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Minivans - Domestic or Foreign



  • irgirg Posts: 197
    None, just the base XLE at $26,614. Leased it at $359/month, $0 down, and that includes the taxes for NY state. The option packages can add up quickly on the XLE. But it comes pretty well equipped for what I wanted. I didn't need or want a sunroof, leather, dvd, so for me, the base was adequate. I got it at FItzmall, anf found this particular van on their website. I hemmed and hawed about whether to get it, and decided I better take the plunge. My sales guy was great, and after I signed all the papers, he told me then (and not before, like some do to pressure you into buying it) that just that day, someone else wanted it, because it was very hard to find just a base model.
  • 1997montez341997montez34 NJ, USAPosts: 202
    Do you get a power tailgate on the base XLE?
  • irgirg Posts: 197
    Yes, and both side doors are power too, can't get that on any of the LE versions. Alloys, fog lights, storage console in the middle, 10 speaker cd JBL sound system are all standard too on the base XLE. I considered a Honda Odyssey EX cloth, but the cost to lease was a lot more.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Edmunds long term test Sienna with 5 speed AT is NOT getting gas mileage as good as did the Grand Caravan ES pushrod OHV 3.8L V6 with an old fashioned 4 speed AT. :cry:
    The Edmunds 2005 Odyssey with 5 speed AT is also NOT getting gas mileage as good as did the 1999 Odyssey with a 4 speed AT. :blush:
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    Edmunds long term test Sienna with 5 speed AT is NOT getting gas mileage as good as did the Grand Caravan ES pushrod 3.8L V6 with an old fashioned 4 speed AT.
    The Edmunds 2005 Odyssey with 5 speed AT is also NOT getting gas mileage as good as did the 1999 Odyssey with a 4 speed AT.

    Enough said about all that high tech, against that old stuff Chrysler puts out. Cheer up Honda, you still beat the Chrysler in the quarter mile with that high tech engine and tranny. It might have been less than a second, but you did it.
  • daedae Posts: 143
    It might have been less than a second, but you did it.

    A very noticable second as most people, even minivan haters, notice. DC vans feel like a rental KIA after a BMW. Look that way too.

    You are most welcome to buy a KIA. Even better value then your DC. :)
  • daedae Posts: 143
    Leased it at $359/month

    Shopping by monthly payments and buying fairy tales about someone else wanting it "just that day".

    I wish I have had more customers for my software just like that. :D
  • lumbarlumbar Posts: 421
    I guess I missed the part about where he said he was "shopping by monthly payments." The post I read had this information:

    None, just the base XLE at $26,614. Leased it at $359/month, $0 down, and that includes the taxes for NY state.

    Without your "editing," this would indicate to me that he knew the price, any capital cost reduction for the lease (0 in this case), and the situation with potentially exhorbitant state taxes. But then I wouldn't bother calling passing along a story told by a salesperson after a transaction was completed "buying fairy tales" either.
  • daedae Posts: 143
    It might have been less than a second, but you did it.

    Nice Motortrend review

    Comparing a $32, 495 Dodge GC - 205hp engine, same as upper models for Chrysler get. LX and Town and Country gets 180hp.

    Even base $23K Odyssey gets 255hp engine and ALL safety features.

    Numbers are (DC vs Honda)

    0-60: 10.2s vs 8.6s A very noticable 19% difference in performance.
    60-0 136ft vs 123ft A car length worth when braking.
    45-65 passing - 5.6s vs 4.3s Few seconds less in the opposite lane on your trip
    lateral acceleration - 0.69g vs 0.76g - getting into an accident vs avoiding it
    traction control - NO vs YES - flying off the road, vs staying on the road..
    turning circle 39.4 ft vs 36.7 ft - making a 3 point turn on a busy street vs a U-turn.
    tested economy - 18.4mpg vs 19.8mpg - and still Odyssey takes 7.5% less fuel.

    I fail to see how you can call this objective numbers in any sort of a negative way for Odyssey comparative performance. And note that the simpler Odysseys will not get worse performance (rather more, as they are lighter) and less safety, unlike DC. Just read the table.

    More to read here.
  • daedae Posts: 143
    I guess I missed the part about where he said he was "shopping by monthly payments."

    He has previously motivated a choice of base XLE vs EX based on $50 (or was it $75?) difference in monthly payments he was quoted. With the price of the vehicles beeing roughly equal. I was curious about that beeing wise (in the nice internet spirit of flaming) as the base XLE is a real stripper (affecting residual value etc. it is a very nice car when so equipped IMHO) and whether all financing options were properly studied.

    But then I wouldn't bother calling passing along a story told by a salesperson after a transaction was completed "buying fairy tales" either.

    It sure sounds like it, I have heard plenty of those, before and after a transaction. But you are right, I should not pass judgement. I apologize for that. (Can not edit the old post now).
  • daedae Posts: 143
    Yet another review All reviewers around seem to be singing one song.

    But if you want a van that is not only people friendly, but can do everything you ever thought a van could do, and in many cases, do it better, the Chrysler/DGC are the best on the market.

    If you define people friendly as safe and fun to drive, the comparison with an Odyssey I have posted completely destroys your argument. Can not argue with numbers.
  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    I agree with you!

    I have rented many DGC and T & C (over 60 in the almost past 2 years) in my business travels. Some were brand new(under 10 miles on the ODO) and loaded with leather and the big engine.

    I was always happy to get back to my Ody for its fun to drive, spirited acceleration, and "sporty" handling. And best of all, I have never taken it back to the dealer for repairs or PM(which I do myself).

    Hassle free ownership and fun to drive - unbeatable and priceless!

    When it is time to replace my other 10 yr old car - I may strongly consider another Ody for the same attributes above.

    The Ody looks cooler than the Scion 'Box"; is more spacious/practical and it would leave it in the dust in a heart beat(255hp vs 110hp) - have done so many times. I may even fool some folks and attach some Harley badges on all 4 sides. SMILES!!
  • j_ericj_eric Posts: 1
    $26k-that's a great price. I looked at a similarly equipped Sienna here in the metro Milwaukee area and found the price to be north of $34k.
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Posts: 626
    "the base XLE is a real stripper "

    Then what would you call the CE & LE?
  • mcgrath1mcgrath1 Posts: 2
    Be warned: I have a 2004 Sienna AWD, has run flat tires, 10 months old, 15,000 miles. Be warned: I have had two punctures already requiring replacement of $300 tires (each). Now all 4 tires have been at low pressure for God knows how long but the "low tire pressure" indicator did not come on for this low only does only "if the tire is almost flat from a puncture since they do not detect pressure, but rather differences in rolling speed of the wheels" according to Toyota Customer now I have a further $1200 in new tire bills to pay....avoid this car -at least these run flats - like the plague, and know that the "low tire pressure" light is not what you think it is...its a "different wheel rolling speed" indicator.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    As with any article, it is interesting to read the entire article. Each minivan had plusses and minuses. Read the quote about the Grand Caravan quality of ride compared to the more expensive Odyssey and Sienna:

    "It's the roomiest of our trio, has the most innovative storage solutions, and, in our instrumented ride-quality test, tied the Sienna for bounce control and bested the Odyssey and Sienna in pitch and roll control."

    Hmmm..... the Grand Caravan had the most comfortable ride and the article stated that the GC is the least expensive of the 3. ;)
  • daedae Posts: 143
    Hmmm..... the Grand Caravan had the most comfortable ride and the article stated that the GC is the least expensive of the 3.

    I guess it depends on your definition of "comfortable". At least they use an objective cretiria with an accelerometer - 20% more RMS acceleration on Odyssey. I would blame PAX tires on Touring (still better then runflats on Sienna though). PAX is a misguided experiment in my opinion, but with quite some future potential. EX rides better (and still even faster) and is just as quite.

    The word "control" though is misleading in the out of context quote. "Insulation" is more appropriate to what they have measured. It is rather easy to underdump your shocks - a sign of a technically challenged suspension design.

    For me (and apparently for most reviewers) this extra root mean squared acceleration comes mostly from "road feel", and I do find the tune of DCG ride thouroughly nauseating. Apparently I am not alone.

    Touring model used in the article is indeed the worst deal in the Odyssey lineup IMO. At least when going down one does not have to lose performance (smaller engine) or safety features. And why would not the worst car in a reviewer cost least? You get what you pay for.
  • masterpaul1masterpaul1 Posts: 421
    So what some are saying is, since the Daimlerchrysler minivan doesn't have all of their safety features as standard and doesn't have stability control or roll over sensors, it's not as safe as the Ody. Well, for the price that you pay for the Ody., you should have all the safety features as standard. (It cost a lot more then Daimlerchrysler minivan's). Seeing that the T & C and DGC cost less than the Ody. and Sienna, it's not a problem to pay a little extra for the additional safety features, which you still come out cheaper then the Ody. and Sienna. As far as stability is concerned, you should know that you get a better stable ride with a solid rear axle and leaf springs, compared to an independent rear axle and coil springs under heavy loads. (That's why Daimlerchrylser minivan's have a stiffer ride). I'm sure the Ody. and Sienna both ride good, but I would bet that under heavy loads that the Daimlerchrysler minivan's would be better controlled and less bouncey. You don't see trucks with independent rear suspension or coil springs. They use leaf springs and a solid rear axle for better stability, control and better to carry the weight without sagging.

    dae "And why would not the worst car in a reviewer cost least? You get what you pay for."

    You sure do get what you pay for: Ody. problems: Rattling sliding doors, power door failure, doors hard to close, ear buffing, poor gas mileage, wind noise, finding replacement PAX tires, bad radio reception and transmission woos. Boy, you sure told us. Let's see how many Daimlerchrysler owners are having these kind of problems that you consider our minivans the worst. :shades:
  • jimlockeyjimlockey Posts: 265
    We've owned four new mini vans, 3 Dodges and 1 Sienna.

    The Sienna is the worse vehicle I have ever owned. It was all over the road, didn't lke wind at all, but others don't like wind either. If the roads were a little rough it was hard to handle. It was a white knuckler..

    Don't take a Sienna to the hight moutains, S-curves, etc. If you do this very ofter I think you would burn up the transmssion....Two Toyota dealers told me this was normal for the transmission to get stinking hot. Excuse me, I've been driving in the the mountains for years and have never had a transmissions get hot like that. Even when I pull my fith wheel through the mountains with my Ford Power Stroke the transmission doesn't get hot like that.

    The bottom line. I got rid of my 04 Sienna after one year. It was way over rated...
  • jipsterjipster Louisville, KentuckyPosts: 5,441
    "it was way over rated"

    I thought the same of the 2004 Ody after test driving it. Seemed to ride and accelerate much like the Sienna. Was a nice van...nothing special. Exterior of 2004 Ody fairly plain and unimaginative. So, Honda listened to all you who complained and stole much of the 2004 Mazda MPV exterior styling and put it into their 2005 model.2005 Ody much nicer.Touring model has outstanding interior.

    While the Mazda MPV can't match the size, power or amenities of some of it's wasn't meant to. Has more than enough power off the line as well as passing power on the highways. Has plenty of room on interior...perfect for a family of 4. Has a quiet comfortable ride ... seats are comfortable...even for 7 people.Has car-like handling qualities, brakes are excellent. Interior and exterior styling complimentary...elegant, sporty and sophistacated styling.Is made in and finish and overall quality of workmanship is superior. Reliability is as good or better than competitors.Has a 4 yr/50k bumper to bumper warranty. A loaded LX a much better value than the ES. Sadly, is probably the last year for the MPV. :cry: Redesigned 2007 model will be available in fall 2006...though not in U.S.
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    I think I have said many times that both the Honda and Toyota are very nice vans. I look on both of them more as people movers than anything else, as I am sure most people that buy them would not use them to carry much more than people, strollers, toys, baseball gear and etc. I can't see very many putting plywood, 2x4's, furniture or most anything else big in them.

    I have tried not to put the vans down except that I think they are over priced and are not as trouble free as many Honda and Toyota owners want to make them out to be. But I have watched here as Honda and Toyota owners have slammed the Dodge/Chrysler in things as," I do find the tune of DCG ride thoroughly nauseating. Apparently I am not alone." Apparently not, but you haven't heard anyone that owns one, or even anyone that has done a product review on them, say they didn't handle very nice. Just some Honda and Toyota owners.

    I listen to others say the outside and inside of the Dodge/Chrysler is ugly, seats are hard. While I admit, I think the dash on the Honda is beautiful and they have some nice colors in them. And I love the inside of the Toyota, I wouldn't call the Dodge ugly. Especially outside. I still think the outside is nicer than all the vans. Inside, I think Chrysler could use a lot of color and chrome. Ugly? No. Plain? Yes.

    Yes, the Honda and Toyota is a little faster and gets a little better gas mileage. But the Dodge is fast enough for me. You see, I bought a minivan, not a hot rod. I bought a people mover and a working van, not just a people mover. Your Honda does an excellent job of moving people. Mine does an excellent job of moving people and being a working van too.

    While your vans look lovely inside. To get all the features I have and want on a minivan, I would have to pay about $8,000.00 more for a Honda or Toyota, and I still wouldn't have a working van, just a people mover.

    You can keep saying the Dodge/Chrysler are junk but people who own them know better. We love the way they ride. We love the quietness of them. We know the sliding doors work well and love the top quality radios and A/C in them. We love the front seats, they fit like a glove. We think Stow-N-Go is the next best thing since ice cream. We love the storage the van has that no other van can compare to. We love the overhead computer. We love the fact that we're ready to put in our vans, anything that can fit in a van and do it on a moments notice.Best of all, we love the idea that we got it all for the price we paid. Were happy no matter what you think of our vans.
  • elsiebelsieb Posts: 2
    Hi, I'm new to these forums so I hope I'm in the right place to get some advice. I have to decide between a low mileage 2001 Town and country and a high mileage 1999 Odyssey. Has anyone run into driver’s seat fire problems on Canadian market 1999 Odysseys like the driver’s seat fire on VIN 2HKRL1866XH003866? And what about any transmission problems? I intend to keep the car for a long, long time and while reliability is really important to me, so is comfort and utility for an adult and 4 children. I appreciate any help.
  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    Given that the tranny problems started with the 1999 models, I would be very concerned buying that model, especially with high mileage. Chrysler had their minivan tranny problems in the 1990's as well - but that has been resolved I believe.

    I have an '04 Ody built in June 2004 and the tranny recall was only to Odys built to Dec 2003. So the tranny on Ody's built from 1/2004 onwards had the modification/fix included as a brand-new, not rebuilt tranny.

    From a driving point of view, I find the Ody to be more fun, spirited, "sporty" and engaging to drive than the other minivans, and that drove my decision to buy it.

    Back to your choice between the two vehicles, it depends on many things such as mileage differences between the two(eg 50K vs 150K), mechanical conditions, and whether the tranny recall/fix was done satisfactorily on the Ody. If your priorities in a minivan do not include fun and engaging to drive, etc, then the T & C with lower mileage looks more attractive. I would have both minivans mechanically checked out thoroughly before deciding.
  • carzzzcarzzz Posts: 282
    When i am driving a sedan, I notice the Sienna Blinds my rear views during night whenever it's behind me, or when i try to take a left-turn. I was always wonder why does Sienna owner really enjoy turning on the Highbeam, actually it's not, is just that the headlight sit TOO high, and causes road hazardous
    the picture of the 3 mini for comparison
  • strstr Posts: 64
    I just have to say that I don't think irg considers his base Sienna "a real stripper." He clearly stated in an earlier post "But is comes pretty well equipped for what I wanted I didn't need or want a sunroof, leather, dvd, so for me, the base was adequate.

    I also know for a fact that he did not want the side curtain air bags for the back seat riders. I won't explain why, you can read the explanation on some earlier posts, but it was important to him and by buying the base XLE he eliminated that problem. I think he simply bought the van that fits his budget and personal preferences and eliminated paying for any extra features that he really didn't want or need. Why wouldn't he? Doesn't everyone?

    I don't think anyone's cars are "strippers" I think everyone has different budgets and preferences and usually buy accordingly. I certainly wouldn't tell anyone that the car they just bought was a stripper unless I was making their monthly payment!

    As for the fairy tail thing. I think a fairy tail is an event that is highly unlikely to have happened or to happen such as, pumpkins turning into carriages, beasts turning into princes and so on. I don't consider more than one person wanting the same van in the same day a fairy tail, I consider that highly likely to happen especially since I have heard that the base XLE is hard to come by. Just my opinion though! ;)
  • lastwraithlastwraith Posts: 350
    While you may not see many plumbers or electricians tooling around in a Ody or Sienna, there are PLENTY of taxis in the NYC area that are Odys and Siennas. Meanwhile I have seen one DGC taxi ever in the NYC area. Most likely because of the previous trouble with DGC transmissions, but this does say something for the reliability of the Honda and Toyota offerings. Taxi drivers do not suffer expensive to maintain vehicles for long here in NY. So it is not just consumers assuming the vans are a good value, to be driven as taxis they pretty much HAVE to be.
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    Like I said on another forum. The Honda and Toyota are great minivans. Both look very nice, good looking inside and are reliable.

    I think they would make a great taxi. If you're just looking for a people mover, you couldn't go wrong with either one. That is, if your only interested in taking your wife/husband and kids from point A, to point B, you couldn't go wrong with either van. Their top of the line.

    But the Dodge/Chrysler is more than a people mover. It's a family van. It can do things that Honda or Toyota can't do.

    If your going on an over night trip, you can sleep in the back of a Dodge/Chrysler van. You can't in a Honda and Toyota.

    If your kids want to take their motor cycle out in the country and ride it, you couldn't get it in those two vans.

    If you bought a new stove, dresser, Lazyboy, you couldn't get it in those vans. You could carry it in a Dodge/Chrysler minivan.

    You could load a 25 gallon air compressor on wheels and put it in the side door of a Dodge/Chrysler van, with one seat stowed, all by yourself. You couldn't do that with either of those vans.

    You could put a double stroller, all set up, in the side door of a Dodge/Chrysler minivan. You couldn't do that with either of those two vans.

    So when you buy a van, you should know how your going to use it. Are you just going to take you, your family and a few small things from point A, to point B? If so, you couldn't go wrong in buying either the Honda or Toyota. Both should give you years of good service.

    But if your going to use it as a family van and you know their will be many times you'll want to carry other, bigger things in it. Go camping in it or etc. The Dodge/Chrysler is your best and maybe only choice.

    How you use it depends on what you buy.
  • lumbarlumbar Posts: 421
    Well put. But have you actually tried to do any of those things in an Ody-Sienna and found that you couldn't?
  • elsiebelsieb Posts: 2
    Many thanks for the advice. Buying the red Town and Country today. I'll sacrifice fun and driving engagement for peace of mind over transmission worries and driver's seat fires like the one on VIN 2HKRL1866XH003866!
  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    You can probably get a great price as well given the weak resale value of the Chrysler minivans.
    Infact, I would use that(historical low resale value) and the fact that you can buy a brand new 2005 DGC for about $16K with all the rebates( according to the local Raleigh newspapers) to drive home a very hard bargain.

    Good Luck!

    PS: I never heard of driver seat fires before. Maybe that driver's [non-permissible content removed] was on fire for some other problem! :)
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