Pontiac Solstice

pipefitter

In the spring of 2006, the Solstice will be available with an automatic transmission as the Saturn Sky hits the market.

lhess

my clutch and my nerves. That's great news!! And that's about the time that they will feasibly be available in any kind of numbers or selection. Thanks, I'm gonna E her now!!

callmedrfill

will teach her how to drive a car. Someday.

DrFill

62vetteefp

rollovers on low 2 seaters are almost unheard of. Why putin the extra expense? I would rather have stabilitrak!! Or a better stereo.

Kirstie_H

A reporter is hoping to talk with someone who has either put a deposit down for a Pontiac Solstice or is seriously eyeing one. Please send your daytime contact information to jfallon@edmunds.com by close of business today, June 15, 2005.

snakerbill

From the first day I say the pictures of the Solstice coupe, I knew I was going to get one as soon as they became available. Instead, GM is going to produce the roadster first.. A bad move. A convertible is nice but any kid with a box cutter has everything in the car at their disposal. Also, why no automatic trans? Most people, myself included, do not want the problems of a standard trans in the heavy traffic on the roads today. Only some sporty kid would want to mess around with shifting all day in traffic, and how many sporty kids can afford a new car? GM is the only company in the world that can screw up a steel ball bearing with their bare hands. If someone in the company (Bob Lutz) comes up with a good idea, he gets transfered to Siberia to shovel snow. When GM finally gets a car right, they discontinue it the next day. How much of their market share must they lose before they get the picture that in general, GM makes cars that no one wants to buy, they make cars that must be sold (pushed onto the customers) instead of the customers beating down their doors waveing money. Ford just may have figured this out with the new Mustang. Where is the new Camaro, and why why was it discontinued in the first place. My last Z28 (2002) was the best bargain I ever bought. Nineteen thousand nine hundred out the door for a loaded car. Then they discontinued it, and replaced it with the silly fifty thousand dollar SSR goofy pick up truck. Will they ever learn. I guess they have sold about 10 or so of them.

m1miata

They are starting with a stick shift and not automatic shifting models because the original target market is based on the Miata car and owners. I would imagine that some 90% give or take a little, of Miatas are sold with stick shifts. The car is designed to be driven on those curvy country roads, where you have the most control of the car with a stick. These are sports cars with 4 banger engines, which in order to get the most out of, almost need the stick. I say almost, since you can still have driving pleasure with the automatic. I am sure the automatic tranny will be available soon since the target market is a big larger than the Miata. People will be using these for the daily commute to work and around the city. Personally, I hate driving the Miata in lots of traffic, or in the city where is impossible to see and be seen while sitting so low. The comment on the SSR truck as goofy, is a pretty good description. Yes, they need a Camaro and not a goofy fat truck. As for the Solstice, I would wait for the hardtop, if you are a person which values their head. Pretty cool looking car. Since the launch of the New Stang has once again proven problems in first run cars is still an issue, it is best to wait while others discover what one could say are unique characteristics of the car, as in problems, bugs, or annoyances.
:shades:
Loren

callmedrfill

The lazy and the SHIFT-less will get their wish in 2006, when the Auto makes it's debut.

But, for ONCE, GM has gotten it right! This is a sports car. It NEEDS a stick.

Period. The people that offends really aren't sports car DRIVERS. They should drive Cobalts or whatever.

Leave sports cars to DRIVERS. Thank you.

DrFill

beliver

Fill: I guess all those Porsche 911 drivers with the Tiptronic trannies don't REALLY have a sportscar then do they. Poor devils have been duped into just another run-of-the -mill,soccer mom, grocery getter, sporty coupe. LOL !

Bekiever

logic1

As for the Solstice, I would wait for the hardtop, if you are a person which values their head.

You may want to do a little poking around the library or on-line resources on auto design.

A Solstice hard top will rely primarily on the A pillar for roll over safety. The A pillar will not be any different in a coupe than in a convertible.

A coupe will have an advantage in over all structural rigidity - probably not much in the Solstice, a vehicle designed from the start to be a convertible from the start. The coupe will probably have better skid pad numbers. It will be somewhat more quiet. It most likely will not be any more safe than the convertible.

As you've been told repeatedly above, normal driving roll over risk in these types of cars is minimal. If they do roll, the A pillar is usually more than enough. Roll bars add hazards in whiplash type accidents -- they give your head something hard to hit if you are thrown backward.

And yes, obviously, anyone who takes the Solstice to the track will want to add a roll cage and seat harness.

62vetteefp

Have you seen anything lately about the Solstice? IT IS SOLD OUT!!! Can you figure out that GM probably did something right here? How can you harp on something that is sold out for a 1/2 year before it is even out! Obviously there is a market out there for a convertible with a stick. May not be what you want but soon enough you can have your desires after all those others that want a little fun roadster are happy.

I doubt the average of these buyers will be "sporty kid" age. Average will be well over 35. Probably more like 45 since that is where the money is.

Yes it is past time for a new Camaro. Lets hope they can get one out quickly.

62vetteefp

Come on, most of those Porshe 911 drivers would not know how to drive a stick much less actually touch those tiptronic's. Rich, wanta show off their money.

callmedrfill

It's not a reflection on the car, necessarily.

Many Vettes, Ferraris, et al have been castrated so the lesser driver could cope with the "hastles" of driving a car built for a manual.

I hope I don't need to explain the performance advantages of manuals again, do I? Unless you know of sports cars specifically built to perform better, faster, with slushboxes?

If I were GM, I'd get slushboxes in for next Spring, as a "product enhancement", to keep it's name out there, "Broaden it's appeal" to those who don't like the "hastles" of driving.

At least with the tranny, they got it right the first time, so, "I ain't mad at ya", GM!

DrFill

pipefitter

The Gm Card redemption allowance for the 2006 Solstice is $1000.00. I for one (50 years young), am waiting for the automatic transmission model in black cloth and sly. The $1000 allowance will get me the auto for "free".

pipefitter

Does anyone know if GM is going to have tours of the Wilmington, DE plant where the Solstices are manufactured?

iluvmysephia1

they will if people let them know right now there's a need for plant tours. Sounds like a very cool idea, really.

m1miata

I'd spend the $1k on air conditioning. The auto transmission takes a little fun, and some HP away from the car.
Loren

pao

would hope GM takes a hint for the BMW plant in SC..where the Z roadsters are built.....the plant holds frequent gatherings for the Z owners..to show the plant off...discuss maintenance and upkeep issues etc......when that happens....you will see convoys of the Z series from all over the country running up and down I-85..would be interesting to see if they would consider it.....if this car really takes off.....

logic1

In fact, there is even a museum and visiting center at GM's Corvette factory in Bowling Green, KY. GM should start a similar tradition with the Kappa cars.

beliver

62 vette: Do you suppose the auto tranny guys with the big ticket exotics are really suffering from some kind of "stick envy" LOL !

believer

m1miata

The Corvette is not a Solstice, so if they use more automatics, so what? The Solstice is suppose to be a light weight roadster like car, which better compares to the Miata or a British roadster of days-gone-bye. While it is not as light as an Elise, nor as race track worthy, the new GM wonder is suppose to be a sports car, and not a dragster or some fire breathing beast. The manual stick makes perfect sense. More control and power for back road fun. You are not going to win an automatic Corvette, Mustang, or other major HP car off the line and into the quarter mile - so what, it is not designed to do that. Will it be bought and used as an in town driven car, sure, and some may want to opt. for the automatic. I think most will be sold with manual transmissions, even after the auto is introduced. Unless, the car is sold to mainly a different market than it was designed for. As for the '62 Vette, I imagine with or without a stick, it is one handful to get around the curves. That said, any year Vette would be a blast to own. Great straight away power, and since 1984 more cornering ability.
:shades:
Loren

snakerbill

I agree with you, but I want to mention two things about driving on back snake roads. I prefer to keep BOTH hands on the wheel while driving hard, and left foot brakeing is faster when one gets used to it. Also, I am glad that the stick is offered for those who prefer that type of transmission, my complaint is why can we not have both transmissions available from the start. Also the Solstice is the ONLY car that GM currently makes that I would want, except for the corvette, but that car has gone up in price to the point that it is out of my price range. Also Drfil is wrong to think that one cannot enjoy a sports car with an automatic, or that a person who wants the automatic is lazy or incompetent as a driver. In my opinion, automatics last longer, are more consistent, and the five six and seven speed autos are the future. Also, do not forget the CVT in the Audi and others. Consumers should have a choice and the automakers should not restrict the auto trans when 90 percent of all car buyers get the automatic, and that is the mistake GM is makeing. Also why did GM discontinue the Camaro? That makes no sense to me because the Camaro and the Firebird were the best value in a performance car that I am aware of.

62vetteefp

cannot really fault them. My first new car was a '82 Z28 with stick. When the '84 vette came out I decided to go for the auto. Why? resale. Of course now my 62 is a stick and it's not hurting resale!! :P

62vetteefp

GM is not making any mistakes. It would be nice if it was coming out earlier in the summer yes, BUT they have sold out for almost a year!!!!! Do you think they would sell anymore Solstice's in the first year if they had a hardtop or automatic or earlier in the year? No, they will build all they can. If the car is as good as promised then it will continue to sell out as they bring in more features. There will be a rush of new buyers when the auto comes out, then when the hardtop comes out, then when the bigger engine comes out and then what ever is next.

Camaro / Firebird were dropped because the market was almost gone for the type of car it was at that time. GM did not see any profit in retooling for a new architecture which is what it needed. Yes, they should have been working on a new one 4 years ago so that it could be here when the muscle car market came back. Yes, they should have put some of the truck money in cars. Mistakes were made and they are paying for it. Then agaiin if gas had not gone up trucks wold still be hot and GM would be making profit.

m1miata

If the automatic tranny they use actually holds to the gear selected - no problem.
The typical slush-box they use may decide to go up or down when it wants to,
which is not so good in the midst of a turn, as you may know. Never tried that
Tiptronic, of whatever it is called. Seems like a fair compromise. Still think it is
fun to use the clutch though. I guess it is a reminder of the good ol' days of cars.
Yes- Tiptronic shifter would work fine. The digital car! It is kinda strange how all
these new cars come out with less than all the options, like the G6 not having a
stick or an in-line 4. Strange, but GM is not your normal car, or is it? Ah, normalcy
could be the problem, and Solstice the solution. Well, unless it is an echo of the
first two years of Fiero. Guess a fourth year model was pretty cool in a V6 though.
:shades:
Loren

callmedrfill

I'm not saying YOU will have fun in an automatic sportscar.

YOU can have fun riding a unicycle, for all I know. :confuse:

For some people, "fun" is going really fast, like 90MPH, regardless of car or road.

If you find automatics fun, G-- Bless ya! Enjoy that morning paper while you're at it.

Driving a car is more fun for me, and others who buy manual transmissions.

GM made the manual available first so that you know this is a sports car, or at least think this is a sports car, and not a poseur. It loses credibility as a sports car with every secretary in the office is driving one with a slushbox! That's the real world I live in. You can believe what you want. :confuse:

Miata's a chick car too, and it's been very successful because chicks need cars too, and it's cute as a button, so there you are.

I think GM is choosing not to go down that road. And the Sky will be much more masculine in styling. :shades:

The Sky looks so good, the first 2 recalls are on the house!

And what does that mean, Autos are more consistent and last longer? Who sold you that crock pot?

DrFill

iluvmysephia1

actually are more durable, huh drfill? It's true.

m1miata

Miata and Solstice are not chic cars. I don't know where that got started, but just as many males and females drive them. And both seem to purchase most of these cars with manual transmissions. Great on the back roads, and fun on the race track, these cars are not just for commuting to work. Actually, I don't like little and low cars in major traffic or around the city, as it is too hard to see other cars when moving out from stop signs, and it is always possible no one sees your little car. As far as cute cars, well yes, I suppose they are. A Mustang is a cute car. A Porsche is a cute car - so what?
A manual transmission on a rear wheel drive car, should be very durable indeed. If a person burns out the clutch, it ain't the cars fault. If the Solstice car is bought mainly for driving around the city, or commutes to work, the auto transmission makes sense.
:shades:
Loren

gill1

Not gonna happen. I work for a renowned dealership in the midwest and we would NEVER markup price over sticker. Pontiac has really stepped up the quality in their new model cars. I, myself, would never have purchased a Pontiac a few years ago, but recently fell in love with the G6. They will be reducing the number of models being made in exchange for much better quality, and higher resale value. Don't worry about the Solstice. It will be out soon enough-Lot's of hype on this car. Even if it came out on time, it would be hard to find one with everyone wanting one.

gill1

Dear Believer,

Guess what it's true. And I don't know of a single dealership that is not participating in this promotion. I work for a large reputable dealership and Employee Pricing is ablsolutely the lowest it goes. I purchased myself a car before the promotion began, the price I paid is on the window now. Don't know your beaf with GM, but don't be such a downer on everyone else and try to make them think this is a gimmick. Not so, that would be fraud, my friend.

iluvmysephia1

I'm kind of liking the new Pontiac G6 as well. Yep, the one that Oprah gave away to everyone in her audience that day a while back. It kind of looks like a 4-door Scion tC, just raised up overall a tad higher than the Scion. A decent looking compact, though the one for sale in the small Midwest city I live in tallies up to a high $26,000 sticker on the window. Seems a stinky bit much to me, even with a V6. How's their gas mileage, I wonder? I think the sticker said 21 city, 26 highway. Fairly well-styled, though, IMO.

The Solstice, though, is a true knockout. It would be very cool if it's mechanicals stayed together and it performed well.

logic1

I hope this holds true. I think a lot of the Chicago area Chrysler dealers lost good will when the PT Cruiser first came out. One dealer even had a sign saying they were 'only' charging $1k over msrp.

Chicago area Pontiac dealers have have been getting traffic from only a limited section of the market the last few years. The Solstice, and the two new G6 models, are going to bring people into the show room who may have never thought about Pontiacs before. It will be great if they leave with a real positive experience.

harlequin1971

this is old news. you are getting a stick because GM can't design a form of DSG (Clutchless manuals) into a $20k car.

manuals are better and faster than autos for about 2% of the drivers in the country that actually know what they are doing...and chances are - you aren't one of those - i'm certainly not one. Autos zap power, but the new developments in quasi-automatic shifting has blurred that line.

I would take a clutchless manual before an auto every day - but would take an auto before a manual. As a daily-driver...which this car would be if I bought it, I would spend most of my time on hot highways in slow and go traffic, hating the fact that I have to sit with my foot on the clutch for 45-min at a stretch.

My last 3 cars have been sticks, and 6 of my last 7...but the easiest car to own and drive everyday was my Honda Civic HX with a CVT auto...

Wasn't involving, but when I sold that car and got my BMW 318ti...I was cursing the manual after about 2 months...spend one 2 hour drive in stop and go traffic and it is all done...poof - there goes your "driving excitement"

if this is a weekend car, then by all means...don't dumb it down with a slushie. But a real advancement with be a clutchless manual...

btw - the Solstice has me holding my current car while I contemplate what to get next. Mustang, A3, or TSX...

I can live with a sports car...but I am gonna be waiting for the lines to go down a bit...no need to get into my chewbacca outfit and stand in line for this "Star Wars" premier.

iluvmysephia1

for 'War of the Worlds'? Which GM is intending this to be against the Miata.

Tongue popped securely in cheek, eh?

xkss

Got my new edition of M/T today and there's an article about the interior quality not being up to par. So what did they do? Disassembled the finished ones and rebuilt them. Sounds good but what happens to those cars? Will they be sold? or used as test mules. Would you buy one? Also there will be a turbo version Whoo Hoo!

They are wanting to get the quality right before sales later this year.

"Solstices have been running down the final assembly line for months. And when the cars have been built, they've been sent backward down the line, disassembled, and rebuilt to fine-tune the process."

- Motor Trend July 2005

There might be a supercharged Solstice.

xkss

GM makes cars that no one wants to buy, they make cars that must be sold (pushed onto the customers) instead of the customers beating down their doors waveing money.

Pontiac has 8,177 orders for the Solstice as of May 23rd.

Also, why no automatic trans?

The Solstice is a sports car, not a computer with wheels like so many other cars on the road these days.

xkss

Also Drfil is wrong to think that one cannot enjoy a sports car with an automatic

I've driven a 2004 Porsche 911 with a manual transmission and I would NOT have enjoyed it with an automatic transmission. At all.

dhanley

"As a daily-driver...which this car would be if I bought it, I would spend most of my time on hot highways in slow and go traffic, hating the fact that I have to sit with my foot on the clutch for 45-min at a stretch."

Eh--is that any worse than sitting with your foot on the brake for 45 minutes? No.

snakerbill

Hi. I said that the Pontiac Solstice is the ONLY Gm car I would be interested in, and is the only exception to my previous statement. Also, why can't I have an automatic and those who want a standard have that. There seems to me that there is room for both transmissions to satisfy the entire spectrum of buyers. How does it hurt you or Dr Fill if I want to drive the car with the auto. I do not care that he wants the standard, and I hope he enjoys it. Why do I not get the same treatment from others. I am not trying to convince anyone else to drive an auto trans, I am only speaking for myself. Enough bickering. OK? Also, I would like to point out that 90 percent of the cars and trucks sold in the USA have automatics. Not everyone who wants an auto is a wimp. I know some pretty stout guys who drive automatics, and I would not want to be the one to tell them that they do not know what they are doing.

dhanley

"Also, why can't I have an automatic and those who want a standard have that."

Quick answer is that it would cost GM a lot to develop, test, and certify another drivetrain, and they think it's not worth it right now. Since the solstice is a driver's/sports car, it makes more sense to develop the manual first, at least.

dave

jhershey

The auto version comes out once the Sky starts hitting the streets (Just in time for spring). So relax, you'll get your auto and life will be good.

bz73

Oh baby, I'm excited after ordering a Solstice on day 3. 33 Years after ordering my first new car -- a blue VW Porsche 914 that was a blast thru 250K+ miles in CO-GE-TX-AZ in my bachelor days. So now Dad can squeeze into / afford a sporty car again (about time!). BUT my present safety / macho / taste inclinations are for 3 upgrades:
1. Roll bar, either one behind each seat (cool) or a one-piece all the way across (don't want to check out like a P-47 landing mishap).
2. Immediate turbocharger add-on (for fun and the respect of my buds).
3. Desire for all silver metal to be white (powdercoat or the amazing process that has my '95 G. Caravan Sport wheels [bare aluminum on the rim edge] still white and un-chipped after 10 years).
ANYONE with specific advice re: roll bar / turbocharger / silver to white pls email. Thx

snakerbill

If the Solstice is going to sell like everyone is predicting, it seems that it would be a good idea to broaden the customer base with the automatic at inception. Is GM in the business of selling every car they make or not? Why overlook anyone who is ready to buy their cars? The bottom line does not care if it is a Sport car or not, just how much money does it generate.

62vetteefp

Actually more women buy the Miata than men.

62vetteefp

"If the Solstice is going to sell like everyone is predicting, it seems that it would be a good idea to broaden the customer base with the automatic at inception. Is GM in the business of selling every car they make or not? Why overlook anyone who is ready to buy their cars? The bottom line does not care if it is a Sport car or not, just how much money does it generate. "

Huh? that makes no sense. "If the solstice is going to sell like everyone predicted" why is it a good idea to broaden the base right away? They are sold out for a year and they are selling every one they can build! Why not build them as simple as possible, obviously contented right, make sure the quality is perfect and then add features as the sales start to naturally cool off? Keep sales steady and the plant going. the roadster market is tiny.

logic1

The ecotec engine is easily modified. Google the name. There are a lot of aftermarket turbo kits.

If you can wait a year, GM will have its own turbo version out in late '06.

lspangler2

Automatic and supercharger both available next year.

The Saturn version will have a splashier interior. Same basic materials but more colors etc.

Start of Production is unknown at this point. It was supposed to start May 15 and we have not been getting releases for more parts from GM so who knows when they will finally start. Even the eningeers I deal with aren't sure what is going on.

dhanley

"If the Solstice is going to sell like everyone is predicting, it seems that it would be a good idea to broaden the customer base with the automatic at inception."

Maybe. Remeber, the solstice is a sporty car, and quantity will be limited at first; they will probably sell the initial allocation just fine with all manual transmisions.

Why don't you just learn to drive a stick?

dave

snakerbill

I got so tired of pumping the clutch, moving the stick up and down in the terrible traffic I have to endure every day, that the auto was the best car decision that I ever made. I decided to never buy another standard transmission car. The car I have seems to perform good enough with the automatic, but I do want a smaller more agile car, something that can dodge the crazy drivers one encounters every day, hence, the Solstice, or if Ford improves the quality, the Mustang convertible. I know, they are two different cars, but either one would be fun to drive, and as I only keep a car for one year, I can trade again next year, and get the one I did not get this year. I do not care if I lose money, a car is a consumable, and the IRS gives .36 cents a mile against your tax liability, in other words, the IRS mostly pays for the car. Why not?

soapwaxsham

snakerbill,

This is a limited-production, niche car. I'm sure GM could spend the money ( hundreds of thousands ? ) to produce an automatic, and what would it give them ? More orders they can't fill ?

The Audi TT only came with a manual until the DSG showed up. Mazdaspeed Miata ? No slush box!

There's no reason why GM can't put some "exclusivity" into the product by marketing this as "If you want into this car, put some skin in the game - drive the stick."

Maybe your questions should be:
"Why isn't the malibu sexier ?
Why isn't the Ion more fun to drive ?
Why is honda alergic to torque ?
Why can't *anyone* build the perfect car for me ???"
AND
why, can't someone figure out how to get those other cars off the road, so that when I'm driving into work and need to get the blood moving in the morning I can make EVERY UPSHIFT AT THE REDLINE. ????