, or 81 Accord). Its not the vehicle, but peoples's perception (aided by a fortune in manufacturer's hype). The 02 Ody would run away from it in any acceleration test, but I don't long for an 02 Ody.
So it is with the AWD Ody vs Pilot...people's perception affect our driving experience greatly in spite of a vehicle's capability. I got a lot of respect when driving the TrailBlazer, and want to carry that over to our next vehicle.
I guess my "sheet is showing".
Moonkat- The Camaro has this perception because at the time, circa 87' it was fairly fast compared with other vehicles of that year. Also in 87' Pontiac released the 87 GTA and the 350 TPI Trans Am's which were even by today's standard very fast, they also look alot like a Camaro. So maybe that's one of the reasons F-bodies of that year get respect.
-mike
I hope the van has higher ground clearance than that of the Ody.
Advices? Thanks!
1) ECU under the back seat, right where a kid could spill a slurpy!
2) Can't fold rear seats with the front seats in the furthest back position
3) When folded the rear seats scrape against the rear acc. outlet plug.
4) Worst in class angle of approach and departure
Not to mention the Q&A problems.
-mike
That said, there are a number of differences between the Pilot and Ody. There are obviously a lot of similarities too, but that doesn't make them the same vehicle. For example, the Pilot has a complete frame structure reinforcing the unitbody. It's a wagon body-style, rather than a van. The Pilot also has a significantly shorter wheelbase when compared with the Ody. When a unit-body SUV is "based" on something like a minivan it's not the same as an SUV being based a pickup truck (sharing actual frame design). It just means that they share manufacturing platforms.
I've heard about the '03 Sienna coming. Does anyone know any others coming with AWD (ie, Odyssey or MPV)?
The new Pilot commercials seem to insinuate the car is capable of what most owners only dream about, and that's what they're selling, image.
Obviously the initial Pilot is not bug free, but somehow I don't think it's going to get recalled as frequently as the Envoy, and the Pilot will likely be more reliable in the long run. Not to mention the weak available crash test scores from the short versions of the Trailblazer/Envoy vehicles (don't know if the long ones will be any better).
There are a lot of low-price deals on the Trailblazer/Envoy, though. It's up to one's priorities.
I'm interested in hearing about any and all off-pavement experiences with the Pilot. I opened a new topic, since I hope this becomes a popular discussion area - and didn't want to see it get buried in this message board.
Please stop by and share your likes & dislikes:
jwarthman "Pilot Off-Pavement Experiences" Jul 16, 2002 11:19pm
Thanks!
-- Jim
As for my dislikes of the Trailblazer EXT, where do I begin?
It's veeerrry long (the Suburban's WB is only 1" longer). The 3rd seat is is really a usable seat (unlike the Pilot) but it's built up above the floor and doesn't come close to folding flat (gaps every where). Because of the false floor load height is high. There's very limited head room with the moonroof (but it does have one) that only opens 10 or 12". The handling is very vague and downright bad on the highway. Engine power is fine for the normal version but the EXT needs the V8. If these aren't bad enough look at it from the back at a distance it looks like an SUV hearse, the raised roofline was done with glass. I'm sure someone will look at all these issues as positives that I just didn't understand because the Trailblazer is a real SUV and the Pilot isn't. I judge things based on my needs for a vehicle not what I might not be able to do. I've been deep offroad before and I wouldn't take either.
Wmquan - Unless the EXT has a re designed front end, I expect the extra mass will actually hurt it in the crash tests.
Jim - I think you'll have to wait a while. There's more people waiting for their Pilots, than people driving them. :-(
According to JD Power's Initial Quality Survey, the Rendezvous's initial quality is below average. Though I bet it'll come out as "average" in Consumer Reports, which isn't bad (isn't great either).
If the Trailblazer and Envoy are completely new products, then they should do better in crash tests.
Dealer had no clue (claimed he hadn't seen an LX, but I took that as a little friendly upselling).
However, Honda has been accurate in predicting crash test results for at least its four most recent vehicles -- the MDX, Civic, RSX, and the CR-V. In all NHTSA and IIHS tests that have been executed to date against production versions of those vehicles, the result has been at or beyond the level that Honda has predicted in public statements. This demonstrates how commitment, good design, computer simulation, and internal crash testing can produce consistent and reliable results for safety (at least as far as crashworthiness goes).
Honda has predicted that the Pilot will get 5-stars all around in the NHTSA crash tests and at least a "Good" in the IIHS test. I certainly would not bet against them.
That all said, it'd have been better had Honda made stability control available in the Pilot, something you can get on vehicles like the Highlander.
It is very easy to use too. The interface could be either touch screen or a mouse-like button.
For example if you need to find a restaurant, you could search it by multiple ways like : by category (eg American, Chinese, Italian, Fast food etc), by shortest distance, by name, etc.
It has a voice to tell you when to exit a freeway and has a few reminder before you approach the exit. When you need to make a left or right turn on a street, there is a voice to tell you in advance and the display will show you when to turn starting with 1000 feet and decrease by 100 feet until you arrived at the exact intersection.
When you miss the turn it will recalculate the new route from your current location and direct you to the target place using the alternative route.
Also you could choose to minimize toll roads, avoid certain street, easy route, direct route etc.
My friends called it a 'Never Lost' system and I say it is only a machine and not 100% perfect. But at least it does it job and bring you to the place that you want to go.
The Pilot has a roof rack and body side molding which are extra on the MDX,and has seating for 8 vs. 7
The MDX has different styling, sunroof, fog lights, heated seats, trip computer, day/night rear view mirror, heated outside mirrors, better warranty, loaner cars when in for service.
Is there any other features on the MDX to justify the price difference.
Thanks for your help.