Honda Pilot 2003 through 2005

dindak

While I definitely have respect for crash tests, I don't think they are the only thing one should look at. Safety equipment (ABS, stability control, traction control, air bags ect) are all just as important IMO. I also think the testing has some flaws, but I guess you have to use some kind of standard as you can't test ever situation.

sbcooke

One good reason is that all those annoying (not major) first year production issues have been worked out. Dealership's should be able to service them and have parts in stock.

The MDX is very cool. Drives like a sports sedan! Absolutely love mine. I am not sure if you can still get 2002, the 2003 MDX may have the same first year issues though.

wmquan

Oh, I wasn't saying that crash tests were the only thing to look at. As I mentioned previously, I think the Pilot should have stability control. I agree that crash testing is not perfect, but there has been enough research done to show a correlation with real-world injury.

My main point was that the Envoy/Trailblazer set, being new designs, should have been designed to do better in the crash tests. They don't come with stability control either (though traction control is available). I'm not even sure if they have front seat-belt pretensioners, which is a pretty basic safety feature nowadays.

wmquan

This is a work in progress, but it tries to outline the differences between the MDX and the Pilot. It's up to you whether or not you think the price difference is worth it or not. I think it comes down to your purchasing priorities (as should all vehicle decisions).

The 2003 Pilot EX-L has over the 2002 MDX:

- MSRP+destination charge is $4,220 lower.
- Uses regular fuel instead of premium.
- First tune-up at 105k instead of 100k.
- Column-mounted shifter instead of the gated console shifter.
- Softer ride.
- "Pilot styling."
- Rear windows roll all the way down.
- Roof rails are standard, instead of accessory.
- Accessory crossbars are adjustable, unlike fixed MDX accessory rack crossmembers.
- Body side moldings standard, instead of accessory.
- Standard rear roofline spoiler, instead of accessory Tailgate Deflector.
- Some different exterior/interior color combinations.
- 0.9 foot smaller turning circle.
- Different interior trim.
- Front headrests have an "open" design.
- Center console has cell phone cradle and more storage space.
- 2nd row fold-down activity tray.
- Cargo net is standard, instead of an accessory.
- 8-passenger seating instead of 7-passenger.
- 60-40 split third row.
- 9.2 more cubic feet of passenger volume.
- 3.2" more 1st row headroom.
- 0.4" more 1st row shoulder room.
- 0.6" more 1st row hip room.
- 1.9" more 2nd row headroom.
- 0.3" more 2nd row shoulder room.
- 0.3" more 2nd row hip room.
- 2.6" more 3rd row headroom.
- 0.9" more 3rd row legroom.
- 0.2" more 3rd row shoulder room.
- 0.5" more 3rd row hip room.
- 8.3 more cubic feet of cargo capacity with 2nd and 3rd rows folded down.
- Holds 4x8 sheets flat on the cargo floor, instead of the MDX having to angle them slightly.
- Available DVD entertainment system.
- Available accessory rear view camera and backup sensors.
- Larger dealer network, more available dealers.
- Labor rate at dealer is usually lower.

The 2002 MDX Base (Premium) has over the 2003 Pilot EX-L:

- Slightly lower dealer profit margin (12.91% vs 13.04%).
- 1 more EPA highway mpg.
- ULEV in all 50 states, not just CA.
- Console-mounted shifter instead of a column-mounted shifter.
- Slightly better acceleration.
- Sharper handling and steering.
- "MDX styling."
- 17" wheels instead of 16"
- Standard, integrated foglamps instead of available accessory lamps.
- Heated outside mirrors.
- Moonroof.
- Chrome door handles.
- Chromed stainless steel exhaust tips.
- Hood supported by gas struts instead of a prop rod.
- Some different exterior/interior color combinations.
- 65 lbs lighter.
- Heated front seats.
- Front headrests adjust up/down.
- Different interior trim, with simulated wood.
- Electrochromatic (autodimming) rear view mirror is standard, not accessory.
- 2nd row fold-down fully-padded armrest.
- 50-50 split third row.
- More lateral room for one or two passengers in third row.
- 0.1" more 1st row legroom.
- 0.4" more 2nd row legroom.
- 0.9" more cubic feet of cargo capacity behind the 2nd row (3rd row folded down).
- Radio antenna on roof instead of in window.
- Trip computer.
- Standard compass, instead of an accessory.
- Offset front crash-tested by IIHS ("Best Pick", highest score of "Good", 2nd highest SUV rated). Pilot hasn't been tested yet but Honda expects at least the "Good" score.
- Side-impact crash-tested by NHTSA (5 stars front, 5 stars rear). Pilot not tested yet, but Honda expects 5-stars.
- NHTSA rollover resistance rated at 4 stars. Static stability factor the highest of any rated SUV. Pilot not rated yet.
- 4 years, 50,000 miles warranty instead of 3 years, 36,000 miles.
- Roadside assistance included during warranty period.
- Many Acura dealers offer free loaners and free wash/vacuum with service.

markell58

I was on the edge of buying an '02 Explorer to replace my 99 Durango. I owned an '97 Explorer and liked it very much. To be safe I thought I better check out the Pilot, even though I thought I'd never change my mind about the Explorer. Well, about 1 minute into the test drive I did change my mind. The pilot is the hands down winner for me. It has the space of a bigger SUV, drives like a honda sedan, and excuse me but it does handle medium off road situations just fine. A AWD minivan would never get thought the spots we go with the Pilot. I bought the Pilot EX - NAVI that I drove on the spot for sticker price. My affection for the car has only increased over time. It is very well layed out and feels much safer than an Exploer or a Durango in terms of steering, braking and handling.

The GPS navigation system just happened to be in the car I drove. I probably wouldn't have tried it if it wasn't on the only Green EX at the dealership. It is absolutely great to have - Way more useful than I thought and very highly recommended. I live in a large urban/suburban area with hundreds of streets. This system makes it painless to navigate though the endless routes - finding someone's home for the first time, a store, a restaurant, etc. It has been completly dependable in getting me there and getting me home. We now feel confident in running around to spots that sounded like a pain because they were in little traveled areas of town. I will never get a car without one again. BTW - My little $200 portable VHS player/TV fits nicely on the arm rest and keeps the kids happly with videos, so we don't miss the dvd at all.

MK

lxusrules

The drivers seat on LX moves back and forward and reclines too.

THere is couple more turning knob that lowers and raises the front part and back part of the seat but the height adjustment is minor.. Maybe a inch or two...
My driver's seat feels like it's tilted to the middle of the car, I don't know if this is me or the seat is really tilted?

I love my LX.

kflint2

I delayed purchasing an MDX until I could test drive a Pilot EX-L. For our family, we found one defining difference between the MDX and the Pilot, which led us to purchase a base MDX.

The Pilot's third row seat is divided into three spaces by the 60-40 fold-down split and the seat belts, while the MDX's is divided into two. My children are approaching/entering the teenage years, and they found the width of the seating in the Pilot's third row too confining. Basically, they refused to sit there, even for a short drive. They don't mind sitting in the MDX's third row, even for longer trips. They also swear there is less leg/foot room in the Pilot, even though Honda's specifications state otherwise.

My wife, who is petite, climbed into the back seat of each vehicle and confirmed the kids' reactions.

Aside from this, I liked the Pilot a lot, and probably would have gone for it to save the money.

Depending on your needs, you should look at this carefully. YMMV.

sailing216

Does anyone know or can check if the Non-Navi version's dash cubby hole is 1.5 DIN? Under the stereo there is a space for sunglasses or whatever, DIN refers to the size of the opening in specific reference to fit a In-dash DVD. The large opening under the stereo console definitely will fit it, but the little holder may fit it perfect.

1.5 DIN is: 7” (w) x 2” (h) x 9” (d)

I'm specifically looking for height of the slot. Could someone please walk to their garage with a ruler? Gracias

calg

Does anyone know when crash testing will be done on the Pilot and made available to the public?

dindak

Trailblazer comes standard with ABS, DRLs and all models except the base have standard traction control. Also TB has a five star side impact rating for front and back. It's not unsafe like you are making it out to be.

jwarthman

Markell58,
You made this comment, above:

"...excuse me but it does handle medium off road situations just fine. A AWD minivan would never get thought the spots we go with the Pilot."

Perhaps you'd be willing to elaborate in the "Honda Pilot Off-Pavement Experiences" discussion?

Thanks!

-- Jim

dan165

What were people doing a few years ago before traction control, stability control and all these other functions were even widely available? Yes you should get a safe vehicle and it is a concern, but you seem to be implying that the GM triplets are unsafe which is not true.

We have had an 02 Bravada for 6+ months and we love it. Looking at the Pilot which we thought about waiting for, I see I am not missing anything. The Bravada is more luxurious and has a stronger engine. No regrets at all and our Bravada replaced an Accord.

wmquan

No, I am not implying that the GM triplets are unsafe. I do not feel that they are unsafe. However, I am saying that in _certain_ areas, they are less safe than some of their competitors. One of those areas mentioned here is in crashworthiness.

(Dindak -- yes, they got 5-stars for the side impact -- realistically, most mid-sized SUV's get 5-stars because of the higher seating position. IIHS is working on a test that simulates a larger vehicle crashing into the side. I have no idea how today's SUV's will do in such tests.)

Whether that extra degree of safety is worth it to you is based on your buying priorities. In fact, while people have an instinct to say "I want the maximum safety possible," there is always some trade-off. And those extra degrees of safety tend to bring about diminishing returns in terms of the sheer quantity of injuries. Thus, some people will be willing to trade off those additional degrees of safety for other things (features, price, etc.). Some people are not. It's up to the buyer to decide.

silverk21

Thanks bumblej and markell58 for the info on the Navi system. $2K may be a lot of money, but who can put a price on good toys?

johnnysquire, to the best of my recolection, the LX does not have a height adjustment.

rms41

The cubby hole under the stereo in an EX w/o nav is not a simple rectangular box.
The opening is 6 and 7/8" wide and 1 and 9/16" high. But, the sides slant inward the first inch of depth so that the width after that is only about 6". Total depth is 4 and 7/16".

h1vc

Pilot on motorweek on speedvision tomorrow 12am eastern.

bill01923

On of the first things I look at before buying a new vehicle is the IIHS offset tests.
I holding faith in Honda's belief that the Pilot will rate "Good" because it's based on the MDX and it did so well. I strongly considered the Durango (back in 98) until I saw the crash tests.

I consider emergengy handling as being equally important to crash ratings. The best accident you can hope for is the one you avoided. The on road handling of the Trailblazer isn't very good and the EXT is worse. The Pilot does have some body lean but the at the limit handling is amazing for an SUV.

johnnysquire

thanks, lxsrules! seat height was my only reason to consdier EX - I'm going to do my own radio and roof rack anyway and I'm 50/50 on most of the style differences (and does anyone really care if the a/c has a thermostat?)

bill01923

I really care. I'm going to put in an automatic starter. I've had one in my last truck for years. It didn't have auto ac and I would have to remember to put on the AC in summer and the heat in winter. Automatic air makes it set it and forget it.

wmquan

Please note that the MDX's emergency handling isn't that special either. That may -- or may not -- mean that the Pilot's may be similarly "average" as far as SUV's go.

E.g. Consumer Reports rates emergency handling on its scale that covers ALL vehicles (not just SUV's). SUV's, being somewhat more limited in that aspect, tend to score "below average" in CR's test. E.g. the MDX and the Highlander both scored "below average." A vehicle like the MB ML320 scored "average" in this category.

Obviously, emergency handling is going to be a tradeoff in a larger vehicle. One obviously should not push a 2-ton+ vehicle like it is a sports car. This is where I think Honda could have helped by adding stability control. But the main problem is that the MDX (and the Pilot) have relatively heavy front-ends, and the weight bias causes some handling issues.

I don't know if the Pilot will have better emergency handling than the MDX. Perhaps Honda has made some adjustments, though there are some suspension tuning differences and tire size differences. We'll see!

dindak

bill01923 : If you want good handling, buy a car. None of these are very good, especially under extreme conditions.

wmquan : Yes some SUVs have more safety add ons than others. You are only limited by what you can afford. That said, one has to look at utility, price and styling also. If one has to haul heavy loads or do any off roading, the Pilot is probably not the best choice, Trailblazer would be better. If one has to run the kids to soccer and do long road trips, Pilot is a pretty good choice.

varmint

Check 'em out here...

varmint "CR-V Owners: Events" Jul 18, 2002 11:10pm

93fsu1

Anyone else find the seats to be short? (From your back to your knee). It seems Honda is cutting off the seats (and cutting off circulation).

lib5

What mpg is everyone getting with their Pilots? It is rated 17-22 and I figured to be happy with 17 but I'm only getting 15 mpg. I drive conservatively, about half surface streets and half freeway. I'm disappointed that it isn't better. Also - I agree with 93sfu1 that the seats are shorter (back to knee), we also have a Ford truck and previously an Accord and the Pilot isn't as comfy there. Otherwise I love it.

sailing216

Seats are shorter than when we jumped out of a new Montero into the Pilot, but we are not large people, so it wasn't a big issue. Tall or larger folks might have problems with these seats, but the seats gave good lat support to us and we didn't slide in the turns.

Thanks for the update on the DIN

varmint

My wife and I both found the Pilot's seats comfortable. However, my current vehicle is a '99 CR-V (definitely short-seated). I may have become accustomed to the feeling through Honda brain-washing (or would this be bum-washing?) :-O

g8tor

my legs are short, so i may not be the best person to ask, but i've been happy with the seat back-knee length. the husband & i are pretty particular about that sort of thing when buying anything (couch, chair, car)...he is 6' & usually drives an exploder, and comments regularly on the comfort of the pilot.

kclfoxtrot

I am getting 14.5 in all city driving. Just took a 300 mile highway trip and got 21 mpg. Guess it really depends on the roads travelled. I too, am disappointed with the city mpg.

dski

I currently have the New Montero which is two years old now with 60K on the odometer. I'll be looking for a replacement before too long and was very impressed with the details Honda thought of for the Pilot interior. Although it will be hard to live without the HUGE sunroof in the Montero.

My question: What are people paying for these? I have a problem with the practice some dealers make of charging over sticker for these type vehilces. I think Honda might be keeping production down a bit to allow dealers to charge premiums. It will be off my list if that's the case.

When I bought the redesigned Montero, the first dealer laughed when I suggested paying something less than sticker. The second dealer took my offer and got my business. Ironically they had to locate the color I wanted from the first dealer.

Drew

love_my_pilot

I averaged 21.5 on my first 2 tanks and just returned from a road trip where I got 24 mpg. Also, it appears I fixed my leaking windshield washer nozzle by cutting about 1" off the hose to the drivers side nozzle. There was a noticable loop in the hose that I suspect would trap the solvent. By eliminating the loop, the solvent drains back down the hose.

kandor

I've only filled up 4 times to date; I've been getting about 16 to 17 in town and 19 on the highway.

suvjoe1234

I bought a Pilot EX-L less than two weeks ago and love the car. Here are three issues:

1. With car in drive and stopped, the engine seems to idle rough then better, then rough, then better in a rhythmic fashion. This is only sometimes.
2. When switching from park to drive and then giving the car some gas, it has no power, makes a clicking noise and then gets power to go. It does not do this when the car is already in drive, say at a red light. It only happens when putting the car in drive from another gear. This is reproducible.
3. Noises coming from window seal area when traveling on rough pavement.

Has anyone experienced these things? I am going to visit service tomorrow evening and will post what they say.

Peterun

Yes, the windows, or perhaps one or a few of them sound as though they creak. Fast solution: Go to Pep Boys and buy a can of spray silicon for $2.49. Spray it on a cloth or paper towel - wipe the rubber around THE DOORS primarily. Then, less importantly, do the window rubber areas. The sound will instantly disappear. Mine has disappeared for a month now. The other problems you mention - I do not have these. My EX-L runs beautifully. Pete

redline65

When you go to buy a Pilot off the lot (if there are any), does the dealer have a ton of accessories on them? Is it hard to find a Pilot with no accessories? I haven't gone to any lots to look at them yet, and I don't want to waste my time if the dealers are loading them with junk I don't want.

suvjoe1234

Saling216, you are probably right! I checked the idle and in park it is idling at around 900. When I put it in drive and not moving, it drops further to around 800 and then the rhythmic thing becomes noticeable and the rpm drops further to 700 or so. I wondered what makes the engine do that rhythmic thing where it drops in rpms every few seconds. That part may be a normal function of the engine, and I bet it would not be noticeable if the idle were at 1100 as you suggest. I will let you know. Thanks.

pileit

Thanks for doing all the legwork on comparison shopping the 2 cars on post #3657

You deserve a promotion to president of this chat group.

Thanks again,

Pileit

bodydouble

I think 1100 RPM in Park is too high. Actually, once it is fully warmed up, idling in Park @ around 900 seems right. Even stall speed of aroung 800 RPM doesn't sound too far off. Are you sure rhythmic thing is not due to air conditioning being on?

paisan

I'll bet the idle is around 700 in the book and less in Drive. It should be listed in the manual though. over 1000rpms at idle is way high.

I'll bet you have a bad EGR valve or O2 sensor.

-mike

g8tor

but not intentionally, of course.
the husband & i were driving the other day & i mentioned that some people found the seats to be short. and he completely agreed. he still finds the vehicle extremely comfortable, despite the short seats.
sorry to be misleading though.

suvjoe1234

I spoke with a technician who said the idle is supposed to be around 700 rpm so that is correct. The 900 rpm in park is also correct. I have not made it in just yet for them to check it out and will mention the things that have been brought up here.

abc246

I don't think anything is wrong with the engine in your Pilot. I think the rhythmic idle is the A/C compressor cycling. As far as the shifting from park to drive and having no power, I think it is a protection loop in the software to protect the transmission during shifting between ranges. I can feel the same thing in my Chevy Silverado, but also between drive and reverse. If you wait a moment before you hit the gas (I can't!) the powertrain computer will be out of the protection loop.

herm4376

suvjoe1234 I've also got the window seal noise which I cannot resolve with the suggested silicone remedy. I've got an appointment with my dealer next week, but I'd be interested on what your dealer does to resolve it.

I did notice that at the middle, top (open the door and where the two “halves “ meet in the middle) the joint is not uniform. It looks like the outside half got deformed which I suspect may be enough to prevent a tight seal. Do you have the same situation?

Thanks

newbie10

Just ordered an EX-L in Sage Brush Pearl. This color will not be available until fall, so I have not personally seen this color. Has anyone else seen the Pilot in this color? Any opinions?

cerickso

I'm not sure if this will help, but it certainly is worth a try. I've noticed that on all of the accessory installation instructions (you can check one out at http://www.handa-accessories.com/pilot/backupsensor.pdf for an example) that require you to disconnect the battery, the instructions include a "PCM idle learn procedure". I'm wondering if you disconnect your battery, reconnect your battery, then follow the process, if it might resolve the issue. It could have been missed or been done incorrectly from the factory and/or dealer.

Good luck!

Chris

cerickso

Hey Newbie10,

I haven't seen one in person (don't think anyone has unless they had one at a show), but there is a nice picture of one in the Pilot brochure. It's a two page photo and it looks pretty good! It should be a great color.

Chris

bodydouble

My salesperson told me the sage brush is very similar to the Mojave Mist for the CR-V. (But note the operative word here is "similar". She could be colour-blind!)

davisdog

bodydouble either your salesperson is color blind or confused. The other new color coming out "sandstone" is similar to Mojave Mist. Sagebrush isnt even close.

Here's the best picture I've seen of Sagebrush (none will be in dealers until maybe late aug)..I have an EX-L on order, can't wait

http://pilot.honda.com/images/popups/gallery_Exterior_0.jpg

ps...rumor has it that the Acura MDX will be available in Sagebrush for 03

newbie10

From the brochure, Sage Brush Pearl is charcoal/granite looking. But my salesperson, says it has some green in it for an olive look. I wonder how different or similar it is to the current granite/green the Odessey comes in?

keh99

The fuel filter is not referenced in the owner's manual and appears to be missing.(if you casually look into the engine compartment.) Perhaps, Honda may have done away with it. Does anybody know?

I have an EX since June 06, and to date can find nothing wrong with it.

bodydouble

Maybe it's me who has "mental" colour blindness! I may have confused sagebrush with sandstone!