The timing is totally screwed up. My Dealer called me that my white pearl EX was in when I was on an international business trip. Make matter worse was that my trip was prolonged and I had to let my pilot sitting in the dealer's lot for about a week. I was finally back on August 3rd and had it picked up on 4th. On 6th I had to take it on a 1500 mile trip that I planned for months. So little time for me to break it in in the first 1000 miles, what I did was that I got off every highway exit and re-enter one after the other. It did take my toe sometimes that not until I got off the highway did I find out that there was no immediate re-entrance. Anyway, I am glad that I took the Pilot on this trip instead using my old beat-up Mazda. The ride is superb and the gas mileage is wonderful. Here below are the data.
I don't know what grade of gas that deal add to my first tank. I think it should be 87. It log 309 mile before I add 18.8 gal of 93 as the second tank. So it gives me 16.4 m/g with only 66 mile of local drive. Judging by the way I drive, this is not bad. The second tank logged 312 mile by adding 16.232 gal of 93, the M/G is 19 with about 100 local drive. The third tank logged 351 mile by adding 16.288 gal of 93, the M/G is 21.55 with pure highway drive. The fourth tank logged 370 mile by adding 16.333 gal of 87, the M/G is 22.65 with pure highway drive. The fifth tank haven't empty yet. The meter still show about a quarter tank of gas left with 300 mile on the log already. I think it will definitely beat 23 this time.
I did find out that there is some difference between premium gas and regular gas. Since my first three tank (exclude the dealer add one) are all premium, once I change it to regular, I can feel the engine lost some torque on accelerating. I think this is why you need to use premium when towing according to the manual. However, it seems to me that the regular will give you better gas mileage. Since I haven't finished the last tank, I can't confirm that yet. But judging by half-tank result, the regular beat the premium.
I ordered the fog lights, cross bar, mud flap and the auto day/night mirror from www.hondaaccessories.com today. I will post the install story once I have them.
Along this 1600+ miles trip, only bump into one Pilot on the road. It was on the Ohio Turn-pike and the car is a green one. Since I got to go at the time, I didn't slow down and greet the driver, guess he might still be breaking it in.
I did hear some noise like the windshield cracking sound on the left side of the body when I drove at about 30 m/h and hit some bumps. It is hard to recognize if it is not at low speed with all speaker turned off. Will check the strut as some other owner suggested.
Still lots of interest but I suspect that the number of posts all over Town Hall are down due to the server/software problems we've been having all week. Steve Host SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
My interest is almost gone on the pilot. The dealers are ridiculous, the cars exterior is one of the most boring I've seen, and 31k for one with leather and no heated seats...0% financing everywhere else in the market makes for some better deals elsewhere. IMO honda gets close to sticker on most of its cars because they are worth sticker, give incentives and financing on other trucks and they become a bargin as where there sticker is not even close. Honda almost had a homerun with the Pilot. Who picks the colors for these trucks anyways? Havasu blue makes me puke, we were on the waiting list for Sagebrush till we saw it-way too dull, should've called it steel gray. If they would have designed something on par with the MDX, it would have been a hugh hit, but an inflated old model CRV? I still commend everyone everytime I drive past Honda dealers and they have the same pilots on their lots with their hugh markup. The Havasu blue LX with tons of options including 3rd party wheels is still on the lot from June stickering for 31k. Enjoy your truck, but it's not for me.
Some dealers have done Honda no favors with the Pilot. Honda put a fair price on the vehicle at MSRP that gives the dealers great profit, and some dealers want to make sure that their condo in Grand Cayman is paid for, so they tack on several thousand dollars, either through overpriced options, or just adding some $ to the price. Many say that they can charge what the market can bear, and I agree to an extent, but it does hurt Honda in that many potential long term buyers are turned away from an excellent vehicle. 31K for an LX? What the heck kind of options are they putting on that thing? That's robbery. There are many dealers selling Pilots for MSRP, even some rare finds below MSRP! It's sad that other dealers can't run their business well enough to make a fair profit without turning away potential long term customers.
I believe that nationally Pilot is doing very well. More demand than supply. However individual dealers may have foolishly loaded up Pilots with too many DIO when the competitors are offering great deals.
>The Havasu blue LX with tons of options including 3rd party wheels is still on the lot from June stickering for 31k.
I think dealers that do this indiscremently WILL get themselves in a bind. Vehicles that sit on their lots too long cost money, as factory 'hold back' money shrinks after 45 days and disappers after 90.
>It's sad that other dealers can't run their business well enough to make a fair profit without turning away potential long term customers.
The dealers that GOUGE aren't doing it becuase they have to, but because the think they can get away with it. Any dealer who can't make a profit at MSRP should just close the store. The factory will help line-up potential buyers for dealerships that want out. In reality, very few Honda dealerships change hands. The salesfolks who claim the "ups & extras" are NEEDED are full of you-know-what...
On the car buyer side, I think the number of families that own multiple Hondas (one measure of owner loyalty) is highest among all makes. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean the LIKE the dealers, just the vehicles!
About a month ago someone with a new Pilot complained about the radio reception. This person seems to have improved the reception with something called "XM". Does anyone know what this is?
XM is a satellite radio service to which you can subscribe. Because the signals are rebroadcast from space satellites, reception is fairly uniform across the entire country. Here is where you can read more about it.
A while back I wrote in that I test drove a Pilot and experienced a terrible wind noise with the windows down - didn't matter how many were down. I received helpful advice about aerodynamics and possibly seatbelt fluttering. Turns out the seatbelt wasn't it. Has anyone experimented with wind/rain guards on the front windows, or perhaps is the vehicle I am looking at flawed? I'm currently overseas and only had access to one Pilot as a sample. Also looking at a Volvo XC (2003 model), which while overseas is basically even with the Pilot on price and features, with no wind noise. Any input from Pilot owners would be greatly appreciated before paying such a high price!
I have a deposit on a Pilot from a coastal San Diego County dealer. Dealer pricing at the time of deposit was $1000 over MSRP - non-negotiable. Just rec. call that Pilot was on the way and that the dealer had revoked the over MSRP policy - now being sold at MSRP with no DIO's. Trust me, this dealer is always the highest, so switch to MSRP is a VERY clear signal that they are losing sales to others and the days of over MSRP are history. Pilot is actually my backup plan if efforts to grab a 2002 MDX fall through.
The Pilot's "over MSRP" days were destined to go away quickly because, like the Accord, it is a well executed and desirable offering, but it is uninspiring and doesn't have a clear advantage over the competition in this segment.
Also, with the MDX hovering only a few thousand dollars above the Pilot, there never was a lot of headroom for markup.
IMO, my friends and I take the results as a marketing thinky. In other words, a grain of salt. We don't use it at all and I doubt they are really that accurate.
IMO again, I think you'll find the best results about an auto is from people that owns and drives it.
It comes down to who do you trust. Ex: With all the accounting scandals also out there, can you trust that company stock that you buy is telling the truth on earnings???
eagleeye3-I am in SD and interested in the Pilot. I ended up putting a 500$ deposit on a sagebrush green at a dealer up the coast that promises no markup. But when it comes in, I am expecting a different story. I need a backup plan. Can you email me the dealer that changed its tune?
I picked up our new Sagebrush EX on Friday. Paid MSRP with 4 dealer options that were below cost here in Chicago. The color is definetly closer to steel gray then it is to green but it depends what light it is in. It is a very strange phenomenon because the look changes, sometimes gray, sometimes green, sometimes blue. Definetly much less green than I was expecting/wanted but I still like it.
One question that the dealer couldn't figure out is how to adjust the front seat head rests. They wouldn't go up and I can't figure out how to raise them and lock them in in a higher position. Any ideas??
I have experienced none of the rattles or gas tank noises or window noises that everyone has been talking about.
The height is exactly as advertised for those with garage height issues.
All in all I have to say I like the vehicle a lot. I wanted the MDX but for $7,000 less for a comparable vehicle I am very pleased so far.
There was some discussion of this issue a long time ago on this site. Not sure how the Pilot does in this department but the problem is likely "buffeting" which seems to now normally occur on a # of cars. I'm not sure the exact cause of the noise other than its because of how air enters the vehicle and some possible harmonic reverberation that develops.
It will be interesting to hear if more drivers complain of this problem on the Pilot, and how extensive it is. Some cars are bad enough that they will buffet with very little air entering vehicle.
I just know on our 2000 Jetta that if you drive over 30mph with the back windows all the way down, the buffeting is near deafening.
My guess is that this problem didn't happen when cars were less aerodynamic and air would be pushed around the vehicle, as opposed to now when it slides along the car.
"One question that the dealer couldn't figure out is how to adjust the front seat head rests. They wouldn't go up and I can't figure out how to raise them and lock them in in a higher position. Any ideas??"
I am interested in the Honda Pilot, but after looking at it, I am concerned that it might be impossible to install my daughter’s car seat in the middle of the second row. There is no LATCH system in that position, and the seatbelt is kind of unusual (it comes down from the ceiling). Can any of you who own a Pilot tell me what your experience has been installing a car seat in that spot? I want to make sure I can get a very tight fit. I am ready to sell my Highlander because it has been such a pain to get car seats installed correctly in the center.
In my MDX the center position is tricky. I think the MDX has a center latch system, however I am unable to find a car seat with that system built in.
Now for the installation, it is difficult to get a tight fit, but not impossible. First of all, you know you have to pull the seat belt all of the way out so it will only retract? I find keeping the belt pulled way out and tightening toward the drivers side rear door, rather than up gets the best fit. Then I allow the slack to retract while holding the belt tight against the car seat, so after the slack is taken up, it is still a tight fit. The retract only feature is good, however it only will retract if the slack is more than about 1/2" so if you don't hold the belt position tight by the seat, while kneeling in the seat and letting the slack up, you get too much movement in the car seat, and have to start over.
Are you sure the Pilot doesn't have a center latch system? I believe the MDX does.
If you have the type of LATCH connectors that are flexible, Honda claims that you can use the "inner" connectors of the left and right LATCH positions.
Otherwise the center belt can be used, with some setup effort to make the belt as taut as possible. Basically you should pull the belt out all the way, thread it, and then slowly let it retract. Then, you buckle the seat and let it retract more. Now the fun part begins -- you push your knee into the seat (basically you climb onto it), which lets more slack retract, especially if you pull on the belt.
Then the final trick ... carefully unbuckle the seat belt and let it retract out another couple of inches. Then it's a struggle to drive your knee into the seat again and clip the buckle closed.
Best done with two people (one person on the seat, the other on the buckle side). The seat fit we have is so tight that at a car seat checkup event, the child safety technician was really surprised. She tried helping me with a re-installation and I wasn't happy with the resulting level of play, even though she said it was perfectly acceptable. Then I adjusted it my way and she was amazed.
There are also retractor-thingies that try to spool the belt tight. I haven't used those.
"I am ready to sell my Highlander because it has been such a pain to get car seats installed correctly in the center."
While a center installation seems possible, it doesn't sound easy to me. Going to the Pilot from the Highlander may not provide any benefit in this regard.
I would think that it would be cheaper and easier to keep shopping car seats, rather than replace the car under it. Many retailers will allow you to test the fit of a car seat before you buy it. Unless you've exhausted every possibility already, I'd say keep shopping for a better car seat.
It is my understanding that the LATCH system is something that a vehicle has, not the child seat. Any child seat should be LATCH-compatible to a LATCH-equipped vehicle, if used with a LATCH kit. One only needs to get the LATCH kit, which is basically just a tether that can be tightened to secure the seat to the LATCH system.
However, some newer child seats include the tether when purchased. Older child seats do not have the tethers but can be purchased at most baby stores.
Canada has required the tether attachment for some time - the US since the 2000 (??) model year. I have 4 car/booster seats. Two came with the tether strap and two I retrofitted with kits offered by the car seat maker.
LATCH (Lower Anchors and Tethers for CHildren) which adds a standardized lower mounting point for all cars/car seats. Automakers have been offering LATCH compatible rear seats for a couple of years now by mounting steel rings in the rear seats. Car seat makers have been offering retrofit kits (belts and hooks) for existing car seats and are required to manufacturer only LATCH compatible seats starting in Sept 2002. Acceptable LATCH devices will include the current belt/hook kit and hard hook attachments on the car seat.
The goal is to eliminate the issue with using seat belts to restrain car seats. With so many types of seat belts, locking clips, etc. it has become difficult to properly restrain a car seat. It's ultimate goal is to allow a parent to safely and easily install car seats in any vehicle the is LATCH compatible. With the hard mounted hooks, all one needs to do is simply hook the car seat into the rings and attach the tether - no adjusting belts, using clips, climbing in the seat to press it down, etc.
It's coming just in time for my oldest to get out of his booster...as always a day late and a dollar short.
You can purchase a latch kit as mentioned above, but it seems the same as attaching a seatbelt? just different anchor points. I believe, that new latch compatible seats will have hardened attachments built right into the seat that "snap" into place. I will have to take a look at carseat.org. Thanks for the link.
I bought the kit for I think 20 bucks at babies r us for my ody. it works really well.
Basically a lap belt with a hook on each end and it's adjustable. the hooks snap into the anchor points between the seat crevasses. With it you can put the carseat in the middle and not have the seat belt stretch all the way across blocking the entrance to the back.
...I was just trying to get clarification whether all child seats are LATCH-compatible if one gets a LATCH kit. I'm not aware that there are specific LATCH-compatible seats.
I'm afraid to think that it may be another marketing ploy by child seat manufacturers to confuse consumers into thinking that they cannot use their existing car seats with the LATCH system. Therefore, consumers would need to buy a new child seat to use the LATCH system.
As far as I know, I can use the LATCH system with any child seat as long as I have the LATCH kit.
On paper, a car seat built specifically for LATCH is better than a non-LATCH car seat that uses an adapter kit. Better securement, usually. That is not to say that using such kits are unsafe, especially if you buy one that is matched to your seat.
Most of the conversion kits are simply belts that thread through and click onto the lower anchors. The true LATCH seats simply have a very short belt or metal bar to attach to the LATCH points.
All LATCH seats can be used in non-LATCH vehicles because manufacturers aren't going to give up the non-LATCH market and allow for the use of standard seat belts.
"If you have the type of LATCH connectors that are flexible, Honda claims that you can use the "inner" connectors of the left and right LATCH positions." WMquan, this is VERY interesting. Is this Honda's official position on this? I'm sure a salesperson would tell me that if I wanted to hear it, but I'm curious if you heard this from the mfr. itself. Most car seat install experts caution against this because it has not been crash tested. However, I was very encouraged when Britax recently informed me that I could do it in the Highlander as long as the inner anchor points were not more than 20" apart. Can someone with a Pilot please measure the distance between the two inner anchor points and let me know what it is?? I would really appreciate it.
SBcooke I am VERY interested to know whether or not your MDX has LATCH in the center. That would be very unusual, but not unheard of (I know Chrysler vehicles have 3 LATCH positions). It's rare because the law requires them to put it in only two seating positions, and they normally choose the outside.
As for finding a LATCH car seat, you may be pleased to know that Britax is going to release a couple of them any day now. There will be a Roundabout with LATCH that goes to 40 pounds (30 pounds rear facing), but the one I'm dying for is called the Britax Marathon. This is an all new seat that will allow you to keep your child in a 5 point harness all the way to 65 pounds!!! You have to start using the seatbelt to strap it into the car after 48 pounds because the LATCH anchors may not be strong enough to go to 65.
I know it seems crazy that I want to get a new car. I really didn't explain the whole story. I had a Fisher-Price Safe Embrace car seat with a built in locking clip, and the built in clip somehow damaged by seatbelt very badly and I had to have it replaced. I think it happened because the seatbelt was riding up too high in the clip because the middle seat is so narrow in the Highlander(hard to explain) I use a Britax Roundabout now, and it's in very tight. Nevertheless, I have this lingering bad feeling about having my entire back seat taken apart to replace the seatbelt and about seeing that my child's car seat was held in place by a belt that was nearly ripped through. I'm also concerned that the dealer may not have used the right torque when they bolted everything back together. I didn't realize that the Highlander didn't have LATCH in the center when I bought it, so that was I big let down. If Honda really says that it's okay to use the inner prongs in the center, I may just go for it and get a Pilot. It would be nice to have something bigger anyway.
Please note that the "Paluch" referenced in the article is Frank Paluch, described in another review as Honda's "chief engineer ... in charge of bringing the Pilot to market." Not sure if that qualifies him to make the comment.
I realize that this setup has not been crash tested, but I would think that it's quite logical that the pair of inner points are as secure as any other pair, wouldn't you say? I'd think that it was okay but obviously it's not something that is normally tested.
The MDX does not have three LATCH positions, just two, just like in the Pilot. As you pointed out, you don't see three too often.
I am interested in the new Britax seats too. I am especially interested in the new infant seat (Companion) and the newer version of the Super Elite (Husky). Also the Marathon you mentioned. Unfortunately, Britax has been super-slow in introducing new product, in quantity, to North America.
Your original post seemed to specify the tether attachment which I take to mean the top strap that mounts the the rear dash. I presumed you were not aware of the seat cushion mounting points as well.
As for the LATCH retrofit kits, the car seat mfrs and inspectors will advise you to use only the kits made by your specific car seat manufacturer and only with the seats they specify. IE, use a Century kit with a Century seat only if Century says it works with it. The manufacturers will only certify and stand behind products they say it will work with. I could not retrofit an older seat I had with the tether attachment because the manufacturer said it could not handle the stresses of the tether.
elizasmom - I hope someone releases a LATCH seat soon. My understanding is that they cannot manufacture non LATCH seats after 9/1/02 but they can continue to sell whatever inventory they have left after that date.
Wow wmquan, that's a great article. I think I may call the Honda 800 number to confirm what he's saying. It does seem logical that it would be allowed, and, as I said, Britax says it's okay with their seats as long as the distance is less than 20". Would someone mind measuring for me? Please! It seems like it might be more than 20" because the seat is so wide. Thanks!
I checked last night and as above...only latch positions in the outboard seats. The clips are close enough to the center seat that if you were using a flexible latch connector (strap based) you could easily secure a single seat in the center using it. You could not however secure multiple seats using the latch system, you would have to have only 2 outside seats latched and a center seat belted.
Thanks for the clarification. So, there are going to be LATCH child seats. I guess because I have not seen one meant that there weren't any. Anyway, I think that I will have to settle for the LATCH kit for the Britax Roundabout (I have 2 of these child seats) when Britax makes the kit available. I checked their website yesterday and I did not find one. If someone else found the kit, please let me know. Thanks.
I believe federal law will mandate that all cars and car seats have to be latch compatible by this fall? I think it is September, but that is only what I roughly remember from something I rougly remember reading.
I use the latch kit with the tether my car seat came with. That car seat is rigid. Especially since I slide the seat backwards to tighten the tether even more.
I love the latch system because I can move the actual seat to the outside, or take the entire seat out without having to remove the carseat.
Even if Honda does say it's okay to use the center position, which needs to be confirmed, the distance between the inner LATCH anchors should be measured. If it's more than 20", Britax will tell you not to do it. Their seats are not tested to have the LATCH straps at such an angle. Anyone willing to measure?
From inside edge to inside edge, it measures just about 20". From outside edge to outside edge, it's about 22". I've got car seats already in the outboard positions, so it's hard to get it down any more accurate than that. I would guess that my accuracy is +/- a half of an inch. I would recommend you find one at a dealer and try the Britax seat in there and check the fit, then measure to verify if it meets their standards.
Thanks for measuring. That's a shame that it's borderline. I will need to ask Britax how it should be measured, and I will try one out as you suggest.
On another note, I called Honda today and they said that it would be okay to fake a LATCH in the center using the inner prongs. I didn't get the feeling I was talking to someone who was really confident about it though. Maybe I'll wait for the 2004 Honda and have everyone I know and their mother contact Honda and ask for LATCH in the center.
Comments
I don't know what grade of gas that deal add to my first tank. I think it should be 87. It log 309 mile before I add 18.8 gal of 93 as the second tank. So it gives me 16.4 m/g with only 66 mile of local drive. Judging by the way I drive, this is not bad.
The second tank logged 312 mile by adding 16.232 gal of 93, the M/G is 19 with about 100 local drive.
The third tank logged 351 mile by adding 16.288 gal of 93, the M/G is 21.55 with pure highway drive.
The fourth tank logged 370 mile by adding 16.333 gal of 87, the M/G is 22.65 with pure highway drive.
The fifth tank haven't empty yet. The meter still show about a quarter tank of gas left with 300 mile on the log already. I think it will definitely beat 23 this time.
I did find out that there is some difference between premium gas and regular gas. Since my first three tank (exclude the dealer add one) are all premium, once I change it to regular, I can feel the engine lost some torque on accelerating. I think this is why you need to use premium when towing according to the manual. However, it seems to me that the regular will give you better gas mileage. Since I haven't finished the last tank, I can't confirm that yet. But judging by half-tank result, the regular beat the premium.
I ordered the fog lights, cross bar, mud flap and the auto day/night mirror from www.hondaaccessories.com today. I will post the install story once I have them.
Along this 1600+ miles trip, only bump into one Pilot on the road. It was on the Ohio Turn-pike and the car is a green one. Since I got to go at the time, I didn't slow down and greet the driver, guess he might still be breaking it in.
I did hear some noise like the windshield cracking sound on the left side of the body when I drove at about 30 m/h and hit some bumps. It is hard to recognize if it is not at low speed with all speaker turned off. Will check the strut as some other owner suggested.
Happy Piloting!
Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
-mike
>The Havasu blue LX with tons of options including 3rd party wheels is still on the lot from June stickering for 31k.
I think dealers that do this indiscremently WILL get themselves in a bind. Vehicles that sit on their lots too long cost money, as factory 'hold back' money shrinks after 45 days and disappers after 90.
>It's sad that other dealers can't run their business well enough to make a fair profit without turning away potential long term customers.
The dealers that GOUGE aren't doing it becuase they have to, but because the think they can get away with it. Any dealer who can't make a profit at MSRP should just close the store. The factory will help line-up potential buyers for dealerships that want out. In reality, very few Honda dealerships change hands. The salesfolks who claim the "ups & extras" are NEEDED are full of you-know-what...
On the car buyer side, I think the number of families that own multiple Hondas (one measure of owner loyalty) is highest among all makes. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean the LIKE the dealers, just the vehicles!
http://www.auto.com/industry/satis16_20020816.htm
tidester
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SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
Also looking at a Volvo XC (2003 model), which while overseas is basically even with the Pilot on price and features, with no wind noise.
Any input from Pilot owners would be greatly appreciated before paying such a high price!
Also, with the MDX hovering only a few thousand dollars above the Pilot, there never was a lot of headroom for markup.
IMO, my friends and I take the results as a marketing thinky. In other words, a grain of salt.
We don't use it at all and I doubt they are really that accurate.
IMO again, I think you'll find the best results about an auto is from people that owns and drives it.
It comes down to who do you trust. Ex: With all the accounting scandals also out there, can you trust that company stock that you buy is telling the truth on earnings???
-mike
Can you email me the dealer that changed its tune?
Thanks.
One question that the dealer couldn't figure out is how to adjust the front seat head rests. They wouldn't go up and I can't figure out how to raise them and lock them in in a higher position. Any ideas??
I have experienced none of the rattles or gas tank noises or window noises that everyone has been talking about.
The height is exactly as advertised for those with garage height issues.
All in all I have to say I like the vehicle a lot. I wanted the MDX but for $7,000 less for a comparable vehicle I am very pleased so far.
It will be interesting to hear if more drivers complain of this problem on the Pilot, and how extensive it is. Some cars are bad enough that they will buffet with very little air entering vehicle.
I just know on our 2000 Jetta that if you drive over 30mph with the back windows all the way down, the buffeting is near deafening.
My guess is that this problem didn't happen when cars were less aerodynamic and air would be pushed around the vehicle, as opposed to now when it slides along the car.
Hope that helps,
PileIt
The front row headrests don't adjust.
Now for the installation, it is difficult to get a tight fit, but not impossible. First of all, you know you have to pull the seat belt all of the way out so it will only retract? I find keeping the belt pulled way out and tightening toward the drivers side rear door, rather than up gets the best fit. Then I allow the slack to retract while holding the belt tight against the car seat, so after the slack is taken up, it is still a tight fit. The retract only feature is good, however it only will retract if the slack is more than about 1/2" so if you don't hold the belt position tight by the seat, while kneeling in the seat and letting the slack up, you get too much movement in the car seat, and have to start over.
Are you sure the Pilot doesn't have a center latch system? I believe the MDX does.
Otherwise the center belt can be used, with some setup effort to make the belt as taut as possible. Basically you should pull the belt out all the way, thread it, and then slowly let it retract. Then, you buckle the seat and let it retract more. Now the fun part begins -- you push your knee into the seat (basically you climb onto it), which lets more slack retract, especially if you pull on the belt.
Then the final trick ... carefully unbuckle the seat belt and let it retract out another couple of inches. Then it's a struggle to drive your knee into the seat again and clip the buckle closed.
Best done with two people (one person on the seat, the other on the buckle side). The seat fit we have is so tight that at a car seat checkup event, the child safety technician was really surprised. She tried helping me with a re-installation and I wasn't happy with the resulting level of play, even though she said it was perfectly acceptable. Then I adjusted it my way and she was amazed.
There are also retractor-thingies that try to spool the belt tight. I haven't used those.
Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
While a center installation seems possible, it doesn't sound easy to me. Going to the Pilot from the Highlander may not provide any benefit in this regard.
I would think that it would be cheaper and easier to keep shopping car seats, rather than replace the car under it. Many retailers will allow you to test the fit of a car seat before you buy it. Unless you've exhausted every possibility already, I'd say keep shopping for a better car seat.
However, some newer child seats include the tether when purchased. Older child seats do not have the tethers but can be purchased at most baby stores.
Or am I incorrect?
LATCH (Lower Anchors and Tethers for CHildren) which adds a standardized lower mounting point for all cars/car seats. Automakers have been offering LATCH compatible rear seats for a couple of years now by mounting steel rings in the rear seats. Car seat makers have been offering retrofit kits (belts and hooks) for existing car seats and are required to manufacturer only LATCH compatible seats starting in Sept 2002. Acceptable LATCH devices will include the current belt/hook kit and hard hook attachments on the car seat.
The goal is to eliminate the issue with using seat belts to restrain car seats. With so many types of seat belts, locking clips, etc. it has become difficult to properly restrain a car seat. It's ultimate goal is to allow a parent to safely and easily install car seats in any vehicle the is LATCH compatible. With the hard mounted hooks, all one needs to do is simply hook the car seat into the rings and attach the tether - no adjusting belts, using clips, climbing in the seat to press it down, etc.
It's coming just in time for my oldest to get out of his booster...as always a day late and a dollar short.
Go to www.carseat.org and click on LATCH.
Basically a lap belt with a hook on each end and it's adjustable. the hooks snap into the anchor points between the seat crevasses. With it you can put the carseat in the middle and not have the seat belt stretch all the way across blocking the entrance to the back.
I'm afraid to think that it may be another marketing ploy by child seat manufacturers to confuse consumers into thinking that they cannot use their existing car seats with the LATCH system. Therefore, consumers would need to buy a new child seat to use the LATCH system.
As far as I know, I can use the LATCH system with any child seat as long as I have the LATCH kit.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/childps/csr2001/csrhtml/LATCH.html
Most of the conversion kits are simply belts that thread through and click onto the lower anchors. The true LATCH seats simply have a very short belt or metal bar to attach to the LATCH points.
All LATCH seats can be used in non-LATCH vehicles because manufacturers aren't going to give up the non-LATCH market and allow for the use of standard seat belts.
SBcooke I am VERY interested to know whether or not your MDX has LATCH in the center. That would be very unusual, but not unheard of (I know Chrysler vehicles have 3 LATCH positions). It's rare because the law requires them to put it in only two seating positions, and they normally choose the outside.
As for finding a LATCH car seat, you may be pleased to know that Britax is going to release a couple of them any day now. There will be a Roundabout with LATCH that goes to 40 pounds (30 pounds rear facing), but the one I'm dying for is called the Britax Marathon. This is an all new seat that will allow you to keep your child in a 5 point harness all the way to 65 pounds!!! You have to start using the seatbelt to strap it into the car after 48 pounds because the LATCH anchors may not be strong enough to go to 65.
I know it seems crazy that I want to get a new car. I really didn't explain the whole story. I had a Fisher-Price Safe Embrace car seat with a built in locking clip, and the built in clip somehow damaged by seatbelt very badly and I had to have it replaced. I think it happened because the seatbelt was riding up too high in the clip because the middle seat is so narrow in the Highlander(hard to explain) I use a Britax Roundabout now, and it's in very tight. Nevertheless, I have this lingering bad feeling about having my entire back seat taken apart to replace the seatbelt and about seeing that my child's car seat was held in place by a belt that was nearly ripped through. I'm also concerned that the dealer may not have used the right torque when they bolted everything back together. I didn't realize that the Highlander didn't have LATCH in the center when I bought it, so that was I big let down. If Honda really says that it's okay to use the inner prongs in the center, I may just go for it and get a Pilot. It would be nice to have something bigger anyway.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?K4B635291
Please note that the "Paluch" referenced in the article is Frank Paluch, described in another review as Honda's "chief engineer ... in charge of bringing the Pilot to market." Not sure if that qualifies him to make the comment.
I realize that this setup has not been crash tested, but I would think that it's quite logical that the pair of inner points are as secure as any other pair, wouldn't you say? I'd think that it was okay but obviously it's not something that is normally tested.
The MDX does not have three LATCH positions, just two, just like in the Pilot. As you pointed out, you don't see three too often.
I am interested in the new Britax seats too. I am especially interested in the new infant seat (Companion) and the newer version of the Super Elite (Husky). Also the Marathon you mentioned. Unfortunately, Britax has been super-slow in introducing new product, in quantity, to North America.
As for the LATCH retrofit kits, the car seat mfrs and inspectors will advise you to use only the kits made by your specific car seat manufacturer and only with the seats they specify. IE, use a Century kit with a Century seat only if Century says it works with it. The manufacturers will only certify and stand behind products they say it will work with. I could not retrofit an older seat I had with the tether attachment because the manufacturer said it could not handle the stresses of the tether.
elizasmom - I hope someone releases a LATCH seat soon. My understanding is that they cannot manufacture non LATCH seats after 9/1/02 but they can continue to sell whatever inventory they have left after that date.
I love the latch system because I can move the actual seat to the outside, or take the entire seat out without having to remove the carseat.
On another note, I called Honda today and they said that it would be okay to fake a LATCH in the center using the inner prongs. I didn't get the feeling I was talking to someone who was really confident about it though. Maybe I'll wait for the 2004 Honda and have everyone I know and their mother contact Honda and ask for LATCH in the center.