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Pontiac Solstice

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  • soapwaxshamsoapwaxsham Member Posts: 14
    [randy] > If this thing were a Toyota, I'd snap one up in a heartbeat

    EMM ARR TOO
    ( Except that toyota can't seem to play in this space for less than $25K )

    tC (dull coupe) Celica (ugly coupe) are close - so go get !

    [randy] > MANUAL WINDOWS are standard? Just shows how cheaply they're going with this car to me.

    I hate being forced to pay for worthless auto-features just because 99% of new buyers have been conditioned to see them as signs of luxury/quality - Auto windows add weight, complexity, repair expense, and represent additional points of failure.
  • randyl712randyl712 Member Posts: 29
    To each his own, and I'll concede that some people enjoy using their key (vs keyless entry), hate cruise control, power windows, etc. I just think those people are few and far between. We all know the real reason GM offers the car without these basic features. I'm anxious to see the first reviews of the Solstice, especially the 0-60 and top speed. I'd love to see someone stuff a 6 or 8 cylinder engine (even a GM engine), because this thing sort of looks like a modern Cobra to me - British styling that needs a real kick in the pants powertrain to throw it around.

    This will never be a refined tourer, and I don't think they care. They're competing against cars like the MX-5, which I think is a tough, tough, tough car to compete with, especially now that they just released an all-new version. Time will tell, we'll see.

    But, to say that a new GM car is doing so much better than they used to compared to the competition, is just wrong. People have ALWAYS said that. Every step forward that the big three make, the Japanese made five years ago and are now WAY better. I don't think Consumer Reports is the best auto magazine out there, but Japanese is so far ahead of domestic in terms of quality, it's not even in the same game.
  • soapwaxshamsoapwaxsham Member Posts: 14
    [randy]
    >to each his own, and I'll concede that some people enjoy using their key (vs keyless
    > entry), hate cruise control, power windows, etc. I just think those people are few and
    > far between.

    You were equating choice with poor quality.

    [randy]
    > But, to say that a new GM car is doing so much better than they used to compared to
    > the competition, is just wrong.

    I said that Toyota couldn't make a Solstice, except by charging 5k more. And if, at the end of the day that $5k gets me some sound deadening, softer plastic on the dash and less NVH, maybe I'll opt to save money, look as cool, drive as hard, and refrain from fondling the dash.
  • jhersheyjhershey Member Posts: 18
    [randyl712]
    > I'm anxious to see the first reviews of the Solstice, especially the 0-60 and top speed

    0-60 is 7 sec

    > I'd love to see someone stuff a 6 or 8 cylinder engine

    Mallett Cars is putting in a LS2

    > I don't think Consumer Reports is the best auto magazine out there,

    And you don't like JD Power. Both are consider industry standard benchmarks. So which auto mag is truthful to you? Import Tunerz?
  • randyl712randyl712 Member Posts: 29
    >> [Consumer Reports and] JD Power. Both are consider industry standard benchmarks. So which auto mag is truthful to you? Import Tunerz?

    ROFL. CR is an auto industry standard benchmark? I laugh in your general direction. I'll trust aggregated reports by Car and Driver, Road and Track, Motor Trend and Automobile Magazine. Consumer Reports is reliable when reporting back reliability, because it's based on owner reports over many years and many models. Their auto reviews always show how they're not automobile experts. Take a gander at their used car section they put out in the annual car issue. 99% of the recommended models are Japanese, and 99% of the not recommended models are domestic and European. Guess that is just a coincedence.

    JD Power's new list of Most reliable used cars has over 61% of them being domestic. JD Power licenses their awards to the manufacturers to use in advertising. CR doesn't.
  • adp3adp3 Member Posts: 446
    wait, so is this debate about options or about reliability?

    Randy: I was with you re the options, but I now understand better why the base model isn't loaded with options. I agree that this is not a $20,000 car. It is a $25,000 car. Because almost no one is gonna buy the base model. But that's OK. I don't care if GM IS trying to do what you are implying - I have every confidence in MY ability to determine whether I want to buy the car at the price WITH all of MY options.

    Reliability? We won't know until the end of the first year. If it's as good as the Cadillac CTS it is more than good enough for me.

    ps Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries. ;-)
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    We all know the real reason GM offers the car without these basic features.

    Yes we do. And as I said above, it is for the people who want to tune the car for club racing.

    This will never be a refined tourer, and I don't think they care. They're competing against cars like the MX-5, which I think is a tough, tough, tough car to compete with, especially now that they just released an all-new version. Time will tell, we'll see.

    You are going to have to better explain the point you are trying to make here. Roadsters are not meant to be what I think of when I think refined tourer. Roadster are supposed to be about goat cart like handling, immediate braking, good engine sound, nice road feel.

    I'm anxious to see the first reviews of the Solstice, especially the 0-60 and top speed.

    0-60 will be alright, but if you are looking for stop light to stop light mashing, roadsters are not your car anyway. Convertibles weigh more than hard tops. The best Solstice for this kind of driving will be the forthcoming Solstice Coupe with either the existing 210 hp supercharged 2.0 litre of the forthcoming 240 hp turbo 2.2 litre. The supercharged might be a little better for quick starts than the turbo.

    the MX-5, which I think is a tough, tough, tough car to compete with, especially now that they just released an all-new version

    MX-5 will not be released until September 1, 2005.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Consumer Reports is reliable when reporting back reliability, because it's based on owner reports over many years and many models.

    You started this discussion on reliability. Now you switched to performance car magaines.

    I'll trust aggregated reports by Car and Driver, Road and Track, Motor Trend and Automobile Magazine.

    All of which have run articles very positive about the first tests of pre-production model Solstice tests last year and which, I will predict, will have positive tests about the production Solstice next month or soon thereafter.

    The Solstice. The topic of this thread. Not domestics in general. Not GM in general. The Solstice.

    (By the way, if you look at the current long term testers in all those magazines, the GM vehicles have done just as well as any in the non-scheduled maintenance categories, and better than most in the cost to upkeep)
  • tacoboytacoboy Member Posts: 25
    Looking forward to seeing both these cars. In my mind Pontiac has the advantage on looks but I bet the Mazda ends up being the better drivers car. The MX-5 has a 15+ year head start and I've not seen much bad press on the new car. However, almost all of the recently released GM products have been met with mixed reviews. From Horrible(Ion), to lukewarm(G6), to okay(Cobalt SS). Other than the Corvette I cannot remember a single GM car having it's handling gushed over. Mazda reviews on the other hand all heap praise on excellent handling and balance (MAZDA3,MAZDA6,RX-8,MX-5). If you trust edmunds the MX-5 is also lighter which should further help the MX-5. Since handling is a roadster's primary mission I think most of the major comparos will fall to the MX-5. I hope I'm wrong, it would be great if GM could hit this one out of the ballpark.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    This is not a comparison thread.

    If you will look at the kappa frame, you will see the marked similarities with the Corvette/XLR frame.

    Speaking of XLR, reviewers have in fact consistently gushed over the ride and handling characteristics of that and all the new sigma platform Cadillacs.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Well GM will undoubtedly sell a lot of convertibles, but they could really have sold three times more if they had also introduced a coupe at the same time. A coupe for $18K and a convertible for $20K those in need of a tan, and that open feeling. They need an inexpensive sports car with RWD. Still have not a clue as to why anyone would pay $21K for a Cobalt SS, but it ain't my money, so it really doesn't matter. And the Solstice should include air conditioning for the $20K. I noticed Pontiac did not resurrect the Fiero name. Maybe GM will save it for a mid-engine project Fiero or Corvair. :shades:

    Loren
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    There will be a coupe next year.

    In the meantime, GM cannot make anywhere near enough Solstices to meet demand.
  • pipefitterpipefitter Member Posts: 27
    Last night I got a chance to see Solstice Vin #86 at a local dealer in Lancaster County, PA. It was a black with the steel/tan leather. One sweet looking car!!
    The sales person said that a wife ordered it to surprise her husband (what a dear), only if we were all that lucky.
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    What should MSRP be with ABS, A/C, Monsoon stereo, Power and Convenience packages and no ther options?

    I assume the automatic will be a sport-shift type? Is it expected to have better fuel economy than the manual (taller high gear etc.)?

    I'm surprised that no seat or door-mounted side airbags are available.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    You can get a price on any desired configuration here:

    http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/pontiac/solstice/100529859/prices.html
  • xkssxkss Member Posts: 722
    I think the new Solstice is beautiful. Looks like a classic British sports car. The let-down for me is that it's a GM product. That means that it won't be as reliable, as well-engineered or have the resale value of a comparable Japanese or European model. If this thing were a Toyota, I'd snap one up in a heartbeat. And MANUAL WINDOWS are standard? Just shows how cheaply they're going with this car to me.

    Well, the Pontiac Solstice is so poorly-engineered that it is going to be raced in Grand-Am Cup and SCCA.

    check the link

    Grand American Road Racing Series

    Some people don't care for electronic gizmos that add weight.
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    Since A/C, ABS and power windows and locks are easily available as options, it is not a real "problem." However, it is dishonest contenting to meet the $19995 price point they want to tout in ads.
    They could have easliy had a delete package for hardcore autocrossers and tuners.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Mazda is doing the same thing with the MX-5. The listed base price on MX-5 ads I have seen is the price for the club edition.

    This is not a main stream car. It is a roadster.

    Roadster people have different priority than mainstreamers.
  • tacoboytacoboy Member Posts: 25
    "This is not a comparison thread."

    Sooooorrry! Thought the idea was to generate discussion topics about cars
    that we are excited about. If the Solstice can't compete with it's only competitor it's sunk.

    I suppose you are right about the Cadillacs though in it's only C&D comparo the XLR came in 3rd with comments about it's "weird" steering. Came in 2nd in MT.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    The Solstice wil compare just fine. However, if you want to start a comparo thread you should. If you will read Edmunds rules, you will find that forums dedicated to a single car are meant to provide and share information about the car, and not a forum for subjective arguments.

    Speaking of reading, I've read both those comparos. And in both, the XLR actually did quite well in ride and handling (as have the CTS, STS and SRX). The XLR was found less plush than the significantly more expensive SL.
  • SylviaSylvia Member Posts: 1,636
    The Editors at Edmunds Inside Line are looking to speak with people who have taken delivery of their new Pontiac Solstice. Preference is to talk with people in the greater Los Angeles area, but please email us with your location in any event. Who knows, there may be a little something in it for you too!

    Please respond to rhoman@edmunds.com no later than August 31, 2005.
  • paopao Member Posts: 1,867
    havent seen any discussion on here....with someone having gotten one yet....vin #1 is in Idaho.....one was taken delivery in Syracuse NY and another in Raleigh NC....there are a few others pending this week ..probably best bet to call Pontiac HQ and ask them.....there is another forum for solstice only..,.but no its against the rules to post the link here......most of us are patiently waiting.....last tally is about 500 have been built from the first 1000 early order program cars...from the Apprentice Marketing compaign.....
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Anybody interested in a great review, take a look at GQ.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Hey, it has manual windows! That's fine by me. It is a two door car, and you can reach across it, no doubt, to get the other window, so what's the big deal. If the key is not in the ignition, the windows still roll up or down. There are times when power windows are more of a curse, just like those horrible car alarms, and horn honking devices linked to doors locking. A lot of this stuff, like cruise control, is impossible to use in traffic here in CA. Could use say traction control. Hear that is good in snow --- what is snow like? The Solstice should come with air conditioning though. That is something MOST people need unless they live on the frozen tundra. For the it's size, and having a basic little inline 4 engine, I would think $20K is more than enough to pay for the car with air. Oh yeah, they did forget the roll bar too, so your head is at great risk. That usually costs around $500 to $600 or more once installed -- if there is one that can be made to fit these cars.
    I would wait for the hard top. A good little hard top for say $18K :shades:

    Loren
  • d2000one1d2000one1 Member Posts: 47
    Is there a link to the article or did you read this in the magazine itself?
  • paopao Member Posts: 1,867
    Solstice Steps Out in GQ ... the Solstice on a European tour is featured in the pages of the September issue of GQ magazine. Pontiac had arranged for a GQ reporter and photographer to drive the car in Germany and Italy in June. The result is a four-page story that offers numerous positive comments from the reporter himself about the Solstice, and even details some grudgingly positive remarks from several Europeans who were not used to seeing an American car with a degree of "European" style.

    -"The sleek new Pontiac Solstice is the best-designed (and most affordable) American roadster in decades."

    -"The new Solstice is, in fact hot."

    -"(The Solstice) has what may well be the most beautiful trunk in the history of two-doors."

    -"The Solstice is a throw-back - a rear-wheel drive , five-speed stick - with a sport-minded stiffness that makes the car not so much macho but fun to drive, not an Autobahn car but a backroadmobile."

    -"In Milan, the Solstice made a triumphant entrance down the Corso Buenos Aires pas the Porto Venezia. I felt like Caesar back from the Gallic campaigns."
  • randyl712randyl712 Member Posts: 29
    No positive comments on actually driving the car? Those comments are just about the design, which is admittedly attractive.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Sorry, I get the articles in my email and some do not have URLs. Not supposed to post the entire article but it has great pics. Remember it was eritten by a fashion reporter, not a car guy.
  • adp3adp3 Member Posts: 446
    yes, it would be nice to get some feedback from an actual owner

    I'd expect the early reviews to be typical self-congratulatory gushing. The real facts come out some time later. With such limited production, and the early adopters looking to make a killing selling one for 100k, it might be a while before we get accurate news.

    I know that if I bought one of the first 1000 with a mind toward resale, there's no way I'd be telling you that it had any warts. But I know you guys have more integrity than I do. ;)

    Hopefully the magazines will be accurate. If they can get their hands on one.

    Maybe we'll have to wait for Consumer Reports. (better than nothin)
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    I think (always dangerous with me) that the big 4 buff mags and Edmunds will publish first drives available at the end of this month.

    The Lutz Blog entry following the press test drives was about 2 months ago. Stories in the buff magazines usually take 2 to 3 months to get to press.

    I am not sure why Edmunds and the local news papers wait until about the same time as the buff magazine articles to publish their reviews of new cars. There must be some type of marketing arrangement in the business.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Yes, there is an embargo normally put on all new vehicle articles. Long lead press such as the magazines get to see the cars months ahead of the embargo end date. Short lead such as Edmunds and newspapers gt a few weeks to prepare their articles.
  • adp3adp3 Member Posts: 446
    interesting - thanks for the insight on that
  • xkssxkss Member Posts: 722
    What do you guys think of the fact that the Solstice is going to be raced in Grand-Am Cup?

    Grand American Road Racing
  • tripowergtotripowergto Member Posts: 83
    It should look great racing alongside the new GTO-R's!
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    extended-up high roll bar! Very cool news to have to deal with. :D

    Keep this thread posted with racing pics when they come! It'll look the part, IMO!

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    ????

    I saw nothing there that would indicate the Solstice would be raced in Grand American Racing.

    Would it be in the Rolex Series or the Grand-Am Cup Series (I'm guessing the Grand-Am Cup series in ST class)? Any idea on when they would start?
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    I do not think the Solstice will be involved in racing until the hatch/hard top version is in production.
  • pipefitterpipefitter Member Posts: 27
    Today I got to test drive :shades: the 2006 Mazda MX-5 (I will be able to test drive the Solstice at my local dealer in about twelve or eighteen months). My local dealer got two delivered, the Grand Touring (6 speed) in gray with saddle leather and the Sport in red (6 speed) with black cloth. I tested the Sport, what a fine car!! Lots of get up and go, great handling and little or no wind intrusion into the cabin (you can carry on a conversation at 65 MPH without shouting). Sorry GM, but you dropped the ball again.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Hey pipefitter, how did you reach your conclusion that GM "dropped the ball" when you have not driven the Solstice and there have been no in depth articles or reviews?

    the fact that there are two Mazdas available for you to drive today and no Solstice for 12 months means they are sold out for at least a year. Sounds good for GM here.
  • xkssxkss Member Posts: 722
    before the new Mazda MX-5 went on sale which looks like a bar of soap in comparison to the hot Solstice.
  • xkssxkss Member Posts: 722
    The Solstice won't be raced in the same class as the new GTO.R. Jan Magnussen was one of the drivers who won in a new Pontiac GTO.R recently. Magnussen drove a new Corvette Z06 at the Nurburgring in 7:43.

    GTO.R wins in Grand American Rolex Sports Car Series
  • xkssxkss Member Posts: 722
    I saw nothing there that would indicate the Solstice would be raced in Grand American Racing.

    Would it be in the Rolex Series or the Grand-Am Cup Series (I'm guessing the Grand-Am Cup series in ST class)? Any idea on when they would start?

    check this link

    Solstice in racing
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    Thanks for the link.

    That verifies a couple of things: first, not only will it not compete with the GTO.R, but it won't even be in the same series (GTO.R competes in the Rolex Series, the Solstice will be in the Grand-Am Cup series). Second, the Solstice that WILL be competing will be a coupe version, not the convertible (why? BMW Z3 and Z4 roadsters compete in the ST class; why not a Solstice roadster?)
  • adp3adp3 Member Posts: 446
    still, GM has ONLY sold 10,000 cars. It's not like they moved 100,000 units.

    so what if they sell 10 or 20,000 Solstices. That ain't gonna save the company.

    I'm glad they are offering the car. I'm hopeful that all the reviews are good. But it doesn't mean all that much, by itself. Now if they could translate some of the Solstice good ideas into a mid-size sedan, etc. (that might sell a few hundred thousand units) then we are talkin'

    of course, THAT's a discussion for a different thread

    ps I am THRILLED that the Mazda is a great car. The more competition the better for all of us. If not for the Miata, the Solstice, if it were ever even introduced, would likely be a complete dog.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Oh man. You beat me to the punch.

    I was especially intrigued with the ride more firm than the new Miata, total lack of cowl shake, and responsive steering.

    Also, put the top up, and there apparently is room for weekend luggage for two.

    All very exciting news!
  • pipefitterpipefitter Member Posts: 27
    Here is a car (Solstice/Sky) that the masses want and can't get. Gm is losing money and large sales of the Solstice/Sky would help. One doesn't buy this type of car for high resale, you buy to drive. This is what I meant by "GM dropped the ball". If someone doesn't want to wait 12-18 months, they may go to the Mazda MX-5 for one today.
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    Still not sure how "GM Dropped the ball". The Solstice will most likely outsell the MX-5. Plans are for 20k per year. If you can not wait go but the MX-5.

    There is a limited market for this segment. Just because you produce more, does not mean they will well. GM is smart by holding production at 20k.

    Side note - the issue of Autoweek that goes on sale has the Solstice on the front cover with a first drive review - very positive. It is already on the net if you look on some Solstice forums.
  • nortsr1nortsr1 Member Posts: 1,060
    Pipefitter...
    You better get with the program. They can only build so many units so fast. That 10,000 units number you spit out were units"ORDERED" before it even hit the streets!!!!
    We all realize you love the Miata that you drove...but...then... you criticize the Soltice that you "NEVER EVEN HAVE DRIVEN""". Give it a break, slack off.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    The manufacturing processes that make the Solstice desireable also mean GM can not crank them out the way it might a square sided Malibu.

    In any event, even the most successful roadster is only going to sell in the area of 20k per anum.

    The true benefit to GM from this car is positive press on its quality and fun to drive characteristics. A mindless effort to crank out numbers would most likely harm both.
  • nortsr1nortsr1 Member Posts: 1,060
    Good post...agreed!!!!
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