What's my classic worth?

wesleygatorwesleygator Member Posts: 2
edited April 2014 in General
Hey ya'll,
I have a 1966 Ford F-100 Custom Cab with it's original V8 352 cc 5.8 liter engine in it along with everything else original. The truck amazingly only has 80,000 original miles on it without the meter rolling over(yes I've checked records to make sure this is accurate). I purchased the truck about 4 months ago and it runs perfect. I purchased it from a widowed lady for 3,000 dollars. The truck has been garaged for the past 15 years and had tune ups ever so often. Something tells me I ripped the old lady off considering the condition it's in. The interior is flawless with no cracks in the dashboard and everything good condition except for a tear in the seat on the drivers side from wear. It has the original hubcaps still on it. Original paint with some scratches of course(come on now! It is 35 years old now!). However it does have a few dents in the hood...but nothing that is overly noticable. That's just about all i can think to tell ya'll about it. I've been told that it's worth a lot more than what we got it for. The reason we got it so cheap with no contest is because we were the only ones that knew about her selling it, she never put it up for sale or anything. Well, if you would please help me with this. Thanks!


  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Sounds like about a #3 condition, so figure around $4,000-$4,500 as a ballpark. To be worth "a lot more" it would have to be in a lot better shape. Old trucks especially are valued mostly on their cosmetics.

    Here's an excellent online price guide where you can verify values and look up the various definitions of condition and the numbering system.


    Hope that helps!

  • kinleykinley Member Posts: 854
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonMember Posts: 20,350
    I'm sure is very nice but a "classic" it is not.

    More like a "Special Interest" car.

    A lot of truck lovers out there and the Custom Cab option makes it more desirable.

    I think Shifty's numbers are probably accurate.
  • wesleygatorwesleygator Member Posts: 2
    no, it's not four wheel drive. It does have three on the tree...I forgot to mention that.
  • fernando4fernando4 Member Posts: 1
    I'am about to purchase a 1978 chevy nova 6 cly. 4dr. automatic with 51K miles, but I don't know how much it's worth. Can anybody help!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Just a nice used car but not destined to be a "classic". As a four-door automatic, it would be the least valuable of the style (but perhaps the best running overall), so I'd guess about $2,000-2,500 should be plenty for a really nice one.
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    Since you know so much about European cars, what do you think these vehicles would be worth:

    1. 1968-76 BMW 2002 (including tii)
    2. 1977-82 BMW 320i
    3. 1975-79 VW Beetle ragtop (the injected models)
    4. 1976 Porsche 912E (a one-year-only model)
    5. 1977-82 Porsche 924
    6. Any Mercedes 200 Series sedan, 1968-73

    And just for the record, how good are these vehicles, in terms of driving style and quality, if I ever wanted to obtain one of them? They look like they're reliable and durable machines.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    I'll give an estimate on these cars, presuming they are a #2 condition, which is a very very nice car but not a flawless show car restoration

    1. 1968-76 BMW 2002 (including tii)

    The Tii is worth the most, and 68-74 2002s are worth more than 75-76 (ugly bumpers, impaired performance due to emissions) So early 2002s, around $3,500-$5,000; later 2002s $2,500-4,500; Tiis $5,000-8,000. The Tii is the most collectible car on your list by far. These cars will appreciate slowly.

    2. 1977-82 BMW 320i--just used cars, no real value beyond transportation. $2,000 and up if you can get it. These cars will not appreciate in value.

    3. 1975-79 VW Beetle ragtop (the injected models)--I'd say $4,000-8,000 should buy all but the very superbly restored cars. These cars will appreciate in value.

    4. 1976 Porsche 912E (a one-year-only model)--least desireable of the 912s because it's the only 912 with a VW engine. $4,500-6,000 and will lag the other 912s in the long run, even though at this time it's worth about the same as the other 912s. Less pedigree if you will. These cars will appreciate slowly in value.

    5. 1977-82 Porsche 924--also very un-collectible and unloved car, maybe $1,500-$4,000 tops. No appreciation in value.

    6. Any Mercedes 200 Series sedan, 1968-73--just used cars, no real value beyond good transportation. Maybe $3,000 for world's best one? No appreciation in value.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    I think in 20 years time tho.. Super nice tiis will really be bringing a bit of cash, but I cant think of very many mainstreamish cars made in the mid-70s that'll ever be worth very much (V12 XKE Roadsters excepted).

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Tiis are fun to drive, certainly the most fun car on your list.

    I'm not sure the Jaguar V12s will ever catch up with the earlier XKEs. They are just too far away from the original idea of the XKE, which was just right. The V12s are too nose heavy and too complex for the purist who really wants to get out and drive his "classic" sportscar.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    Tis why I have an S1 4.2 (I dont care what they say about the 3.8s being more collectible, especially a flat-floor, outside-bonnt-lock roadster, those are not as nice to drive).

    But a '74 S3 OTS in cherry shape is a valuable car...Probably more so than anything else made that year.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    I'm not so fond of that V12 (gas hog, slow) or the big rubber block bumpers. The XKE was meant to bea sports car, not a 560 SL. A S1 4.2 is the perfect combo IMO. My other un-favorite is the SII coupe 2+2.
  • shreddedshoeshreddedshoe Member Posts: 34
    I have a 1958 Cadillac. It's a 4-door, hard top sedan. Power steering and power brakes. 53,000 original miles. The roof was repainted (original factory paint) and there is a cb antennna mounted to the rear fender. The rest of the car is original. Some very minor scratches, a tear in the drivers seat and in the cloth in the header. Body and interior is otherwise excellent. Does need some mechanical work. She has been on and off the road for the past 10 years-no real driving. Needs a new master cylinder and vacuum unit and possibly a new thermostat. Also needs new tires and exhaust. Hoses and gaskets should be replaced. The car is in very excellent condition, but needs some TLC. It was my grandparents' car, they bought it around 1960 or so with about 3,000 miles on it. It's been in the family since and has been garage kept the entire time. Any idea what this may be worth as is?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Hmmm...sounds like about a # 3 car (average).

    If it's a deville hardtop, I'd say $8,500 minus the cost to repair it so it's road worthy.

    If it's just a 62 hardtop, I'd say $7, 500 minus the costs.

    I would recommend getting this car running and on the road or at least RUNNING if you want the most money. Otherwise you are selling a cripple and you may have to go down to $4,000 or so, depending on whether it will at least start up and run for the buyer.

    Looks like the repairs are about $1,500, rough guess there.

    So get it so it starts at least, clean it up, put a very attractive price tag on it and see what happens. If anyone comes and offers you decent real money, I'd take it right away. There is no pot of gold here.
  • shreddedshoeshreddedshoe Member Posts: 34
    Thanks. That's what I thought. I haven't had the time or means to work on it or maintain it properly, so I've been thinking about selling it. Thanks for the info!
  • gungeeygungeey Member Posts: 11
    This is a boatload of money to a blue collar guy like me. And actually, I didn't add the price to get it here (Mass) from Philly.
    I've been eying this model for a few years now,since I lost my '64 Skylark Sport Coupe to engine damage and had no funds for repairs. Anyway, I've been scouting for the past two and a half years rather actively looking at anything to pop up in that sounded clean and solid. For the most part, I came across trunks so wet I could wipe the condensation off the inside with my hand and tuck important papers in the huge tears in the upholstery. These "collectibles" were in the asking range of $7-10K. There have been drier models that still had the bubbling rust cancer ready to peek through the recent paint jobs, and places where a magnet wouldn't stick in the $5K plus range. These seemed to be the norm, but I had decided long ago that the options on the car are less important than the soundness of the frame and sheetmetal.
    Anyway, I put a $2000 deposit on a car I found.
    (Drove 12 hours round trip to see it.)
    1965 Buick Riviera,Super Wildcat 425 2X4 barrel, black vinyl top(I'm not partial to them, but trim codes reveal this as factory option)burgundy mist body, A/C that blows cold. The trunk and interior are in impeccable original condition. There is no replacement for the look only time can give to a true original carpet... although not worn, just screams "I'm old". The odometer reads 31K, although there is no supporting documentation.I tend to believe it to be accurate based upon the brake pedals, and like new condition of drivers seat and steering wheel. Engine compartment is perfect, the current owner says the A/C sometimes works and sometime doesn't but we couldn't replicate the problem, and of course the famous clamshell headlights are not operational, but the motor works when the relay is jumped suggesting a fixable feature. Exterior has a single dimple on some stainless trim and two door dings one big(2 inches round) the other the size of my thumbnail.The bottom line is this vehicle is all pure sheet metal. The hood has what I believe is called checking- small spiderweb like lines in the paint that can be seen from a foot away. The paint is not loose in any way, in other words, cannot be picked off or even caught with the fingernail. The engine idles perfectly, with the doors all the way open, there isn't eve the slightest perception of shake at the outer limits of the tinted windows(manual). It accelerates smoothly and without hesitation. At a stoplight it's as shake free as my 99 Avalon but there's no mistaking this engine is ready to go with that low idle unmistakably, proudly breathing from the dual exhausts. Even the pipes, by the way are relatively rust free.
    Not a squeak in the suspension. Looking out at the front fenders is SO similar to that of a yacht cutting through summer swells in the ocean deep.

    Sounds like I'm in love? You bet!

    Anyway, I'm committed to paying the balance of the car (8 thousand more). I'll not pass this baby up. This is my dream car. However, there is this tiny grumbling in my belly that won't stop.
    Those old car value guides suggest I'm paying too much for this honey. I would call it a -2 condition car.


    What's the market value of this vehicle?
    By the way, this is my first post, but have been a reader here for quite some time and would value your opinion on this.
    Thanks, Steve
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonMember Posts: 20,350
    I do know a bit about them....

    Is it a Gran Sport? It'll have GS badges on it if it is. Most of the ones with the 2-4bbls are GS's but not all. These are worth more.

    No power windows? VERY strange, although some came that way.

    These are fantastic cars that are maybe my all time favorite. Expect 7MPG on high octane gas you can no longer buy...one of the reasons I sold mine. Mine was yellow with a black vinyl roof.

    Be VERY careful of rust under the roof by the rear window.

    And, finally....well...it really sounds like a condition 3 car. I would peg it at a 4000-6000 car but I may not be up to speed with the market.

  • badgerpaulbadgerpaul Member Posts: 219
    When I was a kid, a friends Grandmother would always order her cars with everything on them but power windows. She said in case she drove in to the lake she wanted to be able to roll down the windows to swim out.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    I'm confused here. What car are we talking about? Is is a Wildcat or a Riviera? Wildcats are based on an Electra platform in 1965. Which body style, coupe or convert?
  • gungeeygungeey Member Posts: 11
    It's a Riviera, but not a GS( one of about 350 non GS's with the 2X4 barrel) but the original motor(same motor # and vin #) but I realize not that important to others. Geez, I just wish I could find this car for $5000 in the kind of solid condition I see in this one. SO undisturbed.For lack of a better term, a virgin. Not a wire spliced or drip of oil underneath. Doors still close so nicely. Hell, the Riviera chrome wheels are worth a $1000 if I had to buy them, they're that new.
    There's not even any of that dusty rust powder in any of the crevices. At all.
    Where are these $5000 beauties? The old addage holds true for this car. Current market value is what the current buyer purchases it for. At any rate, I expect this wholesome sweetie to give me and my family six packs of fun for many years to come.
    I guess with my purchase the '65 Riv's will be going up a couple dollars in price now that they include mine in the average.
    By the way, thanks for the input, and I'm sure to post back once this car is on the road after the winter road salts wash away around here!
    P.S. It's going to be a long winter!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonMember Posts: 20,350
    Well, a car is worth what someone wil pay for it, I guess. Whenever I buy something interesting, I keep an eye on the resale. I get bored pretty easy and know that in a couple of years it'll probably be time to move on. I don't want to lose a bunch of money.

    But, this isn't for everyone. You may have found the car of your dreams. That is what matters.

    I wasn't trying to rain on your parade...you DID ask.

    You also asked..." where are the 5000.00 cars"

    Now, THAT is a good question! Just because that's the going price doesn't mean there will be any available to buy.

    That Riviera is, in my opinion, one of the most beautiful cars ever produced. They are nimble and handle fairly well. It will lay a patch of rubber so long you'll pop a tire before they quit spinning! I do wish you well.

    I do have to ask if you have considered where in the world you'll be able to buy the 102 octane gas this car requires? That was my problem when I had mine. I tried octane boosters, retarding the timing etc. I couldn't stand to see my racehorse gelded but I couldn't take the pinging either.
  • gungeeygungeey Member Posts: 11
    Well the owner and I talked about this. He also had a '66 Corvette 427. I'm no Corvette fan but this thing was OUTSTANDING. For that he got gas at a gas Station (AMOCO?) that sold some type of 100 octane.
    Any way, we put a half tank of Sunoco 94 Octane in the Riviera and drove it for 45 minutes without any ping, of course I didn't beat on it but goosed it a few times to hear the secondaries open up and be sure the transmission downshifted properly. IT DID!
    Also, no harm in the fact that I'm paying too much according to book, and no offense taken. I do want to know because I'm an Irish-Scottish blend that hates to think I've spent a dime more than I had to. Like I said I've been searching and have not found close to this at any price, except maybe a few online volo type dealers or should I say "museums" that want well over 20,000 for the car.
    Bottom line is, I love the car and have no regrets in buying it. I'll need an appraisal for insurance soon. Any suggestions (if allowed on this site) in the Massachusetts area?
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    That sounds like a great car. I've had four of the early Rivieras, including a Gran Sport that ran on seven cylinders

    I don't know what values are these days but I could see myself paying $10k for it (if I had $10k and the space to park it). Most of the Rivis I've seen have been treated well so it's not unusual to find them in good shape (here in California) but to find an "unmolested original" as they say in the ads is worth a premium--how much depends on how much you like these cars.

    I'd guess you'll take a beating if you sell it in a few years, especially if you need to sell it quickly--the number of people willing to pay that kind of premium for any '60s Buick must be pretty small. But if it's really got only 31k you shouldn't have to do any major mechanical work (except timing chain/gears and maybe engine and transmission seals) for another 100k so that's worth a few bucks.

    The nailvalve seems really susceptible to pinging. The 401/425 is basically a 1959 engine and won't tolerate low octane as well as even a mid-to-late '60s design. I recurved the advance on the '65 I used as a driver--took some advance out of the distributor so I could run some decent initial advance--and that helped both with power and pinging.

    The clamshells on my car didn't work either when I bought it but they just needed to be lubed. Yours must be an electrical problem but it wouldn't hurt to lube the covers.

    Shifty, Buick called their engines Wildcats. The 401 was the Wildcat 445 (from the torque rating) and the 425 was the Wildcat 465.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonMember Posts: 20,350
    I found my yellow/black '65 Riviera advertised on a bulletin board in a supermarket. The elderly couple lived in Palos Verdes and the Riv had always been garaged. It had I think every option available. trying to remember...delux interior with the real wood panels, AC, power windows and power vent windows, twlight sentinal, AM-FM with reverb, even a rare purse hook and much more. The headlights were, of course, jammed open. I never got around to fixing them but understand there are micro switches etc. They are VERY tochy and difficult to fix. I heard the Buick mechanics hated them.

    **sigh** I wonder what kind of money it would bring now. I sold it in around 1988 for, I think, 4000.00. Just before that, I had the vinyl top replaced at great expense with one using the factory material. A beautiful car!

    GAWD was it fast!
  • gungeeygungeey Member Posts: 11
    but in order to get them to function I had to jump two male spades that were attached to a relay right down near the battery tray. pulled out the headlight switch and jumped two of the three terminals and they opened right up. I don't think it'll be a huge fix.
    These cars were capable of huge amounts of options.
    Twilight sentinel,four note horn,sonomatic or wonderbar radio,guidematic, which was an automatic high beam dimmer,cornering lights,electrocruise.
    I thought the front aluminum brake drums were an option but they were standard. Interestingly, these were 12 inch drums front and rear. Only Cadillac offered over 11" in domestics. At least according to an old Chiltons spec book that I study regularly.
    Also the car I'm buying does have a tilt steering wheel.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    I got my Gran Sport cheap (somewhere in the teens?) but it had a bad jug and it was rings, not just a valve.

    I was all set to pull the engine and have it rebuilt and (excuse me while I go out and kick myself; okay I'm back) I got as far as removing the battery ground before I realized it would take all the money I had for some other projects that might make a few bucks.

    Seemed like a good idea at the time but of course I should have put the money in the Rivi, kept it and gotten rid of the other cars, but that's 20/20 hindsight.

    It was just gorgeous, white over green leather, all kinds of options including real wood. Not mint but obviously fairly low miles and immaculate except for the ring on the console wood from someone's hot coffee cup.

    Even base Rivis with the standard engine are great cars, but one that's loaded and has the big engine is just something else. Excuse me, I need to go kick myself again.

    BTW big Buicks had 12" finned aluminum front drums standard from 1958. As I recall that's the year they went to 14" wheels (or maybe that was '57) and the smaller wheels didn't let much air in to cool the drums. Also the Dynaflow apparently didn't allow much engine braking so fade was a big problem until they went to aluminum.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Okay, so what we have is a '65 Riviera non GS in #3 condition (due to paint checking). Let's say HIGH #3.

    I'd put the value at about $7,500. $10K would be a car with no real visible defects or problems....not quite over the top show car, but a very sharp automobile.
  • gungeeygungeey Member Posts: 11
    I'm too far into this deal to reneg, besides, like I said I've been looking far and wide looking for a Riv with this grade of rust free steel. I wouldn't dare blow the relationship over
    a grand. But it just KILLS me to pay top dollar for anything.
    But the above posts from the one time owners of these Riviera's leads me to believe I am making no mistake with this vehicle. I can almost feel how much they miss their rides!
    To me, the flip side of the coin is that in this situation, it's much different than buying a new or late model car. I can't quite line them up and say to give me this color in a year 2000 with under 24000 miles with leather, etc.
    This car, it's hit or miss. Decide on a budget, and hunt til I'm satisfied. I did and am.
    I/ve watched them get auctioned off on Ebay for about $8K on a semi consistent basis over the past year. There are a couple active auctions on 63-65 Rivs going on now. Last week a 64 was 425 4barrel in lesser condition than mine went for $8100. But who knows with eBay... a friend could easily help one pump up the price, or even make the friend the highest bidder, just to see the sellable price without having to sell the car. Who knows.
    Of course, now I'll see Rivs popping up all over the place for $4300 in better shape than mine with more options and the seafoam green I could die for....LOL
    Thanks again
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    Of course market value is the ultimate reality, but $8-10k seems cheap compared to what else you can get for that kind of money. Can't be that much demand. Weren't they originally supposed to be Cadillacs? Maybe that would have helped demand, maybe not. Put a Chevy badge on it and you'd have to run for cover.
  • gungeeygungeey Member Posts: 11
    I like those chevy's, too. A' 66 Chevelle SS in candy apple red is a charmer. And the price is way out of my league. It's funny, I checked on the CPI value guide,as you probably know, the excellent condition value is supplied unless you subscribe. My interpretation of "excellent" is just a notch below absolutely never driven or seen the light of day.(Hey man, I wanna DRIVE this car!)An '66 Impala SS 2dr Hardtop in excellent cond. has a market value of $11375. SHOW ME WHERE IT'S AT! A '67 Ford Galaxie 500XL Convertible in Excellent condition...key word Excellent... is a whopping $12075. I would snatch it up in a second.
    I guess my point is, somebody must be buying these cars at these prices to get these reports, but I'll be damned if I can spot a value like that. I'd go far as to say I could find these cars in excellent condition, but cars of this caliber to be let go for 11 and 12 thousand? I'd say the guy must have just lost his job or a child needs medical attention in Mexico the day before yesterday!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonMember Posts: 20,350
    Forgot about the four note horn. Mine didn't have that but did have cruise and the auto headlight dimmer. I really liked the power vent windows. Never saw onw with cornering lights...are you sure?

    Please post a photo...No Don't! I'll be kicking my self too!
  • gungeeygungeey Member Posts: 11
    were available on the LeSabre, Wildcat, Electra 225 and the Riviera. That's according to a 1964
    "The Book of New Buicks". This was a sales brochure offered at the dealer for prospective customers like you and I. I use the term "brochure" lightly. It's 11X14 and 64 pages, plus cover and weighs about a pound and a half. I'm in the printing business and this was not cheap to produce. Today's price would be about $15 per copy. Other mentionables include seat belts, of course, remote control mirror, which was an option in '64, not sure about '65, auto trunk release (that works off some type of vacuum system), positraction, of course, rear window defroster. These weren't the electrical devices we have now but actual ductwork that blew warm air from the heater core back to the rear window! By the way, I remember some 50's car that actually had the ductwork exposed with clear plastic windows that ran across the headliner. Almost like one of those-drive in windows at the bank that vacuum the money capsule into the teller. This might of been for A/C, not sure. Other nick-nack stuff on the Riv was tachometer, chrome door guards,tissue dispenser, spotlight(?), purse hook.
    No pics, no digital but 35mm.
    Anyway, one sad day was when I lost my '64 Skylark, but even then, I knew this Riv would someday be mine. Oh, and I checked out a site (ManheimGold)that Mr Rightshift had mentioned on this board and those numbers ease my pain a tad.
    I also for kicks had recently checked out Barrett-J's inventory for this years auction. No 63-65 Riv's
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    It's been a good 15 years since I've owned an old car so I don't know prices, but I do know there's a wide variation in the desirability of Chevies and Fords.

    There's all kinds of engines, transmissions, trim lines, luxury and performance options, and of course the convertibles are in a class by themselves as far as broad appeal.

    You don't find that variation in Rivieras. They're all well outfitted, decent handling powerful cars, some more than others, but no strippers. That makes a big difference in the enjoyment of the car.

    Then there's the original price of the car, new. A loaded '65 Riviera Gran Sport had a list price of around $4700, a loaded '67 Impala SS 427 $4900. I honestly don't know which is worth more now as a low-mileage original, but I'd bet that Impala would sell for twice as much as the Rivi. Is it twice as much car? My guess, based on owning six Impalas and four Rivieras, is that it's half as much car.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    If that Impala were a 425HP it would sell for double, but not if it were the 385.
  • parmparm Member Posts: 724
    Hello. I read through the posts concerning your recent purchase of a '65 Rivi. First of all, let me say congratulations for taking the plunge. I too pine for a classic car as regulars in this forum can attest.

    It seems Rivieras are one of the few cars I've not obsessed about. Not that they're not a sharp car (which they are!), but because my preference is for a convertible.

    I checked the website below (which I visit frequently) to get an idea of asking prices. The range is pretty much what has been discussed in the posts above. Of course, the highest price for a '65 is around $28K or best offer (through a dealer, of course) which would buy what appears to be a very nice GS.

    You should consider starting your own Town Hall discussion string for Rivi's. You might get more participants by owners and wanna be owners.


  • gungeeygungeey Member Posts: 11
    The question of course, is "What's my classic worth". Most would contend my car, under strict definition, is no "Classic" to begin with, and I understand and would even agree. Yet, although it's on no official Top Ten list, when I gaze out the window and see the stance of this 17 and a half foot, 4000 pound hulk of sheet metal sculpture I see a clear representative from the glory days of American automobile building.
    Some of the comments I've been handed since it's arrival:
    "They couldn't build a car like that anymore if they tried".
    "They don't make 'em like that anymore".
    "What is it?"..."It's absolutely gorgeous".
    Most of the guys my age don't seem to recognize the make/model, but the 65-75 year old men know it instantly. I've had conversations with neighbors out walking their dogs that never cared to initiate much of a conversation before.
    All this, and the Riviera's only been out of the garage for a total of two hours. Once when it was delivered, once for a wash and wax before I covered it up til spring. I left the garage door up while it dried, and someone in a 2000/2001 Park Ave (my dad calls them "Q-Tip" cars because of the white furry heads poking up out of the front seats)was pulled over the side of the road in front of the house,enjoying the view of the grill. I gave him a wave. He seemed pleased and in the middle of a fine, fond memory.

    I guess, in hindsight, the extra price I probably paid doesn't matter. I'm not looking at this as a used car purchase. To me, this is a 1st edition Declaration of Independence, or a relatives chest of military gear from his WWII service.
    This is the car that will stir dreams of those that are not used to seeing the offerings of the Big 3 in the mid-sixties. This is the kind of car that'll make them want more. To paraphrase a credit card ad:

    Auto carrier transport from PA to MASS...$450

    Old Car Purchase...$10,000

    '65 Riviera sitting in the driveway...Priceless.

    Parm, there are a number of Riviera sites out there specializing in that vehicle.
  • parmparm Member Posts: 724
    Your stories are great. You can't put a price on piece of mind and genuine satisfaction. Sometimes its better to think with your heart rather than your head.

    Can you let me know your favorite Riviera sites? I'd like to check them out.
  • gungeeygungeey Member Posts: 11
    check your email
  • brycebbryceb Member Posts: 2
    I need to sell a 78 Cadillac Seville for my mother and father. It is an incredibly low-mileage car ( 42,000 miles ) in excellent condition. At 22,000 miles the diesel engine was replaced with a 413 gas engine. At the same time, a new transmission, rear-end, fuel injection system, brakes, shocks and sway bars were placed. About $8,000 was spent at that time. The car is light blue with a vinyl top and blue leather interior.

    I don't have any idea what price to put on the car and would appreciate any help you could give.

    I would also appreciate any advice on how to market the car.


    Bryce Buchanan
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 24,492
    ...the 413 was a Chrysler engine, a big-block offered from 1959 until around 1965 or so. Is it an Olds 403 you're thinking about? The Seville came standard with an Olds gasoline 350 that put out 180 hp. A 403 should be a pretty easy swap, as they're both the same basic block and most of the exterior stuff should bolt right up.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    You could advertise it at $4,995 and I personally would take any real cash in the $3,500-4,500 range, even down to $3,000. In this case the modifications would raise the value, for obvious reasons.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 24,492
    ...I guess this would be one of the few cases where a non-original engine would actually make the car worth more!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    The books call for a $500-1,000 deduct for the diesel engine, and personally I don't think that's enough. I think a diesel Seville would be just about sale-proof.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonMember Posts: 20,350
    C'mon now...do you really think any of those are still running?

    What a shame...those poor people paid a premium to buy one only to spend 8000.00 22,000 miles later!

    Seemed like the thing to do at the time, I guess. Then the oil companies raised the price of diesel to the same as gasoline!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    It was a typical GM quickie, without proper development and R&D. Now don't tell me GM didn't know how to make a proper diesel! What they did was convert a gas engine without strengthening it, just to have an economical car to market during the gas crisis. So rather than develop an entire new diesel engine, they gave us that piece of junk. One more nail in Cadillac's coffin at the time.
  • mminerbimminerbi Member Posts: 88
    I can relate an experience that supports Shiftright's views. I happened to sit next to a GM engineer on a return flight from Europe in 1977. We struck up a pleasant conversation, and I was shocked by what he told me. Too much time has passed for me to remember his exact job title, but it was associated with drivetrains, and he seemed to be very familiar with GM's plans to convert one of its V8s (Olds?) to a diesel. He flat out told me he and some of his associates thought GM was making a big mistake, and that in his view the results were going to be unsatisfactory. GM Powertrain was experiencing so many problems with the engine, then under development, that this engineer and others felt that GM should abandon the notion of converting an existing gasoline engine, and design its new diesel(s) for cars from scratch.

    It surprised me that he confided in me, a stranger, as he did. He further confided that, while in Germany on business, he visited the Mercedes factory (on his own), and ordered a 300 model diesel. He explained that he hated to do it, but he was so impressed with the quality of Mercedes, and particularly its diesels, that he just had to own one. He volunteered that his action involved serious inconveniences - he couldn't drive his Mercedes to work - and career risks.

    Remember that in late summer 1977 GM was on a roll, having successfully introduced downsized versions of its large cars, and about to repeat the drill with its intermediates and compacts, well ahead of its domestic competitors. While its problems with the Chevy Vega were well known by then, consumers could be excused if they considered the Vega an aberation on an otherwise good record for satisfying consumers. Most of the quality problems that would soon tarnish GM's reputation, not only its diesels, but with certain transmissions, the Cadillac 8-6-4 and 4.1 V8s, the X-cars, etc. were not yet known.

    I had no reason to believe that the engineer I sat next to on that flight was not employed by GM.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    I'm sure he was disgraced, tortured and executed. Another unsung hero of the resistance movement.
  • brycebbryceb Member Posts: 2
    I can't be sure about the engine. I will have a mechanic look at it before I write the advertisement. It may turn out to be a 403 as you suspect.

    Thanks, everyone, for your help.
  • timz58timz58 Member Posts: 44
    I recently inherited a totally restored 35 Ford 1 ton flatbed truck. This vehicle has all the correct badging, grill, signal arm, wheels, tires and rebuilt drive train. It has new correct Ford blue paint, all chrome has been redone, all the glass is perfect. The original dump bed still operates. Flaws are some damage around the flatbed rails and the seat is a much modified leather unit from a 1957 Lincoln. I would like some idea of the value of this vehicle for insurance purposes and with an eye for trade/sale for an early 50's Chevy hardtop or convertible. Any help would be appreciated.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Hard to say. The problem is that it isn't a pick up, which would make it considerably more valuable. This is not the type of vehicle one drives around for pleasure. It's more suitable for say a truck museum. Given that a similar pickup in nice shape might bring $10K-12K, I'd say about half of that would be all the money for your truck, around $6,000.....if you could find a buyer. It's not an easy vehicle to sell.

    I think your idea of a trade might be better, although if you want to trade against a Chevy hardtop or convertible you are going to have to kick in money, too.
This discussion has been closed.