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oil changes

2

Comments

  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    Work fine, a little messy but work fine.
  • gottulagottula Member Posts: 1
    My 2001 Accord EX is going to need it's first 7,500 mile oil change in a couple months. I was thinking of taking it to a Jiffy Lube for convenience since I've always gone there with my "American" cars. Is this a good or bad idea? The dealer really pushes having it changed there so the "special" Honda oil filter can be used. Do the "quick oil" places stock those special filters? They are much more convenient time wise vs. sitting at the dealer.
  • mrdetailermrdetailer Member Posts: 1,118
    But I really doubt that Mobil 1, or Purolater One filters are lower quality.

    I would also recommend paying the few extra dollars for a synthetic blend. A blend wi 20% syn gives 80% of the anti-wear benefits.

    Come to think of it since it's a new car and you go 7500, get a good synthetic. Keep the interior of that new engine clean. I've used Quaker State Synthetic in one car and it has performed admirably. Barely changed color after 6000 Miles and consumes less oil. Starts easier in the morning too.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    We bought a 2002 Kia Sedona minivan last week. The owners manual provides a "normal maintenance" and "severe maintenance" schedule, with the typical descriptions of each ("severe" is frequent short trips, dusty conditions, etc.).

    The strangest thing: The recommended change interval for the filter is twice as long as for the oil! I have never heard this sort of recommendation.

    The Normal maintenance schedule calls for engine oil change every 7,500 miles and oil filter every 15,000 miles. The Sever schedule is 3,000 for oil and 6,000 miles for filter.

    That is different everything else I've heard about oil/filter changes. Most people change filter and oil at the same time, or they may change the filter twice as often. But not the other way around! Can anyone think of a good reason for this?

    I haven't decided how often to change the oil and filter in this new Sedona, but I will definitely be more "aggressive" than Kia recommends in my owners manual.
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    I also read your other post in the engine oil post. To me the every other change of filters is BS. GM used to make that recommendation and maybe still does. This practice is especially problematic if you are using the higher efficiency filters (IMHO). As far as the oil change interval and type? Since you use Mobil now why not just extend the drain interval somewhat if money is a factor? I believe you said you have 3 vehicles and that's another reason to extend the drain interval.
    You can safely use Mobil 1(or other good syn) 10W-30 all year around based on the low pour point for syns. Several winters ago we had some mornings with minus 10 to 20 F. and I had no problem with 10W-30. With 10W-30 you have no Viscosity Improvers and thats a good thing. By using the one oil you would simplify things. You can safely go up to the 7500 mile interval or 6 months with no problem and if you want to extend it in term of months or milage you will have enough oil receipts to do some "creative" maintenance records for warranty purposes.

    Later,
    Al
  • brorjacebrorjace Member Posts: 588
    gottula, The original Filtech, made-in-the-USA OEM Honda filters are very good, but they are being replaced with an OEM filter made in Canada by Fram which is not very good.

    In other words, I used to use OEM Honda filters but now I have switched.

    Bludevils, That "replace the filter every other time" stuff has been around for a while. My 1986 Escort recommended the same thing. I think it goes to Tsjay's comments about filters being greatly over-engineered for what we use them for. BUT the dirtiest oil is in the filter and for $3-5, it should be changed along with your dirty oil.

    Remember, car companies don't want your car to last forever.

    --- Bror Jace
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    Surprisingly I have this every other filter recommendation on my twin turbo a 1997 with a suggested 5000 mile change with dino.. Strange, I change oil and filter at 5000 with synthetic, however, this does work out to be only once a year.
  • tntitantntitan Member Posts: 306
    I have been reading for what seems like days all of the discussions about dino oil, synthetic oil and all of the different filters. I have a 4 cyl 2000 Accord with 27,000 miles and have changed the oil and filter religiously every 3,750 miles as recommended by the owner's manual for severe driving conditions. My office is only 5 miles from the house and I make a lot of short stop and go trips which I realize is very hard on my engine. I have decided that the convenience of having someone else change my oil is not worth the extra cost and possible risk of using an inferior oil filter. Since I am going to do it myself I am changing to Mobil One 5w-30 and the Purolator Pure One filter. Where can I get my oil tested that I am replacing?

    I want to test this oil and compare it to the Mobil One when I replace it to see the difference. I am considering going for 7,500 miles (regular non extreme driving conditions manual recommended interval) and if there is a negative difference in the quality of my oil then trying changing the filter after 3,750 miles and retesting the oil.

    I was wondering what you "experts" think of this plan? Also, since I am an automotive idiot, what am I looking for in this oil analysis? How much should the analysis cost?
  • doitmyselfdoitmyself Member Posts: 24
    How much fun it is to study all these posts and know that there are others out there as cracked as I am! It's really too bad that some REAL research (replicated, non-bias, correct statistical analysis, etc.) isn't carried out to confirm our questions on oil, filters, etc.. So much of the evidence presented here is anecdotal.

    Bror - just for fun, I wish to challenge your "dirtiest oil in the filter" statement. Think about it - the filter is just another collection place in the whole engine oil system. The entire gallon of oil in a car should be more or less equal in cleanliness since it all circulates through the system. The filter only collects particulates on/in the media. It doesn't collect moisture, acid, or other combustion chemicals. So, the oil in the filter is about as dirty as the oil anywhere else.

    That said, I agree that the cost of a filter doesn't warrant not replacing it at every oil change.

    Have a good week end everyone.
  • opera_house_wkopera_house_wk Member Posts: 326
    I remember that statement too. It would have implied that some contaminants can't pass through the filter yet never stick to the filter element. My used filter study is still in the early stage. As I have said before, I have seen very little visible build up collecting on the filter media. Another surprise is that I don't see any build up on the bottom of the filter case. Gravity is one of the best filters around. Think about it. The things you want to keep out of the engine will always sink to the bottom of the filter. And where are many bypass valves located.
  • zr2randozr2rando Member Posts: 391
    Easy to check, and by definition it SHOULD be.
    After removing the filter, just set it upside down over a funnel over a mayo jar, assuming that the antibackflow valve is working the oil will filter through the paper and drain out the center hole. Then move to a second mayo jar and use a toothpick to wedge into the antibackflow valve and let THAT oil drain into the second mayo jar.
    The function of that filter is to catch physical objects only and those particles will collect on that dirty side of course and you can see that the oil is thicker, you would assume that the dirt is all in the paper but it doesn't seem to do exactly that, but it does stay on the dirty side inside that can. Probably a small difference when comparing with your eyes only, but it is that way, those particles do settle out, ever notice that your dipstick oil may look fairly clean but after running engine and draining the oil looks MUCH darker than it looked on the dipstick,, It is really impt to run the engine and let the oil pick up any sediment before draining.
    As for the bypass valve, if the filter has one in the end away from the holes (FRAM) then yes whenever the bypass opens it lets that dirty oil flow right past the filter and back into the motor...bad design and Doitmyself is correct. If the bypass is at the end with the holes then it only lets the new incoming oil bypass and continue to the motor.dirty oil stays in the outside area of the can...acceptable
    Not all filters have bypasses so that is not always an issue.
    Good Morning y'all
    Rando
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    What was said about the color being lighter when the oil is warm and darker when cold is correct but not sure that it is due to contaminants settling in for the winter. Why, I don't think most dipsticks go down into the pan far enough so that if the contaminats settled to the bottom they would not show on a dipstick as this never gets near the bottom. If the settlement theory were correct th eoil in the pan would be lighter on top and darker at the bottom.Not sure that this is correct
  • zr2randozr2rando Member Posts: 391
    If you check the oil in the morning, after the oil has sat all night, the dipstick may look good because the dirtier heavier oil is settled at the bottom of the pan, then if you crank it up and run it until warm, it will pick up any sediment in the pan and suspend it better (still staying in the dirty side of filter and in the pan and then drain out better...if you ever ever wipe a q-tip inside the drain hole you will see some sediment on the bottom of the pan...thats the stuff I'm talking about, not much but if there is any sediment that's where it is.
    see ya
  • doitmyselfdoitmyself Member Posts: 24
    Thanks for the dirtiest oil in the filter rebuttal. Your answers make sense.

    Now, just a tiny bit off the subject - any opinions appreciated. I'm trying to develop a practical maintenance schedule for my three John Deere diesel farm tractors. I only put about 150 hours a year on them. The old manuals used to say change the oil spring and fall as a minimum. The newer tractor manuals say to change the oil and filter every 250 hours or at least once a year. My current practice is to change the oil and filter in the spring and then only the oil in the fall - they hold ten quarts, so the small amount left in the filter doesn't concern me and the filter only has been used 1/3 of it's rated life.

    I tried contacting the John Deere company - they refuse to give any answers except "develop a good relationship with your local dealer - he's trained - listen to him. Well, you guessed it - the dealers all have their opinion - one says change the oil twice a year, the other says a once a year change interval if perfectly legitimate, especially if you use their "higher quality" filters and their J.D. better oil (they say I can increase change interval 50% with their Plus 50 oil.

    So, my question is - Have oil and filters improved that much in the past ten years that it is o.k. to leave oil/filter in an engine for an entire year if you are way below the recommened change interval - in my case 150 hours versus 250 (375hrs. if I used their oil.)????? I live in the lake states with variable weather. Won't there be lots of condensation, additive break down, etc.?

    Thanks for any helpful opinions.

    P.S. I also have a 17kw generator with a 4 cyl. Ford engine - they also recommend a one year oil change interval. Why are cars 3 months/ 3,000 miles?
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    I took a sample today which I will mail in Monday on oil and filter that have been on the car exactly one year and 5022 miles. I put so few miles on this TOY that I just go once a year. When I purchased this used the oil had been in the crankcase 1 1/2 years and had about 4000 miles on it using Mobil 1. The analysis came back beautiful. Second one done at another 4900 miles but shorter interval and that was fine also. I will let you know the results of this most recent one year and fitler oil change. Now, when I start the engine I do try to drive at least 10 miles to really heat it up.

    So, I think one year is fine unless you are into a very dusty usage, plowing fields etc. may ceate a lot of dust.
  • hlltdhlltd Member Posts: 61
    I use Blackstone Laboratories:

    (http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

    But there are others as well.

    I like Blackstone because they will send you the sample kits, and it is relatively simple. Get on their website, and everything is explained.

    Cost is not too bad at $18.50, and postage is $1.49, so for about $20 total, you've got your answer. BTW, tell the nosey Post Office type that you are sending a "soil" sample in for analysis, else they will want you to package it differently which costs more, maybe account 9 11?

    Good luck.

    DHG
  • alternatoralternator Member Posts: 629
    "Common Knowledge" says that draining engine oil is best done with a hot engine because any particulate matter will be in suspension in the oil and will flow out easier.

    It seems to me that there is so much area up inside the engine for the old oil to cling to, that it would be more reasonable to wait until the engine is almost cold to allow time for more of the oil to collect in the oil pan before draining. Then, it might be prudent to pour a fresh quart of oil through the engine to flush the pan itself more thoroughly.

    Has anyone seen any scientifically proven evidence that oil should only be drained while hot? Hot oil is certainly messy, and also a real safety hazard.
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    if we are looking to the rear of the car (1988 -1991 Camry V6), it is clockwise, because of orientation. Technically, if we were facing the drain plug itself, say the car was on a lift, then it's counter-clockwise (lefty-loosey; righty-tighty).

    Another example, you're facing a person -- you raise your right hand, that persons sees a left hand (from his/her perspective). Hope that clears it up a bit.

    Use a 14mm socket, it's less confusing
  • opera_house_wkopera_house_wk Member Posts: 326
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    Well overnight or not is not worth arguing about. Your assumption is incorrect but not worth the hassle to discuss. So, do the 10 minute drain and be happy!
  • spokanespokane Member Posts: 514
    Allowing the crankcase to drain for several hours is not practical for many people but there is a another benefit associated with waiting two or three hours if you can. The wait will allow the oil in the old filter to cool and contract. On engines with a horozontal filter mount, the cooling and contraction will often be sufficient to allow the anti-drainback valve to retain all of the old oil in the filter - resulting in no spillage when the filter is removed.
  • ywilsonywilson Member Posts: 135
    www.motor-oil-bible.com

    It looks like there is some really good information there. Just thought I'd pass the word along. I found it looking at another website. Seems like some good information for those of us concerned.
  • bobistheoilguybobistheoilguy Member Posts: 270
    if you're looking for information on oil and such, all that info is free on this site and you don't have to pay for it.


    http://www.bobistheoilguy.com

  • wa3morewa3more Member Posts: 4
    thanks, 8u6hfd.
  • opera_house_wkopera_house_wk Member Posts: 326
    It all sounds like "cramming for finals." They wait too long to change the oil and then try little tricks to redeem themselves. I prefer those willing to defend their position. Like adc1000. He doesn't like to change oil, so he buys the best oil, the best filter and changes it once a year. I can't argue with someone who has thought things out and come up with a plan.
  • aurora5000aurora5000 Member Posts: 168
    AS LONG AS YOU DO IT.....
  • aurora5000aurora5000 Member Posts: 168
    Is you just do it...
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    and they normally get 100,000 miles out of a car, unless they own a gelled Toyota that is.
  • ywilsonywilson Member Posts: 135
    I have been on your site a few times already and must say you have a very informative site. I was just passing along something I found. On oil changes, I am using Amsoil 5w-30 in my truck and with Amsoil SDF filters. The large size. I change my oil every 5,000 miles. The truckis still under warranty so I have to stay under the recommended 7,500 miles which my dealer told me by the way was not something he would follow!! Go figure. I am totally convinced of synthetic oils benefits, as well as the ability to stop using petrolium based oils to cut our demand from foreign suppliers. That in itself is enough for me. I live in DC so the demand on engines here while sitting in traffic is very high. I need and use the best because my vehicles have to last.
  • ywilsonywilson Member Posts: 135
    Can anyone tell me about the Royal Purple brand of oil? I have seen it and been on thier web site. I think the oil they use for street machine is not fully synth. Checked out thier product line and they said "you could use one of thier racing oils if you wanted pure synthetic".
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    I've heard nothing but good remarks about Royal Purple oil.

    I would advise against the Racing oil, since it may be similar to Redline Oil, where its racing oil does not contain any detergents. Because many of these engines run at such a high operating temperature, the detergents may thermally break-down, and run the risk of damaging the engine.
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    Concur, not sure it is synthetic base and overpriced and hard to find.

    RedLine is fine with their normal synthetic line and Mobil 1 is by far the most convenient
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    Seriously, when is the last time you heard of a car engine causing a problem that might have been prevented by keeping the oil cleaner?

    I hear a lot more complaints about other components failing - like automatic transmissions, front struts, CV joints, air conditioners, alternators, power steering units, fuel injection systems, and so on. Changing the oil does nothing to help the longevity of these components.

    In the old days, engines were not made as well, and you would see burned out main bearings and things like that. The other parts of the car, like the 2-barrel carburetor and the three-on-the-tree tranny, were not that complex.

    Now, the other parts are very complex and expensive to repair. When they all start to fail, most of us get rid of the car even thought the engine is mechanically in very good shape.

    Of course, I still get my oil changed every 4000 miles.

    Bob
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    One can use the cheapest Sj or Sl rated oil and the cheapest filter you can find or even find a way to not have a filter and your engine (not necessarily car) will go 100,000 plus miles IF YOU CHANGE THE OIL EVERY 3000-4000 miles. That's IMHO.

    Few people (by that I mean as a percentage of car drivers) keep a car over 80,000 miles. We will hear a ton of people that do but if we look at entire population (what is ave age of all cars on the road, 8 years I think) that is normally under 100,000 miles.
  • gslevegsleve Member Posts: 183
    federal gov't is 12yrs or 128,000 miles
  • opera_house_wkopera_house_wk Member Posts: 326
    A friend gave me an oil filter to take apart from his classic muscle car and the oil was as dirty as I have ever seen. He had less than 100 miles on the oil and he changes it twice a year! I had an old beater 75 Ford Pick up that I bought for $300 and drove it for 11 years/70K. A constant leaker, I filled it with oil I drained from my other cars. Sure it sludged, but I never had to remove the valve covers till the oil return holes clogged. The PCV valve was located in the front and every time I stopped quick it generated a cloud of smoke. The pool of oil would rush to the front and then get sucked up by the PCV valve. The bearings knocked in this old 302 but it still ran great when I got rid of it at 275K. And only cause it had to go in for emissions testing. I buy high mileage repo cars at auction and I don't worry about the oil issue. Mainly because the cars I buy have a "low tech" engine. If you have a 4 quart capacity engine, you really need to worry about changing oil more often.
  • mrdetailermrdetailer Member Posts: 1,118
    With changing every 3-4K you can get at least 150K out of the engine, even on the poorest made engine. Even with the Dino.

    Now on your second issue if you said 80% keep only to 80,000 miles. While many do that, I think that the 80% figure would be like my father who keeps to 100K then sells.
  • ywilsonywilson Member Posts: 135
    I got rid of a SAAB 9000 Turbo that had 285,000 plus miles. I was religious about oil changes every 5000 miles and only used synthetics due to the turbo. When I got rid of it the turbo was still good and the original I might add. Yes, oil changes make a difference. I agree that most people don't keep thier cars for the full life expectancy of the car but I am not that person. I keep them till they die or my wife insists on a newer vehicle.
  • haspelbeinhaspelbein Member Posts: 227
    "...or my wife insists on a newer vehicle."

    This is the one reason why I will never be able to keep a car for that many miles, no matter how religious I am about service. I can just hope that whoever buys my cars will be appreciative.
  • brorjacebrorjace Member Posts: 588
    Still, using synthetic oil only costs another $10-20 per year MAX ... assuming you extend your drain interval but at least 50%.

    So, why NOT use it?

    And, few of us that participate in this forum qualify as 'average'. My car is at 115,000 miles and looks and drives like a much newer car.

    --- Bror Jace
  • pepper50pepper50 Member Posts: 195
    I was just curious what kinds of experiences you all have had in taking your own oil (such as synthetic Mobil 1) to a dealer for a scheduled oil change. Are they usually receptive to this, and do they give a discount over their usual charge since you furnish the oil? I'm also wondering how you can be sure they actually used your expensive Mobil 1 and didn't rip you off. At the quick lube places you can at least watch what the workers are doing. I know the safest thing is to change it myself, but I don't have optimal facilities. Thanks for comments.
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    for it.
  • suvshopper4suvshopper4 Member Posts: 1,110
    A sibling just told me that she overfilled her oil (and since has drained it and refilled it to the proper level). Someone told her to add a capful of brake fluid to help, I don't know, 'revitalize' the seals.

    Anyone ever heard of this before? Does it work?

    Thanks.

    -ss4
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
  • mulfomimulfomi Member Posts: 56
    I came across an electric pump that uses your car batter for power to suck the oil out of your oil pan through a tube that goes in the slot where the dipstick goes. I know these exist but this one was $10 and it just seemed to me that this would be more expensive than that. Plus I would rather not use my battery, but plug it in. Is this the normal price for something like this or is this a cheap piece of you know what and I should look elsewhere for this pump (it was a Meijers)?

    Also, for those who use this type of pump, do you change your oil the "old fashioned way" at some interval just to make sure the oil at the very bottom of the pan gets picked up? Any problem with the oil viscosity regarding the pump being able to handle it?

    Thanks for any responses.
    Mike
  • opera_house_wkopera_house_wk Member Posts: 326
    I have about a $70 one that I use to pump the oil out of marine engines. Even with the oil is very warm, it is a slow process. My old marine engines have a 1 1/2" filler neck and new Mercury engines have a screw fitting so you don't have to insert a tube. On a car, tube would have to be less than 1/4 inch. That would be painfully slow. On your car would it go to the lowest spot? Even my good pump is a pain to use and a maintenance item. The nice thing about a drain is that it creates a flow that will take some sediment and sludge out.
  • zr2randozr2rando Member Posts: 391
    The nice thing about a drain is that it creates a flow that will take some sediment and sludge out.

    That is a big detail about draining oil, plus doing it while hot helps even more.
    I would NOT recommend pumping out engine oil unless there really just is no other way (like a boat motor probably,,,I can see that being tough to drain out from the bottom,,,,glug glug)
  • vwracervwracer Member Posts: 90
    Spend the $10 bucks on a set of ramps and drain the oil from the oil pan. The ramps will never wear out and in 20 years or so you can give them to the grandkids.
  • doitmyselfdoitmyself Member Posts: 24
    if everyone in the U.S. switched to synthetic engine oil and extended their drain intervals, what would be the economic pros and cons? How much oil would we save? How much less waste oil to handle? How many less Jiffy lube employees? How much better for the environment?

    Just wondering.
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