Making my Camry go 1,000,000 miles
beethoven07
Member Posts: 167
Hi all! It has been a goal of mine for quite sometime to make a car go 1,000,000 miles with only routine maintenance (read: no drivetrain rebuilds). I've always been intrigued by the challenge this endeavor would pose.
I feel to have a chance of making this happen, multiple things would have to align:
1. The correct automobile would have to be chosen (I think inherently some autos don't have a chance of reaching high mileage).
2. The "right" driving style would have to be used.
3. An exceptionally well thought out preventative maintenance program would have to be instituted.
4. An equally extensive detailing program would need to be developed to keep the body free of rust, etc.
5. A little luck couldn't hurt.
Well... my answer to the aforementioned points:
1. A 2001 Toyota Camry LE 4cy. I bought my new Camry with 12 miles on the clock last July. I chose a Camry based on its regarded history of reliability. I chose the 4cy as it historically has proven to be more reliable than the 6cy (only slightly though).
2. In terms of driving style... I researched breaking in engines, driving styles, etc. for months. I now have 10,000 miles on the clock and have generally driven the car "easy" staying under 4,000 rpm almost continually with few exceptions. I live in an urban area in Portland, OR so I do put a fair amount of city miles on the car. I'm shooting for no more than 40% city driving over a given 10,000 mile span.
3. I developed a preventative maintenance program that is defined both by an organic approach and a cyclic approach. I haven't overlooked anything including cleaning the tape head and CD lens monthly. I have filled my gas tank full everytime it's needed gas, always purchased the same brand of gas, and have recorded mileages in an excel database of every tank since the car's inception into this world.
4. I developed an equally in depth detailing program through over 4 years of research on the subject.
5. As far as luck... So far so good.
I would love to hear tips from other "enthusiasts" like myself on how they maintain their vehicles. I would love to share my experiences in great detail if anyone is interested. I will post periodically on the latest status of my endeavor.
Please help me with your tips. I do want to hand the Camry over to Toyota Marketing Executives at 1,000,000 miles for a free Lexus afterall.
I feel to have a chance of making this happen, multiple things would have to align:
1. The correct automobile would have to be chosen (I think inherently some autos don't have a chance of reaching high mileage).
2. The "right" driving style would have to be used.
3. An exceptionally well thought out preventative maintenance program would have to be instituted.
4. An equally extensive detailing program would need to be developed to keep the body free of rust, etc.
5. A little luck couldn't hurt.
Well... my answer to the aforementioned points:
1. A 2001 Toyota Camry LE 4cy. I bought my new Camry with 12 miles on the clock last July. I chose a Camry based on its regarded history of reliability. I chose the 4cy as it historically has proven to be more reliable than the 6cy (only slightly though).
2. In terms of driving style... I researched breaking in engines, driving styles, etc. for months. I now have 10,000 miles on the clock and have generally driven the car "easy" staying under 4,000 rpm almost continually with few exceptions. I live in an urban area in Portland, OR so I do put a fair amount of city miles on the car. I'm shooting for no more than 40% city driving over a given 10,000 mile span.
3. I developed a preventative maintenance program that is defined both by an organic approach and a cyclic approach. I haven't overlooked anything including cleaning the tape head and CD lens monthly. I have filled my gas tank full everytime it's needed gas, always purchased the same brand of gas, and have recorded mileages in an excel database of every tank since the car's inception into this world.
4. I developed an equally in depth detailing program through over 4 years of research on the subject.
5. As far as luck... So far so good.
I would love to hear tips from other "enthusiasts" like myself on how they maintain their vehicles. I would love to share my experiences in great detail if anyone is interested. I will post periodically on the latest status of my endeavor.
Please help me with your tips. I do want to hand the Camry over to Toyota Marketing Executives at 1,000,000 miles for a free Lexus afterall.
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This discussion has been closed.
Comments
... I'm also curious to hear responses from others on additional makes of vehicles that they feel could possibly hit the 1,000,000 mark and why...
If you have an automatic transmission 250 - 300k miles is about the best you can expect, even with doing annual fluid exhanges with synthetic ATF. The oil will also have to be changed every 3k miles/90 days (which ever comes first).
You do realize that if you only drive 20k miles a year, it will take you 50 years to reach 1,000,000 miles. You will, however, get to verify if Toyota gas filters really are "lifetime", or not.
I also had a '79 Newport that I bought from the junkyard for $250. The odometer read right around 30K miles. I figured it was 130K. Interior still looked very good, except for torn vinyl on the driver's seat. The other seats looked brand new. Well, when the guy at the junkyard handed me the title, the previous owner had bought it in 1986, with 105K miles on it. Well here it was, New Year's Eve 1996, so either that guy drove 2500 miles a year for 10 years, or 230K was more like it. BTW, I broke a vow to go that whole year without buying a car. I made this vow to myself because up until then I'd bought a car every year in the 90's except for 1991, although I bought two in '92, so I guess that made up for it! It's tranny went out on me about 4 months later though. Turns out that was why it was junked to begin with, and I was running on borrowed time for a few months. Thankfully, it died less than a mile from a reputable transmission shop!
The only high-mileage car my family had that was bought new was a 1986 Monte Carlo. My Mom gave it to me in March 1998 with about 179,000 miles on it. It was still on the original drivetrain, and she and my stepdad were kinda curious to see just how long that car would last. Unfortunately, about 3 months later I got T-boned while delivering pizzas, at 192K miles. So there went that. Well, there is my Grandma's '85 LeSabre, with 155K on it, and still on its original drivetrain. It's gone maybe 10,000 miles in the last 3 years though, so I know it'll never make it to a million!
Well, good luck on your quest for a million miles! Keep us posted. Hey, this could be better than "The Truman Show" !
Good luck with your project.
Harry
http://www.vcoa.org/irv_o_meter.shtml
Sadly, I don't think a modern Volvo could do this (saying that as a Volvo enthusiast, that kinda hurts to say...) this is on a 1966 P1800 this guy bought new. You've definitely picked the right brand of vehicle...my dad brings his 2001 Tacoma into his local Toyota dealer for routine maintenance; one day he was in for an oil change and met a guy who's got 800,000 miles on his '92 Corolla. Apparently he's a regional sales rep that covers all of New England.
Good luck.
Do you recommmend use of any oil additives, ProLong, ER, Etc?
How often do you change oil?
Do you use synthetic oil?
Do you use the old trick of putting in a cup of automatic transmission fluid and driving for a mile or so before oil change to shake loose the junk?
Do you use gas additives to keep injectors clean
Just bought VW eurovan weekender, hope it lasts about as long as I do, facing declining income and increasing driving, apprecite your project looking forward to your comments as you have obviously given the matter some thought
Thanks
58VW
In terms of oil changes... I take an organic approach. I switched to a synthetic at 7,000 miles and will probably install a bypass filtration system (I'm still researching this one). This said, oil changes don't necessarily have to be had at 3k/90day intervals.
I'm curious why you believe that my transmission (yes it is an automatic) will only see 250k miles if I'm lucky??
Are you serious about the Chevette? If so I may have spent $20,000 to much on my vehicle by getting the Camry.
I agree andre1969, it would be easy to get bored with a car after owning it for years and putting hundreds of thousands of miles on it. While I may grow somewhat tired of the Camry, I don't think I will ever get bored with the endeavor of trying to make it last to 1,000,000 miles.
I like the Truman Show idea. I guess I better get a vid cam installed in the car and hook it up to my cell phone for web transmission... obviously kidding... I will post pictures soon though.
I know Volvo makes a decent car. The mid 80's 240s are very popular here in Portland among the college age folks. I've seen a few in my neighborhood with 300,000 miles or so on the clock.
1. "Do you recommend driving VERY cautiously for the first few blocks to get oil on parts?" - I let my car warm up no more than 15 seconds or so and then I drive conservatively (read: easy acceleration and braking). Older vehicles require different warm up styles. I use a 5w30 synthetic oil so my engine is always well lubricated (even at start up).
2. "Do you recommend use of any oil additives, ProLong, ER, Etc?" - Candidly, No. I don't think that these types of products affect an engine adversely, but I don't feel based on my research that that they provide any benefit either. Most of the accolades these products have received are from lobbied marketers of the product's manufacturer. All independent tests I've read on these types of products have shown that they don't meet the claims promised, i.e. allowing an engine to run with no oil, etc. I think your money would be much better spent on synthetic oil, a good oil filter, and a good air filter.
3. "How often do you change oil?" - I have an organic approach to this. By organic, I mean that it will always vary depending on factors such as climate, city -vs- hwy driving, amount of short trips, etc. I changed my oil, using 5w30 petrolium oil, 3 times during the first 7,000 miles. At 7,000 miles I switched to synthetic and have yet to change it since.
4. "Do you use synthetic oil?" - Yes as aforementioned. When you use synthetic oil you can expand your change intervals. Some synthetics (Amsoil comes to mind) will allow you to go 25,000 miles or more between changes. In this case oil analysis every 5,000 miles or so would be prudent.
5. "Do you use the old trick of putting in a cup of automatic transmission fluid and driving for a mile or so before oil change to shake loose the junk?" - No, of course my engine is to new to have any deposits. A good synthetic oil will keep your engine clean. I wouldn't run ATF in my engine.
6. "Do you use gas additives to keep injectors clean" - I don't. I use Chevron gasoline. I usually purchase it at off hours so the tanks are settled. I plan to change my fuel filters often.
I hope this helps. Don't feel like you have to take my comments as gospel. I'm only sharing my opinions based on my extensive research.
You also assume that you can get replacement parts 18 years down the road when you learn that the Camry stopped production in 2006 and new parts not made. Maybe junk yards!
The other high probability is whether it will survive an accident which in 20 years (@50,000 a year) is a good chance will occur.
Oh, if you read the Engine Sludge board here at Edmunds you may have second thoughts about choosing the best engine for the job!!!!!!
amtdm, the sludge was in the V-6, wasn't it?
Harry
Ryan
Personally, I get tired of cars after a few years.
The comparisons between a new Toyota and various Mercedes-Benzs and older Volvos aren't really valid. The way newer cars are designed and built are vastly different from the way cars were designed and built 20-30 years ago. This is true even for Mercedes and Volvos of today. The kind of longevity were talking about simply is not part of the modern car's DNA - It's not in their genes like it was with the VW Beetle or a Mercedes 220D or many other cars.
I believe a Chevette can go mega-miles. Just look at it. Rude, Crude, simple to a fault. Repairs are easy, parts have interchangability with other GM cars providing for good supply. Like the Beetle, the Chevette is the antithesis of complexity.
I think the goal of trying to get 1,000,000 miles out of a car is an admirable one, if in conflict with my own values; I'd buy a new car every year if I could afford it. But perhaps the Camry was not the ultimate choice. The only car available in the US that I think could do this is a Mercedes E-class diesel. And even with that car I think some electronic gremlin will kill it long before the driveline dies.
At any rate I wish you the best of luck.
On another note... Though my goal may seem to the contrary, I do care quite a bit about the environment. This is another reason I bought the 4cy low emissions engine. I will always keep the car well tuned which will keep the emissions to a minimum. I read somewhere (you just have to believe me because I don't remember where) that a modern day 4cy low emissions engine would put out roughly the same emissions in 750,000 miles as a moderately tuned 60's v-8 engine without smog controls would in 100,000 miles.
You've also left out all the "soft parts" made from rubber and plastic. They will become hard, brittle and disentergrate over time. This includes things like the electrical connectors and the insulation on the wires. Try finding a working electronic module 25 years from now. Every electrolytic capacitor will have reached its end of life before you're halfway to your mileage mark. Time and old age will kill the car before the mileage if you don't drive at least 50,000 mile a year.
1. Regarding the transmission... see my post above. (I'm curious though if the Chevette oldharry was referring to that had over 400,000 miles had an auto transmission? Usually mail carriers drive an automatic. If it did, and a Chevette's automatic can go that distance, than I really say a Toyota transmission has a shot.)
2. In terms of whether we'll still have cars in eighteen years and whether parts will be available if we do... I'll have to chance it that cars as we know them now won't be banned. I think there will be many changes to try and make automobile transportation safer to drivers and to the planet, but I don't think they'll do away with our cars. I don't think replacement parts will be an issue for the Camry. You can still by replacement parts for cars that haven't been built for 30 years and weren't that popular when they were around through sources like Hemmings, etc. The Camry is the number one selling car in America - I'm sure that one, they won't stop making it anytime soon, and two that there will be plenty of parts if I ever need them.
3. In terms of engine sludge... It was the 6cy with the problem in the early 90's. I have the 4cy and am fastidious enough with preventative maintenance that it wouldn't be an issue anyway.
In terms of getting tired of the car, read my post #10
I respectfully disagree with you on the point of some modern day cars not being able to withstand long term metal fatigue like that of their older brethren. I say "some", as I do think there are certain types of cars that have digressed in their durability. Toyota though has extensively studied metallurgy over the years and has some of the best technology out there right now. Mercedes has also done extensive research in metallurgy, which is why you see a lot of durable older MB's. Chassis protection is one of the key processes in my preventative maintenance plan. I will continually pressure wash the undercarriage, waterproof and paint as necessary, and will study the suspension bushings and body welds for fatigue.
I agree with you that the Chevette is the antithesis to complexity - nicely put! If only GM put a little better engineering into this car you may still see them on the road today. There is something to be said for simplicity. I think the reson a lot of the older MB's, Volvos, VW's etc. are more durable than their moder day counterparts were that they were built much more simply.
My '94 4WD Toyota 22R-E is supposed to be as good an engine as Toy makes. It now has 75K on it and there is no way that engine will go 200K, even if I live that long. I think an automatic tranny adds longer life to an engine, but the auto tranny is still going to fail first. Bearings and seals and clutches just can't get there from here (IMHO)
Ryan
While a nice analogy, I don't think a television is a good comparison for this scenario. A given TV is only made for a year or two before the next, better (usually at least), model comes out. The average cost of a TV is only a few hundred dollars so there are not very many business's out there who stock parts. The opposite is true for cars. Remember the Camry is the most popular car in America (also the most stolen) thus there are a number of companies who maintain part inventories for them. I suppose you're right, that 30 years from now I may have difficulty getting a CPU if I happen to need one. I guess I'll have to bank on the fact that either I won't need one, or that with the advances in technology in 30 years someone will be smart enough to fabricate me something that would keep the car going.
I have an '80 Volvo 240 that I purchased used in 1982. It has just under 236K miles. Rust is starting to attack it in earnest, despite my efforts over the years to keep it clean and free of salt.
Right now, it has developed a stalling problem that I can't pinpoint to a simple cause. This is most frustrating because I've sunk a fair amount of money into the car in the last year for a timing belt, water pump, tires, and clutch (first time for the latter).
So now I'm facing another repair bill for a car that's worth maybe $1,000, tops. I'm afraid the day is coming when I'll have to throw in the towel.
BTW, I also have a '97 Camry 4-cylinder, purchased new. It's approaching 80K miles, and it has been virtually trouble-free.
No problems to date.
One thing:make sure yours does not get stolen on the way to 1 million miles!
Lemme guess...it happens when the engine (and outside temp) are cold, but goes away when you reach operating temp. How close am I? :-)
:-)
Back in 1984, I bought a cheap GE VCR for about $379.00. If something went bad on it, I would've gotten it fixed. But today, things like that are different. Last year, I bought a 32" tv for about $400.00. I also bought an extended warranty for $100.00, but I can't remember if it was a 3 year or a 5 year. But anyway, once the warranty is up, if the tv goes bad, chances are I'm just going to throw it away and go buy another. Same with the free VCR (a $59.00 value!) that came with it.
I've got two telephones in my condo that are less than 3 years old. They're both crap now. Ready to be thrown away. But then my grandmother has an old rotary phone mounted to the wall in her kitchen. That sucker was put in when they bought the house in 1950, and has never given them a bit of trouble. Even more interesting, I don't think I've ever seen a telephone with better reception.
Cars are kinda different though. Over the years, they've been packed with all sorts of safety and convenience innovations, so a $20,000 car of today may represent a better value than a $4000 car from 1957 or so. But $20,000 is far from throwaway money. At least for me, it is! In a lot of respects though, cars are becoming more of a throwaway item nowadays than they used to be. At least domestic ones are, in terms of resale. My Granddad (not the one who bought the Zenith) used to trade his cars every 3-4 years. He'd usually get about 50% of what he paid for his car when he traded it. One exception was when he traded a '61 Galaxie on a '63 Mercury Monterrey with the roll-down back window. He said it only cost him his '61 + $1200 to get into that '63. But today, I think you'd be extremely lucky if you could still get 50% trade in on a 3-4 year old domestic car!
You are right black_tulip, not getting the Camry stolen (particularly since I live in an urban area) may be a challenge. It has Toyota's best factory alarm. I know this would still pose no threat to the determined thief though. I guess I'll just have to keep the best eye on it I can.
I do generally feel vehicles have progressed in quality though over the last few decades. Certainly not in simplicity or ease to work on though. Cars of today are much safer, cleaner, and longer running for the most part (excluding those seemingly bullet proof MB's D's and Volvo 240's). I'm hoping anyway!!
biscayne - All your points are valid of course. The vandal / thief aspect I'm just going to have to chance. As far as city driving... I do quite a bit, but do take many road trips and country drives. I'm shooting for no more than 40% city driving in a given 10,000 mile period. Summers and Winters... The beauty of Portland is that neither are very extreme. We also have no road salting here. I do have to watch the acid rain though.
vwracer - I've read about the gentleman with the Bug. I believe he is in the Guinnes Book of Word Records. I'm hoping to do the same thing he did minus the engine and tranny replacements. I wonder if the New Beetle will offer up this type of durability for someone...
1. If you were going to try and keep a car as long as I plan to, what type of accessories would you buy to make the duration more enjoyable. I've thought about doing some audio upgrades, as I have an appreciation for jazz and classical. I would keep the factory radio but do other slight modifications to improve sound. I've thought about HID lights for safety over the long term. I've even considered adding a leather interior. I certainly don't want to 'over do' anything. I don't really want to draw the attention of would be thieves, and I appreciate more classic styling anyway.
2. Any thoughts on nice road trips - I obviously will need to take quite a few! I drive to Sedona, AZ at least once a year. I used to live there (a breathtaking place for those who haven't been). I can't pull away from work more than a couple weeks at a shot, but you can still have quite a nice road trip in this amount of time.
3. On the mechanical side... What are your thoughts on bypass oil filters. I've looked at Premo Lube (won't fit) considered Franz (but am just unsure about the TP thing), and Amsoil (the only one that I think would fit in my engine bay). The premise of the bypass filter seems like a good one. My concerns are oil pressure changes, leaks, etc. Any bypass users out there? As far as the transmission... Everyone doubts the longevity of the automatic. Any preventative maintenance thoughts other than regular fluid changes? I already have designed a pretty extensive preventative maintenance program. Would any one be interested in me posting it?
Any feedback would be great. I guess I better sign off for the night. I'll check in during lunch tomorrow.
Iin addition, the pre oiler looks like a good idea but installation looks complicated. If I lived in a cold climate I would definitely consider a heater for those cold start ups as well.
I guess we are, indeed, all diffeent...
Anyway, good luck with your project.
I would stick with factory Toyota filters. I think Frantz is long out of business (?) and believe those filters were nothing but a gimmick in the first place.
Also, back in '93 my boss gave me a similar Oldsmobile newsletter he had. He'd bought a Calais, that was fast turning out to be a piece of junk. Well, I had just bought a used '82 Cutlass Ciera with the Buick 231. I remember a similar article in there about a guy with an '81 or so Supreme with a 231 that had something like 500K miles on it. I felt kinda burned when mine blew up with only 73K on it!
I think in both cases, the key was that both guys had real long, mostly highway commutes to and from work, or maybe they did a lot of traveling for business. As a result, most of the miles that were put on these cars were fairly easy miles. Both owners said they did rigorous maintenance, and whenever something, no matter how minor, went wrong, they'd get it fixed before it turned into something major.
SoCal-no body rust at all.
Plus, you may be able to mount a larger canister by using one of the better filters over the OEM sized canister.
Also, I doubt very much any engine will go this far without at least three to four rebuilds/replacements, but I guess you've planned for that.
Last of all, while I completely believe in stories of extreme high mileage, I want to point out that as an appraiser I have never been able to verify one single claim of extreme high mileage myself. Without a log book at least, or a mileage counter at best, I simply don't believe most claims for 300K+ mileages from owner's casual estimates or bragging. Their odometers don't verify it for one thing ('oh, the speed broke and I put in another one').