I don't think there's a 1979 ANYTHING worth $60k, let alone a Jag that will not ever appreciate and will undoubtedly cost $ in repairs (remember, too low miles are not good either). Yikes, and double yikes (thank you, Scooby-Doo)!!
A couple weeks ago, I asked about the value of a friend's 67 Austin Healey 3000. [post #137, this topic]. The Old Cars Price guide said 4000 for a #5 car, which I knew might be high. You said he might get 4000 if he's patient. Well, he hasn't placed any ads yet, but we both know a local guy who's had his own Mercedes/Porsche/BMW repair shop for years, and who also has owned and restored a bunch of old cars. My friend also has an 84 Mercedes 300D, [200,000 on the body, 80,000 on the engine-everything good on the car] that he also wants to sell. This mechanic friend went and looked at the Mercedes and the Healey, and offered 4000 cash for both cars. My friend is inclined to take it. I must say, selling to somebody who knows exactly what they're getting, without even having the hassle of placing an ad, answering calls, etc, would be attractive to me. Whadya think-should he take the 4000 for both?
No, the 300D should be worth $2,000-$2,500 by itself if...if.... it is decent looking. Mercedes sell on their looks first and foremost. So $4K for both cars wouldn't be quite fair.
However, If the 300D is a shabby car with other needs, well then sure, clear out the two of them. As I said with either of his cars, he isn't sitting on a gold mine here.
Yesterday, I went over and looked at both cars, which I hadn't really ever done. The Healey has really deteriorated since tha last time I looked at it [25 years ago!] and has much worse rust than what I described before. Right behind the drivers' door, on the rear fender, the rust goes clear through, and deep. A big hole. The floors are also rusty-not sure if they're clear through or not. The engine of course is frozen. I mean, the car would need everything. The chrome is good-no rust. As for the Mercedes, only thing wrong is the air conditioning doesn't work. And, he says the heater doesn't work right either? It has all the options, sunroof, etc, and looks good except the paint's a little dull in spots. It is that buttercream color with tan interior that is so common. A good rubout would work wonders, I think. Thing is, I ran the Kelley Blue Book on it, and it comes up with a private party value of $1400, and a dealer's retail of $2650. Big difference in these two values, but it seems like he could get at least close to 2000 for the MB. Why does Kelley say $1400 for private party value$ A local dealer told him $1350 wholesale-so, it does seem like the $4000 for both is a little low. Anyway, he's going to counter with $5000 for both, and see what the guy says. I think this might be close-for cash in the hand, anyway. We'll see. Like you say, these aren't gold mines, and the Healey's just taking up space [no garage] he doesn't have. Thanks for your input. I'll also pass on the info about the guy you told me about.
I mean he can't turn it over right now. It did run last time he parked it-20 years ago. But, I think anyone would want to take it all apart anyhow, just to see where it is in terms of wear, have the head cleaned up, etc. So seized, in this case doesn't mean it just quit, after a major overheat/no oil/abuse, or something like that. No damage, other than sitting for 20 years. To answer your question, I don't know. Seems like if it were seized from damage/abuse, then no, it probably wouldn't run again without major work.
I'll bet the rings have rusted to the cylinder walls. That's the biggest challenge to getting it running without a teardown.
Then there's the other stuff--sludged oil passages, bearing surfaces that haven't seen even a trace of oil since the Ford Administration, shrunken gaskets, gunked up carbs, corroded distributor cap contacts and I've probably missed a few things.
You could start a new thread on what happens to an engine when it sits outside for 20 years.
My friend came by today and said he took the $4000 for both the A-H and the Mercedes. I didn't even have a chance to give him the info I got here for him. Turns out the Mercedes needs a complete brake job. Plus, an electronic heater control circuit board or something that cost him $450 last time it went [ten years ago] now needs replacing again. So neither the heater ar AC are working. So I guess if you add up the cost of fixing these things to the Mercedes,plus the fact that the AH was rustier than I first thought, and would need a total ground up disassembly, it isn't as bad as it sounds. Oh, he probably could have got more. But, you know, selling a car, especially ones like these, around here anyway, can be a pain. And cash on the barrel like that, when the Mercedes looks to need $1000 in work, anyway [my guess?] was hard to passup, I guess. Don't think I would have closed the deal quite so soon-and on Friday the 13th? So, anyway, that's the deal. Thanks again Shifty for your input.
Well I didn't see the Benz but I can tell you mine sounds much nicer, and everything works, and it is spotless, and I couldn't get more than $2,000 for it I bet.
As for the Healey, with that kind of rust, for $4,000 the man who bought it will go to his grave before he ever sees a profit. You can buy a very nice 3000 for $25,000, so do the math.
This mechanic who bought the cars is the one who's maintained and serviced this Benz for the last ten years, so he knows what he's getting. Guess he figures ti fix it a little and turn it over? I don't know. I always see several used German cars on his lot. As for the Healey, I don't know. Anyway, sounds like $4000 cash was a good deal overall.
...sometimes it's a lot smarter to take an immediate cash offer than to deal with a bunch of tire kickers, in the (often failed) hopes of getting more actual money, especially to get rid of TWO old cars.
A neighbor recently purchased a '67 Chrysler 300 convertible (1594 produced). It's in decent overall condition, white with black interior. It has some cool options: split bench seat with optional headrests and passenger recline, power windows, tilt wheel, cornering lamps, from what I can see. Interior is excellent. It has had some inferior body work done to it, one side is a bit wavy, and the repaint is so-so as well, a bit thick. I think it's missing a bit of trim on the side. The top is in good condition. I guess I'd call the car #3 condition, it's a classic 20-footer. What do you think it's worth?
1969 TR6 - "built in the 1st 1/2 of the 1st year." 30,000 original miles. Why so low? In 1982 "a kid" stuck a big ol' stereo in it and managed to burn up the dash and gauges.
The current owner made a new dash and replaced the gauges and wiring. It's red w/ black interior and needs painting "again" since the color is fading.
The brakes and suspension have been replaced/maintained and a new water pump went in tonight. Good rubber. Usual wind through the gaps, etc. w/ top up.
There's some rust bubbles on the lower rocker panels (ergo the paint recommendation?). No idea how deep it goes, but Boise has a nice dry climate that could delay the rot. Owner mentions that the electrical system is the maintenance item that most often "needs attention."
I'm looking for a semi-daily driver toy that would get driven maybe 5,000 miles a year, and I'm willing to learn to turn a wrench for simple stuff like I do with my lawnmower, but I'm not especially talented that way. Getting stranded now and then is ok too, but I don't want to dump more than ~$1,000 a year into maintenance if I can avoid it.
Should I just get a Miata? What's a fair price? Thanks! Steve Host SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Steve it's a beater, I wouldn't touch it because you'll never recoup any of your money. Wait around and buy a decent one if you like 'em. Miatas are fun but pretty low on character--they don't sound good and there are a gazillion of them. But hey, top down is top down and Miatas don't break very often.
ghulet -- the car sounds like a #4, not a #3. A 3 wouldn't have parts missing and sloppy paint and bodywork.
I'd guess around $5,000 would be enough for a car like this, give or take 10%. Deduct for any mechanical needs not mentioned (or not noticed by the buyer).
lol, I've never recouped any money on any car yet - that's not really possible is it?
The TR is a drop-in-the-lap job; belongs to a friend of a friend. So there's no brand loyalty involved (I'm ok with anything from a Karman Ghia to a baby bumper MG). I'm half looking, but not to the point of visiting any car lots. What I really want is for someone to say "buy this, it's a creampuff, and it's only 4 grand."
Thanks Joe! Steve Host SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Never buy a ratty TR6 under any circumstances. They should all be junked so that good ones can remain on the road. A shabby TR6 is not only a money pit, it will be a frustrating car to own.
...he paid $3000, which sounded better than reasonable to me. I know Chryslers aren't too desirable, but this one is at least somewhat rare and interesting.
Isell---there is an auto archive function that will select old topics that no one has posted in and archive them. If there are any you want re-activated, let me know!
I am looking at a 71 dodge dart for a project car. It needs a couple body panels replaced but is otherwise very solid. What is a ballpark value for something like this. Thanks for the advice.
Well, wishnhigh, being a friend of the family and all, I could let you have that baby for, oh, about $,4K-$5K. It's a nice car now, not shabby but you get close and you'll see little things that need attention. "Course, you want that purty l'il '63 over there, that's in really nice shape, that's gonna cost you closer to $9,000.
But let's not worry about the final price. You just tell Shiftright what you want to pay each month. You got a job? You own furniture? You could drive out of here tonight, young man.
Is the 63 really worth more? I thought the rarity of the 65 made it worth more. 1965 and 1971 are really the only distinctive rivieras, IMO. The 1965 hid the headlights behind the clamshells, and got rid of the tacky trim pieces. The 1971 had that famous split window boat tail.
The 1963 model, while the first year of production, was nearly identical to the 1964 model.
Not that Im refuting what you say, it just blows me away that the 63 is worth more than the 65.
At Carlisle on Saturday, I saw one of these for sale, decked out exactly how I'd want one. 455 V-8 engine, baby blue exterior, white interior with a split bench seat (must've been pretty rare for then). I think it was a power seat, too. Also had power windows.
The body looked pretty good, except for a poorly aligned trunk lid that looked like it was open, even when fully latched. I can't remember the mileage though.
They wanted $7995 for it. I'm sure that's overpriced (I mean c'mon, this IS Carlisle!), but what would a typical one of these run for? I've looked at them on the web, and most of them only had 350's by that time, what with the high fuel prices and all, so would the 455 command much of a price premium in something like this?
I've owned two '65 Rivieras and happen to think the 63-65 Rivs are one of the best cars ever made.
From what I've seen, I don't think the years of these matter much in terms of value.
I think I lean toward the '64's the most. That was the only year that had the 425/340HP engine as standard equipment. TThey also didn't have the miserable non functioning headlights that plagued the '65's. these sure looked good but seldom worked.
If you buy one, be sure to set aside a huge portion of your paycheck for gasoline!
Early Rivieras might be the only '60s full-size cars that drive as good as they look. They're not sportscars by any means, but they're driver's cars as long as they're not clapped out.
Part of it might be visual--the hood is long and low and slopes down in front, the fenders are sharply peaked and the effect adds to the driver's sensation of speed. They're narrow too, which gives the car a close-coupled feel.
Ah, let me clarify my two cents on early Rivieras.
I don't think the 63-64s are worth more PER SE, but, if you find a '63-64 in really top shape, I think they can pull more on the top end than a '65 can. Does that make more sense?
First year models have a certain pull to them. I mean, why else would anyone pay such prices for a '53 Corvette?
Another slant on it--if you wanted to round out a 4-5 car Riviera collection, you'd have to have a '63.
As for the '75 Le Sabre, it wouldn't be over priced if it was very sharp and well done. It would be HIGH RETAIL, but not overpriced I don't think.
Again, cars like that '75 have very wide price ranges. You get very good money for the best, and very little "for the rest".
That's because they are not so rare and don't have a high demand factor, so buyers, such as they are, can be very fussy.
'75 Buicks are a buyer's market, Hemi Cudas a seller's market.
So you have to look at car pricing in that way as well. What's the demand for this car? What's the price spread look like from #2 to #3 to #4?
I always thought a 70's GM convertible properly "fixed" could be a decent runner.
Wouldn't one that had all the pollution control removed, and basically retrograded to about 1970 technology be a more pleasant car to own, rather than one all stock? Does that effect the price at all?
Pollution control, the drop in compression, etc. makes a 75 less attractive to me than a 65 Buick convertible. My uncle did that to his 77 Delta 88 with the 403, and it ran much much better.
I don't think it will affect value very much one way or the other. Nothing made in 1975 in America is going into the big bucks category anyway so might as well try and make real cars out of them.
Now if you did a nice street rod/custom on a '75 convertible, you might get more money for it, but that would be a substantial effort.
How many engines would you need? Let's see, one in front, one in the trunk and one in the back seat. That should get most '75 full-sizers moving fairly well.
...that turn me on the most are the '72 Impala and the '75 LeSabre. For some reason, those two years seemed to get it just "right" with the styling. Even those bulky bumpers look good (to me, at least) on the LeSabre.
A '72 Impala 'vert would probably be a better car, I'm guessing. They're smaller (about 2.5" in wheelbase, maybe 5-6" overall...not that that would make much difference with a car that big!). Also, the '72 would be a bit lighter, have less emissions crap, and stronger engines.
I did drive a '75 LeSabre 4-door sedan once. It had a 350. Actually, it didn't feel that bad. Hardly a roadburner, but it wouldn't hold up traffic, either. I was thinking about buying it as a beater, right after I had gotten my '69 Dart all fixed up. Only problem was, they wanted more for this "beater" than I'd paid for my Dart, the "nice" car!
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Well, he hasn't placed any ads yet, but we both know a local guy who's had his own Mercedes/Porsche/BMW repair shop for years, and who also has owned and restored a bunch of old cars. My friend also has an 84 Mercedes 300D, [200,000 on the body, 80,000 on the engine-everything good on the car] that he also wants to sell.
This mechanic friend went and looked at the Mercedes and the Healey, and offered 4000 cash for both cars. My friend is inclined to take it. I must say, selling to somebody who knows exactly what they're getting, without even having the hassle of placing an ad, answering calls, etc, would be attractive to me.
Whadya think-should he take the 4000 for both?
However, If the 300D is a shabby car with other needs, well then sure, clear out the two of them. As I said with either of his cars, he isn't sitting on a gold mine here.
The Healey has really deteriorated since tha last time I looked at it [25 years ago!] and has much worse rust than what I described before. Right behind the drivers' door, on the rear fender, the rust goes clear through, and deep. A big hole. The floors are also rusty-not sure if they're clear through or not. The engine of course is frozen. I mean, the car would need everything. The chrome is good-no rust.
As for the Mercedes, only thing wrong is the air conditioning doesn't work. And, he says the heater doesn't work right either? It has all the options, sunroof, etc, and looks good except the paint's a little dull in spots. It is that buttercream color with tan interior that is so common. A good rubout would work wonders, I think. Thing is, I ran the Kelley Blue Book on it, and it comes up with a private party value of $1400, and a dealer's retail of $2650. Big difference in these two values, but it seems like he could get at least close to 2000 for the MB. Why does Kelley say $1400 for private party value$ A local dealer told him $1350 wholesale-so, it does seem like the $4000 for both is a little low. Anyway, he's going to counter with $5000 for both, and see what the guy says. I think this might be close-for cash in the hand, anyway. We'll see. Like you say, these aren't gold mines, and the Healey's just taking up space [no garage] he doesn't have.
Thanks for your input. I'll also pass on the info about the guy you told me about.
To answer your question, I don't know. Seems like if it were seized from damage/abuse, then no, it probably wouldn't run again without major work.
Then there's the other stuff--sludged oil passages, bearing surfaces that haven't seen even a trace of oil since the Ford Administration, shrunken gaskets, gunked up carbs, corroded distributor cap contacts and I've probably missed a few things.
You could start a new thread on what happens to an engine when it sits outside for 20 years.
I've seen a full detailing and the offer of installments add thousands of dollars to the value of a car.
Turns out the Mercedes needs a complete brake job. Plus, an electronic heater control circuit board or something that cost him $450 last time it went [ten years ago] now needs replacing again. So neither the heater ar AC are working. So I guess if you add up the cost of fixing these things to the Mercedes,plus the fact that the AH was rustier than I first thought, and would need a total ground up disassembly, it isn't as bad as it sounds. Oh, he probably could have got more. But, you know, selling a car, especially ones like these, around here anyway, can be a pain. And cash on the barrel like that, when the Mercedes looks to need $1000 in work, anyway [my guess?] was hard to passup, I guess.
Don't think I would have closed the deal quite so soon-and on Friday the 13th?
So, anyway, that's the deal.
Thanks again Shifty for your input.
As for the Healey, with that kind of rust, for $4,000 the man who bought it will go to his grave before he ever sees a profit. You can buy a very nice 3000 for $25,000, so do the math.
As for the Healey, I don't know.
Anyway, sounds like $4000 cash was a good deal overall.
A neighbor recently purchased a '67 Chrysler 300 convertible (1594 produced). It's in decent overall condition, white with black interior. It has some cool options: split bench seat with optional headrests and passenger recline, power windows, tilt wheel, cornering lamps, from what I can see. Interior is excellent. It has had some inferior body work done to it, one side is a bit wavy, and the repaint is so-so as well, a bit thick. I think it's missing a bit of trim on the side. The top is in good condition. I guess I'd call the car #3 condition, it's a classic 20-footer. What do you think it's worth?
The current owner made a new dash and replaced the gauges and wiring. It's red w/ black interior and needs painting "again" since the color is fading.
The brakes and suspension have been replaced/maintained and a new water pump went in tonight. Good rubber. Usual wind through the gaps, etc. w/ top up.
There's some rust bubbles on the lower rocker panels (ergo the paint recommendation?). No idea how deep it goes, but Boise has a nice dry climate that could delay the rot. Owner mentions that the electrical system is the maintenance item that most often "needs attention."
I'm looking for a semi-daily driver toy that would get driven maybe 5,000 miles a year, and I'm willing to learn to turn a wrench for simple stuff like I do with my lawnmower, but I'm not especially talented that way. Getting stranded now and then is ok too, but I don't want to dump more than ~$1,000 a year into maintenance if I can avoid it.
Should I just get a Miata? What's a fair price? Thanks!
Steve
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ghulet -- the car sounds like a #4, not a #3. A 3 wouldn't have parts missing and sloppy paint and bodywork.
I'd guess around $5,000 would be enough for a car like this, give or take 10%. Deduct for any mechanical needs not mentioned (or not noticed by the buyer).
The TR is a drop-in-the-lap job; belongs to a friend of a friend. So there's no brand loyalty involved (I'm ok with anything from a Karman Ghia to a baby bumper MG). I'm half looking, but not to the point of visiting any car lots. What I really want is for someone to say "buy this, it's a creampuff, and it's only 4 grand."
Thanks Joe!
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Lack of posts?
Then the old Nash seats could be made into a bed.
Must have been great on dates!
Shifty
Thanks,
jrosasmc
This site might help, but be sure to read what the different 'conditions" really mean.
www.manheimgold.com
But let's not worry about the final price. You just tell Shiftright what you want to pay each month. You got a job? You own furniture? You could drive out of here tonight, young man.
The 1963 model, while the first year of production, was nearly identical to the 1964 model.
Not that Im refuting what you say, it just blows me away that the 63 is worth more than the 65.
The body looked pretty good, except for a poorly aligned trunk lid that looked like it was open, even when fully latched. I can't remember the mileage though.
They wanted $7995 for it. I'm sure that's overpriced (I mean c'mon, this IS Carlisle!), but what would a typical one of these run for? I've looked at them on the web, and most of them only had 350's by that time, what with the high fuel prices and all, so would the 455 command much of a price premium in something like this?
From what I've seen, I don't think the years of these matter much in terms of value.
I think I lean toward the '64's the most. That was the only year that had the 425/340HP engine as standard equipment. TThey also didn't have the miserable non functioning headlights that plagued the '65's. these sure looked good but seldom worked.
If you buy one, be sure to set aside a huge portion of your paycheck for gasoline!
Part of it might be visual--the hood is long and low and slopes down in front, the fenders are sharply peaked and the effect adds to the driver's sensation of speed. They're narrow too, which gives the car a close-coupled feel.
I don't think the 63-64s are worth more PER SE, but, if you find a '63-64 in really top shape, I think they can pull more on the top end than a '65 can. Does that make more sense?
First year models have a certain pull to them. I mean, why else would anyone pay such prices for a '53 Corvette?
Another slant on it--if you wanted to round out a 4-5 car Riviera collection, you'd have to have a '63.
As for the '75 Le Sabre, it wouldn't be over priced if it was very sharp and well done. It would be HIGH RETAIL, but not overpriced I don't think.
Again, cars like that '75 have very wide price ranges. You get very good money for the best, and very little "for the rest".
That's because they are not so rare and don't have a high demand factor, so buyers, such as they are, can be very fussy.
'75 Buicks are a buyer's market, Hemi Cudas a seller's market.
So you have to look at car pricing in that way as well. What's the demand for this car? What's the price spread look like from #2 to #3 to #4?
Wouldn't one that had all the pollution control removed, and basically retrograded to about 1970 technology be a more pleasant car to own, rather than one all stock? Does that effect the price at all?
Pollution control, the drop in compression, etc. makes a 75 less attractive to me than a 65 Buick convertible. My uncle did that to his 77 Delta 88 with the 403, and it ran much much better.
Not Buick's finest hour.
Still, nice cruisers that looked decent.
Now if you did a nice street rod/custom on a '75 convertible, you might get more money for it, but that would be a substantial effort.
A '72 Impala 'vert would probably be a better car, I'm guessing. They're smaller (about 2.5" in wheelbase, maybe 5-6" overall...not that that would make much difference with a car that big!). Also, the '72 would be a bit lighter, have less emissions crap, and stronger engines.
I did drive a '75 LeSabre 4-door sedan once. It had a 350. Actually, it didn't feel that bad. Hardly a roadburner, but it wouldn't hold up traffic, either. I was thinking about buying it as a beater, right after I had gotten my '69 Dart all fixed up. Only problem was, they wanted more for this "beater" than I'd paid for my Dart, the "nice" car!
Without very strong documentation one can't really determine value.
If it were a real car with superb, iron-clad documents, I'd guess $90,000 or so.
Seriously? I'm trying to get a visual and it's not happening!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.