Pontiac Solstice

spyderone

Pontiac has over 9,000 pre-orders for the Solstice. I wonder if they had offered the automatic first if they would have this many orders. I know that if they had offered the automatic first I would not have ordered one.

mdaffron

:shades:

Meade

snakerbill

My point is not to exclude either transmission from the initial production, and maybe they would have had 10900 orders if both transmissions were offered. Who knows? With automatics accounting for 90 percent of all car sales it seems logical to me for them to offer both. It seems that you 10 percenters just can't stand it that anyone would want an automatic. Why should that be so? Let people have anything they can afford to buy. How does it hurt you?

snakerbill

The answer is that GM needs the money, and they are desperate to sell as many cars as possible to stop their market share slide, and it only makes sense to offer any configuration that the customers will buy. Yes the roadster market is small, and they should have offered the coupe also. If GM would stop wasting their money on giant trucks that they have to rebate to move them, they could offer more new cars that people want to buy. With the price of fuel on the rise, very few people can afford to spend 85 dollars to fill up their giant SUV;s The day of 12MPG trucks is over and GM is sound asleep, still trying to live in the past. Think GTO. How timely was that offering? They did not sell well, and they wound up discounting them over 6500 dollars to get rid of them. Then what did they do? They made the engine larger so it could use more fuel, premium no less. Real smart business practices. What nut would pay a gas guzzler tax to buy such a thing? Of course it would not matter if you are a millionaire.

logic1

Actually, the new GTO is selling even better than expected.

The idea is not volume, it is profit per sale.

Keeping the mystique about the Solstice, keeping it a real driver's car, makes it less likely it will ever have to be discounted.

62vetteefp

1) 2 door roadster is a tiny fickle market. GM has sold out the Solstice for a year. They can build no more. They wisely did not build a huge plant capacity for this niche market. The plant will stay at capacity untill they redesign the car. They also have the Saturn version to fit in there soon and total capacity will increase. Heck, what they should do is raise the price a $1000 and just make more profit.

2)Trucks will do fine. SUV's are what most people want as past sales show. They are the most handy thing to have around. Even at their high prices they sold like mad. Most will carry 6-7 passengers very comfortably and when going on vacation or just doing things around the house you can fold the back down and pack full of your toys or your home depot stuff. They also look a lot better than the minivans (even though the minivans make more sense). They are also safer to drive and you are up nice and high. That is why sales are still so great. Yes, the largest negative is gas mileage and again we have a bump in the road (as we have in the past). So what is the answer? There will be a lot of work done to supply trucks and crossovers to fill this market. Trucks will get better gas mileage. Yes, 12 mpg trucks are in trouble for many people and that is why they are coming out with cylinder deactivation and crossover trucks. Gas is still cheaper than water. In a short time people will not think gas is really that expensive.

3) GTO with new engine and look is outselling their old predictions. And you are wrong about millionaires buying them. Must be more nuts out there than you think.

So what else do you want to prose expert on

spyderone

Pontiac's initial goal was to build a back-to-basics roadster for a low price with very little frills so they only offered a manual to keep cost down. THEY ARE GOING TO BUILD AN AUTOMATIC WHICH WILL BE OFFERED NEXT SPRING OR SUMMER. You will have to wait or learn to drive a manual. I personally don't care what you want to drive or what you can afford. It doesn't hurt me at all. All I said is if they offered an automatic first I would have waited for a manual. Maybe you should have a poll to see if people would buy this car as a auto or manual. I would take the manual. I think it would be more fun. Wher do you get your 10% number from? A big reason that the highest number of cars sold are automatics is because you don't have a choice because they are not offered in a manual.

thechosenone18

Anyone know what month they are "supposed" to drop. Summer is here and still know word from gm. I can't believe the first shipment still isn't ready.

snakerbill

I never said I was an expert, just someone with a lot of opinions, and some of them are like flags which I run up the pole to see who will salute. but you are right about one thing, there really are a lot of nuts out there. In a serious vein, I really do not think 400 HP cars make a lot of sense considering traffic, fuel prices, cops waiting for you to do anything they can write a ticket for, and my inability to resist driving it as fast as it will go. Like I said, there are a LOT of nuts out there.

62vetteefp

The only "sensical" cars would have L4's, seat 8 people, get 50 mpg, only go a max of 75 MPH and get there reasonably quick (0-60 in 20 seconds). They could build this car but few people would buy it. Good for me they build cars for the rest of us.

xkss

and I'm glad Pontiac isn't giving the Solstice an automatic transmission from the start of gobs of pointless gizmos.

snakerbill

Do you really think that the transmission type determines what is a sports car? I have to tell that to my friend who has a tip tronic Porsche. I will let you know what he thinks about that view of things.

spyderone

I had a tiptronic on my VW Passat. What a joke!!! It had a plus and minus to shift up or down. It was like shifting an auto from drive to drive1 or drive 2. It's not nearly the same without the clutch.

iluvmysephia1

hee-hee-I was waiting for someone to make an honest assessment of these clutchless automatic wonders that are supposedly so hot now. Without even trying one (as I have not) I would have to agree with you!

Anything I drive must have a stick and a clutch. If the salesperson says "we can sell you this one today, only I know you wanted a stick and it's an automatic, what'd 'ya think?", I would abrubtly state that I will patiently wait until they get the model I want with the stick.

Seems like a fad that has somehow caught on...yet, I really don't think true enthusiasts will ever be without a manual trannied version of the car they want. Is it like today's carpentry skills eroding with each generation of houses built? Automatics are sold in 90% of rigs today? Yikes...oh, and, if you don't mind, I'd like my house framed and finished in 4-6 months please, not 4-6 weeks.

Nice to see stick-appointed Solstice's being manufactured first by Pontiac. For this car it's absolutely essential, not just an option. Agree? Violent rebutalls? Softly-spoken similarities?

xkss

A Porsche 911 with an automatic transmission is lame.

tripowergto

The GTO is selling more than 50% with manual trans and the only 04's left at dealers are automatics. Many of us live in areas without daily traffic and prefer the added sportiness AND fuel economy a stick affords. My 04 350 HP 6speed GTO averages nearly 20 MPH locally and 27 MPH on long highway trips. Certainly not a gas guzzler, especially when compared to large SUV's and trucks.

snakerbill

How lame is a new Corvette with an automatic? I would venture to say that it will beat anything you drive in every performance perameter. 911's also.

62vetteefp

There is nothing wrong with either the automatic or manuals. both meet the needs of different buyers. Automatics meet the needs of most buyers. Manuals have a much smaller niche and will only be offered in vehicle types which make sense and $$$. You will never see a automatic in a 4 door Buick again (well it might if another GNx comes out!!). However it makes sense in a Roadster.

pao

the first thousand...(Apprentice Show Models) are scheduled to be delivery Sept/Oct timeframe....the second allocation regular models is scheduled to begin late Oct early Nov....various sources have been quoted as initial production runs to begin mid to late July as they look at the final engineering/quality control production vehicles are finishing now...so GM can get the production process and finish quality issues done.....crossing fingers......for the second allocation!!!!!

lemmer

To answer your question, on a lame scale of one to ten, a Corvette with an automatic is about an eight or a nine.

lhess

and I never used it. It was really awkward for me as I wanted to do the clutch thing in my head... I didn't like it, just drove it as a flat out auto. Folks assured me that the tiptronic would really make it sell better when I decided to do that. I traded it so maybe it helped, maybe not. My current ride is a manual, clutch and all.

62vetteefp

Summer started just a few days ago. Looks like they will make summer as stated by GM. :P It sure does feel like summer here. In the 90's!!!

pao

the first allocation I beleive will make summer...abeit a bit late....the second allocation.....which mine should fall in.....will be fall...no pun intended..which is ok here in VA....top down driving I have done as late as turkey day here....

graphicguy

I go to Detroit quite often for work since I have an office there. I've saw two Solstice's on the road. One pulled into a gas station I was at. Spoke to the lady who was driving it. She said she bought it a week ago. Don't know if she worked for GM, though.

Is GM saying they aren't out yet?

pao

according to the solistice site being run by a small pontiac dealer......they arent even in production yet..so I dont believe she truely bought the car....the car is being produced in the GM plant in Wilimgton Del....it may have been an engineering model....you also cant build one yet on the pontiac website.....If she is a GM employee...and they are releasing them to employees first..there will be an uproar..since they have over 10K standing orders for them now..One of the marketing plots was the first 1000 produced would go to those apprentice TV watchers who registered online.....the allocation was gone in approx 40 minutes...the night the car was shown on national television

nortsr1

It is possible that GM has given some to employees or whomever to "TEST" before final release to make sure of any possible defects.

bigdaddycoats

Saw another Solstice tonight at Walgreens. It was green - looked sweet!!! GM company car.

Only GM employees are currently driving these vehicles. None have been sold yet.

graphicguy

The 2 Solsitce's I saw must belong to GM employees, then.

The one lady who I talked to that was driving it didn't mention she was a GM employee, though. But, since I was in Detroit, it would have been a good bet she was.

She had regular tags on it, though.....no manufacturer or dealer tags.

Then again, I saw some of those little SMART cars running around town, too. We know that Chrysler isn't even exporting those for sale here in the U.S. Those had manufacturer tags on them, however.

bigdaddycoats

Most vehicles driven by GM employees do not have manufacturer tags. I believe all have bar codes on the front windshield on the lower drivers side.

pipefitter

As per an e-mail from Pontiac dated 6/28, all Solstices being made and shipping West, are going to GM proving grounds/road tests. No Solstices are being manufactured for the public yet.

Claires

A number of posts were removed this evening because they were off-topic / disrespectful. If you want to talk about trucks or anything else non-Solstice related, please use the search tools at the left to find the appropriate Forum. Off-topic posts will be removed from this discussion.

vanman1

I have seen 1 Solstice and it had Michigan plates on it. Clearly a test vehicle though it really looked good enough to be a production retail unit.

Can't wait to see them all the time, they look as good as a Vette IMO for less than 1/2 the price.

angelica

I'm just curious to find out if anyone has owned a soft-top in Northern climates? The thing is, I live in Florida - perfect top down weather - so I want to buy the Solstice. However, I study in Montreal, Canada - and although I won't be driving it every day while there, I do plan to take it out every now and then. I don't know if it's even a possibility for a soft-top vehicle in -40C temperatures... that and roads are really bad in Quebec and heavily salted. Has anyone owned a soft-top convertible in states like NY? How do they hold up? Should I just forget getting a soft top while I spend half my year frozen? We have an underground covered garage where I'll store it and I'll only drive it on the weekends - to the mountains to snowboard. I don't really know how such a car would react to the dismal winter conditions... I'd appreciate any advice!

iluvmysephia1

and make the statement that the new Pontiac Solstice looks better than a Vette. Name the year of your favorite Corvette of the past or the new Vette's and I say this new Pontiac sports car looks better than the whole slew of 'em. Bring this baby on!

America is so beyond needing an exciting domestic rig hitting the road it's not even funny. This is the one, car lovers.

m1miata

Well, the Solstice looks different than a Vette, but while both are fine designs, I can not say it looks better. Would love to own a 1972 Corvette, or any of the C5 Vettes. Also like the very first models of Vettes. For a daily driver, the C5 would be the one. I am sure it is more practical than a convertible, and has a good size trunk to put a couple of bags in. The C6 is OK, but I do like the C5 and if I ever get a Vette, that is the one for me. Twenty years from now, I think any Corvette will still look awesome. The Solstice will likely wear well too. Better than a Vette - doubt that.
Loren

snakerbill

Does anyone know what kind of suspension is to be offered on the Solstice? Is it strut? Is it double wishbone? A combination of these? I looked at the new Cobalt and this thing has, can you believe this, a beam rear axle, and Mac Struts in front, and to add insult to injury it has drum brakes on all except the SS. Wow. What century was this designed in?

jhershey

Front and Rear: SLA Aluminum control arms with Bilstein Monotube Coil-overs

Corolla, Civic, Eclipse, and Sentra also have those ancient drum brakes as well, but the Japanese/French companies produce them... so I guess that means they're ok. :confuse:

dhanley

The difference is that the cobalt/ss is sold as a performance vehicle.

logic1

In fact, the twist beam rear suspension is only on the SS Supercharged. So far, the buff mags have all been pretty positive about the car's handling.

If the suspension is antiquated, then maybe the competitors should be concerned that their 'modern' stuff isn't putting the SS Supercharged to shame as one would assume it would.

The SS Supercharged does come with 4 wheel anti-lock discs standard, by the way. The original post in this off topic thread mixed and matched the Cobalt content.

snakerbill

I was glad to hear that this little car has SLA at all four corners. The other cars mentioned (Civic, Corolla etc., were not under consideration because of the Mac Struts and drum brakes. By the way, I looked at a LS (non supercharged) Cobalt, and it had the twist beam axle, and drum brakes. I would not buy a car with these old style systems. I was considering the Miata, but I cannot fit into this car. (6 ft 4) and I hope the Solstice has adequate head room. But overall, I just saw a picture of the Solstice Coupe in the August Car & Driver, and that is REALLY the car I would buy in a hartbeat. It looks better than the roadster, and according to C&D it should be more solid and one could carry things inside the car without worry about some kid with a box cutter makeing off with everything. I hope this car will be produced ASAP. I would buy it sight unseen. Anyone have any knowledge about this version of the Solstice? Any info would be appreciated.

muffin_man

As I learned from someone smart on these forums, who I didn't give credit to at the time (and can't remember his name). The 911 also has a twist beam rear suspension. The result is way more important than the parts. The Cobalt SS outslaloms a Miata or a Corvette. So apparently it's ok.

vanman1

I saw in the local paper that pretty much the whole 20,000 1st year run of Solstice is sold out. Amazing that so many were sold site unseen. Great news for Pontiac. Bad news for those who want one.

snakerbill

Why does GM always make too few of the cars that people want to buy, and way too many Junksters?

spyderone

Not true!!!! Last I saw on solsticeforum.com was aroud 9100 preorders and this is before production starts.

logic1

The Solstice is part of the new move in GM to make good product that sells for demand, not promotions.

Keeping numbers of the Solstice low will keep demand high, interest in the car high, resale prices high.

If GM over built the Solstice the complaints would be legion.

vanman1

They must have meant all of this years car then since they obviously can't build 20K in 2005.

There is a limited number because the process for molding the body to the shape of the Solstice is new and much less expensive allowing GM to keep the price low.

iluvmysephia1

in the new Pontiac Solstice roadster take a good look at this link. It includes direct quotes from the car's designers and the challenge they had to get the car looking how they want it and staying in a profit-making mode at the same time.

http://www.ai-online.com/issues/article_detail.asp?id=413

It's a pretty good composite look at the hot new Solstice IMO.

adp3

since you guys are car guys, I'm hoping you have an opinion on the following: Should I buy a 2004 325cic or wait for the new small Volvo convertible or buy a Solstice?

a good friend of mine is selling his 2004, mint, 10k miles, 325ci. It has power everything, the step-auto transmission, leather, harmon kardon stereo upgrade, heated front seats, fully auto power roof, and upgraded wheels. (I believe it has the comfort (not the sport) package as it has a power roof and no white turn signals.)

I think low blue book is around 36. It drives like new, obviously, and my friend assures me it is perfect. His wife simply prefers to drive the Lexus SC330, as she needs the people-hauling aspect. I'm thinking I could buy it, drive it for two years until the new Volvo convertible is out or until the Solstice is in its second year, or until I get tired of having a convertible, then I could sell it (if I don't want to keep it). Beemers supposedly keep their value, eh?

It is a beauty - dark blue with tan interior. (no hard top)

logic1

best. But all BMWs are nice cars. They are all great fun to drive.

They do hold their value well.

The 325ci is a far different animal from the Solstice. The Z4 excepted, BMW designs its cars first to be hard tops. Their convertibles are still nice but you notice compromises when driving. There is some shake and bit of extra noise you would never experience in the hard tops.

The Volvo will either be FWD or AWD but not RWD. That eliminates it from any consideration for me. Drop tops especially should be RWD vehicles.

xkss

Anyone have any knowledge about this version of the Solstice?

The Pontiac Solstice will be raced in Grand-Am Cup. Check these links

racing one

racing two

Here is a link to the 2002 Pontiac Solstice Coupe concept

concept

and three links to pictures

picture one

picture two

picture three