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Comments
-mike
First, ask the dealer if they will support you if you decide to only do the hitch and something did happen to the transmission - reinforce that the hitch will be used only for a bike rack.
Don't install wiring for lighting - this at least shows no intent to pull a trailer.
The dealer can be your ally in this issue.
-mike
order an EX pilot, and install the navigation system aftermarket...price should be comparable, but maybe a little more than factory...but you are then saving $1500 by foregoing leather.
BTW, Toyota/Lexus's version of stability control is called VSC. The ML320's is called ESP. And, IIRC, Mercedes-Benz and Bosch jointly developed stability control. The stability control system in most German vehicles (MB's ESP and BMW's) is a step better than the stability control systems in Toyotas, Lexuses, and Acuras in that they are "full-range." MB's and BMW's work both when the vehicle is getting throttle and when the vehicle is braking. VSA and VSC only operate when you're not braking, so it covers less situations (e.g. when you try to slow down going around a slippery curve, and the vehicle starts to sip).
This all said, stability control is not a panacea. It will not defy the laws of physics, and shouldn't make SUV drivers cocky and think it will always prevent a rollover. Nevertheless, stability control is becoming more and more prevalent on vehicles and is recognized (e.g. by NHTSA, Consumers Union, IIHS) as a major enhancement to vehicle dynamics.
I had to laugh at that one, wmquan. It's like the AWD feature that make some people think that they can drive their SUV through 3 feet of rain during a flood or climb over concrete barriers to get to blocked off areas.
they had an EX and said they could install the DVD system aftermarket.
Has anyone had experience with going this route?
This would save me the Leather option.
It's always interesting how with every snowstorm, you see so many tough-looking SUV's stranded on the side of the road. Some of the less-experienced, and perhaps overconfident drivers tend to push too hard. These aren't just SUV's with relatively casual AWD systems either. I've seen plenty of JGC's, etc. stranded.
With VSA, at least in theory, the system would stop the tail-happiness and the vehicle would remain stable.
The situation that VSA/VSC doesn't help in is what I described previously. You're taking a curve on a relatively slick road, realize you're going too fast for the surface, brake, and the vehicle starts slipping (probably a fishtail). Because ABS is taking over, VSA/VSC disengage. Whereas ESP (for example) will actually still try to modulate (through pulsing individual brakes) the braking force on individual wheels, even "overriding" ABS to try to counter the skid. It can even "invert" the braking force to counteract the skid.
This distinction in stability control systems is usually ignored. I suspect that as stability control systems become more commonplace (as ABS eventually became), we'll hear more about this. Right now most of the effort is focused on getting some form of stability control in vehicles. I think BMW, MB, Volvo, etc. offer it in all their vehicles, and Toyota has it in most of their's now. I think the Japanese-market CR-V has VSA as well.
Again, it's not a panacea. There are all sorts of variables, including driver skill, quality of tires, vehicle design, etc. But it's just another significant safety feature aimed at improving the odds ever so more.
It will not really shorten stopping distances nor will it do much to keep a braking vehicle moving in the desired direction.
It is a way to keep brake pressure uniform to wheels .
Unfortunately Honda does a poor job of explaining this and dealers don't do any better.
Yes there are true aftermarket versions of the hardware that comes in a Pilot. Specifically it is available from Alpine. BUT (and this is huge) the software is different. All the goodies that Honda selects make for useful features like finding specific stores, resturants, hotels, and service stations when you are far from home, or even a few towns over. Alpine system has far less info.
Alpine's system is also more expensive and doesn't have the touch screen.
Finally, the idea that you can get the same info, at the same speed from a portable GPS is just not so.
The Honda system is DVD based. All the info is on the DVD and accessed very, very quickly. For the portable GPS systems you have to deal with getting the CDROM info into the unit's small memory. Just is not the same.
And finally, no, Honda does not make the Navi available as a DIO option. There are too many changes to the dash, radio and associated systems.
If you try a Navi equipped Honda (or Acura) you will see it is a very, very nice system and one that is not easy to duplicate!
The cloth EX has a vinyl covered center console and a rubber door armrest pad.
AWD, is there wheelspin before the rear wheels kick in? Mine does and I don't think it should.
A very good aftermarket NAV system is the "StreetPilot III" by Garmin.
It's only GPS based though (no gyro).
Now we owners of the Pilot need to email NHTSA the following message, or a version thereof. Email the message below to: webmaster@nhtsa.dot.gov (alternatively, use the web form on NHTSA safety hotline site at http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/email.cfm).
Message that needs to be conveyed to NHTSA by as many Pilot owners as possible goes as follows: "The 2003 Pilot headlights are very weak and do not sufficiently illuminate the road ahead. This creates a very serious driving hazard on the freeway especially at speeds as high as 70 mph. The Pilot's headlights fail to illuminate the curves in the freeway, and consequently, Pilots can veer off the highway and get into crashes. Apparently, the Honda company is aware of this problem but has chosen not to take any action. We appeal to NHTSA to urge Honda to recall and replace the defective headlights".
Feel free to modify the message above. Thank you.
I have no idea what you are talking about the headlights. I've never owned a vehicle that has done near as good a job of lighting up the highway. I'm not saying you have an invalid point, maybe my previous vehicles did an exceptionally poor job, and your's did an exceptionally good job.
Your Edmunds reviewer clearly writes "Also, the headlamps, which look impressive at first glance, didn't do a good job of illuminating the road at night, throwing a splotchy, shadowy pattern onto the ground that does little to inspire confidence at speeds higher than 60 mph." Honda corrected the MDX headlights but left the problem uncorrected on the Pilot. Please help us (and yourselves) correct safety issues by emailing NHTSA about this problem.
My wife's Odyssey's headrest is much more comfortable. Maybe this is something you get used to ? Do you find them comfortable ?
Thanks for your replies . . . it would be great to save the $$ over the Acura and get a Pilot . . .
Has anyone actually towed 4500 lbs through some hills and grades?
Has anyone actually envoked AWD and then the Differential "hard lock" feature??
Has anyone actually "pushed" this vehicle to find out just how it performs when driven hard?
The dealers are useless...They dont know and/or care? Their stock is virtually pre-sold. 2 Dealers so far were technically uninformed.
Test drives do nothing to test the vehicle.
Can any of you shed some light on the true performance of this vehicle??
The headrest is not just uncomfortable, for me it seems like unsafe to me. If you look at the MDX crash test, they say the dummy's head rebounced sqarely on the MDX's headrest, that is safe.
If your head rebounce onto the holed headrest, I would imagine it will twist your head or even hit your head with great force.
Really do not know the safety point of that hole in there.
I'm not sure I understand your question about towing and "pushing" the limits and driving hard -- are you asking for general impression, failures encountered, or specific performance data?
Do other dealers have access to the kind of information you seek? Do you currently have a trailer and tow vehicle combination that you want to compare to the Pilot?
1) Sends up to 50% of torque to the two rear wheels. The amount varies based on the gear and the speed. As the vehicle approaches 18mph, and stays within 1st, 2nd, or reverse gear, the amount diminishes.
2) The two rear wheels are "locked" in that they will not operate independently of each other. Equal amounts of torque are sent to each rear wheel. Thus there'll be some rub (and additional heat) if you turn while in this mode.
In VTM-4's other two modes of engagement, the two rear wheels can be set differing amounts of torque.
**I'm not sure I understand your question about towing and "pushing" the limits and driving hard**
In California towing up major grades is a big deal...The Grapevine to Central CA, Baker Grade to Nevada etc...
What is "rated" as towing capacity on flat land is whole other thing pulling up these babies on a hot day.
I would LOVE to hook my boat up (3200 lbs), add 4 kids and 3 adults and tow up to Pyramid Lake from Northern Los Angeles County.
But I can't. And it seems that no one has pushed theirs yet either.
What other SUV's should I consider in the $28-$40k range besides the Pilot? If I go above $40k, I'm likely to go for a new 2002 E320 Wagon with 4-matic for $2k under invoice ($49k total). We like the extra room an SUV offers, but the Mercedes Wagon is a much nicer ride, holds it's value extraordinarily well and is nearly as utilitarian as an SUV.
Also, it sounds like the Pilot has a few quirks (headlights, etc) that may get fixed in a year or so. I'm glad I waited for the 2002 model S2000. The "minor" improvements to the initial 2000/2001 model were quite significant, in my book. Has the MDX been "refined" since it was first introduced? I may not have the luxury of waiting, but I don't want to buy an initial model year Pilot with obvious design flaws.
Thanks for any input.
So, your offer of $500 under MSRP seems pretty good at this time.
I also echo your concerns about the quirks. Some of it may be Pilot-specific, but the recent recall on the water pump covers other Honda vehicles as well. I think I'll wait for the next model year or check out the 2003 MDX.
I doubt that you would be taxing the Pilot beyond its limits even with a boat & seven passengers. I do know that some manufacturers provide a "total weight of trailer, passengers & cargo" number that is sort of like the 'max. load', but I believe they base these ratings on the tires & brakes, and while descents can test the limits of sustained braking that should still fall within the operational limits.
Nobody is going to claim that a Pilot will best an Excursion or Suburban for maximum towing/hauling, but I do believe the Pilot should perform acceptably in the sitaution you describe.
If it does not, I would think that your use is entirely reasonable and the warranty should be in full force.
Good Luck!
You have the Max load rating which is equal to EVERYTHING that you put in or on the vehicle other than a driver and 1/2 tank of gas.
So let's say the pilot has 1500lbs max load. (cars.com didn't have a load rating for it) and you are towing a 4500lb boat trailer and have 7 passengers @ 175lbs each and 200lbs of gear.
1225lbs = Passengers 7*175
200lbs = Gear
~150lbs = Full tank of Fuel
450lbs = Tounge Weight of 4500lb Trailer
2025 = Total Load
That is a lot of load! Probably about 700lbs-1000lbs more than the load capacity of the Pilot.
-mike
Habitat - The recent C&D mag reports a 20hp boost for the MDX, DVD, and at least one other minor tweak (can't recall exactly what). I'd also take a look at the new Volvo crossover.
Towing capacity - Honda rates the towing capacity of the Pilot with 4 persons and their gear on board. (FWIW, other manufacturers calculate their rating with only a driver.) The towing figures do not include full 7-8 passenger capacity. If you add more than 4 people, start taking the weight off the trailer.
That seems odd way to calc out the towing capacity. So how would you change my equation above to match the honda calcs? Just curious.
-mike
Why would you want to risk your life, kids, and those around you with a combination at or over the safe limits of the pilot. Are going to run this combination over the scales each time you go on a trip?
You would find a larger vehicle to be an easier and safer drive.
It's also interesting that they say anything over 1000 lbs, you should have electric brake but they don't give you the wiring needed for the electric brake. The flat 4 wire connector doesn't provide for the electric brake you need at least 6 wires before you get the wire for the electric brake?
I towed my 1200 lbs trailer, 3 bikes, 4 people and camping gear up the Grapevine w/o any trouble, but that's really not pushing it.
-mike