Pontiac Solstice

m1miata

Rolling one of these cars could ruin your whole day :surprise: All German drop tops have a roll bar, and the Honda S2000. Why other companies fail to protect their clients heads, I have not a clue. As for pricing, I would not pay over $20K for any GM or Ford. If the cars cost more, just wait a couple to three years, and buy it for half the price. It is amazing people still buy say a Cadillac knowing that the $44,000 car will be worth all of
$16K to $20K in three years time. What a wonderful way to waste away your money. I realize it is but a penny to a rich man, but my goodness, why not buy American cars used? At least those costing over $20K. I can see an econo car, like the Cobalt, say bought for $15K, where you have little to worry about if it halfs in price in three years, but do the math - $25K cars, it starts to burn serious cash. I think I may lose something like $1,250 a year on my '98 Corolla, if I sell it now, give or take a few bucks.
Let's see that is 8 model years. There is a Pontiac Grand Prix 2005 model year, with 19K miles on it, on sale now for $14,995. What are those, something like $23,000 cars. I think the Solstice pricing at under $20K is about right, if it had the roll bar and air conditioning. If not, they can keep the little car.
Loren

m1miata

" There are photos of the Solstice frame cut-a-way and they show "roll bars" build into the frame humps behind the head rests. "
--end quote--
Looks like a hump indeed, yet is not above the drivers head and there is no mention anywhere about a roll bar by GM. I can only assume it was left out. If someone finds the information on roll bars from GM, let me know. It would be good of GM to provide a bar.
:shades:
Loren

jhershey

Try as might, I can't seem to find the stock roll bars on the Miata at all either. Yes there are aftermarket ones, but the Miata's been out for a while.

If you're paying 5k+ markup on any make, I would suggest you find a new dealer. My dealer sells at MRSP, so I'll never have to worry about it.

froggersjc

Reading through this forum there seems to be a lot of GM bashers out there. What are you all afraid you overpaid or jealous now that GM is starting to make some decent cars? Personally I think its nice to have some affordable sporty cars out there. We love our Mazda Protege, but that new Miata or "MX5" is going the wrong way in design - from sexy to ugly. Now that GM's quality ratings are quickly improving I would not hesitate buying a Sky/solstice. I'd rather have a good looking car that makes it 150,000miles than a plain jane that could make it 200,000. After 6+ years no car will be worth that much so i'll save the $2000 that i lose in depreciation on savings with financing or invest the difference in sales prices and be ready for the next down payment! GM has some problems but I have a soft spot in my heart for the Detroit boys -- even if they can't run a business.

m1miata

Miata will be the second Japanese drop top to have standard roll bars starting with the 2006 model. And yes, previous models did not have a roll bar. I bought a Miata used for a third the original cost with 36K miles on her, so the roll bar addition and few extras amounted to very little overall cost. Actually, after owning it for 3 years, I could give it away and it would cost less than a year or two depreciation of a new car. All drop tops should have roll bars. All German cars come with a roll bar.

It is good that Saturn is getting a car which has some appeal to it. It will likely be overpriced, but that's another issue. Currently, they have no attractive cars, I can think of. They simply have nothing note worthy at Saturn. As for the Solstice, if a person wants to pay them some $23K or more for it, fine, makes no difference to me. Still would recommend a roll bar, if none is installed. Then again, it ain't my head, so go ahead.

Loren

lemmer

I think it is more like cynicism against GM for some of us who have been auto enthusiasts for a while.

Over the years GM has overhyped a lot of cars. There has been too many "Celebrity Eurosports as the new BMW" to compensate for the occasional decent Corvette or truck.

pao

I have talked with three of the largest Gm/Pontiac dealers...here in the DC metro area....northern VA and MD...and none are adding a dealer mark up...to these cars....all are going for the MSRP.....it does seem to be a lot of GM bashing going on..but again.....most of the forums here are full of those with complaints and not those with positive comments...regardless of the make or model...foreign or domestic....

pao

I think all cars have their inherit problems...Im amazed at the number of complaints over on the Mercedes forum...and some Accord and Camry owners.....are very bitter over some of their experiences as well....again.....there are always gonna be some lemons out there......I ventured back into GM after many years away..with the new malibu maxx..and couldnt be happier with it now....18 months and 25K on it..and not one problem!!!....

pao

where is the roll bar on the 2005 CLK500 Mercedes.....I dont see what is commonly referred to as a roll bar that extends above a drivers head in the photo from the MB website?? or at lease one that would sustain a roll over...

http://www.mbusa.com/brand/container.jsp?/models/gallery/photo_gallery/index.jsp&mcode=CLK- - - 320A&modelCode=CLK320A&style=cabriolet&menu=4

nor do i see one on the honda ......that would meet a roll over test....I would venture to say...any roll over would ruin your day...regardless of the vehicle you are driving....did you have a roll bar installed in your miata???

just curious about your statement that all german drop tops have a roll bar.....the only ones that appear to have true roll bars are the porsche boxster and the audi TT roadsters.....but that fact is not highlighted in the safety specifications of any of these cars

pao

Loren..just curious..what is the other japanese model to have a std roll bar in 06..the mazda website shows the new MX-5...but I dont see what I would consider a roll bar in any of the gallery photos....other that a head rest on the seats.....I wouldnt consider that a true roll bar for roll over protectio either....and again..doesnt mention this a part of the safety features of the vehicle....I understand your concern...and you took the additional safety precaution of adding an aftermarket bar to counter your concern for a roll over.....was it professionally installed I assume..bolted or welded to the chassis frame??

m1miata

Yes, all German autos sold today do have bars, or pop up bars, which are roll bars and not style bars. The S2000 Honda has a roll bar.
-Loren

spyderone

I agree with pao. I went to the Mazda website and the rollbar does not extend above the seat unless it is automatic and raises when you engage the transmission. Also, the Mercedes CLK didn't have a rollbar unless it too raises up when the transmission is engaged. The SLK class has one that is above the seat.

Loren...

It is great that you enjoy getting a used car and it sounds like you have gotten a great deal, but not everyone likes to buy used. I have had both and I really like to buy new regardless of the depriciation. I doubt that most people buy a car as an investment unless you are buying a Ferrari or some exotic that costs $200K+

dhanley

"where is the roll bar on the 2005 CLK500 Mercedes?"

It deploys once the car is past a specific angle. All the european convertables do this( including saab & volvo ), except for the ones in which the roll bars are fixed.

I think it might be a bit much to expect a $20K car to have this feature, though. Even with the current discounts, a saab 9-3 linear convert is $32K. However, fixed roll bars WOULD be nice.

dave

m1miata

My roll bar was installed at a British Car Shop. The brand is Autopower, an old name in roll bars. Autopower company is based in San Diego, I believe. You can get roll bars and cages there for just about any animal you ride. The new Miata is suppose to have a real roll bar. Not sure if it is pop up type, or not. My next car will be a hardtop. The convertible soft tops are OK in some ways, and more trouble in other ways. The Miata comes with soft top, so that's what I got. Got the car for its handling and overall performance. These are tough cars, and take lots of punishment on rough country roads, without complaining much at all. I wonder how tough the Solstice will be? Will find out if they form clubs and tear-up the back roads in those cars. That shakes out any lose nuts and bolts. The lose ones behind the wheel too :surprise: The new Miata may look too close to previous models. Now this can be considered a good thing in that the look is smooth and stylish without too much in-your-face design. But I think after all this time, they should have added a bit more aggressive and yes new looks to her. The Solstice will likely outsell the Miata by 2:1 or 3:1 is my prediction. Will it be a better drivers cars.... well that's a different story. We shall see, or is that drive!
Loren

m1miata

Automatic rollover-sensing pop-up roll bars, integrated with dual rear-seat head restraints.

That's their quote.

Maybe Potiac will have something too - let's hope, Loren

spyderone

I am not exactly sure when they started building the Miata. I think it was around 1990 and it took them until 2006 to add a rollbar. Give Pontiac a chance. This is the first year for the Solstice. They are already planning a 240hp turbo Solstice for 2007. They will add things and make improvements as the years progress if the car is successful. They already have over 8000 preorders according to Lori Queen.

m1miata

The Big Three save a buck by not installing roll bars. That's the only explanation which comes to mind. Save a dollar and lose thy head - not good. A turbo Solstice -Like the idea of HP, but not turbo. Prefer not to have a turbo on a car used for twisty country roads, as it just is not a well suited. I imagine this car will appeal to a different crowd, so the turbo may help for passing power on freeways and street racing,. Looks like a totally fresh design, which may help Pontiac, as did CTS. I wonder if CTS is now getting old with people, and if the edgy style has staying power years from now. Looks interesting now, but in years to come, possibly just strange - who knows. The Solstice, on the other had, is smoother lines, which seem to stand the test of time.
Loren

Kirstie_H

A reporter with a national newspaper would like to speak with professional women who for the first time are buying a fun car or truck they have been longing to own but were not able to buy before because it wasn’t practical. This vehicle purchase is a splurge. The reporter would like to speak with first time buyers of full-size trucks, convertibles, Miatas, Porsches or Jaguars. If you fit what the reporter is looking for, please email a brief description with contact information to Kirsten Holguin at kholguin@edmunds.com as soon as possible.

jhershey

Eh, roll bar or not... if you land on something that's not relatively flat, you could be looking at a lot of pain. A nice sized rock could easily bridge the gap from roll bar to head. Negating any benefit. The likely hood of that happening, I haven't a clue. Its like looking to buy a motorcycle and complaining about a lack of roll cage to protect you. Though one of things I loved about my old GTA was the added protection of the t-top.

Driving with the top down on a warm summer night, more than makes up for the risk (have a Miata at the moment, the toilet seat lid looking hood has me shying away from the new one). The added risk for a convertible might not be for everyone, but a sunroof doesn't even satisfy me. Been sold on the open air ever since I first rode my aunt's Miata when I was 12.

xkss

"Solstices have been running down the final assembly line for months. And when the cars have been built, they've been sent backward down the line, disassembled, and rebuilt to fine-tune the process."

- Motor Trend July 2005

xkss

pontiac wont even be making this 3 years from now

I'll quote you on that.

xkss

All German cars come with a roll bar.

The least expensive rwd, two-seater German roadster is the $34,300 BMW Z4.

pao

should have read closer.....still waiting patiently for delivery in late 05!

m1miata

" All German cars come with a roll bar.

The least expensive rwd, two-seater German roadster is the $34,300 BMW Z4. "
--end quote--
The point being what? The VW New Beetle has roll over protection. All cars, regardless of price range need roll over protection. You could save money by
not having air bags too, but I don't see that happening. Lots of ways to save
money, such as going back to drum brakes, not having seat belts, defrosters.
Heck lots of ways to save money. Adding safety devices which are necessary
saves lives on ALL cars, in all price brackets.
Loren

xkss

The point being that the BMW Z4 2.5i costs around $14,000 more than the 2006 Pontiac Solstice.

m1miata

" The point being that the BMW Z4 2.5i costs around $14,000 more than the 2006 Pontiac Solstice. "
--end quote--
Yes, we established that the BMW costs more. So, the point being? An Aveo, the little tin can that she be, still has an air bag, side door bars, seat belts, rear view mirror, safety glass........ Cost is $9,995 or something like that. That cost 1/2 as much as the Solstice. I am amazed that some cars do not have air conditioning. Were in the World do they drive to? I guess if you lived in Crescent City, CA, and never left town, you don't need air. What is amazing is that cars, like the New Stang convertible don't seem to even have an option for a roll bar. This is the year 2005, not 1905, get with the modern World.
:shades:
Loren

pao

I guess the point here is the average driver will never have a roll over in his driving experience...the percentage of accidents involving roll overs of cars...I bet is small compared to side front or rear impacts...thus the seatbelts..and the air bags...front side and head ones now....the every day driver doesnt do road courses or race his car on the back roads...those who do...install the necessary safety equipment mandated by the governing body sanctions or by ones own personal decision...

you cant compare the aveo to the soltice..two different cars..to different body styles..two different engines....size etc...all those safety features you mentioned are mandated by the NHTSA and federal law now....a roll bar isnt...for the reason mentioned above....I doubt you will ever see an american car with a roll bar option but that will not stop someone from buying a convertible...with the possible exception of yourself...but you added an aftermarket roll bar....again your personal safety decision......

callmedrfill

It's all a shell game.

GM has earned any scorn it gets. They wait until they are knockin' on heaven's door to make a car worth THINKING about owning, but their track record is so checkered, it makes a poor investment even if it is worth a darn!

You know, it's funny. Where was GM 20 years ago when we need excellent cars, that were powerful yet efficient? Durable yet soft to the touch? Affordable yet exciting? They were taking our cash and giving us back Fieros and Cimarrons and Novas. :mad:

How many times will a buyer (or his family, his friends, his neighbors) get burned before they smarten up and put their money to GOOD USE?

I want to see America have a viable car industry, but look at what we have here? Chrysler is really the only one making something happen, and they need Mercedes help to do it!

I don't know if anyone saw the Autoweek link, but this car reeks of so many stumbling blocks that GM has forced US to trip over.

The design is AWESOME! Inside and out! HATE the exterior styling. Releasing it after the Summer season is a waste, after the marketing blitz targeting a May/June swell of support, only to be let down by poor quality.

The Sky has it all over this model. Plus an air-tight alibi. This car will stumble, while the Saturn will soar Sky-High! Learning from the mistakes of my older sister.

Wouldn't spend a plum nickel over $25k for a Sky. $21k for the Solstice.

And next year $1000 rebates on Solstice, no problem.

DrFill

m1miata

I guess Pontiac did not wish to reuse the Fiero name. Best reserved for the next mid-engined car, if ever produced again. Cool little car. I hope they make a hardtop version of the Solstice. Generally speaking, less costly to make and you don't have the cowl shake / tire shake problems and such. For the cost saving, they can throw in an air conditioner, and couple of goodies for the < $20K price As for pricing, I assume they are pretty sure that the price will not only hold, but go upward on this model. Sure was something though this weekend when I went to a local dealers expecting to see lots of customers, only to find a couple of people looking or buying. For one thing, I saw very few cars. Mainly trucks / SUV on lots these days. Wonder why the G6 was introduced without a 4 banger engine available, and no stick shift. Well, come to think of it, no coupe yet. If they keep the price down around the level of the current price scheme, I may take a look at the coupe when it arrives. Hard to believe gas is around $2.50 a gallon, when you see 4 to 5 times as many trucks and SUV gas hogs on the lots compared to cars. It looks like one dealership increased the number of car to get to this ratio. I mean to tell ya, it was darn near zero count on cars a few months back.
Why do they insist on putting the floor emergency / parking brakes on some of the GM cars?
Loren

beliver

Miata: You ask why GM did this or did not do that? I suspect the top brass are asking themselves some of those very same same questions on the threshold of a monumental 25K lay-off and many plant closings. I bet those facing the end of their GM careers are wondering the same thing too.

Things look so bad now even with the best face MR. Wagner could put on it at the recent shareholder's meeting that I really wonder if GM will be around as a complete entity or broken up and sold off to the highest bidder in the biggest "garage sale" in the history of the automotive business. Those shareholders were bordering on violence and calling for his immediate removal. A definate show of no confidence. Where will they get a "white knight" to pull them out of this mess ? Stay tuned the fun is about to begin @ GM

believer

logic1

You have repeated your position on the roll bar at least 20 times as best I can tell.

Could you possibly stop posting here on the issue so those who want to discuss the Solstice can do so?

Point made. Next issue please.

As for the stuff about GM as a whole, belongs in News and Views.

pao

the entire GM business model is outdated...from management to design to production....however..I have to give unionization, health care costs, pension fund management...and so other just minor issues some blame as well...

maybe they are just took big with too many models/lines..and not enough that appeal to the comsumer these days.....I think all american car manufacturers rode the SUV wave too long....now they are suffering the consequences for not paying more attention to the automobile line......notice how many of the SUVs are on the lots these days....with huge discounts and incentives.....

spyderone

I have been looking at this car since its inception and Pontiac wanted to bring back a basic convertible 2 seater roadster with no frills. There are people who don't want A/C or power package, etc. I have a 1984 Fiat Spyder with no Air, had it since 1988 and I'm alright without one.Anyway here is the comparison:

2006 Solstice 2005 Miata(Cloth Int)

Price Inc Dest $19,995 $22,658
Cylinders 4 4
Engine 2.4L I4 1.8L I4
HP 177@6600rpm 142@7000rpm
Gas Mileage 20 City/28 Hwy 23 City/28 Hwy
Torque 166@4800rpm 125@5000rpm
Valves 16 16

Height 50.1 48.3
Length 157.2 155.3
Wheelbase 95.1 89.2
Width 71.3 66.1
Weight 2860 2447
Cargo(Trunk) 3.8 cu ft (top up) 5.1 cu ft

A/C $960.00 Std
Power Pkg $625.00 Std
Floor Mats $ 60.00 Std

TOTAL $$$ $21,640 $22,658

Hope this gives you a better comparison!!!

spyderone

Sorry the comparison came out like it did. I didn't type it that way, so I'll try again.

..............................2006 Solstice........... 2005 Miata(Cloth Int)

Price Inc Dest ..........$19,995........................ $22,658
Cylinders...................... 4.................................. 4
Engine........................ 2.4L I4........................ 1.8L I4
HP............................ 177at 6600rpm.......... 142 at 7000rpm
Gas Mileage.......... 20 City/28 Hwy.............. 23 City/28 Hwy
Torque.................... 166 at 4800rpm.............125 at 5000rpm
Valves........................... 16............................... 16

Height.......................... 50.1............................ 48.3
Length........................ 157.2.......................... 155.3
Wheelbase................... 95.1............................ 89.2
Width........................... 71.3............................ 66.1
Weight......................... 2860........................... 2447
Cargo(Trunk).............. 3.8 cu ft (top up)............ 5.1 cu ft
..................................1.2 cu ft (top down)
A/C........................... $960.00.......................... Std
Power Pkg................. $625.00.......................... Std
Floor Mats.................. $ 60.00.......................... Std

TOTAL $$$ .................$21,640....................... $22,658

Hope this gives you a better comparison!!!

xkss

Isn't the Lotus Elise available without air conditioning?

Some people may not want it.

xkss

The design is AWESOME! Inside and out! HATE the exterior styling.

That seems like a contradiction.

You like the design inside and out yet hate the exterior styling?

m1miata

If you are comparing the previous model Miata to the new Solstice, figure in big discounts. Have seen prices in the $17Ks on new Miatas. New Miata will have
more impressive numbers. That said, the Solstice is new, new, new and will
likely sell, sell, sell. If Miata beats the Solstice in all the magazine reviews, it would
trim some sales, but would likely still sell well. The Solstice is a bit heavier, which
will not impress some people. Looks like the days when an elbow could easily be
hung out atop the door on your car is about over. Looks like the new Solstice door
window sill is a bit lower than some though. Not as high as say a 350Z where the
people can barely be seen in the car. Sort of expect a turtles head to appear out of
the shell. I hope GM stays with the car more than 4 years.

The Lotus Elise is more of a track car than anything, to answer the question of not
coming with air conditioning. It is a very specialized car, for those that want cornering
power and little else. Going to pay $47K say for a car with a tricked out 1.8liter Toyota
engine like the Celica GTS has. Hope the lift bolt problems are totally corrected. The
HP is 10 more at 190. It is absolutely glued to the road, so that is love affair - total track
performance. Some may even like the looks = a different look indeed! Solstice is of course in a different class of car, yet it should be good fun to drive. Looks wise, judging by the pics, it is a winner. I may consider a hardtop version. Heck, wouldn't a hardtop version sell better?
:shades:
Loren

vanman1

I just saw a racing red Solstice with a black top driving down Queen St. in downtown Toronto. Absolutely beautiful, it was getting stares from everyone. Top was up with 2 guys in it. Had Michigan plates so I'm sure it's a pre-production tester.

The car just has so much more presence than a Miata, I was so surprised to see it, I just gawked until it was out of site. For $20K, this car is a exotic bargoon!

logic1

Cool.

I've read a few other posts from people lucky enough to see one in action. They all mention the car's street presence.

Road testing makes sense. Or maybe the enthusiast magazines were doing road tests?

callmedrfill

I guess that post is for me?

Yes, a car, very often nowadays, can have excellent design, and god-awful styling.

I'm not going to give you the differences between them, but I will let you put it together yourself. Here are some examples:

645ci. Dodge Neon. Honda Ridgeline. Nissan Titan. Pontiac Solstice.

DrFill

bigdaddycoats

Over the weekend and yesterday morning. Top down and top up. Pretty sure it was the same one both times. Looked very sweet!!

kurtamaxxguy

Mallett Cars is apparently offering a V8 powered version of the Solstice later this year. Could be the greatest drifting car imaginable, but...

1. How driveable will this be given the Solstice's relatively light weight?

2. Anything else like it out there, in terms of weight distribution and maximum power?

3. Would potential Solstice owners want this option? How badly?

m1miata

" Mallett Cars is apparently offering a V8 powered version of the Solstice later this year. Could be the greatest drifting car imaginable, but...

1. How driveable will this be given the Solstice's relatively light weight?

2. Anything else like it out there, in terms of weight distribution and maximum power?

3. Would potential Solstice owners want this option? How badly? "
--end quote--
Looks like all their other cars on the website are already available with a V8. Seems
like it would upset the balance on the car. Doesn't have to be 50/50, but why ruin a good thing? So how much HP and what weight is this beast they are going to drop in?
As for people wanting more power, yes - yes indeed. Give people 300HP and they want 400, then 500HP and then, well to the point of endless insanity. The Solstice is not a really light car, but I am sure the stock engine will more more than adequate to speed the car along. At 170, or whatever, HP, the car has more than enough power. It is a bit heavier than a Miata, but is about the same HP or the 2005 Mazda Speed with Turbo. I am sure a 220 or more HP version will soon follow. What they need is a hard top version, and one other thing, I am not suppose to ever mention here again The styling is right on, at least from the photos. Will be really interesting to see the head to head with the Miata. Actually, the car is so interesting looking, it may take away some sales from Euro makes, like the SLK and Z4. Waiting now for the G6 Coupe, which looks pretty neat in pics. Ah, but yet another FWD car. Are other car to be made from the Solstice RWD platform? That's a thought - a good thought

dialm4speed

Got my new edition of M/T today and there's an article about the interior quality not being up to par. So what did they do? Disassembled the finished ones and rebuilt them. Sounds good but what happens to those cars? Will they be sold? or used as test mules. Would you buy one? Also there will be a turbo version Whoo Hoo!

dialm4speed

"Would potential Solstice owners want this option?" Uhhh, Hell Yeah! Now if they could do it for a reasonable price that would be fantastic but they'll run the price up to where it makes more since to buy something else with a V-8. I really think this car needs a serious boost in HP and I'd love to see a V-8 with about 350 HP. That is low but any higher and you start competing with other higher priced models. I'd even go for a V-6 with about 300 HP but the key is keeping the price LOW!

You can NEVER have enough horse power!

m1miata

A Solstice dragster, I guess, would need endless HP :surprise:
The zero to sixty target is suppose to be in the 7.5 second range,
give or take, which is not bad for driving the twisty back roads. Can't
see kids out drag racing a Mustang GT with this car, but ya never know.
I would imagine a V8 engine weight would upset the balance of the car.
Even if you somehow balanced the car back to 50/50, the nimbleness
would be gone. Pontiac/Holden GTO has 400HP for say $30K - there
ya go! Guess that is the least costly 400HP beast to be had. - Loren

spyderone

Pontiac is planning a 240hp turbo version to be released Summer 2006 as a 2007 model and yes other cars/brands will be made from this platform (Saturn Sky). There is also a hardtop planned and a removable hardtop planned for the convertible, based on information that I have read.

wayde

Just got back from running (minneapolis, MN)... a black solstice is stopped at the sign... 2 guys (50-ish) in the car - top down... MN plates on it.... WWAAAAYYYY COOOLL car. Hopefully GM can get the quality right & also the supply

iluvmysephia1

you're right, and now you've seen one in person!

This new Solstice is just what GM needed to pull themselves up and at more even par with the Asian brands.

Can't wait to see one OTR. :shades:

Turn up The Tragically Hip, put the top down and drive, gentlemen. And it's really a Pontiac.

lhess

since she picked up the info at the pontiac dealer. She about died when she found out they are MT only - she can't drive a stick. I have offered to give her driving lessons in my rx8 (let's hope mazda makes a tough clutch) so she can get one and feel confident enough to learn to drive it. It's one of those "Oh my God, did I really offer to do that?" things. But, I figure she'll feel eternally grateful and I'll get to drive it now and again!!!

This is a car I can see myself buying used a few years down the road when I can afford one as a second car. They do look great!!