Foglights are a DIO...MSRP is $389 + install. Using the build your own pilot you can see that and other DIOs
...and yes no sunroof available from Honda, most speculation is its on purpose to differentiate it from the MDX (and honda found the majority folks will still buy it w/o)...Several folks are installing aftermarket Moonroofs...Webasto makes a really nice one that you can get for under a $1k
and based on 3 adults and 4 kids I believe he is well within the safe towing region.
If said he wanted to tow a 4500 lbs boat and have three adults passengers he'd still be OK as he has 1300 lbs of tow weight to spare, so even if you calculate 4 kids == 3 adults and use 225 as the weight for each adult there is STILL 625 lbs of excess capacity 4500- 3200 = 1300 , 1300 -(3*225)= 625.
This is simply not a situation that warrants a "BIG" towing vehicle. An Excursion can tow 11,000 lbs., nearly TRIPLE what funkcity is dealing with!
Anyone who tows on a regular basis know that you don't want to be @ the limit 75% max of the "capacity" is the general rule of thumb when towing. My guess is that a 3200lb boat with 4 adults would be ok. but a 4500lb boat with 4 adults might be pushing it.
I mean, honestly, even if you had an Excursion and you REGULARLY needed to tow 5 and half tons would you use the Excursion for commuting and runs to the QuikeeMart?
Using your rule of thumb, should manufacturers quote the full capacity, knowing that only greenhorns would try to tow the full capacity and then the manufacturers 'sharpie' lawyers will laugh away the warranty claims & lawsuits OR do manufactures quote the 75% capacity and wink at the "experienced tow jockeys" who can safely exceed this rating by 25% so long as it is not done on a "regular basis"?
Error on the side of safety is all I'm saying. Is it really worth putting your family, property and friends at risk? Only you can decide.
For instance I tow 5000lbs 2-3x a year on the interstate with my Trooper that has a 5K towing capacity. In the summers I tow fairly regularly (2x a month) a 3500lb boat trailer up and down the mts. of the Adirondacks. If I were towing a 5000lb boat trailer instead of the 3500lb one, I would upgrade to a larger tow vehicle.
DOOOOOD we are saying the same thing! Afterall funkcity is talking about a 3200 boat, even smaller than yours.
As I originally posted, he is well within the 4500 lbs rating.
As varmint helped to point out, Honda does specify the limit in a more real world way, with four adults and a reasonable amount of belongings.
If funkcity gets a big 5000 lbs boat he ought to go for something bigger.
The Trooper cargo rating of from 895 lb on Limited models to 1055 lb on manual transmission 4WD models with towing capacity of 5000 lb. is thisclose to Pilot with 4 adults, their gear and a 4500 lbs boat.
The trooper can do that with any trailer, and not trailer package required.
But yes we were saying the same thing. I was unaware of how honda calculated (and still haven't seen any documentation to support it) it's towing/capacity ratings.
A number of MDX owners have reported transmission failures. I believe the Pilot uses the same one. It looks like Honda has confirmed that there has been a problem. Big black eye for Honda/Acura, and they had better step up to the plate and address this issue (e.g. by going beyond the warranty in replacing transmissions).
"Of 1 million vehicles sold in the U.S. with those transmissions ... Honda has replaced the transmissions in about 16,000, or 1.6%."
"The five-speed models typically were damaged by premature wear of the third-gear clutch pack. As the clutch friction material abraded, it scattered bits inside the transmission case, clogging fluid lines and causing erratic shifting."
I'm looking for a seat cover for my Pilot passenger bucket seat. My Golden likes my Pilot as much as I do and ride with me. I'd like to protect the leather.
"While many competitive vehicles feature towing capacity figures boasting a high maximum tow rating, some sacrifice of passengers and cargo may be necessary to suitably accommodate this maximum load. The Pilot's 1588/2041kg rating is calculated to include up to four passengers and their cargo."
From Honda of Canada. The US site doesn't go into as much detail. Sorry, neither goes into detail regarding tongue weight. Someone with an owner's manual may be able to enlighten us on that detail.
There is another option for people that do not want cloth or the leather that Honda offers. It is after market leather, can be ordered thru the dealer too. I am having Classic Trim leather added to a EX that I ordered with cloth. I got to pick from many shades and I decided to get 2 tone leather too. I will be getting my Sandstone this week or next and will have the leather changed out before I take delivery. The dealer here has done this to several cloth models that came in on his allocation. It costs about $1400.00 or $100+ over factory. You can get it perfed or solid, I am getting solid saddle color with camel panels for accent. You also get all three seats covered in leather for this price and the door panel insert. I hope this did not sound too much like a commercial.
I picked up my EX Monday. It was supposed to have the hood deflector the dealer had ordered, but instead I got a "We owe you" for a new design deflector. I asked the salesman if it was to fix the noise problem. He said, "Yes," and asked how I knew about that.
I love the vehicle, but am a bit annoyed that the doors don't lock automatically and even more annoyed that I have to unlock my door before I can open it to get out. The master switch is in an awkward spot and the door lock is even harder to get to. Does anybody have a solution?
What is this new design deflector, and do the NEW Pilots have these? Where does it fit? Is it a standard thing now or ONLY if the customer asks for it? I am picking up our new Pilot today :-) It would be good to know.
...is 450 lbs. and is not included with the full cargo capacity of the pilot. it is in addition to it. the measurements used are with 4 adults at an average of 180 lbs. each, and 150 lbs. of cargo and gear. add these up, and the pilot has a towing capacity of 4500 lbs. with a boat, 3500 with a trailer.
the difference has to do with the fact that a boat is better balanced on a trailer designed for it, and that its much more aerodynamic.
Thanks gang for all your input. As of today I am now a proud Pilot Owner!! Pearl Black, Leather, Running Boards, Rear Splash Guards, DVD---(Kids are already going nuts!), Tow kit with transATF cooler, and power steering cooler. Wayyy cool!
So after 500~1000 mile breakin, I will send a boat towin report. Local Lake Castaic here has a pretty mean hill to climb to get to the upper lake. If it passes that test I will up the anti and go for Pyramid Lake and the Grapevine.
There is a complete chart in the owners manual Tongue Weight, amount of people, compensate for this and that.yada,yada! I will know how "real" all of this is with one short towing trip. Also, I didnt sell the 454 Suburban just yet...It will be delegated to those "big" fully-loaded trips
The 1.6% failure rate Honda gave in that article is rigged. They combined the number of failures in the 5-sp auto with 4-sp auto used in Accords.
5-sp autos in Acura CL / TL are dying in a higher rate.
Honda is doing nothing about the problem yet. I am going to wait and see if the problem shows up in the Pilot before deciding whether or not to buy it.
I am going for a new Honda Pilot EX. It comes with a 3yr/36000 miles warranty. The dealer says it is a good idea to get the Ext. Warranty by Honda Care. I understand the dealer wants to sell as much as he can. But what do you people think? I was going through the Honda Care brochure (Ext. Warranty sold by Honda) and it says in there that parts are not covered.
First off, keep in mind that the dealer cost for the Honda Care 7yr/100K $0 deductable warranty (the most common one) is ~$1075 ... so make sure your dealer isnt gouging you other than the a little markup for there time in writing it up for you (Honda also pays them nicely for doing warranty work). I've never bought one, but I've been told it's nearly identical in coverage to the 3/36 you get with the car (ie just an extension of that) and I thought parts etc are covered just like the regular one.
To buy or not to buy is a personal choice (personnally I never do). It's sort of a gamble...do you think between that extended time period you will have $1100 worth of warranty repairs that will make it worth it (it could save you lots of money or you could be throwing it away). I also think that you can go back and add the extended warranty at a later date.
All dealers want you to purchase the extended warranty as there is a huge profit margin for them. As stated previously a failure after the factory warranty runs out may or may not happen.
A couple of things to consider. How long do you plan to own the Pilot and how much risk are you willing to take? I have never purchased an extended warranty with any product. I also have never had any major failure outside of the warranty. Should something occur in the future it should be more than covered by the money I have saved over the years by not purchasing an extended warranty. Good luck with your Pilot.
"...but I've been told it's nearly identical in coverage to the 3/36 you get with the car (ie just an extension of that)..."
Not really as there are a lot of uncovered items but the MAJOR components are covered i.e. drivetrain. You can buy the extended warranty up until the factory warranty expires so that gives you a hair less than 3yrs/36k miles to decide.
Picked up our black EX leather on the 9th. Love it. Paid MSRP.
Would be very grateful for information on the kind of fluid the VTM4 needs. What kind of fluid is it? Does it have to be from Honda, or can one get it from any auto parts store?
The manual also says to change the washers when changing the VTM4 fluid and the oil filter. Are these special washers?
The manual says to use oil without any additives and the additives may harm the engine. Are there oils in auto parts stores that do not contain additives?
The manual also says to NOT change oil until the scheduled (3,750 miles the way we use the car) time when breaking the car in. Why is this?
The same manual also specifies for more frequent oil change in severe driving conditions. Does this not contradict the advice to not to do the first oil change until the scheduled time?
Does one need special tools for changing the VTM4 fluid?
The VTM fluid is something that is designed just for the VTM unit, while the unit is similar to other electronically actuated torque transfer devices, there is no 'generic' fluid for it -- use the stuff sold at Honda parts!
The washers are not "magic" but the size and composition will be much easier to get from Honda parts than anywhere else.
As to additives, I belive the wording is such that Honda is merely warning not to add so called "aftermarket additives" to your oil -- don't waste money on the stuff advertised on infomercials as it may do more harm than good. The recommendation for engine oil weight/grade is such that any oil from a major seller (Pennzoil, Quaker State, Mobil, Kendall etc) is OK! The so-called "additive packages" that are in all these oils are merely viscosity enhancers/stabilizers and detergents that all automakers agree to. It would be in the oil you bought at Honda dealer or anywhere else. The SAE grade/certification is pretty much universal.
Finally, Honda does recommend that the INITIAL oil change happen after a specific mileage to allow for 'operational break-in' of the internal engine parts. Part of this is due to the initial oil that was installed at the factory having a different formulation then the regular oil. That oil is designed to build up a surface lubrication that will last the entire life of the engine. This is NOT contradictory to the schedule for "severe duty", merely follow the initial schedule for the first oil change, then change the oil on the regular or severe schedule based on driving...
The American Honda Motor Company, Inc. has requested ALLDATA restrict access to Acura and Honda repair information by individual consumers. You will unfortunately not be able to register for access to Acura or Honda vehicle repair information, technical service bulletins or recalls.
We kindly request that all comments should be directed to: American Honda Motor Co., Inc. P. O. Box 2206 700 Van Ness Ave. Torrance, CA 90501
Honda: 800-999-1009 Acura: 800-382-2238
Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience this may have caused you.>>>>>>
Most of the TSBs are listed right there on the site, also.
What they're talking about are full TSBs - telling you the problem and how to fix it. And notice that BMW doesn't disclose its TSBs to customers either. Most likely they don't want the average Joe Schmoe reading the literature and thinking that he can fix the problem himself (TSBs are technically internal documents, i.e. you shouldn't know about them anyway).
But if you want to know if there is a TSB for your Honda, the site lists them. It just won't tell you how to fix it. And neither will TSBs for Ford or GM or Toyota - you would have to pay for their full TSBs too ($24.95 for a single vehicle, $14.95 for additional ones). With Honda/Acura and BMW, you just can't get them even if you wanted to pay for them. Everything is explained in plain ole English on that site. Just gotta read before coming here and making it seem like a conspiracy, that's all. Nothing really interesting.
I purchased the $25 subscription for my vehicle and am very glad I did.
The additional access you recieve (specific diagnosis, repair instructions, diagrams, and much greater detail about each TSB) has allowed me to work my Nissan dealer into fixing all issues I have even remotely thought might apply to my vehicle (especially right before warranty expiration).
I would simply describe the exact symptom as explained in the TSB as occuring in my car (if it actually did and sometimes it did) and ask for them to look at it.
When the inevitable "vehicle is operating to factory spec" came back from the dealer, then I would nicely ask them if they check for any TSB's that might have been issed.
They always found the same TSB as I had and fixed the issue under warranty.
Well worth the $25 on a $30k vehicle in my opinion. (And no I have no affiliation with AllData.)
With Honda and Acura blocking AllData, I've just taken them off my short list for vehicles that I'd consider buying (and the MDX/Pilot was on that list)!
There are two or three sides to that story. I recently got an ear full of stories from the girl friend of an Acura mechanic. Apparently, people armed with TSB information are most often the most misinformed individuals they deal with. There are plenty of owners, like Dklanecky, who know how to read them, but there are also plenty who do not.
The most salient example would be the guy who brought in his car demanding that they fix a problem described in the TSB. The guy had the whole thing printed out and was waving it around. The problem in the TSB was for cars with a manual transmission. His car was a automatic. Yet, he swore up and down that he was experiencing that problem. The customer made such a stink about it, the service tech took the car in back, washed it, cleaned the interior, but made no mechanical changes to the car. They returned it to the customer (free of charge) and told him they had "made some changes".
The next time they saw him, he boasted about how the car was running better, thanks to his expert knowledge. He probably posts on these forums, claiming how great it is to have access to TSB information.
Personally, I would prefer that Honda publish the information. Knowledge is knowledge. It can be both used and abused. It only takes a little explaining to correct misguided TSB users. Okay. maybe some lengthy explaining... But, I can also see where Honda is coming from. If the customer took the same intelligent approach to describing and investigating the problem with the car, they should be able to get it fixed without the TSB.
I was disagreeing with your last comment ("Nothing really interesting.").
I believe it is very interesting that Honda/Acura would decide to take this step at this time (with their new/redesigned products coming to market).
While I have a "healthy relationship/partnership" with my dealer (Nissan), I certainly don't trust them to automatically look out for my best interests when it comes to maintaining the vehicles that carry my family.
Off topic:
Nissan had a significant drop in several of the consumer satisfaction ratings when the new Altima was introduced, partially because of the large amount of (relatively)insignificant TSB's they issued in an attempt to really get the product right.
I wonder if Honda is simply thinking about delaying or preventing a similar drop with their new products???
Dklanecky, it's taken me a while to figure it out, but now I try to let the experts diagnose things while limiting my input to symptoms I'm experiencing. I still try to forearm myself with potential solutions to augment my horsehockey detection meter, but I think it works to my advantage to let the pro come up with the solution (initially at least).
This holds true for me in most everything, not just cars.... Steve Host SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Steve- I completely agree. Sure it's nice to arm yourself, but come on...if you really knew how fix the problem, your car wouldn't be at the shop nor would you have to pay the mechanic who's performing the work.
I see the MDX has a all-new 5-speed automatic for '03. I wonder the new Pilot also has this new tranny, or is it the old (trouble-prone) unit reported below?
I would think both the MDX and Pilot transmissions would be included here if there was the same issue? It is possible that in order to send power to the front and rear via the vtm4 system that the wear is not the same?
I haven't seen the Pilot or MDX listed in any of the articles. I think it's pretty safe to say that it isn't the same unit, or, if it is, it doesn't share the component in question.
The current Pilot and the 2001/2002 MDX do not appear to have the transmission problems affecting other Hondas/Acuras. At least so far. Else the extension of the transmission warranty would have included them. Supposedly the 2001/2002 MDX and Pilot transmissions are "beefed-up" versions of the 5-speed that has been having problems. This to facilitate AWD and some towing. It would appear, at least on the surface, that the "beefing up" or whatever was done has avoided the problems affecting the TL and CL.
However, the 2003 MDX and some other vehicles have a redesigned, "compact" transmission with shorter shafts. It is different than the 2003 Pilot's -- someone on another system posted some detailed diagrams on the 2003 Pilot's, 2002 MDX's, and 2003 MDX's transmissions, and the first two looked identical but the third was way different.
Also on another system, an Acura mechanic claimed that he noticed an exterior casing of the 2002 MDX's transmission is ribbed while the problematic TL's/CL's are not. Possibly for more cooling. He's noticed that the new replacement TL/CL transmissions he's been getting now have the same case as the MDX. A theory is that the TL's/CL's are being fixed with some of the "beefed up" parts of the MDX's transmission. It is, of course, just a theory.
So in summary, this is the current thinking, subject to change:
1) The problematic 5-speed (prone to failure) is not the 2001/2002 MDX's transmission, which appears to be fine according to Acura.
2) The 2003 Pilot and the 2001/2002 MDX share the same transmission, so the Pilot should be fine as well, and Honda is not saying otherwise.
3) There's a new-design transmission in the 2003 MDX that is not in the 2003 Pilot. Maybe in the 2004?
Comments
Did I missed it or it's a DIO??
...and yes no sunroof available from Honda, most speculation is its on purpose to differentiate it from the MDX (and honda found the majority folks will still buy it w/o)...Several folks are installing aftermarket Moonroofs...Webasto makes a really nice one that you can get for under a $1k
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Funkcity was asking about towing a 3200 lbs. boat funkcity Sep 9, 2002 8:11pm
and based on 3 adults and 4 kids I believe he is well within the safe towing region.
If said he wanted to tow a 4500 lbs boat and have three adults passengers he'd still be OK as he has 1300 lbs of tow weight to spare, so even if you calculate 4 kids == 3 adults and use 225 as the weight for each adult there is STILL 625 lbs of excess capacity 4500- 3200 = 1300 , 1300 -(3*225)= 625.
This is simply not a situation that warrants a "BIG" towing vehicle. An Excursion can tow 11,000 lbs., nearly TRIPLE what funkcity is dealing with!
-mike
I mean, honestly, even if you had an Excursion and you REGULARLY needed to tow 5 and half tons would you use the Excursion for commuting and runs to the QuikeeMart?
Using your rule of thumb, should manufacturers quote the full capacity, knowing that only greenhorns would try to tow the full capacity and then the manufacturers 'sharpie' lawyers will laugh away the warranty claims & lawsuits OR do manufactures quote the 75% capacity and wink at the "experienced tow jockeys" who can safely exceed this rating by 25% so long as it is not done on a "regular basis"?
Curious minds would like to know?
For instance I tow 5000lbs 2-3x a year on the interstate with my Trooper that has a 5K towing capacity. In the summers I tow fairly regularly (2x a month) a 3500lb boat trailer up and down the mts. of the Adirondacks. If I were towing a 5000lb boat trailer instead of the 3500lb one, I would upgrade to a larger tow vehicle.
-mike
As I originally posted, he is well within the 4500 lbs rating.
As varmint helped to point out, Honda does specify the limit in a more real world way, with four adults and a reasonable amount of belongings.
If funkcity gets a big 5000 lbs boat he ought to go for something bigger.
The Trooper cargo rating of from 895 lb on Limited models to 1055 lb on manual transmission 4WD models with towing capacity of 5000 lb. is thisclose to Pilot with 4 adults, their gear and a 4500 lbs boat.
But yes we were saying the same thing. I was unaware of how honda calculated (and still haven't seen any documentation to support it) it's towing/capacity ratings.
-mike
http://makeashorterlink.com/?K559111C1
"Of 1 million vehicles sold in the U.S. with those transmissions ... Honda has replaced the transmissions in about 16,000, or 1.6%."
"The five-speed models typically were damaged by premature wear of the third-gear clutch pack. As the clutch friction material abraded, it scattered bits inside the transmission case, clogging fluid lines and causing erratic shifting."
Bill
From Honda of Canada. The US site doesn't go into as much detail. Sorry, neither goes into detail regarding tongue weight. Someone with an owner's manual may be able to enlighten us on that detail.
In general tounge weights will be 10% of the trailer weight.
-mike
I love the vehicle, but am a bit annoyed that the doors don't lock automatically and even more annoyed that I have to unlock my door before I can open it to get out. The master switch is in an awkward spot and the door lock is even harder to get to. Does anybody have a solution?
What is this new design deflector, and do the NEW Pilots have these?
Where does it fit?
Is it a standard thing now or ONLY if the customer asks for it?
I am picking up our new Pilot today :-)
It would be good to know.
Thanx!
the difference has to do with the fact that a boat is better balanced on a trailer designed for it, and that its much more aerodynamic.
As of today I am now a proud Pilot Owner!!
Pearl Black, Leather, Running Boards, Rear Splash Guards, DVD---(Kids are already going nuts!), Tow kit with transATF cooler, and power steering cooler.
Wayyy cool!
So after 500~1000 mile breakin, I will send a boat towin report. Local Lake Castaic here has a pretty mean hill to climb to get to the upper lake. If it passes that test I will up the anti and go for Pyramid Lake and the Grapevine.
Stay Tuned!
-mike
There is a complete chart in the owners manual
Tongue Weight, amount of people, compensate for this and that.yada,yada!
I will know how "real" all of this is with one short towing trip.
Also, I didnt sell the 454 Suburban just yet...It will be delegated to those "big" fully-loaded trips
-mike
5-sp autos in Acura CL / TL are dying in a higher rate.
Honda is doing nothing about the problem yet. I am going to wait and see if the problem shows up in the Pilot before deciding whether or not to buy it.
I am going for a new Honda Pilot EX. It comes with a 3yr/36000 miles warranty. The dealer says it is a good idea to get the Ext. Warranty by Honda Care. I understand the dealer wants to sell as much as he can. But what do you people think?
I was going through the Honda Care brochure (Ext. Warranty sold by Honda) and it says in there that parts are not covered.
So what is the point in going for it?
Any points will be appreciated.
Thanks.
skarlekar.
First off, keep in mind that the dealer cost for the Honda Care 7yr/100K $0 deductable warranty (the most common one) is ~$1075 ... so make sure your dealer isnt gouging you other than the a little markup for there time in writing it up for you (Honda also pays them nicely for doing warranty work). I've never bought one, but I've been told it's nearly identical in coverage to the 3/36 you get with the car (ie just an extension of that) and I thought parts etc are covered just like the regular one.
To buy or not to buy is a personal choice (personnally I never do). It's sort of a gamble...do you think between that extended time period you will have $1100 worth of warranty repairs that will make it worth it (it could save you lots of money or you could be throwing it away). I also think that you can go back and add the extended warranty at a later date.
Anyway..enjoy the pilot!
A couple of things to consider. How long do you plan to own the Pilot and how much risk are you willing to take? I have never purchased an extended warranty with any product. I also have never had any major failure outside of the warranty. Should something occur in the future it should be more than covered by the money I have saved over the years by not purchasing an extended warranty. Good luck with your Pilot.
The price quoted by the dealer for the extended warranty is $1495 for 7yr/100,000.
Again thanks for the tips.
Not really as there are a lot of uncovered items but the MAJOR components are covered i.e. drivetrain.
You can buy the extended warranty up until the factory warranty expires so that gives you a hair less than 3yrs/36k miles to decide.
Would be very grateful for information on the kind of fluid the VTM4 needs. What kind of fluid is it? Does it have to be from Honda, or can one get it from any auto parts store?
The manual also says to change the washers when changing the VTM4 fluid and the oil filter. Are these special washers?
The manual says to use oil without any additives and the additives may harm the engine. Are there oils in auto parts stores that do not contain additives?
The manual also says to NOT change oil until the scheduled (3,750 miles the way we use the car) time when breaking the car in. Why is this?
The same manual also specifies for more frequent oil change in severe driving conditions. Does this not contradict the advice to not to do the first oil change until the scheduled time?
Does one need special tools for changing the VTM4 fluid?
How does one go about changing it?
Thanks in advance for the info!
The washers are not "magic" but the size and composition will be much easier to get from Honda parts than anywhere else.
As to additives, I belive the wording is such that Honda is merely warning not to add so called "aftermarket additives" to your oil -- don't waste money on the stuff advertised on infomercials as it may do more harm than good. The recommendation for engine oil weight/grade is such that any oil from a major seller (Pennzoil, Quaker State, Mobil, Kendall etc) is OK! The so-called "additive packages" that are in all these oils are merely viscosity enhancers/stabilizers and detergents that all automakers agree to. It would be in the oil you bought at Honda dealer or anywhere else. The SAE grade/certification is pretty much universal.
Finally, Honda does recommend that the INITIAL oil change happen after a specific mileage to allow for 'operational break-in' of the internal engine parts. Part of this is due to the initial oil that was installed at the factory having a different formulation then the regular oil. That oil is designed to build up a surface lubrication that will last the entire life of the engine. This is NOT contradictory to the schedule for "severe duty", merely follow the initial schedule for the first oil change, then change the oil on the regular or severe schedule based on driving...
The American Honda Motor Company, Inc. has requested ALLDATA restrict access to Acura and Honda repair information by individual consumers. You will unfortunately not be able to register for access to Acura or Honda vehicle repair information, technical service bulletins or recalls.
We kindly request that all comments should be directed to:
American Honda Motor Co., Inc.
P. O. Box 2206
700 Van Ness Ave.
Torrance, CA 90501
Honda: 800-999-1009
Acura: 800-382-2238
Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience this may have caused you.>>>>>>
Interesting eh?!?
What they're talking about are full TSBs - telling you the problem and how to fix it. And notice that BMW doesn't disclose its TSBs to customers either. Most likely they don't want the average Joe Schmoe reading the literature and thinking that he can fix the problem himself (TSBs are technically internal documents, i.e. you shouldn't know about them anyway).
But if you want to know if there is a TSB for your Honda, the site lists them. It just won't tell you how to fix it. And neither will TSBs for Ford or GM or Toyota - you would have to pay for their full TSBs too ($24.95 for a single vehicle, $14.95 for additional ones). With Honda/Acura and BMW, you just can't get them even if you wanted to pay for them. Everything is explained in plain ole English on that site. Just gotta read before coming here and making it seem like a conspiracy, that's all. Nothing really interesting.
I purchased the $25 subscription for my vehicle and am very glad I did.
The additional access you recieve (specific diagnosis, repair instructions, diagrams, and much greater detail about each TSB) has allowed me to work my Nissan dealer into fixing all issues I have even remotely thought might apply to my vehicle (especially right before warranty expiration).
I would simply describe the exact symptom as explained in the TSB as occuring in my car (if it actually did and sometimes it did) and ask for them to look at it.
When the inevitable "vehicle is operating to factory spec" came back from the dealer, then I would nicely ask them if they check for any TSB's that might have been issed.
They always found the same TSB as I had and fixed the issue under warranty.
Well worth the $25 on a $30k vehicle in my opinion. (And no I have no affiliation with AllData.)
With Honda and Acura blocking AllData, I've just taken them off my short list for vehicles that I'd consider buying (and the MDX/Pilot was on that list)!
The most salient example would be the guy who brought in his car demanding that they fix a problem described in the TSB. The guy had the whole thing printed out and was waving it around. The problem in the TSB was for cars with a manual transmission. His car was a automatic. Yet, he swore up and down that he was experiencing that problem. The customer made such a stink about it, the service tech took the car in back, washed it, cleaned the interior, but made no mechanical changes to the car. They returned it to the customer (free of charge) and told him they had "made some changes".
The next time they saw him, he boasted about how the car was running better, thanks to his expert knowledge. He probably posts on these forums, claiming how great it is to have access to TSB information.
Personally, I would prefer that Honda publish the information. Knowledge is knowledge. It can be both used and abused. It only takes a little explaining to correct misguided TSB users. Okay. maybe some lengthy explaining... But, I can also see where Honda is coming from. If the customer took the same intelligent approach to describing and investigating the problem with the car, they should be able to get it fixed without the TSB.
I believe it is very interesting that Honda/Acura would decide to take this step at this time (with their new/redesigned products coming to market).
While I have a "healthy relationship/partnership" with my dealer (Nissan), I certainly don't trust them to automatically look out for my best interests when it comes to maintaining the vehicles that carry my family.
Off topic:
Nissan had a significant drop in several of the consumer satisfaction ratings when the new Altima was introduced, partially because of the large amount of (relatively)insignificant TSB's they issued in an attempt to really get the product right.
I wonder if Honda is simply thinking about delaying or preventing a similar drop with their new products???
This holds true for me in most everything, not just cars....
Steve
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http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=3340
However, the 2003 MDX and some other vehicles have a redesigned, "compact" transmission with shorter shafts. It is different than the 2003 Pilot's -- someone on another system posted some detailed diagrams on the 2003 Pilot's, 2002 MDX's, and 2003 MDX's transmissions, and the first two looked identical but the third was way different.
Also on another system, an Acura mechanic claimed that he noticed an exterior casing of the 2002 MDX's transmission is ribbed while the problematic TL's/CL's are not. Possibly for more cooling. He's noticed that the new replacement TL/CL transmissions he's been getting now have the same case as the MDX. A theory is that the TL's/CL's are being fixed with some of the "beefed up" parts of the MDX's transmission. It is, of course, just a theory.
So in summary, this is the current thinking, subject to change:
1) The problematic 5-speed (prone to failure) is not the 2001/2002 MDX's transmission, which appears to be fine according to Acura.
2) The 2003 Pilot and the 2001/2002 MDX share the same transmission, so the Pilot should be fine as well, and Honda is not saying otherwise.
3) There's a new-design transmission in the 2003 MDX that is not in the 2003 Pilot. Maybe in the 2004?