..if you are only going to be using it for towing Bikes then you can get away with buying the "Trailer Hitch" Separately (ie not with the ATF and Power Steering Coolers). Its available separately from several online honda dealers for <$200 (hondaacuraworld, handaaccessories etc...). Then just use a hitch mounted bike carrier
First, ask the dealer if they will support you if you decide to only do the hitch and something did happen to the transmission - reinforce that the hitch will be used only for a bike rack.
Don't install wiring for lighting - this at least shows no intent to pull a trailer.
make sure the dealer will put that in writing. Cause anything they say is meaningless (most dealers will give you lip service til it comes time to pay the bills)
Sorry, I know this was a topic awhile ago but I'am looking for opinions. First, are there any problems with leather seats with wet clothes? ie. staining, water spots. Are seat covers viable solution? Second, where can you find Lexol? Looked for it in an automotive store, but could not find it. Special order item? I have no problem with cloth seats (which my 4 year old Honda has and are still in great shape), but you can only get a Pilot with NAVI in leather. I know most would want it that way, but I could forego the NAVI option if leather is a problem.
leather looks like crap and is a maintenance headache if you will be constantly getting it wet. In my experience with the leather in my CL-S, if you don't take the time to wipe it off and condition it properly after it gets wet, it looks dull, dirty and wrinkly. We have two teenagers, and since I figure they're past the spilling-food, barfing age, I prefer cloth for our "family vehicle" since I think it will require lower maintenance.
silverk21...you can have your cake and eat it too, my friend...
order an EX pilot, and install the navigation system aftermarket...price should be comparable, but maybe a little more than factory...but you are then saving $1500 by foregoing leather.
Can any one help me with the difference on Pilot's ABS with Electronic Brake Control+ VTM-4-wheel drive and the Toyota Highlander's VSC. The Dealer told me when you have ABS with Electronic Brake Control+ VTM-4-wheel drive they should function as "good" ( that's the world he used)as Highlander's or Benz ML 320's 'Vehicle Skid Control' I'm not sure he was correct on that? Thanks in advance for your input.
VTM-4 isn't bad, but the Pilot (and the MDX) still could use stability control (Honda/Acura's version is called VSA, for Vehicle Stability Assist). Figure that VSA will be added on later, and the future salesperson will be telling people how they can't live without it. ;-)
BTW, Toyota/Lexus's version of stability control is called VSC. The ML320's is called ESP. And, IIRC, Mercedes-Benz and Bosch jointly developed stability control. The stability control system in most German vehicles (MB's ESP and BMW's) is a step better than the stability control systems in Toyotas, Lexuses, and Acuras in that they are "full-range." MB's and BMW's work both when the vehicle is getting throttle and when the vehicle is braking. VSA and VSC only operate when you're not braking, so it covers less situations (e.g. when you try to slow down going around a slippery curve, and the vehicle starts to sip).
This all said, stability control is not a panacea. It will not defy the laws of physics, and shouldn't make SUV drivers cocky and think it will always prevent a rollover. Nevertheless, stability control is becoming more and more prevalent on vehicles and is recognized (e.g. by NHTSA, Consumers Union, IIHS) as a major enhancement to vehicle dynamics.
"This all said, stability control is not a panacea. It will not defy the laws of physics, and shouldn't make SUV drivers cocky and think it will always prevent a rollover"
I had to laugh at that one, wmquan. It's like the AWD feature that make some people think that they can drive their SUV through 3 feet of rain during a flood or climb over concrete barriers to get to blocked off areas.
Is it really true that it only works when you're not braking? That's not very comforting since, in my estimation, the vehicle spinning out or getting into a slide under braking would be a far more common occurrence.
Went to the dealer and saw the REC model in a color I didn't care for(Havasu Blue-yuk), but they had an EX and said they could install the DVD system aftermarket.
Has anyone had experience with going this route? This would save me the Leather option.
"It's like the AWD feature that make some people think that they can drive their SUV through 3 feet of rain during a flood or climb over concrete barriers to get to blocked off areas."
It's always interesting how with every snowstorm, you see so many tough-looking SUV's stranded on the side of the road. Some of the less-experienced, and perhaps overconfident drivers tend to push too hard. These aren't just SUV's with relatively casual AWD systems either. I've seen plenty of JGC's, etc. stranded.
Yes, Honda/Acura's VSA (and Toyota/Lexus's VSC), disengage when braking. They still provide benefit, though. The typical situation would be in an emergency avoidance maneuver, when you're cruising along and then have to avoid a sudden obstacle (car cutting in front of you, etc.). In those situations you're not liable to brake, but do a quick panic steer around, and then back in. If the surface is not particularly good, you could begin to slip. E.g. in the MDX, the tail can get a bit happy and pitch to the side.
With VSA, at least in theory, the system would stop the tail-happiness and the vehicle would remain stable.
The situation that VSA/VSC doesn't help in is what I described previously. You're taking a curve on a relatively slick road, realize you're going too fast for the surface, brake, and the vehicle starts slipping (probably a fishtail). Because ABS is taking over, VSA/VSC disengage. Whereas ESP (for example) will actually still try to modulate (through pulsing individual brakes) the braking force on individual wheels, even "overriding" ABS to try to counter the skid. It can even "invert" the braking force to counteract the skid.
This distinction in stability control systems is usually ignored. I suspect that as stability control systems become more commonplace (as ABS eventually became), we'll hear more about this. Right now most of the effort is focused on getting some form of stability control in vehicles. I think BMW, MB, Volvo, etc. offer it in all their vehicles, and Toyota has it in most of their's now. I think the Japanese-market CR-V has VSA as well.
Again, it's not a panacea. There are all sorts of variables, including driver skill, quality of tires, vehicle design, etc. But it's just another significant safety feature aimed at improving the odds ever so more.
Thanks for your comments. Did not know you could install a Navi after market. Is this Honda equipment? This would be a great option for those who want the Navi without leather.
I posed a message a while ago complaining about the constant creaking noise from the driver's door. It looks like that it is a rather frequent problem with these first Pilots, and it may come from any doors. Well mine was solved with the replacement of the door chanel, whatever that is. My dealer was smart enough to call Honda engineers, and was told the soloution and was supplied with the part. The door was difficult to close after the part replacement. But the dealer later twick something, and now it closes with ease. Other than the unfixable gas tand tidal noise, my Pilot is now a rather appealing driving machine. So if any of you still suffer from the crikets in the doors, ask your dealer to call Honda and do not allow them to fool around. Good luck.
Folks, too many people clearly have not researched what Navi does.
Yes there are true aftermarket versions of the hardware that comes in a Pilot. Specifically it is available from Alpine. BUT (and this is huge) the software is different. All the goodies that Honda selects make for useful features like finding specific stores, resturants, hotels, and service stations when you are far from home, or even a few towns over. Alpine system has far less info.
Alpine's system is also more expensive and doesn't have the touch screen.
Finally, the idea that you can get the same info, at the same speed from a portable GPS is just not so.
The Honda system is DVD based. All the info is on the DVD and accessed very, very quickly. For the portable GPS systems you have to deal with getting the CDROM info into the unit's small memory. Just is not the same.
And finally, no, Honda does not make the Navi available as a DIO option. There are too many changes to the dash, radio and associated systems.
If you try a Navi equipped Honda (or Acura) you will see it is a very, very nice system and one that is not easy to duplicate!
I took another look at the Pilot this morning and I stand by my previous opinion that the cloth looks awfully good. In the Canadian version, the cloth also has cloth door inserts but a leather-covered console cover/arm-rest.
I did not think you could get the Navi as a DIO. Thanks for the info. I would never go for an aftermarket Navi system like the ones you mentioned. I'am guessing that you have the Navi - sounds like you really like it. The new one offered in the Accord sounds even better than the one in the Pilot. Unfotunately, the only Pilots I have seen so far (haven't checked in a while though) did not have the Navi and all were EX's with leather. Leaning towards cloth, but the Navi sure would be nice. Decisions, decisions.
I've read a post suggesting dealers are wholesaling out LX's and Bad colored EX's!! Well I personally like the LX, due to the fact the 2nd row middle seat is trully useable!! The towing pkg, running boards, rear mud guards and roof rack cross bars (which come standard on the LX) are all extra's on BOTH the models!! Plus I personaly like the gray side stripe, it breaks up a very mundane look!! Not to mention the LOWER MSRP!! Mine is Taffeta White, I took what came up instead of waiting for a Havasu Blue but I must say it grows on you!! "nuff said"
Some of us were evidently successful in getting NHTSA & Honda to recall a safety defect in the 2003 Pilot (timing belt tensioner pulley misaligned, which may lead to a crash). You should be getting a letter in the mail soon.
Now we owners of the Pilot need to email NHTSA the following message, or a version thereof. Email the message below to: webmaster@nhtsa.dot.gov (alternatively, use the web form on NHTSA safety hotline site at http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/email.cfm).
Message that needs to be conveyed to NHTSA by as many Pilot owners as possible goes as follows: "The 2003 Pilot headlights are very weak and do not sufficiently illuminate the road ahead. This creates a very serious driving hazard on the freeway especially at speeds as high as 70 mph. The Pilot's headlights fail to illuminate the curves in the freeway, and consequently, Pilots can veer off the highway and get into crashes. Apparently, the Honda company is aware of this problem but has chosen not to take any action. We appeal to NHTSA to urge Honda to recall and replace the defective headlights".
the main thing to remember about aftermarket navi systems is that you can structure and setup the system to suit exactly what you need...go to a local auto-sound/video store, and they will have systems that range in price from around $1000 up to and over $10000! the factory system is great, but if you truly do not want the leather, then figure out which system is right for you, and from which store, and include that in your purchase...for a small fee, usually $100-$300, the dealer will do all the legwork for you, arrange installation, and include it in your payment if you wish.
The water pump problem happened to the Accords, Odysseys, and MDX's too! It was due to the manufacturing process of a certain lot of water pumps.
I have no idea what you are talking about the headlights. I've never owned a vehicle that has done near as good a job of lighting up the highway. I'm not saying you have an invalid point, maybe my previous vehicles did an exceptionally poor job, and your's did an exceptionally good job.
I agree with you about the headlights. It was the first and only negative I've found so far in my Pilot. However, I only notice this on very dark roads. There seems to be a very noticeable line in your field of vision where the light ends and its also very noticeable when you are on hilly roads. Does anyone know if the lights can be adjusted to point upward more? Highbeams seem to work great.
For sure they can be adjusted. I've never had to do it, but usually you'd just have to pop the hood and locate the adjustment mechanism in the area behind the headlight assembly. The owners' manual might show what it look like.
It would help if you email NHTSA at the address provided earlier. We are concerned about safety aspects of ALL vehicles, not just the Pilot. The Pilot's headlights are a LOT worse than the Acura MDX's. The problem about the weak headlights in the Pilot/MDX has been noticed by other professionals as well, including your Edmunds site which agrees with us. See for instance the road test by Edmunds at http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/roadtest/46521/article.html.
Your Edmunds reviewer clearly writes "Also, the headlamps, which look impressive at first glance, didn't do a good job of illuminating the road at night, throwing a splotchy, shadowy pattern onto the ground that does little to inspire confidence at speeds higher than 60 mph." Honda corrected the MDX headlights but left the problem uncorrected on the Pilot. Please help us (and yourselves) correct safety issues by emailing NHTSA about this problem.
Do you guys/girls find the headrests to be comfortable ? I sat in the Pilot and didn't find them very comfortable. On long drives I usually sit with my head resting on the headrest and I can't understand why there is a hole in it . . .
My wife's Odyssey's headrest is much more comfortable. Maybe this is something you get used to ? Do you find them comfortable ?
Thanks for your replies . . . it would be great to save the $$ over the Acura and get a Pilot . . .
on my own opion, I would agree the headlight is weak, even on normal city road. I am planning to switch to those HID bulbs (not the whole system).
The headrest is not just uncomfortable, for me it seems like unsafe to me. If you look at the MDX crash test, they say the dummy's head rebounced sqarely on the MDX's headrest, that is safe. If your head rebounce onto the holed headrest, I would imagine it will twist your head or even hit your head with great force. Really do not know the safety point of that hole in there.
The VTM button engages the rear wheels at their full torque to 18 mph. There is no way to "lock" anything. The VTM will still shift torque forward if the speed exceeds 18 mph even with the button engaged.
I'm not sure I understand your question about towing and "pushing" the limits and driving hard -- are you asking for general impression, failures encountered, or specific performance data?
Do other dealers have access to the kind of information you seek? Do you currently have a trailer and tow vehicle combination that you want to compare to the Pilot?
IIRC, this mode, which is one of three modes that VTM-4 works in, does the following:
1) Sends up to 50% of torque to the two rear wheels. The amount varies based on the gear and the speed. As the vehicle approaches 18mph, and stays within 1st, 2nd, or reverse gear, the amount diminishes.
2) The two rear wheels are "locked" in that they will not operate independently of each other. Equal amounts of torque are sent to each rear wheel. Thus there'll be some rub (and additional heat) if you turn while in this mode.
In VTM-4's other two modes of engagement, the two rear wheels can be set differing amounts of torque.
I have read that the MDX suffers during prolonged use of the VTM4 lock feature. i.e. it is useful for getting unstuck, but I wouldn't expect to drive 30 minutes across really soft sand where 4 low is required, you would probably have to stop and let the system rest/cool off.
Is what I was offered over the phone by my Honda dealer. Is that as good a deal as I can expect? I bought a 2002 S2000 from them at $900 under MSRP last November. Our 1996 Isuzu Trooper appears to have a blown engine and unless Isuzu offers to contribute to the fix, I'll be dumping the Trooper (it is under 60k milage limit, but 9 months over the 5 year drivetrain warranty).
What other SUV's should I consider in the $28-$40k range besides the Pilot? If I go above $40k, I'm likely to go for a new 2002 E320 Wagon with 4-matic for $2k under invoice ($49k total). We like the extra room an SUV offers, but the Mercedes Wagon is a much nicer ride, holds it's value extraordinarily well and is nearly as utilitarian as an SUV.
Also, it sounds like the Pilot has a few quirks (headlights, etc) that may get fixed in a year or so. I'm glad I waited for the 2002 model S2000. The "minor" improvements to the initial 2000/2001 model were quite significant, in my book. Has the MDX been "refined" since it was first introduced? I may not have the luxury of waiting, but I don't want to buy an initial model year Pilot with obvious design flaws.
I received an offer of $500 over MSRP from a local dealer, and this was the *internet price*. I kindly turned the offer down and mentioned that I will wait a while longer and see what the 2003 MDX brings to the table. At this point, I was given the 'schpiel' that I will wait a long, long time since the Pilot is the best thing since sliced bread and that prices will always be above MSRP.
So, your offer of $500 under MSRP seems pretty good at this time.
I also echo your concerns about the quirks. Some of it may be Pilot-specific, but the recent recall on the water pump covers other Honda vehicles as well. I think I'll wait for the next model year or check out the 2003 MDX.
If I understand, you are concerned that the "rating" may not reflect the kind of drive one might encounter when driving to higher elevations.
I doubt that you would be taxing the Pilot beyond its limits even with a boat & seven passengers. I do know that some manufacturers provide a "total weight of trailer, passengers & cargo" number that is sort of like the 'max. load', but I believe they base these ratings on the tires & brakes, and while descents can test the limits of sustained braking that should still fall within the operational limits.
Nobody is going to claim that a Pilot will best an Excursion or Suburban for maximum towing/hauling, but I do believe the Pilot should perform acceptably in the sitaution you describe.
If it does not, I would think that your use is entirely reasonable and the warranty should be in full force.
You have the Max load rating which is equal to EVERYTHING that you put in or on the vehicle other than a driver and 1/2 tank of gas.
So let's say the pilot has 1500lbs max load. (cars.com didn't have a load rating for it) and you are towing a 4500lb boat trailer and have 7 passengers @ 175lbs each and 200lbs of gear.
1225lbs = Passengers 7*175 200lbs = Gear ~150lbs = Full tank of Fuel 450lbs = Tounge Weight of 4500lb Trailer 2025 = Total Load
That is a lot of load! Probably about 700lbs-1000lbs more than the load capacity of the Pilot.
Just saw the color, not bad. It's darker than traditional 'champagne' beiges and slightly less gold, more grey. It is not as dark as the Mesa Beige that Honda has now.
I've been told that the holes in the head rests prevent the occupant's head from rebounding to the left and right. Kinda like the way that bumpers make it easier for a novice pool player to land a ball in the corner pockets. I haven't found any documentation that confirms this, but there it is.
Habitat - The recent C&D mag reports a 20hp boost for the MDX, DVD, and at least one other minor tweak (can't recall exactly what). I'd also take a look at the new Volvo crossover.
Towing capacity - Honda rates the towing capacity of the Pilot with 4 persons and their gear on board. (FWIW, other manufacturers calculate their rating with only a driver.) The towing figures do not include full 7-8 passenger capacity. If you add more than 4 people, start taking the weight off the trailer.
Funkcity from what you have decribed regarding vehicle load, trailer load, and grade you should consider a heavier platform for a tow vehicle.
Why would you want to risk your life, kids, and those around you with a combination at or over the safe limits of the pilot. Are going to run this combination over the scales each time you go on a trip?
You would find a larger vehicle to be an easier and safer drive.
NOt according to the owner's manual, it tells you that the tow rating comes down drastically as you load up the vehicle with people and gear. There is a table that gives you what you can tow. I don't remember the figure right now but you should look it up. It's also interesting that they say anything over 1000 lbs, you should have electric brake but they don't give you the wiring needed for the electric brake. The flat 4 wire connector doesn't provide for the electric brake you need at least 6 wires before you get the wire for the electric brake? I towed my 1200 lbs trailer, 3 bikes, 4 people and camping gear up the Grapevine w/o any trouble, but that's really not pushing it.
I was very pleased with my Pilot EX during the break in period, however when I started driving above 60 mph I noticed stearing wheel vibrations that increased with speed followed by stearing wheel shake. During it's peak you can feel the vibrations and shaking in the stearing wheel, front floorboards and door panels. After neumerous trips to the Honda dealer the vehicle still acts the same. The dealer had all 4 tires rebalanced several times including the use of a balancing machine that calculates road force. I brought my Pilot to a Goodyear dealer who replaced all 4 tires with the same kind. The problem still exhists. My Honda dealer and reginal Honda Rep. have not offered any suggestions or help trying to remidy the problem. I have driven 5 different Pilots (all EX models)and found 2 with the same condition. This only occurs after the vehicle has been driven about 20 to 30 miles. I have been following Town Hall messages for some time and have read several dealing with road noise but this seams a little more severe. Has anyone experienced this problem and if so how was it remedied.
Comments
-mike
First, ask the dealer if they will support you if you decide to only do the hitch and something did happen to the transmission - reinforce that the hitch will be used only for a bike rack.
Don't install wiring for lighting - this at least shows no intent to pull a trailer.
The dealer can be your ally in this issue.
-mike
order an EX pilot, and install the navigation system aftermarket...price should be comparable, but maybe a little more than factory...but you are then saving $1500 by foregoing leather.
BTW, Toyota/Lexus's version of stability control is called VSC. The ML320's is called ESP. And, IIRC, Mercedes-Benz and Bosch jointly developed stability control. The stability control system in most German vehicles (MB's ESP and BMW's) is a step better than the stability control systems in Toyotas, Lexuses, and Acuras in that they are "full-range." MB's and BMW's work both when the vehicle is getting throttle and when the vehicle is braking. VSA and VSC only operate when you're not braking, so it covers less situations (e.g. when you try to slow down going around a slippery curve, and the vehicle starts to sip).
This all said, stability control is not a panacea. It will not defy the laws of physics, and shouldn't make SUV drivers cocky and think it will always prevent a rollover. Nevertheless, stability control is becoming more and more prevalent on vehicles and is recognized (e.g. by NHTSA, Consumers Union, IIHS) as a major enhancement to vehicle dynamics.
I had to laugh at that one, wmquan. It's like the AWD feature that make some people think that they can drive their SUV through 3 feet of rain during a flood or climb over concrete barriers to get to blocked off areas.
they had an EX and said they could install the DVD system aftermarket.
Has anyone had experience with going this route?
This would save me the Leather option.
It's always interesting how with every snowstorm, you see so many tough-looking SUV's stranded on the side of the road. Some of the less-experienced, and perhaps overconfident drivers tend to push too hard. These aren't just SUV's with relatively casual AWD systems either. I've seen plenty of JGC's, etc. stranded.
With VSA, at least in theory, the system would stop the tail-happiness and the vehicle would remain stable.
The situation that VSA/VSC doesn't help in is what I described previously. You're taking a curve on a relatively slick road, realize you're going too fast for the surface, brake, and the vehicle starts slipping (probably a fishtail). Because ABS is taking over, VSA/VSC disengage. Whereas ESP (for example) will actually still try to modulate (through pulsing individual brakes) the braking force on individual wheels, even "overriding" ABS to try to counter the skid. It can even "invert" the braking force to counteract the skid.
This distinction in stability control systems is usually ignored. I suspect that as stability control systems become more commonplace (as ABS eventually became), we'll hear more about this. Right now most of the effort is focused on getting some form of stability control in vehicles. I think BMW, MB, Volvo, etc. offer it in all their vehicles, and Toyota has it in most of their's now. I think the Japanese-market CR-V has VSA as well.
Again, it's not a panacea. There are all sorts of variables, including driver skill, quality of tires, vehicle design, etc. But it's just another significant safety feature aimed at improving the odds ever so more.
It will not really shorten stopping distances nor will it do much to keep a braking vehicle moving in the desired direction.
It is a way to keep brake pressure uniform to wheels .
Unfortunately Honda does a poor job of explaining this and dealers don't do any better.
Yes there are true aftermarket versions of the hardware that comes in a Pilot. Specifically it is available from Alpine. BUT (and this is huge) the software is different. All the goodies that Honda selects make for useful features like finding specific stores, resturants, hotels, and service stations when you are far from home, or even a few towns over. Alpine system has far less info.
Alpine's system is also more expensive and doesn't have the touch screen.
Finally, the idea that you can get the same info, at the same speed from a portable GPS is just not so.
The Honda system is DVD based. All the info is on the DVD and accessed very, very quickly. For the portable GPS systems you have to deal with getting the CDROM info into the unit's small memory. Just is not the same.
And finally, no, Honda does not make the Navi available as a DIO option. There are too many changes to the dash, radio and associated systems.
If you try a Navi equipped Honda (or Acura) you will see it is a very, very nice system and one that is not easy to duplicate!
The cloth EX has a vinyl covered center console and a rubber door armrest pad.
AWD, is there wheelspin before the rear wheels kick in? Mine does and I don't think it should.
A very good aftermarket NAV system is the "StreetPilot III" by Garmin.
It's only GPS based though (no gyro).
Now we owners of the Pilot need to email NHTSA the following message, or a version thereof. Email the message below to: webmaster@nhtsa.dot.gov (alternatively, use the web form on NHTSA safety hotline site at http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/email.cfm).
Message that needs to be conveyed to NHTSA by as many Pilot owners as possible goes as follows: "The 2003 Pilot headlights are very weak and do not sufficiently illuminate the road ahead. This creates a very serious driving hazard on the freeway especially at speeds as high as 70 mph. The Pilot's headlights fail to illuminate the curves in the freeway, and consequently, Pilots can veer off the highway and get into crashes. Apparently, the Honda company is aware of this problem but has chosen not to take any action. We appeal to NHTSA to urge Honda to recall and replace the defective headlights".
Feel free to modify the message above. Thank you.
I have no idea what you are talking about the headlights. I've never owned a vehicle that has done near as good a job of lighting up the highway. I'm not saying you have an invalid point, maybe my previous vehicles did an exceptionally poor job, and your's did an exceptionally good job.
Your Edmunds reviewer clearly writes "Also, the headlamps, which look impressive at first glance, didn't do a good job of illuminating the road at night, throwing a splotchy, shadowy pattern onto the ground that does little to inspire confidence at speeds higher than 60 mph." Honda corrected the MDX headlights but left the problem uncorrected on the Pilot. Please help us (and yourselves) correct safety issues by emailing NHTSA about this problem.
My wife's Odyssey's headrest is much more comfortable. Maybe this is something you get used to ? Do you find them comfortable ?
Thanks for your replies . . . it would be great to save the $$ over the Acura and get a Pilot . . .
Has anyone actually towed 4500 lbs through some hills and grades?
Has anyone actually envoked AWD and then the Differential "hard lock" feature??
Has anyone actually "pushed" this vehicle to find out just how it performs when driven hard?
The dealers are useless...They dont know and/or care? Their stock is virtually pre-sold. 2 Dealers so far were technically uninformed.
Test drives do nothing to test the vehicle.
Can any of you shed some light on the true performance of this vehicle??
The headrest is not just uncomfortable, for me it seems like unsafe to me. If you look at the MDX crash test, they say the dummy's head rebounced sqarely on the MDX's headrest, that is safe.
If your head rebounce onto the holed headrest, I would imagine it will twist your head or even hit your head with great force.
Really do not know the safety point of that hole in there.
I'm not sure I understand your question about towing and "pushing" the limits and driving hard -- are you asking for general impression, failures encountered, or specific performance data?
Do other dealers have access to the kind of information you seek? Do you currently have a trailer and tow vehicle combination that you want to compare to the Pilot?
1) Sends up to 50% of torque to the two rear wheels. The amount varies based on the gear and the speed. As the vehicle approaches 18mph, and stays within 1st, 2nd, or reverse gear, the amount diminishes.
2) The two rear wheels are "locked" in that they will not operate independently of each other. Equal amounts of torque are sent to each rear wheel. Thus there'll be some rub (and additional heat) if you turn while in this mode.
In VTM-4's other two modes of engagement, the two rear wheels can be set differing amounts of torque.
**I'm not sure I understand your question about towing and "pushing" the limits and driving hard**
In California towing up major grades is a big deal...The Grapevine to Central CA, Baker Grade to Nevada etc...
What is "rated" as towing capacity on flat land is whole other thing pulling up these babies on a hot day.
I would LOVE to hook my boat up (3200 lbs), add 4 kids and 3 adults and tow up to Pyramid Lake from Northern Los Angeles County.
But I can't. And it seems that no one has pushed theirs yet either.
What other SUV's should I consider in the $28-$40k range besides the Pilot? If I go above $40k, I'm likely to go for a new 2002 E320 Wagon with 4-matic for $2k under invoice ($49k total). We like the extra room an SUV offers, but the Mercedes Wagon is a much nicer ride, holds it's value extraordinarily well and is nearly as utilitarian as an SUV.
Also, it sounds like the Pilot has a few quirks (headlights, etc) that may get fixed in a year or so. I'm glad I waited for the 2002 model S2000. The "minor" improvements to the initial 2000/2001 model were quite significant, in my book. Has the MDX been "refined" since it was first introduced? I may not have the luxury of waiting, but I don't want to buy an initial model year Pilot with obvious design flaws.
Thanks for any input.
So, your offer of $500 under MSRP seems pretty good at this time.
I also echo your concerns about the quirks. Some of it may be Pilot-specific, but the recent recall on the water pump covers other Honda vehicles as well. I think I'll wait for the next model year or check out the 2003 MDX.
I doubt that you would be taxing the Pilot beyond its limits even with a boat & seven passengers. I do know that some manufacturers provide a "total weight of trailer, passengers & cargo" number that is sort of like the 'max. load', but I believe they base these ratings on the tires & brakes, and while descents can test the limits of sustained braking that should still fall within the operational limits.
Nobody is going to claim that a Pilot will best an Excursion or Suburban for maximum towing/hauling, but I do believe the Pilot should perform acceptably in the sitaution you describe.
If it does not, I would think that your use is entirely reasonable and the warranty should be in full force.
Good Luck!
You have the Max load rating which is equal to EVERYTHING that you put in or on the vehicle other than a driver and 1/2 tank of gas.
So let's say the pilot has 1500lbs max load. (cars.com didn't have a load rating for it) and you are towing a 4500lb boat trailer and have 7 passengers @ 175lbs each and 200lbs of gear.
1225lbs = Passengers 7*175
200lbs = Gear
~150lbs = Full tank of Fuel
450lbs = Tounge Weight of 4500lb Trailer
2025 = Total Load
That is a lot of load! Probably about 700lbs-1000lbs more than the load capacity of the Pilot.
-mike
Habitat - The recent C&D mag reports a 20hp boost for the MDX, DVD, and at least one other minor tweak (can't recall exactly what). I'd also take a look at the new Volvo crossover.
Towing capacity - Honda rates the towing capacity of the Pilot with 4 persons and their gear on board. (FWIW, other manufacturers calculate their rating with only a driver.) The towing figures do not include full 7-8 passenger capacity. If you add more than 4 people, start taking the weight off the trailer.
That seems odd way to calc out the towing capacity. So how would you change my equation above to match the honda calcs? Just curious.
-mike
Why would you want to risk your life, kids, and those around you with a combination at or over the safe limits of the pilot. Are going to run this combination over the scales each time you go on a trip?
You would find a larger vehicle to be an easier and safer drive.
It's also interesting that they say anything over 1000 lbs, you should have electric brake but they don't give you the wiring needed for the electric brake. The flat 4 wire connector doesn't provide for the electric brake you need at least 6 wires before you get the wire for the electric brake?
I towed my 1200 lbs trailer, 3 bikes, 4 people and camping gear up the Grapevine w/o any trouble, but that's really not pushing it.
-mike