Saturn ION

teo

Does anyone has any pictures, info or other details regarding the '03 Saturn ION sedan that will replace the current aging Saturn S series cars sometime later this year?

csandste

http://pc99.detnews.com/autosinsider/sneakpeek/index.hbs?myrec=10

dindak

That's the only picture I've seen so far. I'm sure you will see something at one of the auto shows this winter. Many people (especially current Saturn owners) are really waiting and wanting to see it.

tomekk

I think it is the same platform:

http://www.spiegel.de/auto/news/0,1518,174904,00.html

(it is the 3rd picture in this article)

Tomek

ehaase

The Vectra uses GM's new mid size Epsilon platform, while the Saturn Ion uses GM's new compact Delta platform.

That picture of the Vectra may give a hint regarding the 2004 Chevrolet Malibu or 2005 Saturn S series, which will also use the Epsilon platform.

dindak

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the styling cues on that Vectra make it to the ION. Seems to me, Saturn is borrowing a lot from it's European division for it's cars which is not a bad thing so long as they are well adapted to North American tastes. The L-series is nice, but too narrow and bland for my tastes which is why I bought an Intrigue instead.

tomekk

Thanks for the clarification.
So, which platform is bigger?
Is Ion FWD?
And what platform is the Cadillac CTS based on?

This platform sharing thing gets awfully confusing... you have to watch out now so you don't buy Ford Mondeo (about $20K in Europe) disguised as $44K AWD Jaguar with loosely attached exhaust system (vide Edmunds Jaguar X-type test).

Tomek

hpulley4

Both delta and epsilon platforms will be FWD. There is a new RWD platform coming out too for new caddies, etc. Can't remember the RWD platform's name though.

The Ion will supposedly be built on the smaller epsilon platform, along with the new Astra; Cavalier was supposed to be too but now I've heard rumours ranging from "won't be built on that platform" to "will simply be a re-badged Astra".

The 2005 Saturn L-series (new 3-letter name, perhaps?) will supposedly be built on the new Epsilon platform, along with the Vectra and perhaps Grand Am, Malibu, Alero, Saab 9-3 and/or 9-5, etc.

You're right about watching the global platforms as you'll probably be able to buy a 20K Chev or Saturn or a 40K Saab with essentially the same chassis. But this is already essentially true today with the Saturn L and Saab 9-5 and most would say there is quite a difference so hopefully GM won't reproduce the 80's carbon copy Chev/Pontiac/Olds/Buick lineup.

Deltas and epsilons will mostly have NA and SC/TC versions of the 1.8, 2.0, 2.2L and other versions of the ECOTEC. I have an 2.2L 9.5:1 ECOTEC in my LW200 and find it to be very nice. Owners of 2002 Alero, Cavalier and Sunfire owners are also raving about their slightly more powerful 2.2L 10.0:1 engines, being very smooth with twin-balance shafts, but having a nice wide flat high-torque band.

My small commuter car is getting long in the tooth so I hope that one of the delta cars will be good by the time my current commuter dies. I like poly panels so if the ION is decent, I'll get one. I hope there is a hatch or small wagon version somewhere in the line (GM card makes it likely I'll stick with this company). I would take a hatch or small wagon over poly panels but Saturn is the only GM division with wagons at the moment so hopefully I can get both.

logic1

The Cadillac rwd platform is called sigma.

Toyota and Honda have been sharing platforms between luxo and mainstream autos in the Us since the mid-80s. VW has been doing the same in Europe for years. Ford is doing the same with Jaguar and Volvo. It is the wave of the future, the consumer's concern should be with execution.

There are rumors the ION will have a hatch version. I have sent an e-mail to Saturn telling them I thought it is a good idea. If you are interested, you should e-mail them as well. Saturn tends to pay attention to the consumers.

hpulley4

Logic, what is the email address you've used to send suggestions to Saturn?

tomcat630

Maybe the new L-Series can be called the "Lion"?

hpulley4

That's a good one, Tomcat!

I hope I don't need a new L sized vehicle until 2011 but we'll see.

dindak

I like them! VUE and ION are much more appropriate than L/S-series.

I wonder if they really are going to do all 3 letter names?

vocus

What would they name the L Series if they did all 3 letter names?

logic1

I do not have it with me, but you can access through the website at Saturnbp.com. I will try to remember to get it off my home computer tonight.

tomcat630

I think the name "L-Series" has hurt it. First it was called "LS" at the same time as a new Lincoln LS. Thus, it was seen as the same as an SL series car. It needs a real name pronto!

Dumping single letters makes them more in line with the mainstream Asians, with names for their cars. Save the alphabet soup for luxury brands.

dindak

I like names not letters. LS-100/200/300 makes it sounds like a luxury brand which it's not.

afk_x

"I think people get upset when deep down they know one may be right but it really bothers them and they cant come to terms with it"

I don't know what Dr. Phil would say, but with any vehicle a huge amount of what you do and don't like is subjective.

Why the automotive press seems to hate the ION so much is beyond me. I can tell you this from dealing with the general public.

1. People think the ION is attractive. Every time I take one out for a test drive it gets looks, people are checking it out. This never used to happen with the S series.

2. People like the power of the ION. Most people don't give a squat about 0-60 times. They want to be able to merge and pass with ease. The ION may not be a 1/4 mile screamer but its power delivery is very smooth and brisk across the rpm range. Even with a couple passengers and the AC on you're not going to have any trouble making that 50-70 passing manuver on a 2 lane highway.

3. The interior is a little more polorizing than the exterior but assuming you have an open mind the center IP is VERY easy to get used to.

4. This is one quiet compact. Its right up there with the best in class (Jetta and Corolla) for low levels of noise. Both the Focus and the Protege are much much louder when cruising at 70 MPH.

5. The handling at low speeds people absolutely LOVE. The ION has a very small turning radius and is extremely easy to manuver in a parking lot.

Personally I think the ION could have been much better, but for the money I don't see how you can possibly beat it.

Consider you can get an ION2 with CD and power everything for 13,900 after rebate. However you look at it this is an amazing value.

I personally do not get upset when people disagree with me. Most likely they are ignorant. I am amused by the arm chair critics who think they know a lot only because they have read one or two reviews and know someone elses opinion.

dindak

I read in the paper that only a sedan will be available in the fall. Coupe and hatch back won't come until 2003. Any know if this is true?

hpulley4

What paper?

I heard something about other models not coming 'til later but just unsupported rumours. Now I have to decide if I just want to test drive this year's hatches (Matrix/Vibe, Aerio and the others already out) or if I want to wait and compare the ION next year.

Oh well, my trusty '95 Geo Metro got me through the snow again this morning so unless I can find someone willing to offer me a decent amout for it, I may just drive it until it dies which probably won't be until after next year anyways... heck, it could last another few years. It is getting kind of uncomfortable with the seats and shocks warn out, but it seems silly to replace it when it still does its main job of A-B quite well.

vocus

Don't bet on getting much for that Metro. Those cars don't hold their value well at all. If yours is showing wear in the seats and feeling it in the shocks, you might get like $1000 or less for it, if that.

hpulley4

it isn't worth much, probably worth just laughs as a trade-in unless I drive to Buffalo where they show those funny Gambino Ford ads, "tow it in, drag it in, whatever your trade-in is, we'll give you $XXX for it!!!"

Oh well, for fun I could turn it into an under 1500cc rally-car or something as I know they race Swift GT's there (with double the hp). If we had an autocross/solo course around here I'd love to drive it on one. Then I could justify getting a new car as the rally mods would probably make it road-illegal...

dindak

Love Gambino Ford ads. Very funny!

Vibe is looking pretty good and I don't think the ION will be out until September. Our lease is up in July so unless it looks spectacular I don't think we can wait. Still going back and forth between a SUV and a car and Vibe. So many choice these days.

hpulley4

Go to www.saturnfans.com/forums to see pics of the SKY roadster and the 2003 L-series reskin. The SKY isn't awful but for the nose, but what have they done to the L series? Ewwww... If the ION resembles the reskinned L in any way then there is no reason at all for me to wait. The Vibe's styling is different but in a nice way compared to these beasts.

dindak

ION will be unveiled at the New York Auto Show next month. No details from Saturn/GM till then.

logic1

For those of you who were worried, saturnfans.com links an article today that says the Ion will not resemble the Saturn L. The most marked difference stated in the article is that it will have a center console, a la the Toyota Echo. I did not see where it will offer a heads-up display option. Doubtful given the cost of the Ion.

Apparently the interior will be larger and the safety ratings should improve. Given that Ion will have the ecotech engine, reliability should also make a huge jump forward.

I am looking forward to the March debut.

tomcat630

I can't wait to see it, it's been way overdue!

The SL's styling is nearly 6 years old, and the platform is 12!

logic1

Yeah, I am pretty curious. So far Edmunds does not have a NY autoshow link up. I really hope the Delta platform lives up to its advance reviews.

dindak

There is a piece at saturnfans.com on what to expect next month. Sounds good!

tomcat630

4 and a half weeks till the NY show opens.

dindak

Posted at Saturnfans

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php3?threadid=8013

Looks pretty good!

hpulley4

I hope that marshmallow steering wheel is just a temporary pre-release stand-in. I'll have to try the centre mounted instruments to see if I like them but overall, I'm fairly well impressed with it.

dindak

Unfortunately there is no sedan pictures yet, just the quad coupe.

The steering wheel is kind of silly looking, but otherwise the dash and the car look great!

teo

The car looks very nice. But the interior quality at least for what I can see appears to be marred by cheap plastics. I am not a fan of the Toyota Echo styled dashboard as I hate the vast empty dash space left in front of the steering wheel. Those center stacked instruments take some getting used to in that location. The steering wheel is aweful, looks like a squashed marshmellow.

I truly and sincerely hope the interior of this car looks and feels better in person.

The exterior is clean and nice, nothing too special about it. It does look better than the non descript Saturn SL sedan/coupe it replaces.

I hope the sedan looks better in terms of interior, oh and that aweful steering wheel!

The more I look at the ION, the more I like the 2004 Chevy Malibu/Vectra. That car has some GERMAN class!!!

machiavelli

Where are you seeing the picture? When I follow the link posted in #30, I don't get any Saturn pictures? Help

vocus

I rented an Echo the other day when my car was in the shop, and I have to admit I kept looking in front of the wheel to see the gauges and they were not there. It wasn't any further out of my way to see the center pod, just a little weird at first.

vocus

The pic of that steering wheel reminds me of the steering wheels they use on the go-carts at the fair. That's the same thing with the L Series, a big ugly steering wheel. Yuck, I hope they change it before the car goes on sale!

hpulley4

I think my LW200's wheel is fine. I like where the cruise-control buttons are located, as opposed to the ones in those ION pictures, or the strange lever on the back of the Vibe's wheel.

I might prefer a 4-spoke wheel like the one in my Metro but the 2-spoke wheel isn't that bad.

dindak

There are links to scanned in pictures in the posts below. They aren't great pictures, but they are the best I've seen so far.

The wheel is the only bad spot I see so far. The exterior of the car is a big improvement and I really like it. Hopefully the sedan will be just as attractive.

lngtonge18

Didn't Saturn learn anything from the uproar over the Echo's terrible interior design? What were they thinking? I give them credit for at least offering a full instrument display, but that center location just has to go! The rest of the center console design looks like a huge improvement. The interior would have looked nice if the stupid gauges were directly in front of me where they should be. I don't want to have to turn my head to the side to watch my tachometer. It's much easier and more natural to glance down. Oh, and I agree the steering wheel looks plain goofy. The exterior is reasonably nice, if bland and nondescript. I don't like the quad door C pillar styling though. That extra cut line at the back of the rear side window really breaks up the smooth flow of the lines and makes it look stupid. It would look so much better and more natural if the window ended with the curve of the pillar. In fact, just axe the quad door completely. If you need easy entry and exit, get the sedan. Those rear doors make the back seat more cramped feeling due to losses in shoulder and thigh room. Overall, the Ion coupe was a disappointment for me. Nothing really stands out on the car and there are too many turn-offs in its styling cues to make it a worthwhile buy. Saturn had a chance to jump to the front of the pack, but instead, they decided to simply catch up to the back of the pack. Hopefully, the sedan looks better, but that interior would keep me from buying it regardless.

dindak

The steering wheel is my big beef, but that may be changed.

The center gauges are ok with me. I think you would just get used to them after a while.

Looking forward to seeing the sedan this week. Anyone know which day the ION is being introduced?

teo

Actually I am looking forward to the Chevy Astra (Cavalier replacement). I suspect it will look even better than the Saturn ION.

Saturn looks just don't impress me.

hpulley4

So this Friday.

BTW, the Chevy Astra thing is off. Opel decided to go with the Fiat platform instead of Delta so I think it may be more of Chevy ION. Just rumours of course...

dindak

teo : don't like Saturn looks? shocker coming from you! ;-)

hpulley : Good Friday?

hpulley4

I agree, Good Friday would have been kind of strange. Go to http://www.2003saturnion.com/ and it now says March 27th.

orangelebaron

There is NO way I would drive a car with a steering wheel like that. Other than that what I have seen does not impress me either.

tazereli

Is it me or should there be Staypufft markings on that steering wheel?

nwng

it is really too bad the material used in the center console is still "Tonka grade" and in same color but different shades. I always wonder how much more it would cost to manufacture a dash/console with a material one level higher than the "Tonka grade" seen in so many cars.

regfootball

enough so the GM exec's won't get their stock bonuses I'm guessing.

dindak

Small picture one auto.com

http://www.auto.com/

machiavelli

Looks pretty nice! When I go to the http://www.2003saturnion.com site, it says pictures will be available on 3/27, but none are yet? It's about 9:20am EST 3/37/02 and no pictures yet?