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One thing to consider is that it takes time to redesign a transmission. Thus, the design for the new ones probably started a while ago, perhaps last year.
There are two schools of thought ...
1) That Honda knew there was a durability problem and was working on one for a while.
Aside: It could be that the Pilot and MDX have a "toughened" version and thus their failure rate/mileage is going to be different, which is why Honda has not listed the Pilot and MDX as being affected. On another system, we are comparing diagrams and parts lists between a 2002 CL and a 2002 MDX, and trying to identify the differences. Thus far, it looks like the transmission housing has some differences, but the third gear clutch diagram looks identical between the two (which is where Honda claims most of the 5-speed problems are originating). However, it looks as if the third gear clutches between the CL and MDX only share some parts, and not all, and that the MDX (and thus the Pilot, which has the same transmission as the MDX) is different in this regard.
2) That the new transmission has been in the works for a long time, for all Honda/Acura vehicles. New design, lighter weight, different gearing, etc.
Uhhmmm...performance enhancements to increase fuel efficiency, maybe.
I take off for 4 days and there's only a dozen or so new messages in here - what's the deal, are there no new Pilot owners out there?
Steve
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Uhhmmmm....while their correcting flaws, may as well provide enhancments, eh?
Whatever spin you throw at it, a new tranny after a year or two of production seems unusual.
One might claim that it is "unusual" for a base SUV to share pretty much the same drivetrain with its luxury brother. In which case, the need for an upgrade (regardless of fixes) becomes fairly reasonable.
No offense. I agree that it is unusual, but I think you're going to need more than that to support any allegations about there being a mechanical problem behind the change. That appears to be what you are suggesting.
I'm not saying spit, piker. If you took the time to follow the thread, you would see others raised the question.
"One might claim that it is "unusual" for a base SUV to share pretty much the same drivetrain with its luxury brother". Ever hear of the Toyota Highlander and Lexus RX300?
"....In which case, the need for an upgrade (regardless of fixes) becomes fairly reasonable".
And if you had been listening at home, you would have noticed that someone already has stated that the Pilot transmission is not being upgraded, only the MDX.
I'll say it again since you seem to be having problems following along - "Whatever spin you throw at it, a new tranny after a year or two of production seems unusual".
This forum is great for gaining knowledge about all the issues/problems that could happen. I just never see any posts that say everything turned out well and I am really happy with the vehicle (so far)
Yes, it is unusual. So what?
this period, so that cost recovery over an 8-year-period is appropriate. So what? It's all about profits my friend.
Between changes in displacement, fuel injection changes, and transmision enhancements even historically long lived designs from Volvo, BMW and others get refreshed far more frequently than 8-10 years. Heck even formerly glacial movement in the medium duty truck transmission design has seen much more rapid changes as the offering of high output turbo diesels and electronic transmission controls have become widespread.
While I do agree that Acura has choosen to be more vocal about changes to the 03 MDX's tranny, I know that MANY manufacturers do in fact ENHANCE transmissions to coincide with increases in power AND/OR in anticipation of even larger future gains in power...
I suspect that Honda has been devoting more effort to tranny design/development ever since coming out with the redesigned Oddy. Although those who tow are a minority, they are vocal and often are a great window into larger, more powerful vehicle usage. It would make sense that they want to expand the "family" of Heavy Duty transmissions in their SUV & minivan offering to capture more of the profitable 'larger vehicle' sales...
I researched vehicles for 2 years before buying the Pilot and am very happy with my selection. IMHO there is nothing close to this vehicle within this price range.
-mike
I didn't notice any additional wind noise with the cross bars I put in. Gas milage is 15 city and 20 highway with low grade gas going 80 on the highway with air conditioning going.
All in all a great vehicle, love it, haven't taken it offroad yet.
love_mazda - Now it's money? Just so you understand my confusion... I didn't see the link to money when you wrote, "while their correcting flaws, may as well provide enhancements, eh?" Thanks for clearing that up.
As for transmissions, I think that both sides are correct to a certain degree. Basic tranny designs do last a while. However, they are updated, upgraded, and tweaked on a regular basis. I've always assumed that the tranny in the MDX was "based" on the same one in the Ody, which was probably "based" on the RL. So it may very well be an older design. Does anyone know for certain?
Have noticed only two problems so far. The first is that one side of the audio unit is a bit more "out" than the other. Don't know how to take the panel off to reach the screws inside for alignment, so we called the dealer. He told me to send the car in to get it fixed anytime.
The second is a bit of a mystery and we haven't told the dealer about it yet: there is one set of self-sticking black Velcro, 1 sqare inch in size, left stuck on the lower edge of the panel below the steering wheel opposite where the driver's right knee would be. The hook part of the Velcro is on the outside of the panel and the velvet part on the inside. They are just there; serving apparently no purpose. I wonder if they are meant for some part in the car and the dealer forgot to install it as designed, or maybe the dealer stuck them there for a temporary purpose but then forgot to take them off. I will ask the dealer about them, but would be very grateful if anyone here can shed some light on this mystery.
By the way, my dealer seems to have rushed his job: he even forgot to install one side of the sticker sign which indicates the location of the lever for sliding the second row of seat forward.
The same schematics show that the 2001/2002 MDX transmission is identical to the 2003 Pilot transmission.
Basically, what it appears like is that Honda took the older TL/CL 5-speed transmission, changed some smaller items, and gave it "beefier" parts to handle AWD and towing. As such, it's a variant but not a new transmission design.
It _appears_ that the MDX/Pilot transmission are escaping the well-publicized problems that the TL/CL transmissions have had, quite possibly because of the beefed up parts, or some of the smaller differences (e.g. the TL/CL use a different cooler for the transmission than the MDX, and, presumably, the Pilot).
Whether or not the "beef up" just means that the same problems will happen at longer mileage intervals and in lower percentages, I don't think we'll know for a while.
I've seen the schematics of the new 5-speed and it is way different, not just a variant.
To my untrained eye, the '01 Odyssey transmission was more different than the newer TL and 01/02 MDX transmissions (the newer TL and 01/02 MDX transmissions being closer).
I'm picking up my Black EX-L in a few weeks. Can't wait!
Steve
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Many things affect mpg including oxygentated gas, your driving style, weather, traffice conditions and miles. I've been told not to worry about gas mileage until at least 5000 miles - that's how long the engine takes to fully break in.
Keep measuring but wait a while before getting upset.
Honda also changed the gear spacing when they went to the new transmission. It's possible that might help with the relatively tall 5th gear.
I do hear the gas tank sloshing noise from time to time, but it doesn't really bother me. I can tune it out most of the time. I also have the occaisional driver side window flutter/rattling noise. But I can tune that out as well.Plus, when I have music playing (which is most of the time) it drowns out the noises. I don't hear much to any road/tire noise. At least nothing more that I was used to in my accord.
When decelerating, at around 40 - 50 mph I can feel the car slightly lurch, kind of like something is kicking in to slow the car down. I wonder if it is (a problem with) the transmission or the vtm-4 kicking in.
None of the above problems make me regret, even for a moment, my decision to get the pilot. The only decision I regret is not getting leather (although the fabric is very comfortable and not ugly)...and maybe the Nav system. But there's always the next car...
I've got just over 5K now. If I drive all city driving it's still over 16 mpg.
I have had vehicles that the mileage is low until the engine and drivetrain loosen up.
14 mpg sounds like my Mountaineer.
The vehicle lurch at about 40 to 50 is the grade logic feature of the transmission. It's a little unsettling until you get used to it.
My main issue is with the AWD system.
It doesn't apply enough torque to the rear wheels when needed.
There are a number of little things that I'll get fixed at the first service.
I was cross shopping Acura MDX and Toyota Highlander also.
Both companies had dealer inventory searches.
The lists show everything the dealers get.
Most if not all are presold.
I have received an offer of 625 under MSRP. Is that a good deal? I also got one for $200 under. I am in Houston, TX and the dealers seem eager to deal.
These are for any EX models
Any comments one way or the other?
Any comments?
My main concern with fabric is ease of cleaning (or lack thereof). The fern interior is lighter than I thought it would be, and I am concerned about the interior looking old & dingy before its time. My 92 Accord (the car my Pilot replaced) had light tan fabric and looked 10 years old 4 years ago. With leather, all it takes, pretty much, is a quick wipe and it's clean. But if the Pilot leather is only mid-grade leather, I guess I'd be concerned with tears and stuff like that. I wouldn't mind the cool seat in the winter - my garage is heated.
In my case, the dealer didn't have any leather interiors on the lot, so I couldn't really judge what the leather was like. If it's mid-level quality at best, perhaps I made the right choice in fabric.
As for the color Sage Brush Pearl, I'd say that it definitely has some green in it. I thought it would have been greener, but am very happy with the color. Depending on the light and where you are standing, I would describe the color as blue-grey-green-steel-charcoal. I'll try and post a few pictures to my website and will post the address once they're up.
That's the way I described it to me wife. Very comfortable. Also seemed to make the middle, back seat (where the tray is stored) more tolerable.
njpilot1 - I have had a light colored fabric interior for two years. I sprayed a fabric protectant on the cloth within the first week and did it a year later. Occasionally I had what I thought were soda/coffee or grease stains, but cleaned it up quickly with a few sprays of fabric cleaner w/ the plastic brush on top of can. Fabric looks pretty good today.
But, judge for yourself. Good luck!
Wondering if people from the SF south bay area can share their experience with the local Honda dealers in terms of service and maintenance?
Thanks in advance.
Steve
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