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Comments
My design preference is modern. So the Sky should be a slam dunk.
But much as the first Miata was a near perfect update of classic '50s Brit Roadsters, the Solstice exterior is wonderfully true to its '50s Italian design inspiration. At the Auto Show I just kept coming back to look at it.
It is really strange to find myself liking what it essentially a 50 year old design. But wow.
In the end, I think it will be the dealer that pushes my decision. I know Saturn will do me right. I have a sneaky suspicion the Pontiac sales person is going to be all cool and friendly right up to and including the point where he tells me I either have to pay 2k over msrp or wait a year. That kind of stuff is not for me.
and I'm not saying it's a complete waste of time to consider resale value, but it is pretty low on the list. There are more important ways to spend your time and money than fretting over resale on a $20,000 purchase. Unless your time isn't worth much, which is true for a lot of people, I agree. If you make $5/hour, then your time is worth less than if you make $20/hour. You also are less able to afford a bad resale decision.
Actually, if you ARE buying a car and are worried about your money, then, yes, you SHOULD buy a junker and drive it into the ground. Any other approach is stupid from a purely financial perspective.
But very few of us buy cars from a purely financial perspective.
I suggest you buy used and invest your money. But that's if money is your primary concern. Sometimes there is fun involved. And being the first on the block can be fun. And it always costs you money.
This is a fun hobby and diversion.
I know it is not going to make me money. I base my roadster buying decision on what percentage of my fun money I want to throw at a car. If I buy one, I plan to keep it at least 5 years. There will be some major road trips over those 5 years.
So resale is out the window even if I buy a Porsche.
Front:
independent short/long arm, with 27.2 mm stabilizer bar
Rear:
independent short/long arm, with 24.2 mm stabilizer bar
Steering type:
power rack-and-pinion
Steering ratio:
16.4:1
Steering wheel turns, lock-to-lock:
2.7
Turning circle, curb-to-curb (ft / m):
35.1 / 10.7
Look at the steering wheel turn ratio! That is go kart territory. Adult fun at its best.
One thing to keep in mind is that the measured 0-60 times can vary widely depending on everything from the driver to when the time elapse starts to ambient conditions. I did a google search on the S2000 and it varied from 5.3 to 6.4. GM's measurement procedure is very conservative. I see C&D has the S2000 at 5.5 seconds so you are really dong very well to get low 5's on yours. They tend to do whatever it takes to get the lowest times using a common procedure. I have found that GM's stated times are about .5 seconds slower than C&D's. Therefore the 7.2 will turn into ~6.7 at C&D.
I think the solstice looks better outside, the sky, inside.
The base Miata will be $20,995.00. The base, which Mazda is calling a Club Spec model, will not have air conditioning.
Or, pretty much what I said earlier. These stripper roadsters without aircon and a lot of other goodies most want are really meant for ever growing pool people who want to tune them or use them in the amateur stock racing circuits.
Pontiac probably could have helped itself by making this clear. Those of us with Miata experience already know about club racing. Many being drawn to Roadsters for the first time by the beauty of the Solstice apparently did not know this.
Mazda has to take the Solstice seriouly. The Solstice kills the new Miata on looks, inside and out. I think the 2.4 litre may be better than Miata 4. I also think the Kappa frame is going to deliver very tight rail like handling with little shimmy that the Miata will be hard pressed to meet without bringing in after market anti-sway and thicker strut brace bars.
The Miata's with the sport suspension, air and other add-ons will be about 400 lbs less than the Solstice.
Will have to wait for the comparos.
As it is, the Solstice still beats the Miata by a grand.
The Miata Club Spec comes with power windows and locks. Believe the Solstice base will be manual.
On the other hand, the Miata Club Spec comes with 16 inch wheels, while the base Solstice comes with 18 inchers.
I speced the Solstice here at Edmunds and the Miata at the Miata site. If I went Mazda, I would take the Miata sport with a cloth interior. It would still have only 17" wheels. As the site talks about run flats, I suspect Mazda will not offer a spare either.
With the Solstice, I would add the limited slip, power package, anti-locks air-con and upgrade stereo.
Both coming pretty close in price. The Solstice about $23,495, the Miata $23,995.
Given the definite advantage in looks, the fact I hate my local Mazda dealer, the larger wheels, possible better GMAC financing, the Solstice would have to fall pretty flat in the ride and handling comparos for me to pick the Miata.
Question is where are the 10,000 going? They are going to dealers and you would probably have to find out if all the orders are from customers or will some be for dealer stock.
I do not know.
Instead, it will have an all new 2.2 litre intercooled turbo charged engine cranking out 250 h.p. Put some serious stiff shocks and some honking brakes on that thing, and it may even give older cousin Corvette a charge
The vette has a 10 inch longer wheelbase and more nose weight, so the solstice ought to handle a bit better, though. The vette has world class speed, but to me it felt kinda clunky to drive.
Nevetheless, 250 ponies in a roadster that would probably base around 27k or less even is some serious fun for not a lot of serious dollars.
http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/
The Solstice test-drivers give it a good report above in the link-take a look. Neutral handling around corners? Does that mean there's a lack of understeer when slinking around corners in your Solstice? Shipping the first week of August now-whoo-hoo! Enjoy your first-run Solstice's people!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
The Solstice is close to 50/50 balance and has good but not overwhelming torque. It should have neutral steering. It is a good sign the experts are saying it does.
The higher h.p. version will probably have some oversteer. Not welcome for the more conservative, but desired by the enthusiast.
I have to get off the fence, decide whether I want a Solstice or Sky, and get down to my dealer with my deposit.
From the examples I've heard so far, this does not appear to be widespread yet.
Two things may help the consumer here.
First is the aforementioned pressure from GM to keep the dealers at MSRP.
Second is the Saturn factor. No dicker sticker puts the consumer at MSRP all the time, but also keeps Saturn there.
If Pontiac says no Solstice for me unless I tack 3k to the MSRP, I can say good bye Pontiac, hello Saturn.
I bought my first GM brand since 79 last year....Chevy Malibu Maxx and am quite happy with it....and have the solistice on order for a second car!
there are some exceptions of course...and some one will pay the mark up.....if they want too..my advice..run away from that dealer as fast as you can..there are others out there who would like to keep you as a customer..just not sell you a car...
I'm not saying that that is why I would buy the Solstice. Am just curious.
Looking back at some of the cars that have become collectible, there is usually some unique configuration that makes one example of a popular brand more valuable than others.
For instance, I believe in '64, Chevrolet made an Impala SS with a particularly honking engine. While Chevrolet made a lot of Impalas before and after, this limited SS run became a legend. Now people are paying close to 100k for clean verifiable versions.
It will be easy to verify the date and time one gets their Solstice. I am not sure that alone will be enough to make it collectible. But, consider if GM makes only a limited GT run with the 2.0 supercharged engine before switching over to the 2.2 turbocharged. Consider further that the 2.0 supercharged version gets a reputation as being the best configuration of the car. That to me is what would make a special collector edition. (n.b.: I am just using the engines as a speculative example. I am not commenting at all on the quality of the engines.)
"GM pricing wont be available. Solstice is a brand new vehicle. Most
people are charging $10k over sticker. I will charge you $7k. We are
the biggest dealership and only get 8 the first year. We already have
people signed up. So most of them will be gone very fast. Please let me
know if this will work."
At that price you have to cross shop other vehicles - vehicles that the Solstice can't compete with. I can probably get a two-year old 325 cic for a few bucks more than the Solstice, and I haven't heard anyone say the Solstice is likely to be better than the 325cic. (I know they are "different" but they are both convertibles, and sporty, so I cross-shop them.)
So much for the Solstice introducing people to GM, eh?
Honda dealers guoged the S2000 buyers at first. Chrysler dealers tried to guoge the Crossfire buyers.
Unless Adp3's unscrupulous dealer is in Canada, it would be impossible for GM to fire or otherwise discipline a Pontiac dealer for charging above MSRP. Federal Sherman Act and all. Been the law of the land since the 1930's.
I'll give other dealers a shot
Sounds as though pao's dealer is pretty cool.
Of course you could break in your new Solstice with a cross country
Pao, can you help a Solstice lover out?
I wonder if maybe the real estate bubble fever is hitting the auto dealers out there in California. The sales people probably figure if a house can double its value in a few years, why can't a Solstice add a third in a few months.
As it happens, I understand the two Pontiac dealers near where I live in Chicago are charging MSRP the same as your dealer out East.
My problem here is that it appears the Solstices are spoken for at least until sometime next spring. I can put my name on a list in case someone drops out. But the dealer closest to me already has about 6 people waiting per allotment.
I am going to take your earlier advice and wait until the Sky is available, test them both and probably put my deposit down in April or May '06.