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Comments
I do not think the Xfire is a good counterpoint. The Xfire sells at a significantly higher price point. MB itself competes with the Xfire using the newer version SLK on which the Xfire is based.
The Xfire did not get particularly good reviews on anything save its looks when it came out.
The Solstice/Sky sell at a comparatively more reasonable price. The car is all new, not just a fancy body put over a MB handmedown plaform. And the reviews all suggest the Solstice is a lot more than just a pretty face.
They are trying the same crap with the HHR too and they are already piling up on the lots
Every ad I've seen on the HHR are promoting it as a great deal for the bargain hunter. Where have you seen dealers trying to promote it as a high demand price be darned vehicle?
The Sky can actually be cranked out in higher numbers, as it does not use the hydroforming techniques necessary for the Solstice.
I think GM will find other varients for the Kappa platform before running off so many of either the Solstice or Sky that it would need extensive incentives.
Of course, even the Miata needed incentives the last couple of years.
Kind of like Hyundai sales in the US.
Both of these cars have decent little engines, will likely be fun to drive on the twisty roads, yet are pretty small and confining for long drives and for daily driving. They make great just for fun cars, and second cars. I don't see why either one is worth more than $20K though. When you get up into the $27+ range there are so many other choices which seem more worth the money. OK, worth is what people will pay for it - I know - I know, it is worth it to someone.
Loren
Perhaps we will find out if the Solstice is a weak-kneed attempt by GM on the race track as the Soltice will be raced in Grand-Am Cup.
Grand American Road Racing
check the link
Regulations in Europe
First - the Solstice won't be raced until next year.
Second - the car that WILL be raced will be a coupe version, not the convertible.
Third - I'm not sure just how relevant this is anyway. The organization adjusts the rules from race to race (usually by penalizing the previous race winner with additional weight) to try to keep all the teams somewhat competitive.
GM has also been campaigning the Caddillac CTS in this series over the last year. I'm not sure how many additional CTS sedans they've sold because of this however. They've also begun campaigning the GTO (which got spanked pretty hard in it's first outing and then won in it's second outing). While this might make current GTO owners happy about their ride, I'm not sure if this has led to new GTO sales.
My guess is the majority of Solstice owner's won't care if the Solstice is run in Grand Am racing; just as the majority of Mustang owner's probably don't care (or even know) the Mustang has been cleaning up in Grand Am racing.
Current quotes from GM are for 27,000 solstices per year, 8,000 sky's and 3,000 Opel's. This could change but we all quoted on parts with 107 cars per day, 5 days a week as the volume.
-----------------END QUOTE----------------------------------------------
The current, 2005 Consumer Report magazine has the owners reporting data on problem areas of their cars. If you look at Mazda cars, you simply can not find any listed there indicating poor quality at all. I see a lot of red dots, indicating the very best in reliability. If the Solstice is more reliable than a MX-5, that would truly be shock and awe! The Solstice will likely out sell the Miata 3:1 or who knows 5:1 based on looks, advertising push, being a fresher looking design, and number of dealerships. When the hard tops come out, it could be just like the early 70's, with those Z cars being everywhere. I guess most rusted out. Not too many Zs out there in fine shape.
Loren
The Solstice sheet metal is fabricated by a unique hydroforming process (At present, the Solstice is the only vehicle to have hydroformed exterior sheetmetal). The hydroforming process is not as quick as straight up stamping is.
The Sky and Opel will have regular stamped sheet metal. If GM wanted, it could make them faster.
As it is, GM does not expect to make as many Skys as Solstic, so this is somewhat of a moot point.
autoweek.com said that GM will produce a Kappa roadster for Opel so I'm wondering how they will do that as the Solstice wasn't designed for the new European pedestrian impact regulations.
Talks about interior as "simple and inviting". Low seats and high beltline make you feel as if you're wearing a "metal turtleneck".
On the highways came accross as an easy-riding, half asleep softie. To rouse the genie within we took the first exit toward the gorge and dropped the shifter lever down 2 gears.
"Steering builds in a smooth, even crescendo. Turn the wheel and the chassis takes and arc as if it's reading your mind. Determined gas-pressure dampers hold the body flat and maintain a steady frame of reference.
Long before his roadster dream Lutz worked at BMW, where properly groomed suspensions are standard operating procedure. Some of his insights have been passed down to Steve Padilla, the GM engineer responsible ride and handling, who added his own gymkhana and road racing experience. The result is a Solstice too good to be a Pontiac.
Major downer is weight. The "fast-built process left no time for dieting, so it hugs the road at 2879 lbs."
One of the toughest problems was building a the top that delivered on the original show car's promise. "Mimicking Ferrari and BMW cabriolets, the Solstice has a top with flying buttresses."
"The less said about the trunk the better."
"So where does this leave the Solstice vs. the MX-5? The featherweight MX-5 wins most of the performance categories but the margins of victory aren't enough to matter. Visually there is no contest."
"Odd as it may seem, our crystal ball says that Hollywood starlets-in-waiting will be lining up at Pontiac dealers."
"This is a Pontiac that thinks it's a Porsche."
0-60/0-100: Solstice 7.3/22.0, MX-5 7.4/19.8
1/4 mile: Solstice 15.8 @ 89 mph, MX-5 15.4 @ 91 mph
30-70 passing: Solstice 11.9, MX-5 7.8
Cornering (left/right): Solstice .92/.92g, MX-5 .95/.93g
Braking 70-0: Solstice 160ft, MX-5 154 ft
Solstice First impressions:
Classic late 50's California sports racer designed and updated for the 21st century
Hydroformed steel construction is solid but 2879 lb curb weight hampers agility.
World class steering, damping and overall balance eclipse Pontiac's past aspirations.
MX-5 First Impressions:
Exterior pays tribute to 1989 Miata original, which itself paid homage to the 1962 Lotus Elan
2.0 liters never felt so good. Geared to go, light and always on its tiptoes.
Runs out of suspension travel, structural rigidity and damping at adhesion limits.
just my two cents here:
Glad someone else noticed the structural rigidity issues with the MX-5.
Everything has a price - reduce weight too much and you can end up with less structure than you should have.
Supports what I think is going to be the case - no clear winner, two different approaches to the same thing: fun, top-down 2-seat driving. Enjoy your car..whether it is the Mx-5 or the solstice!!!
I think that sums it up completely right there.
GM incentives on this car will be a looooooooooooong time coming......
Of course, it's difficult to sunburn your scalp in a GTO.....
I saw a new (I htink) Porsche yesterday. It had side details on it that look exactly like the Sky. So it may be the Sky that thinks it is a Porsche.
Compare
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/porsche/carreragt/100500350/photogallery.html?app=il&pg_ty- pe=Convertible&styleTitle=2005%20Porsche%20Carrera%20GT
with
http://www.edmunds.com/future/2007/saturn/sky/100500273/photos.html?tid=edmunds.f.review.l- eftsidenav..2.Saturn*#
OK, the Sky is not an exact copy of the Carrera , but you can see what I mean
Of course, it's difficult to sunburn your scalp in a GTO..... "
--end quote------
And that is a good thing! And since the Solstice doesn't have a roll bar,
with the GTO in a roll over you also keep the your head!
Loren
Have yet to see one around here. Are they really being shipped out to dealers now?
Any spotted for $21K with air?
Loren
Most of them are high end with all the options added by customers....of the F1K cars......only one has been discovered so far not being ordered with A/C.....
Rollovers are dangerous incidents and have a higher fatality rate than other kinds of crashes. Of the nearly 11 million passenger car, SUV, pickup and van crashes in 2002, only 3% involved a rollover.
However, rollovers accounted for nearly 33% of all deaths from passenger vehicle crashes. In 2002 alone, more than 10,000 people died in rollover crashes. The majority of them (72%) were not wearing safety belts.
NHTSA data show that 95% of single-vehicle rollovers are tripped . This happens when a vehicle leaves the roadway and slides sideways, digging its tires into soft soil or striking an object such as a curb or guardrail. The high tripping force applied to the tires in these situations can cause the vehicle to roll over.
the passenger cars that were tested have 4- or 5-star ratings, and an average chance of rollover of approximately 12% if involved in a single-vehicle crash. The range for passenger cars is approximately 6% to 19%. SUVs and Pickups is considerably higher starting at 20 and going to as high as 45% for SUVs
did a very unscientific survey on the NHTSA site..for ratings for roll over....the 04 miata, Z4 are both 5 star rated..meaning less than a 10% chance and the 03 cavalier convertible was a 4 star rated...higher end of the scale.
seems most if not all are a driver error, and most werent wearing seat belts...
I have no problem that my solstice will not having a roll bar.....will be my thrid convertible without one....prior ones...a mustang and lebaron.....
That makes the odds that I will rollover on any given day.....maybe 1,000,000 to 1?
I'd say the odds of me being struck by lightning are greater. I bet I am more likely to win $100,000 in the state lottery than eexperience a roll over in my car.
A roll bar takes up space. I'd rather have the extra trunk space in the Solstice than a roll bar.
but that's just me doing MY risk calculation. We all have different aversions to risk. Some of us are risk averse. Some of us are more realistic.
We probably have greater risk of dying from slipping in the shower than we do of experiencing a rollover.
Interesting that the Miata offers the roll bars, room to fold the top, AND nearly 4x the trunk space with the top down. (5.4cf vs. 1.4cf) :surprise:
However, I'll agree on the roll bars; unless you're going to be hot lapping these cars, I think worrying about the absence of roll bars on the Solstice is nitpicking. Of all the roll over stats being bandied about, how many were high CG vehicles (SUVs/truck/vans) and how many were low CG convertibles?
And of the convertible rollovers, how many were single-vehicle incidents where the driver was going WAY too fast for the street?
I would also bet the the majority of the rollovers are other that autos as well...more likely vans and suvs.....just my guess however...
at a dealership today with its trunk open. It was a beautiful blue color and I really liked
its looks. Pontiac has a HIT!!!!
believer
Loren
You definately would not need a roll bar there.
Loren
For the 1969 model year, two new engines were introduced, the Ram-Air III and IV, producing 365 and 370 bhp respectively. The main difference between the two, was the use of either a Carter or a Rochester carburetor. Also added to the line-up was the 'Judge' model, named after the 'Here come da' Judge' expression from the 'Laugh-in' TV-show. The package included a striking set of decals and the easily recognizable 'Caroussel Red' orange paint.
Here is a 1970 GTO Judge. It could be had with a 455 cubic inch big-block V-8 with 360 hp and 500 lb-ft of torque.
Here is a restored 1970 GTO with a 467 cubic inch big block V-8 that cranks out 540 hp. It also has upgraded suspension and brakes.
Looking forward to seeing the Solstice Hardtop version. Monster tall doors? Up periscope, it is time to drive!
Loren
Seems like if they go with the Solstice in a hardtop version, it would somewhat eat into the sales of the G6 Coupe. They are two different animals in that one is RWD and the other FWD, and one being two seater and the other four seater. Yet is seems like most coupe buyers don't intend to use the backseat much, so I guess it would come down to filling a need for FWD vs. RWD in snow country. Price would be about the same, or would it be lower for the coupe version of the Solstice? It seems like the two cars would tend to compete with each other. Insurance costs I assume would be lower on the G6 coupe.
If they bring back the Firebird or the GTO, I wonder if the plans for the RWD Monte Carlo will go forward? They may decide that the Monte Carlo coupe is too limited in sales potential, and just go with the Impala four door sedan. Maybe a modified roof line with more of a long slope in a sedan will be a compromise for sport edition Impala or even a GTO. I prefer a coupe, but it seems hard to market them these days. A sedan is more practical.
Loren
G6 has a back seat(important to everyone including kids who want room for their friends), G6 has a trunk and G6 has a powerful V6 available.
Solstice