there are some VIN numbers assigned to EOP owners now...current production is ramping up..right now about 20 cars a shift..so slow but sure....should see all 1000 out and delivered by the end of Oct so it is being said now..then the next allocation...for the non EOP participants should start.....some being shipped next week
I saw a convoy of Solstices cruising through a Det. suburb, and followed 'em to a country club parking lot. All of the colors available were represented, and they had a S2000 and Miata for comparison. Was told these were pre-production, for VIP test drive. Looked at the engine and convertible top operation. All I can say is...Sweet. There was a bunch of Torrents there - identical it seems to 'Noxes but nice nevertheless.
I wouldnt dare pay over MSRP for the car...there are dealers doing it..but most with deposits down on the car...are selling at MSRP....if you are patient...they will go down as in any mass produced car....problem is...most allocations at this time are probably sold out through next spring.....so any dealer ordered car not pre-sold will be that mark up...car to sit on the show room floor!!!
Correct! I am in Iraq and have been following the Solstice (on my off time). A dealer in the ATL area said he might be able to get me one ... if I would pay him 5-7K over MSRP! :mad:
I then saw an Military Overseas Car Sales Trailer at Camp Victory, in Baghdad, Iraq and was able to reserve one for only $1,000 down and the remainder due when I come home. I reserved a FULLY loaded Sly with the two tone interior for just over $23K (bottom line), which is about 2 K under MSRP. I cannot wait until I get to see it in person. :shades: I also wanted to ask others if they have compared the 2 interiors in person.
I stand corrected ... that price was prior to me asking them to take off the overpriced "GM Protection Plan." The bottom line fell to $22,353.50 ,after subtracting the "plan." Only catch is to get this price you have to be stationed in Iraq for over 30 days ... :surprise:
great deal. glad GM is offering it....retired Army here..after 21 years..left in 98.....take care..and get home safe to enjoy that new car soon!!..patiently waiting for ours here in Northern VA...as well...
well there are some in transit now....have produced approx 200 since the beginning of production (entering the fourth week now)...these are all the early order program cars..the first "1000"...estimates have that production and final delivery through sept/oct at the moment....last check was production rate of 80-90 a week...so will take the plant a while to ramp up to full production for the after EOP orders....believe the latest estimate..is over 10,000 standing orders for the car.......
I was one of the VIP's on this drive, it was for sales training. They were excellent cars and were better than the Mazda and the S2000. We drove them on a closed cone track as well as a 10 mile drive through Plymouth. Also, the Torrent is a twin I have heard of the Noxes.
would I pay 30k for a solstice NO...MSRP only.....there have been some test drives and comparisons to the Miata and the S2000...but nothing official..all coming from Pontiac ride and drives around the country..where they have all three to drive........will have to wait on those comparisons ..biased or not from the car mags.....
seems at the momemt Mazda seems to be the one concerned most about the solstice from a pure price and public appeal perspective....the S2K....is priced well above the solstice....however it does seem most of the solstices are being ordered fully loaded....coming in between 23-25k before tax and tags.....mine fully loaded with all but two options.....is close to 26K driving off the lot.....
Oh, I have no doubt that Mazda is watching the new Solstice very carefully. Of course, they've also got a brand new Miata (sorry, "MX5") to counter the Solstice. I was just very curious about martymart's comment that the Solstice was 'better' than the S2000.
Better how? Steering reponse? Shifter? Balance? Perceived power (torque)? Style? Top operation? Ergonomics? Value? Gas mileage? Comfort? Reliability? Features/content?
For some reason, I get irritated when a salesman just makes a blanket assessment that Car "A" is 'better' than Car "B" with absolutely no discussion of how the vehicles were judged.
understand...from what Im reading on various forums..the solstice..while not as spirited as the S2K does take a salom course better...most are saying the S2k loses the rear end to easy..the solstice is near 50/50 on balance and torgue seems to be better...or at least the comments...I personally perfer the styling over the S2K and the cockpit is larger...more along the lines of the BMW Z4. most seem to praise the short shifter.....I may appear the seating isnt premium for a larger/taller driver....but I would say that is the norm for a roadster....some are mentioning that the cockpit is snug...I attribute that comment to the ones that have never truely or sat in a pure roadster.......so we will see....reliability....we will have to see in a year......value wise....I think the solstice is a basic entry roadster at a reasonable price compared to others on the market....top operation is manual...dont know what the Honda is to be honest....the Solstice has two buttons/latches that need to be release..one for the clamshell and one to release the top...then it appears best to lower the top while standing outside the car....dont know how the new MX-5 will be.....so...will see...I looked at both the S2k and 05 Miata....and just pure size and cockpit ergonomics...from specs allow I went with the Solstice.....was about 4 k less that a top end Miata and almost 8K less that a comparable equipped Honda in the northern va area........so will see....cheers!
here is an unofficial review from an EOP member...who had the privilege to see and ride in one yesterday in Mn at another dealer ride and drive:
Overall impressions—It’s gorgeous, the size is perfect, it sounds great, and handles like a dream. It has a more substantial look than either the Miata or the Honda. Has heft to it, more like a Boxter or Carrera. The single word that now comes to my mind regarding the Sol is substance. This is not a weak or flimsy little car.
Exterior—Forget your concerns about the roof or all the add-ons we’ve been seeing (the flying buttress bumpers, weather stripping, antenna, GM badge, etc.). Your overwhelming impression is the car’s beauty and you don’t notice the add-ons. Sure, I don’t love the GM badge either, but it’s unobtrusive and, at least on mine, I’ll leave as is. I like the roof, it has a substantial feel, very thick cloth. The glass window is sturdy and well integrated into the roof. While there was some of the waviness we’ve seen on the buttresses, IMHO it in no way detracts from the car’s overall stunning look. Even the ends of the buttresses were fine (something I had been very concerned about after seeing the close-up photos here on the forum, which looked terrible to me). When you see the car you don’t notice these things, and looking closely it looks just fine. Fit & finish also looked fine, though I honestly didn’t spend a lot of time looking for problems as these were test mules. Every color is a winner. I’m glad I was forced to choose before seeing them because in person this would have been a very tough choice. No one will be disappointed with their color choice. Mysterious and Envious are very dark, would have been great choices. Black is stunning. Red, Cool, and Pure are exactly what you’d expect. My color, Sly, was what I had hoped. I had been very curious about what shade of gray Sly would be, as I’ve been noticing many different shades in cars on the road, from reddish/brown-tinted gray to blue-tinted. Sly is smack dab in the middle. Essentially a darker version of Cool, with neither red nor blue hues. All the cars had polished wheels, which looked very nice.
Interior—I’m very impressed with the interior. Ergonomically perfect, everything close by, easy reach, right where you want it. Solid feel for the most part (the drink holders are a bit flimsy), steering wheel is solid, seats support well, all knobs and handles feel substantial, gauges look great. I’m 5’10”, about 190 lbs., my sense was that folks bigger than I will have no trouble. I rode in a cloth seat version, and the cloth also felt substantial, and looked great. Very understated texture. Most had black leather, which have a classic, understated look. Some folks won’t like the two-tone, which is what I ordered in my Sly. The gray is a gun-metal color, a strong hint of blue, and lighter than I expected, confirming some of the fears expressed by some of you here earlier. I personally like it, but some of you may not. It should stay a bit cooler than the black. Radio fascia well coordinated with the rest of the dash. My only qualm is the organization of some of the knobs on the dash. Other than the row of three large dials, the rest look somewhat randomly placed.
The Ride—Scott drove the car harder than I think I ever will mine. Accelerated hard, cornered hard, and braked hard. I would score acceleration a B+, cornering and braking solid A’s. Again, I wasn’t driving, but the Sol has a balanced feel that is very evident on the corners and in hard braking. The sound was more impressive—throatier—than I expected, especially when the revs got up there. The car also handled the speed bumps which they had set up very solidly. This will be a blast to drive!
Thanks - that exhibits a lot more thought (and has more weight) than a salesman flatly stating the Solstice was better than an S2000.
One comment however - this 'first impressions' report was from an individual who shall soon be a Solstice owner. While I appreciate the frankness of a few of the comments, would it be unreasonable to assume this person might be a bit predisposed to really really like the Solstice?
Don't misunderstand - I'm not a huge S2000 fanboy. I think the Solstice has it all over the S2k in both interior and exterior style (S2k is a bit boring on the outside and I HATE the dash). I also think the S2k could use a bit more ooomph in torque (although this was improved greatly with the change from a 2.0 liter to a 2.2 liter engine). But the S2k is still widely regarded as one of the 'best' roadsters available regardless of price and compares very nicely with a Boxster S.
If GM has managed to make a 'better' roadster than the S2k, and do it for several thousand less, I'll be surprised.
Braking, suspension travel, overall quality of components and balance in the S2000 more than likely will be better than the Solstice/Sky and MX5.
It should be that way. The S2000 is a more expensive, more exclusive car. But not everyone wants to pay that $10k premium.
What I want from my Solstice (or Sky -- I'm still so confused :confuse: ) is 23k worth of competence. The fact that I'll have a better looking car is gravy on the plate. I'll respect that the fellow roadster lover who popped more for an S2000 or a Boxster has the overall better performer. But I would like to think at least I would be driving something that made the more elite car driver crack a smile.
Is a stripper version of the forthcoming Solstice Coupe with either the 2.0 litre supercharged - about 210 h.p., or the rumored 2.4 turbo with 250 h.p.
The coupe will be somewhat cheaper, more rigid and lighter than the convertible. If GM were real daring, it could offer a bare bones model, a-la the new Lotus Elise, with just enough to be street legal.
Given the overall competence of the Kappa platform, you might have something that would be a bear for commuters but could really light up the more expensive competition at somewhere around 25k.
"It should be that way. The S2000 is a more expensive, more exclusive car. But not everyone wants to pay that $10k premium."
Absolutely. And for someone who only wants to spend 20-25k on a new car, the Solstice would be the 'better' vehicle. But if someone were prepared to spend as much as 40-50k on a vehicle, the S2000 may be the 'better' car. Value is a huge part of what goes into a car buying decision but what constitutes 'value' varies significantly from buyer to buyer.
"The coupe will be somewhat cheaper, more rigid and lighter than the convertible. If GM were real daring, it could offer a bare bones model, a-la the new Lotus Elise, with just enough to be street legal."
Yes, that would be awsome. And completely out of character for GM. Why put something on the market for 25k which could potentially embarrass their own Corvette? Particularly if they sell as many Solsti as they can make without going to that?
Yes, that would be awsome. And completely out of character for GM. Why put something on the market for 25k which could potentially embarrass their own Corvette? Particularly if they sell as many Solsti as they can make without going to that?
I am worried about this kind of thinking as well.
My hope is, some combination of the Kappa being Lutz' baby, and the GM performance team looking to spread their influence throughout the company will carry the day. I am not holding my breath. Seems to easy a plan to pass up though. But then, we all know how many cool might have beens are listing in GM's wake.
nope, i would pay 30k for the G6 convertible in early 06. It does not work for me, I do not have that much money for a car I could not even go get a couple cases of beer and store in the trunk!!!
For some reason, I get irritated when a salesman just makes a blanket assessment that Car "A" is 'better' than Car "B" with absolutely no discussion of how the vehicles were judged.
I thought it looked better, had better torque, handled better on the course, a lot cheaper, options are options, not a buy it now this is all you get!!!!
it is a manual stow roof just like the miata....dont know what the roof is on the S2K...again.to keep the weight and cost down....two latches..one for the clam shell and roof in the back over the seats...and one for the windshield...lift the clam shell..and push the roof down, close the clam shell..or trunk over it....have to stand outside the car to do it...most who have seen it...state about a minute to do
the premise to do a base roadster for 20K wouldnt allow for an automatic roof that would collapse into the clamshell in the back and then close .....all in all not a problem with this driver.....eagerly awaiting his roadster to arrive!!
"I thought it looked better, had better torque, handled better on the course, a lot cheaper, options are options, not a buy it now this is all you get!!!!"
Looked better? IMO, yes. I think it is heads and shoulders more stylish than the S2000.
A lot cheaper? Absolutely.
Had better torque? Hmmmm, well the two cars are within 25lbs of each other on curb weight. And the Solstice is rated at 4 more ft/lbs. But, isn't the S2000 geared a bit lower than the Solstice which should mean that torque at the driven wheels would be a bit higher? I dunno, I haven't driven a Solstice so you could be right. But I would be surprised if the Solstice could post a better 5-60 time than an S2000.
Handled better? I'm going to refraim from comment until I can read a review from a bit more qualified and unbiased reviewer than a Pontiac salesman.
Options are options? Well, this cuts both ways. With the Honda, you choose color and that's it. You don't have to scour the country looking for THIS color with THAT package and THIS option with THOSE wheels. Yes, you have the opportunity to get just exactly what you want, no more or no less, BUT the reality is that (at least initially) buyers will just have to pick from whatever is available.
But I'll certainly give you the cheaper and more stylish argument. And I'll also agree that for a vast majority, this would qualify the car as 'better' than the S2000.
You got to ride in one with the cloth seats, what do they look like? Are they made of plush material or are they made for easy clean up due to rain or bird droppings?
The Saturn will be a bit more loaded in the base condition and therefore a bit more expensive. In the new world at GM Saturn is moving up a notch with their new wide range of vehicles being introduced over the next few years.
With the Saturn rep for customer service and freindliness combined with the excellent new vehicles look for some production volume increase.
Info I found on a GM web site states; PREMIUM fuel is recommended but not required. It does not state what the minimum octane rating is. I'm sure it's at least mid grade.
I like the exterior styuling of the Solstice better than the Sky, but the interior of the Sky kills the Solstice, so......
I can wait for next year. By then I might have smartened up enough to buy a used CTS-V - hopefully one bought for a wife who decided against the stick. :-)
Am not sure my lower back can handle the likely low seating position of the Solstice, combined with the shifting. And I'd hate to buy it in an automatic. We'll see. But if a Pontiac dealer wanted my order, I'd place one right now.
Provided I could get one in red.....no, blue....aieeeeeeee
owners manual states 91 octane or better....but one of the specific questions asked at the unveiling Fri..is premium required?...and it isnt..most of the test mules were run with regular 87 octance... 62vetteefp is right....all noted you would see if at all only a very small dip in performance......its a high compression engine..thus the recommendation for higher octane fuel
well not quite...that is how many of the first 1000 EOP participants were at the official unveiling of the production car...the owners of VIN #1 actually got their keys...and it was shipped to them in Idaho after the unveiling of the car in Detroit....several GM executives actually autographed the car under the hood......so as of today the best we can determine..only 1 has been officially delivered....over 200 have been produced of that first 1000..and the first shipments supposedly left the DE plant last Weds......soooooooooooooo
A reporter is hoping to interview anyone who has ordered a Pontiac Solstice and either chose it over a foreign brand or previously owned a foreign brand. Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than Friday, August 12, 2005 with your daytime phone number and anything else you care to share about this shopping experience. And, please put the word "Solstice" in your subject line.
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Since one of the thrills of the Solstice is rowing through the gears, just how good __is__ its transmission and clutch?
Is it closer to the Honda S2000 with light feel and snick-snick rifle lock action, more like the kinda numb, grungy cable feel the Cobalt offers, or inbetween?
and, just curious...
is a Solstice the star at this years GM'S AUTOSHOW IN MOTION ? I.E., will there be one at the show we can actually __drive__ ?
all the reviews state the shift is short throw and concise....there is another forum you can see more information of the solstice but I cant post it here...PM if you are interested.....I dont think you will see it at the autoshow..unless it is a mule or engineering model...the production models are just leaving the plant and headed to dealers as we type this....the first ones should be hitting this week or next...but all are part of the early order program and are sold.....so I doubt you will get a test drive....patiently waiting on mine..probably will not see it till late Nov early Dec...
I think the new Solstice is beautiful. Looks like a classic British sports car. The let-down for me is that it's a GM product. That means that it won't be as reliable, as well-engineered or have the resale value of a comparable Japanese or European model. If this thing were a Toyota, I'd snap one up in a heartbeat. And MANUAL WINDOWS are standard? Just shows how cheaply they're going with this car to me.
Newly designed models of GM cars have been proven to have as good as or better quality in both initial quality and 3 year reliability than Toyota. Check out JD Power. While resale has not been determined on the Solstice, with a low volume vehicle and all the hype this one is getting it should do great.
Power windows are available if you want them.
Take the time and go look at one when they are in.
JD Power has never been an accurate representation of quality. It always amuses me that JD Power has consistently given high praise to domestic brands, and every other reviewing body in the industry correctly portrays American automobiles as far worse than Asian brands in terms of reliability.
Yes, I know power is an option. But it's a sign of where they consider the Solstice in the market. Not competing with the S2000, but apparently with a $12k Civic. (And even the del Sol had power windows standard with the base model.)
So, you are welcome to tell yourself that domestic brands are just as reliable or well-built, but you might as well tell yourself grander tales and really get something out of your fantasies As I said, I really love the look of this car, and just wish it wouldn't turn to crap like every 2 year old GM car does. Go drive any 2-3 year old GM car in this category (like a Cavalier, a Grand Am, etc) and drive a comparable Civic, Accord, Corolla or Camry and you'll see a huge difference. Also, check the depreciation.
Randy: I had criticized the base Solstice for the same reason, but I have now learned that there are legitimate market reasons to offer a base model with very few frills. I believe it is for "racing," but others here will fill you in, I'm sure.
I don't care what the base model offers, as long as I can get the options I want. I'd rather have the option to buy AC or other items than have them forced down my throat ala Honda. ("You want leather? You have to order a sunroof")
The Solstice will compete just fine with the Miata. It doesn't need to compete with the S2000 as they will sell at far different price points.
I can't comment on your reliability comment. Al I can say is "we'll see." I don't believe the "new" GM vehicles (i.e. the Cadillacs) suffer the same reliability problems that the old GM vehicles did. The CTS is as good as anything in its class. Let's hope the Solstice is. The best way to keep the Japanese and Euro car companies honest is to have good competition from GM (and Ford, etc.). Better American cars will beget better German and Japanese cars. The consumer wins if GM can succeed.
the goal was to produce a two seat pure roadster for under 20K...Lutz (GM VP) tried to do it at Chrysler and Ford...and they couldnt succed...GM managed to do it through a innovative new body design and manufacturing process...and allowing the consumer to pick the options....most arent ordering the base roadster but opting for the fully load models....with power, A/C, upgraded sound system, ABS, Limited Slip Differential...etc...even fully loaded it tops out at approx 25K....still way under the S2K and very competitive with the high end Miata.....
Most roadster sales are stale right now....ask a Z4 or an S2K dealer.....the Solstice should help bring the entire market back again......Im still amazed at the number of people who havent seen or heard of this car..despite a pretty big marketing compaign on this car.....will eagerly await the automotive mag reviews and comparisons.....from what the forums are saying...it beats the miata in power (HP and torque) and ergonomics (cockpit about the size of a Z4).....S2K has more power...but is in a slightly different price class as well...for a 20-25k roadster..I think GM hit right on....only time will tell for reliability......and yes I have one on order!!!
GM is still living from is bad experience of design and manufacture from years past....driving a GM now..(04 Chevy)....very happy with it....the design, the comfort, economy and price.....resale value...doesnt factor in with me..I drive them well over 100K where resale and trade in values arent an issue....
and after both a toyota and honda (late models) had transmission and electrical problems.....I came back to american!
You may want to do a little research before posting in a sports car thread.
Club racing is a popular and growing hobby for many.
Club racers throw out power accessories and air con when they tune their machines. Club racers appreciate the opportunity to buy a machine without the add ons. The base Miata will not have a/c for that very reason.
JD Power is not the only organization to rate recent GM products high. CR has chosen several GM products as best buys.
Comments
what colors looked good?
are they worth 7k over MSRP?
I am in Iraq and have been following the Solstice (on my off time). A dealer in the ATL area said he might be able to get me one ... if I would pay him 5-7K over MSRP! :mad:
I then saw an Military Overseas Car Sales Trailer at Camp Victory, in Baghdad, Iraq and was able to reserve one for only $1,000 down and the remainder due when I come home. I reserved a FULLY loaded Sly with the two tone interior for just over $23K (bottom line), which is about 2 K under MSRP.
Great Forum
I am glad GM is doing this.
I would willingly pay more for my Solstice if the premium is being used to give our people in Iraq a bonus when them come home.
So how about it: is there any decent roadster driving country there? Or is it all flat and dry?
Solstice was a great ride and overall package!
By what measure?
seems at the momemt Mazda seems to be the one concerned most about the solstice from a pure price and public appeal perspective....the S2K....is priced well above the solstice....however it does seem most of the solstices are being ordered fully loaded....coming in between 23-25k before tax and tags.....mine fully loaded with all but two options.....is close to 26K driving off the lot.....
Better how? Steering reponse? Shifter? Balance? Perceived power (torque)? Style? Top operation? Ergonomics? Value? Gas mileage? Comfort? Reliability? Features/content?
For some reason, I get irritated when a salesman just makes a blanket assessment that Car "A" is 'better' than Car "B" with absolutely no discussion of how the vehicles were judged.
Overall impressions—It’s gorgeous, the size is perfect, it sounds great, and handles like a dream. It has a more substantial look than either the Miata or the Honda. Has heft to it, more like a Boxter or Carrera. The single word that now comes to my mind regarding the Sol is substance. This is not a weak or flimsy little car.
Exterior—Forget your concerns about the roof or all the add-ons we’ve been seeing (the flying buttress bumpers, weather stripping, antenna, GM badge, etc.). Your overwhelming impression is the car’s beauty and you don’t notice the add-ons. Sure, I don’t love the GM badge either, but it’s unobtrusive and, at least on mine, I’ll leave as is. I like the roof, it has a substantial feel, very thick cloth. The glass window is sturdy and well integrated into the roof. While there was some of the waviness we’ve seen on the buttresses, IMHO it in no way detracts from the car’s overall stunning look. Even the ends of the buttresses were fine (something I had been very concerned about after seeing the close-up photos here on the forum, which looked terrible to me). When you see the car you don’t notice these things, and looking closely it looks just fine. Fit & finish also looked fine, though I honestly didn’t spend a lot of time looking for problems as these were test mules. Every color is a winner. I’m glad I was forced to choose before seeing them because in person this would have been a very tough choice. No one will be disappointed with their color choice. Mysterious and Envious are very dark, would have been great choices. Black is stunning. Red, Cool, and Pure are exactly what you’d expect. My color, Sly, was what I had hoped. I had been very curious about what shade of gray Sly would be, as I’ve been noticing many different shades in cars on the road, from reddish/brown-tinted gray to blue-tinted. Sly is smack dab in the middle. Essentially a darker version of Cool, with neither red nor blue hues. All the cars had polished wheels, which looked very nice.
Interior—I’m very impressed with the interior. Ergonomically perfect, everything close by, easy reach, right where you want it. Solid feel for the most part (the drink holders are a bit flimsy), steering wheel is solid, seats support well, all knobs and handles feel substantial, gauges look great. I’m 5’10”, about 190 lbs., my sense was that folks bigger than I will have no trouble. I rode in a cloth seat version, and the cloth also felt substantial, and looked great. Very understated texture. Most had black leather, which have a classic, understated look. Some folks won’t like the two-tone, which is what I ordered in my Sly. The gray is a gun-metal color, a strong hint of blue, and lighter than I expected, confirming some of the fears expressed by some of you here earlier. I personally like it, but some of you may not. It should stay a bit cooler than the black. Radio fascia well coordinated with the rest of the dash. My only qualm is the organization of some of the knobs on the dash. Other than the row of three large dials, the rest look somewhat randomly placed.
The Ride—Scott drove the car harder than I think I ever will mine. Accelerated hard, cornered hard, and braked hard. I would score acceleration a B+, cornering and braking solid A’s. Again, I wasn’t driving, but the Sol has a balanced feel that is very evident on the corners and in hard braking. The sound was more impressive—throatier—than I expected, especially when the revs got up there. The car also handled the speed bumps which they had set up very solidly. This will be a blast to drive!
One comment however - this 'first impressions' report was from an individual who shall soon be a Solstice owner. While I appreciate the frankness of a few of the comments, would it be unreasonable to assume this person might be a bit predisposed to really really like the Solstice?
Don't misunderstand - I'm not a huge S2000 fanboy. I think the Solstice has it all over the S2k in both interior and exterior style (S2k is a bit boring on the outside and I HATE the dash). I also think the S2k could use a bit more ooomph in torque (although this was improved greatly with the change from a 2.0 liter to a 2.2 liter engine). But the S2k is still widely regarded as one of the 'best' roadsters available regardless of price and compares very nicely with a Boxster S.
If GM has managed to make a 'better' roadster than the S2k, and do it for several thousand less, I'll be surprised.
Braking, suspension travel, overall quality of components and balance in the S2000 more than likely will be better than the Solstice/Sky and MX5.
It should be that way. The S2000 is a more expensive, more exclusive car.
But not everyone wants to pay that $10k premium.
What I want from my Solstice (or Sky -- I'm still so confused :confuse: ) is 23k worth of competence. The fact that I'll have a better looking car is gravy on the plate. I'll respect that the fellow roadster lover who popped more for an S2000 or a Boxster has the overall better performer. But I would like to think at least I would be driving something that made the more elite car driver crack a smile.
Is a stripper version of the forthcoming Solstice Coupe with either the 2.0 litre supercharged - about 210 h.p., or the rumored 2.4 turbo with 250 h.p.
The coupe will be somewhat cheaper, more rigid and lighter than the convertible. If GM were real daring, it could offer a bare bones model, a-la the new Lotus Elise, with just enough to be street legal.
Given the overall competence of the Kappa platform, you might have something that would be a bear for commuters but could really light up the more expensive competition at somewhere around 25k.
But not everyone wants to pay that $10k premium."
Absolutely. And for someone who only wants to spend 20-25k on a new car, the Solstice would be the 'better' vehicle. But if someone were prepared to spend as much as 40-50k on a vehicle, the S2000 may be the 'better' car. Value is a huge part of what goes into a car buying decision but what constitutes 'value' varies significantly from buyer to buyer.
"The coupe will be somewhat cheaper, more rigid and lighter than the convertible. If GM were real daring, it could offer a bare bones model, a-la the new Lotus Elise, with just enough to be street legal."
Yes, that would be awsome. And completely out of character for GM. Why put something on the market for 25k which could potentially embarrass their own Corvette? Particularly if they sell as many Solsti as they can make without going to that?
I am worried about this kind of thinking as well.
My hope is, some combination of the Kappa being Lutz' baby, and the GM performance team looking to spread their influence throughout the company will carry the day. I am not holding my breath. Seems to easy a plan to pass up though. But then, we all know how many cool might have beens are listing in GM's wake.
er, yep, I never noticed that on the website - I assumed they would do a power roof
Looks, handling, etc.
The S2000 only has more horsepower.
I thought it looked better, had better torque, handled better on the course, a lot cheaper, options are options, not a buy it now this is all you get!!!!
the premise to do a base roadster for 20K wouldnt allow for an automatic roof that would collapse into the clamshell in the back and then close .....all in all not a problem with this driver.....eagerly awaiting his roadster to arrive!!
Looked better? IMO, yes. I think it is heads and shoulders more stylish than the S2000.
A lot cheaper? Absolutely.
Had better torque? Hmmmm, well the two cars are within 25lbs of each other on curb weight. And the Solstice is rated at 4 more ft/lbs. But, isn't the S2000 geared a bit lower than the Solstice which should mean that torque at the driven wheels would be a bit higher? I dunno, I haven't driven a Solstice so you could be right. But I would be surprised if the Solstice could post a better 5-60 time than an S2000.
Handled better? I'm going to refraim from comment until I can read a review from a bit more qualified and unbiased reviewer than a Pontiac salesman.
Options are options? Well, this cuts both ways. With the Honda, you choose color and that's it. You don't have to scour the country looking for THIS color with THAT package and THIS option with THOSE wheels. Yes, you have the opportunity to get just exactly what you want, no more or no less, BUT the reality is that (at least initially) buyers will just have to pick from whatever is available.
But I'll certainly give you the cheaper and more stylish argument. And I'll also agree that for a vast majority, this would qualify the car as 'better' than the S2000.
The referenced confusion was (and still is) whether I want the Sky or the Solstice.
There is a lot to be said for either design.
Maybe I should buy one of each :P
With the Saturn rep for customer service and freindliness combined with the excellent new vehicles look for some production volume increase.
It does not state what the minimum octane rating is. I'm sure it's at least mid grade.
I can wait for next year. By then I might have smartened up enough to buy a used CTS-V - hopefully one bought for a wife who decided against the stick. :-)
Am not sure my lower back can handle the likely low seating position of the Solstice, combined with the shifting. And I'd hate to buy it in an automatic. We'll see. But if a Pontiac dealer wanted my order, I'd place one right now.
Provided I could get one in red.....no, blue....aieeeeeeee
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Is it closer to the Honda S2000 with light feel and snick-snick rifle lock action, more like the kinda numb, grungy cable feel the Cobalt offers, or inbetween?
and, just curious...
is a Solstice the star at this years GM'S AUTOSHOW IN MOTION ? I.E., will there be one at the show we can actually __drive__ ?
all the reviews state the shift is short throw and concise....there is another forum you can see more information of the solstice but I cant post it here...PM if you are interested.....I dont think you will see it at the autoshow..unless it is a mule or engineering model...the production models are just leaving the plant and headed to dealers as we type this....the first ones should be hitting this week or next...but all are part of the early order program and are sold.....so I doubt you will get a test drive....patiently waiting on mine..probably will not see it till late Nov early Dec...
The Honda has a six gear set up, the Solstice a five.
Power windows are available if you want them.
Take the time and go look at one when they are in.
Yes, I know power is an option. But it's a sign of where they consider the Solstice in the market. Not competing with the S2000, but apparently with a $12k Civic. (And even the del Sol had power windows standard with the base model.)
So, you are welcome to tell yourself that domestic brands are just as reliable or well-built, but you might as well tell yourself grander tales and really get something out of your fantasies
I don't care what the base model offers, as long as I can get the options I want. I'd rather have the option to buy AC or other items than have them forced down my throat ala Honda. ("You want leather? You have to order a sunroof")
The Solstice will compete just fine with the Miata. It doesn't need to compete with the S2000 as they will sell at far different price points.
I can't comment on your reliability comment. Al I can say is "we'll see." I don't believe the "new" GM vehicles (i.e. the Cadillacs) suffer the same reliability problems that the old GM vehicles did. The CTS is as good as anything in its class. Let's hope the Solstice is. The best way to keep the Japanese and Euro car companies honest is to have good competition from GM (and Ford, etc.). Better American cars will beget better German and Japanese cars. The consumer wins if GM can succeed.
Most roadster sales are stale right now....ask a Z4 or an S2K dealer.....the Solstice should help bring the entire market back again......Im still amazed at the number of people who havent seen or heard of this car..despite a pretty big marketing compaign on this car.....will eagerly await the automotive mag reviews and comparisons.....from what the forums are saying...it beats the miata in power (HP and torque) and ergonomics (cockpit about the size of a Z4).....S2K has more power...but is in a slightly different price class as well...for a 20-25k roadster..I think GM hit right on....only time will tell for reliability......and yes I have one on order!!!
GM is still living from is bad experience of design and manufacture from years past....driving a GM now..(04 Chevy)....very happy with it....the design, the comfort, economy and price.....resale value...doesnt factor in with me..I drive them well over 100K where resale and trade in values arent an issue....
and after both a toyota and honda (late models) had transmission and electrical problems.....I came back to american!
Club racing is a popular and growing hobby for many.
Club racers throw out power accessories and air con when they tune their machines. Club racers appreciate the opportunity to buy a machine without the add ons. The base Miata will not have a/c for that very reason.
JD Power is not the only organization to rate recent GM products high. CR has chosen several GM products as best buys.