Subaru Baja

rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
in Subaru
Was just announced at the Detroit Auto Show yesterday. Here's the link to the Subaru Baja site:

http://www.subarubaja.com/index.html


There has been also a large discussion going on over at the "Subaru Crew" over at the "Owner's Clubs," especially in the "Future Models" section.

Bob

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Comments

  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    I think that the Baja is a major disappointment and is likely to prove a major mistake if left in it's present form. Ugly, much to much rear overhang and under powered.

    Ross
  • fernieguyfernieguy Member Posts: 55
    But now I'm pretty disappointed to say the least, No Dual Range tranny, No H-6, No switchback (a pass through doesn't qualify in my world). Doesn't look like there will be an increase in towing capacity either. The lack of a dual range was the real kicker for me though. Style wise I like it, Over hang is a bit much but thats what I expected from a lenghthend Legacy, I'll keep my Forester until something with more utility comes along (for me thats Dual Range, and maybe some more clearance, and power)

    I'd be interested in driving one though.

    Stephen
  • barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
    More power and cleaning up the cladding. I agree a true switchback system would be nice but I don't think it's absolutely necessary for success if the first two items are taken care of. Of course this is just IMHO. :-)

    Stephen
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The Ford Explorer Sport Trac as the Baja's most direct competitor, in that they are both "lifestyle" pickups. However, the approach to appealing to this "lifestyle audience" couldn't be more different.

    The Sport Trac is pure truck, and built off the Ranger Extended Cab platform. They both share the same wheelbase. They also share the same old fashioned part-time 4WD, which does have a low range. It comes with all the virtues and vices that one would assume, coming from a truck platform.

    The same can be said of the Baja, but in reverse, as it comes from a car platform.

    The Sport Trac has, to date, found a good audience. It will be interesting to see how the public, and Sport Trac crowd, will react to the Baja.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    if Subaru will offer a hard bed cover that will lock, and/or a bed cap?

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I know you can get Nudge Bars and protective bars for the Baja at http://www.ecb-usa.com :) At least in that respect it can be somewhat truck-like.


    -mike

  • odd1odd1 Member Posts: 227
    ..as I have seen it called elsewhere; OutBrat.
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    Why the hell all the manufacturers are adding that ugly cladding at the minute, IE. Volvo on the cross country audi on the allroad,subaru on the Baja.

    My wife took one look and said ugly and I am inclined to agree, almost as butt ugly as the aztek, I think subaru has missed the boat here.

    Cheers Pat.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I have *some* cladding on my trooper but not a whole lot and since its mono-tone it isn't even noticeable. Monotone would go a long way to make the cladding not stick out so much.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    it would be monochromatic, as that is the color of the cladding.

    If you go into the web site, it shows you color swatches. When you click on each color swatch, the picture of the vehicle changes color.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    if it has a full-size spare like the Forester, or a donut like the Outback? There certainly should be room for a full-size spare, and I hope that's what it has.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    And silver rocks! :)

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    appear to be from the Outback Sport.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Class I towing. :(

    On the web site, they mention a Class I tow hitch. Bummer... but as expected.

    Bob
  • bkaiser1bkaiser1 Member Posts: 464
    What a mess! Why do auto stylists feel the need to tack on so much crap to a clean design? The cladding on my 01 Outback was almost bad enough to keep me from buying it, and the Baja is flat disgusting. Some things are just not meant to be, and this is one of them. The overhangs on the Outback are already so long that they scrape on everything offroad, and it looks like the Baja might even have a longer rear overhang. To me, the Explorer SportTrac is much better in execution than this (even though I wouldn't buy one with my own money). I love my subaru, but I'd rather see Subaru focus their efforts on bringing the H6 to a wider (and cheaper) range with a manual transmission rather than the Baja mess. Just my reaction...
  • meth1meth1 Member Posts: 4
    I just bought a new Forester and am now thinking I'll replace my Toyota truck this summer. The Baja would have been a top choice if it hadn't come out so ugly. I bet you can't put a half ton of bricks in the back either. What were they thinking?
  • mrk610mrk610 Member Posts: 378
    What were they thinking . Atleast put the h6 in there or the 2.0turbo . I think they are going to be dissappointed.

    mike k
  • 1subydown1togo1subydown1togo Member Posts: 348
    here is a link to The Car Connection on the Detroit intro of the Baja


    http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=4539&sid=176&n=156

    They mention a 3.5 liter boxer 6.

  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    It's a typo, they meant to say 2.5l Boxer Engine.

    -mike
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
  • 1subydown1togo1subydown1togo Member Posts: 348
    Who knows?...it specifically says boxer 6, not boxer 4. Not getting one anyway; Michael is too young to drive!
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Their information is not correct; no 3.5 boxer six. They also indicate it comes with a bed extender. Well it does, but it's an option, not standard.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    No H6 is a surprise, but they may offer it later, for 2004 I bet. I was right about the towing - no change from the Outback. What do I get for winning the pool? ;-)

    You guys are ignoring several pros, though:

    * 5 speed manual availability
    * pass-through
    * bed extender also
    * cladding doesn't ding/scratch as easily
    * lots of standard equipment

    Cons include 4 cylinder only, in a hauler which needs more torque more than any Soob. Class I towing is nothing to brag about, it's the lowest available in any Crew Cab.

    The styling is OK for the market they're trying to reach, if you don't like it you're too old as they say. Give them credit for having the cojones, I really thought they would tone it down to Outback levels.

    Bottom line? Depends on price. For $28k fuggedaboutit. No way it would make my short list. $25k or less and it'll sell, for $23k it would be a bargain.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    (sorry, I hate to keep repeating myself) is that with with the ST-X concept, I saw hope that Subaru was getting serious about offering a vehicle with a bit more more off-road worthiness. It had:

    • A supercharged 2.5L engine, with some serious power.     What the the production Baja get? The base 2.5L, with no other power options.

    • Dual-range tranny. MIA from the production Baja.

    • 1" more ground clearance. MIA from the production Baja.

    • Switchback mid-gate. MIA from the production Baja. Instead it got a pass-through.

    On a positive note:

    * The Baja is better looking than the ST-X. Frankly, I hated the ST-X's styling. To me it's as bad looking as the Aztek. The production Baja, while still not great looking, is much better looking than the ST-X.

    • The rear passenger area is larger on the Baja than it was on the ST-X. That's good.

    I know concept cars are designed to get the public excited, and that many items that we all like will never see the light of day. However, with the Baja, those MIA items could easily made production.

    So the ST-X sent somewhat mixed messages: on one hand it was very exciting, but on the other hand, Subaru had never really had any intention of producing a vehicle with all the good stuff in the first place. So, I see it as a "burst balloon"...

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Give it the H6 and few would be asking for a low range. The H6 has 27% more peak torque than the H4. The H4's low range has 17% gear reduction, or basically the equivalent of 17% more torque.

    So, H6 that bad boy. That's all it would take to make it a good seller.

    -juice
  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Member Posts: 2,721
    Thanks for the link. I think the "Outbrat" looks great from the picture. Not $26,000 great though. I'll buy the Dodge SRT 500hp 150mph pickup instead, if you'll buy the insurance and gas.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Keep in mind that's MSRP. With H4 only, my guess is they'll sell for invoice from day one.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I'd be very surprised to see waiting lists and/or ADMs.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    LOL, no way, no how. Forget it. Any dealer that does that is completely out of his mind.

    Even with the H6, full MSRP at most, and only for a short while.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    it will be interesting to see how Fitzgeralds price it.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They'll put it at $700 off MSRP to begin with, then quickly work their way down to invoice. I guess it depends on how many they get in their first allocation. If they only get 1-2, they may not discount them at all, figuring there is always somebody that wants to be first on the block.

    Once they exist in numbers, they will not sell for MSRP, no way.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    My wife likes the Baja. She thinks it's "cute."

    She's always liked things that were a bit different. That's why we bought the Forester instead of the Outback.

    Bob
  • kate5000kate5000 Member Posts: 1,271
    I remember when Outback was introduced, many thought it would fail because "people who like SUVs will buy a real SUV, and people who like wagons will buy a wagon". However, Outback SUW sold very well, and saved Subaru.

    Then SUS raised some eyebrows, and yet sold reasonably well.

    H6 seemed like a great idea for Outback, yet VDC and LLBean did not sell as well as expected (price issue?)

    I think Craig (c_hunter) made a valid point: what if the market perceives Baja as an Outback SUS with chopped off trunk AND thinks it's a good idea? Then it might sell.

    One thing that worries me: unlike Outback SUW that was a ground-breaker in its class, Baja will have to compete with a few established contenders, such as Nissan Frontier Ext Cab, and others. And in that class customer expects at least 6-cyl, vertical or horizontal.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    There have been car-based "picapes" in Brazil for decades. Even Crew Cabs have existed for ages and ages. They use even the tiniest compact cars as a basis for them - Chevy 500 was Chevette based, Fiat has one based on the Uno, Ford had an Escort and later a Fiesta, and VW used the Fox (Gol/Yoyage/Parati in Brazil). The subcompacts had only a regular cab, but Nissan and Toyota compact trucks have offered crew cabs.

    And they've always sold well, but that's because lots of store owners haul their own stuff. Many light-duty owners exist, that is. Still, many were overloaded to the point of scraping bottom, with major sag in the rear (you ain't seen nuthin' 'til you see those, paisan). I doubt you could get away with that here.

    Now go to the US market, and I'm not sure people are as much into light duty. Everything here is big and heavy, and distances traveled are far as well. Roads are wider and gas is cheaper.

    Will the compact/light duty concept succeed here?

    Some of the pros you have to consider are: fuel mileage, operating costs, insurance costs, reliability, and maintenance costs. Plus it's easier to drive than a truck, and the V6 Crew Cabs C&D and Consumer Reports tested were in the $28k neighborhood, with some exceeding $30k.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The reliability will shoot way down if this vehicle is overloaded on a regular basis. It will most likely be a niche vehicle catering to the "outdoorsy" "yuppie" types who rarely do anything but drive up to vermont to go skiing and the catskills in the summer for a picnic in the back of their baja! :)

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    In that case it will suit them perfectly. Seriously. Question is, how many of them are out there, and will they want a car that is "inexpensive and built to stay that way"?

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Right now all the yuppies are scrambling to save $ since wall street is a mess. No raises for us this year! It may suit them just fine so it *may* end up a winnder, although I think the X-terra may have already snagged all those buyers.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I could see my daughter in a yellow Baja. She goes to college 5 miles from the beach and is into surfing, and she likes yellow. She's finding out that her '92 Prelude (which she loves) doesn't handle a surf board very well.

    Hmmm...

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Actually, given she's a poor college student the H4 is probably even better for her. Less gas money, and she may be able to talk her parents into helping her out, so she can afford it. ;-)

    But for $26k or so, I think more students will just get a Forester L or Outback Sport and slap their board on the roof.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    in an OBS. She wants a blue WRX! Ah... a chip off the old block! :))

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I don't blame her! OBS is a solid choice, especially given her proximity to the beach. Even a TS would do the trick, but the OBS has some nice extras that are worth it.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    from high school, up until two weeks ago, had a 2-year old black Acura Integra with a plus 1 wheel/tire combo. This girl is really into cars, and her dad has some $$, so she had this really sharp-looking Acura. She's obviously had some influence upon my daughter in terms of cars...

    Two weeks ago, while home from college for the holidays, this girl was driving down the road, when all of a sudden the Acura went completely out of control and crashed into a guard rail. It was totaled! Apparently, when she did the wheel/tire modification she should also have changed the shocks, which she didn't do. As a result something catastrophic happened to the front suspension.

    I went and saw the car at the body shop a few days later. The front end was sitting on the ground, as if there was no front suspension. the right front wheel was shattered. Both front wheels were turned in the same direction, but at different angles, suggesting that they were no longer connected. The rear passenger area was severely damaged.

    Fortunately, nobody was seriously injured. The front passenger (another close girl friend) was banged up a bit. And the best news, five minutes before this accident occurred, my daughter was with them, and could easily have been in the back seat, but decided not to go with them.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    A Plus One shouldn't require anything too drastic. The stock suspension should have been able to handle it.

    You sure it wasn't a Plus Three or something like that? Those are common.

    Whew, glad she didn't go!

    Does the Baja have side-impact air bags?

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The tires had very small sidewalls.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Let's see, I think 15" wheels were standard, and 17" rims are very popular, so I bet it was. If the stock wheels were alloy, there's a good chance the bigger rims were 20% heavier or so. That's a lot of unsprung weight to be flying around over bumps, so yeah I can see how the shocks would be overwhelmed. She should actually have gotten springs and shocks, matched to the weight of the new wheels.

    Were they chrome? Those are real heavy.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    She had the top-of-the-line Integra GS.

    I knew those tires were trouble from the get-go. You couldn't load up the trunk without the tires rubbing the fenders. She was told to do some suspension modifications, and she never did it.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I wonder if the All-Weather-Package will be available on the Baja? There was no mention of it on the web site.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Either way, the 17" rims she got were probably heavier than stock. That's why I weighed mine before putting them on (they weigh no more than the smaller steel rims did).

    Now, if she was rubbing, did she have lower springs? Or worse, cut springs? Or were the tires too tall or wide, so they'd rub like that?

    Either way, that wasn't a well sorted suspension. Generally Honda and Acura use very small wheels for their cars, so plus sizing means you have little tolerance for error.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    were too wide. I agree, the suspension was not properly set up. This is a "classic" example of what can happen if someone just sets out to make the car look "cool." I've often wondered, with all the "slammed" Hondas, etc., that I see out there, if they are not, in fact, screwing up the car, rather than improving it.

    Bob
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