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CR-V vs Escape

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  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Yeah right, can you imagine what would have happend if the NHSTA did issues a recall?? Honda is covering up here bud... Politics play a key role here.. ya think?
    Why didn't this fire issue happen in prior model CRV's? Doesn't the Uglyment, oops, I mean Element have the same engine? Why doesn't it happen or didn't it happen on the Element? Design flaw.. I have to give Honda a kudos on not getting this to be a recall. Can you imagine on what CRV sales would have done?? can you say tank??? :surprise:
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    You can post prices off the net all you want. These are not real world prices found in the paper or what you can bargain at the dealership. I can give you 3 Ford Dealerships offering 4x4 XLT Escapes with V6's! for about 20K! Heck I paid 21,800 for my 01 4x4 V6 XLT.. I have running boards and tow package also!
    Nice try though. Anyone knows Honda doesn't deal, Honda's are spendy. This is no secret if you know the car market.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    I have to tend to agree with you. I am not finding anything about Ford/Mazda doing anything for the Escape/Trib/Mariner in any sort of upgrade in the years ahead. This just tick me off! Ford/Mazda did a great job with this vehicle. This market segment is one of the fastest growing ontop of that! Heck, even the Saturn VUE has been given a face lift!
    All I can see are small improvements to the Escape/Trib/Mariner. I foresee some sort of traction control/stability control in the next couple of years.. along with some sort of special packages of some sort.... But as far as a face lift??
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    These are old.. seen these posted on another chat and here at Edmunds about 2 years ago???
    You obviously don't know my background or where I reside... I take my Escape into the Cascade Mountain range. Ever heard of it? Ever heard of MT Hood? MT ST. Helens? or MT Jefferson area? These are some of the tallest in the Continetal United States if you don't know... I take my Escape up skiing, to finding my favorite fishing spots, too towing my two watercraft visiting the beautiful lakes we have in this region. My Escape has been on more logging/access roads... Granted, I know this vehicles limitations. I am not willing to chance twisting my car frame. I would no-way claim this vehicle to be an "offroader". But I can say I have been worse places than these photo's you offer.. I know I can bet my house I have had my Escape put through more tests than many of these CRV owners on this board. And even through all this pounding my "unreliable" Escape has 60,000 trouble free miles on it! Yup, Ford can't make great vehicles.. You would have a hard time convincing me...... ;)
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    It didn't happen to either the Accord or the Element, because both are manufactured here in the US. The issue with the CR-V had to do a defective O-ring for the oil filter. The ring swelled up when exposed to the humidity and salty air that is an inherent part of overseas shipping.

    But you already know all that. You just keep posting the same garbage over and over, even when you know it's false.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Why didn't this fire issue happen in prior model CRV's?

    You may be interested in the now archived Honda CR-V engine fires discussion. :)

    tidester, host
  • phastphil1phastphil1 Member Posts: 24
    "> It didn't happen on the eralier models because the engine was mounted differently. Starting with redesign in 02 the engine was rotated 180 degrees.
  • dromedariusdromedarius Member Posts: 307
    Everytime I think we are making some progress and talking about relevant issues, we get drug back to the same old, unsubstantiated claims from years ago, getting repeated over and over by the same people. It's almost fun...

    :sick:
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    " These are not real world prices found in the paper "

    LOL.....Real world prices in the paper? LMAO......Haven't we been down this road before?
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    " But you already know all that. You just keep posting the same garbage over and over, even when you know it's false. "

    Thank you.....You beat me to it.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    CR-V vs Escape does not mean pile on 'scape!' Let's stick to the real topic.

    tidester, host
  • dromedariusdromedarius Member Posts: 307
    I think it is important to determine which vehicles are the best in the class at what, and which attributes mean the most to me. Here's what I determined when I was in the market:

    Fastest Acceleration: Saturn Vue

    Most HP: Saturn Vue

    Most Torque: Jeep Liberty CRD.

    Most Interior Room: Honda CR-V

    Lowest Initial Price: Kia Sportage/Hyundai Tucson

    Lowest TCO: Honda CR-V

    Highest Resale: Honda CR-V

    Longest Warranty: Kia Sportage/Hyundai Tucson

    Best MPG Rating: Toyota RAV4

    Best Offroader: Jeep Liberty (any model)

    Highest Tow Rating: Jeep Liberty

    Most Standard Safety Features: Honda CR-V and Kia Sportage/Hyundai Tucson

    Best Reliability: Toyota RAV4 and Honda CR-V

    I could be wrong on a couple of these, but these are the class leaders to the best of my knowledge. For me, safety, mpg, reliability and long term resale value were the most important factors. That's why I chose the CR-V. Do you notice anything about this list, though??? The Escape isn't the best at anything. It's pretty good at a lot of things, but most people have a few specific things they are looking for in a vehicle.

    That's what the Escape's biggest problem is. It's grown rather long in the tooth, and many of these vehicles have been redesigned at least once since the Escape was introduced, and in some cases, they will have been redesigned twice in the next year. In a market as crowded as this market is, you can't afford to stand still. The new Kia/Hyundai, Suzuki Grand Vitara, CR-V, RAV4, and others won't let you. This is symptamatic (sp?) of Ford's problems as a whole, and it's one of the main reasons they are having trouble selling cars and maintaining the resell values of those cars. It won't be long, and the Escape is going to become a non-factor.

    :cry:
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    What??!! Engine rotated 180degrees@! Is this true? Can anyone else confirm? I wonder why all the CRV owners didnt' know this?? varmit? steve? drom? Why didn't you come forward with this information?? :confuse:
    Engine fire's are just gaskets huh? If this hold true the engine was rotated 180 degrees.. DESIGN FLAW...
  • dromedariusdromedarius Member Posts: 307
    While we're throwing stones, why don't we put it out there that the accelerator sticks on the No Escape and the rear hatch flies open, which wouldn't be so bad, except the seatbelts fail. It also stalls, the fuel leaks and starts the vehicle on fire, and the steering wheel falls off. Talk about design flaws!!! It's all over the internet. Why have prisons when we can stick convicts in a vehicle where the accelerator sticks, the seat belt fails, the rear hatch flies open, it starts on fire and the steering wheel falls off???

    :confuse:
  • dromedariusdromedarius Member Posts: 307
    I am fully aware Honda rotated the CR-Vs engine, and I also know why. It's rather simple, actually, why they did it, but I'm not going to bother trying to explain the engineering reasons behind it. What I don't understand is rotating the engine would cause the factory to make the gasket incorrectly AND cause the person changing the oil to neglect to insure the gasket was removed along with the filter???

    :confuse:
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Depending how you want to classify the competition, I'd put the turbo Forester at the top of the pack when it comes to acceleration. Nothing else comes close. I'd also award a best handling category, which would probably go to either the RAV4 or the Forester.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Yes, Scape, it's true. But it probably doesn't mean what you think it means...

    From 1996 through 2001, the CR-V used a variant of Honda's B series engine. The B series is the same family of engines used in the Civic. In order to make this small block work in the CR-V, Honda developed a new manufacturing technique. The crankshaft in these engines rotated counterclockwise. That's the way Honda did things for many years. A while back they decided to reverse the rotation, so they could sell engines to other companies (most others go clockwise). As I'm sure you're aware, Saturn took advantage of this change when they gave the VUE Honda's 3.5L V6.

    In 2002, Honda switched to a new series of engines. This is a whole new family of engines, named the K series. The first of the K series engines are the ones used in the Acura RSX. Variants of the K-series engines may be found in the Accord, Element, and TSX, as well as the CR-V. These engines rotate clockwise. Hence they are mounted in the engine bay 180 degrees from the old design.

    This has absolutely nothing to do with the O-ring issue.
  • dromedariusdromedarius Member Posts: 307
    varmint - You are probably right in regards to handling. I think it is a valid category, but I didn't know enough to make a judgment.

    Also, in regard to Honda "hiding" the great CR-V scandle, or as it's known by people in the know, "Firegate," I find it funny that it has been predicted by a poster or two that Honda will go out of business in 10 to 15 years, and its been pointed out that Ford sells more F150s than Honda sells total vehicles, yet Honda has the political, marketing and economical sway to consistently hide all its shortcomings and pull the wool over peoples' eyes. It's amazing, when you think about it. A company, on the brink of disaster, spending all its manpower and capital resources to keep from undergoing a recall...

    :confuse:
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    What??!! Engine rotated 180degrees! Is this true? Can anyone else confirm? I wonder why all the CRV owners didnt' know this?? varmit? steve? drom? Why didn't you come forward with this information??
    Engine fire's are just gaskets huh? If this hold true the engine was rotated 180 degrees.. DESIGN FLAW...


    The previous generation of Honda engines, B and D series rotated counter clock wose and had the pulleys on the driver's side. Starting with the K-series engines, particualrly K24 (Accord, Element, CR-V, TSX) and K-20 (Civic Si, RSX, and RSX Type S), then engines are turning like the rest of the engines, clockwise, and have been turned 180°. Anyone familiar with Honda knows that.

    On the B, and D engines the intake was on the firewall side and exhaust was near the radiator. On the new K-series (the same engines that make Ford V6 look humble in 0-60 tests) have intake on the radiator side and the exhaust on the firewall side.

    The reason Accords and Elements did not have engine fire problems because they were assembled in the US, while CR-V's are assembled in UK and Japan. The underlying cause was that defective gaskets deteriaoted when exposed to sea water mist on the 6 week voyage from Japan or UK.

    Honda resolved the problem, by replacing the filters on existing unsold stock, and by using new filter gaskets on newly built ones It is not a design flaw. A design flaw would be to have a 3 liter V6 lose to 2.4L I4 .

    Seems Scape is the only one who tows 3000 lbs boat to and from work, everyday. The rest of us don't. Maybe Scape should have gotten an F-350 Duramax???

    Honda V6 runs cirlces around Duratec V6 in the Escape.
  • me3me3 Member Posts: 30
    ...A design flaw would be to have a 3 liter V6 lose to 2.4L I4... :):):)
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    A design flaw would be to have a 3 liter V6 lose to 2.4L I4

    Seeing as SUVs aren't built for racing in general I see nothing wrong with putting an engine that tows and hauls well into said SUV rather than one that races well. If you want to race there are other versions of the Duratec30 that do a better job and they are bolted into the proper package for that job. :P

    Sing along!

    ... like a record baby right round round round...
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "Fastest Acceleration: Saturn Vue

    Most HP: Saturn Vue "

    Well, OK, if you allow that it's a Honda engine in the Vue. Anyone know how much longer that deal is going to go?
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    frustrated honda boys. still trying to convince people that because maybe a 4cyl crv can beat a v6 escape to 60, it is a better vehicle to live with.
    honda engines are still #2 as far as japanese engines go. it's not toyota, mitsu, mazda, subaru or suzuki either. :surprise: !
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    there is a new thread in the SUV forum with somone asking for advice on pulling a trailer. maybe you can help them out.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • dromedariusdromedarius Member Posts: 307
    I don't really have to convince anyone. I have the same capabilities as you do, and I got 22 mpg on my last tank, which was almost entirely city driving. What did you get???

    :surprise:
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    so how many times did you go 0-60 in the city? ;)
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    *shiver*

    You know that's the same guy who later formed Marilynn Manson...
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Don't blame us Honda fans for the 0-60 debate. Read the very first post in this forum.
  • dromedariusdromedarius Member Posts: 307
    Thanks, varmint! ;) I've come to the conclusion we have some people around here who post but don't read...j/k. :P
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    Like Varmint said:

    #1 of 6699 After reading the review by scape2 Jan 10, 2002 (11:33 am)
    I had to add this topic. Edmunds states the CRV bests the Escape V6 in 0-60 times. I happen to have a friend who works for a Honda dealer. I took an Escape V6 and a new Honda CRV and we did our own 0-60 tests. The Escape bested the CRV everytime! I am beginning to question Edmunds testing. Please explain how you did your 0-60 tests.
    We did ours by first marking off 1 mile on a flat, straight abandoned road. We started each vehicle from a stopped position. We did this at least 6x and everytime the Escape would prevail??
    How?
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    Seeing as SUVs aren't built for racing in general I see nothing wrong with putting an engine that tows and hauls well into said SUV rather than one that races well. If you want to race there are other versions of the Duratec30 that do a better job and they are bolted into the proper package for that job.

    Sing along!

    ... like a record baby right round round round...


    Cute-utes are not for heavy duty towing either, not with the unibody construction. Which logically says that CR-V is best at what it is designed to do: Light to moderate off-roading and high fuel efficiency. Escape is neither.

    Certain someone boasts how he tows his boat up a mountain, but fails to mention that he did it on a paved road, not a trail. According to that same someone, a CR-V shoudl not be able to get up a mountain. Here is a picture taken on the last outing Honda SUV had. According to the embossment the elevation is 3,491 ft. This is where we parked.
    image

    Top of mount Greylock loos pretty high, and 4 cylinder CR-V did not lose a beat climbing.
    image
    image
    image
    image
    image
    Oh, NO!!! No pavement...
    image
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    I did Greylock a few years ago with the crew. It's got a couple of steep spots, but nothing to challenge even the least capable econoboxes.

    A more telling example would be the Mt. Washington Auto road. Average grade of 12% the whole way up. You should have been with us when we did it at the last HondaSUV Olympics.

    As for the rest... Most will not use a small SUV for towing. Most will not use a small SUV for off-roading. Most will load it up with kids and a stroller on weekends. They will commute to work 5 days a week.

    That's why the CR-V's superior fuel economy, safety, and reliability are so key.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    You call this a mountain!!??? LOL!!!! my god man.. Do you know anything about the Cascade range located in the Pacific Northwest?? These are hills in comparison.. Take a moment and Look up MT Hood, MT St Helens, MT Jefferson, MT Rainier.. You crack me up! :D
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Wow! This is new. Now the CRV clan that hid the information of motor being rotated is once again trying to sweep it under the carpet. This is a design flaw, hands down. As I visit other chat rooms I will bring this point into view and into question. Just imagine, if Honda didn't use its PR group to mask this issue? The CRV would be sunk.. I find this to be information that was kept under wraps from the general public. Of all the other chat rooms I visit, noone has ever mentioned this information? Why? For people who defend the CRV as being the superior end all to the small SUV market for its superior quality, and reliability and engineering.. Blah, Blah.. I find it funny how this design flaw continues with no questions. At least I can feel safe knowing my Escape won't catch on fire! I sure hope noone gets hurt or killed in the coming years in thier CRV.. Rotated engine, hmm.. amazing how Honda had no problems in the previous model CRV... :mad:
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    The whole thing with your post is you lump all these issues into one. You are one who keeps bringing up the FIRST year of Escape and its issues. I never once denied the Escape had its issues in the first year. AND.. if anyone would dig deeper they would see these issues were NOT with every single Escape built. They were certain build dates and lots.
    By the way.. ever look at the recalls for the CRV? or the TSB's for the CRV?? I guess not.. it shows...
  • dromedariusdromedarius Member Posts: 307
    I'm dying to find out how reversing the engine is a design flaw. We'd need an engineer to explain it, but you'll have to do, but you won't, so it isn't. Keep jumpin', froggy!

    :blush:

    PS - Still waiting for the specs on the CR-V and the Escape you "compared"...

    :sick:
  • dromedariusdromedarius Member Posts: 307
    I never once denied the Escape had its issues in the first year. AND.. if anyone would dig deeper they would see these issues were NOT with every single Escape built. They were certain build dates and lots.

    The Ford PR engine is spinning it's wheels. Get out and research it on the internet. It's all over about the problems Escapes have. That stands to figure the spinning continues, since according to the newest sales figures, Ford's sales are down 23%, and Honda's are up by 4%.

    :surprise:

    So much for Honda going out of business...

    ;)
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Honda changed the orientation of the motor so that is rotates in the same direction as your Escape and you call it a design flaw... Simply unreal.

    As for your mountains, the measure that is relative to this discussion is how steep the road is going up.

    But even your assumptions regarding the height of the peak are erroneous. It's not the total elevation that matters, it's the vertical rise. What most people don't know is that the mountains in New Hampshire's Presidential Range are the equal to many of the big peaks in Colorado and elsewhere in the west.

    Mt. Washington's vert. is 3,675 ft.
    Madison's vert. is 3,800 ft.
    The vert. for Adams (in NH) is 4,500 ft.

    For comparison, Steamboat's vert. is 3,668 ft.
    Your own Rainier's vert. is 4,500 ft. (the same as our Adams)
    Accoding to what I've seen on the web, your Mt. Hood has a vert. of only 2,777 ft. (Maybe some viagra is in order.)
  • drive62drive62 Member Posts: 637
    Man you got to be fast around here. The last two posts said what I was going to. Oh well, for giggles.

    And as long as we're quoting song lyrics (hint: title of post).

    Someone's paranoia is showing again. And what exactly is a CRV? I'm familiar with the Honda vehicle CR-V. Perhaps someone can enlighten the rest of us as to what those three letters refer to?

    I know varmint will set the record straight but I think Honda's engines now spin in the same direction as most others automaker's including Ford? If so, wouldn't that "design flaw" also apply to them?

    Someone should go out and buy their third or fourth Escape (I've lost track). I imagine the Ford dealers are dealing...especially in the Pacific Northwest.

    This is where I would insert the blurb about Ford's horrendous October results. But someone beat me to it.
  • me3me3 Member Posts: 30
    I too live in the Northwest (Portland). I too drive in the mountains. I do this with five adults in the vehicle. I too actually leave the pavement. I go Geocaching to some of the oddest locations in the Cascades. Oh, I do this in my Honda. Granted, some of the spots I go to make my sphinker pucker but guess what, it takes me there .This whole conversation is so ridiculous.

    I bought my CRV to commute and have nice traction in the rain. I wanted room to carry the occasional big box of whatever. The mountain stuff is fun but it is not the primary reason for the purchase.

    By the way, when I get to the top of my mountain, I have a handy button on my keyfob that rotates my engine 180 degrees to help me get back down. ;)
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    My nomination for Post of the Day.

    "By the way, when I get to the top of my mountain, I have a handy button on my keyfob that rotates my engine 180 degrees to help me get back down."

    Clever those Japanese.
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "Perhaps someone can enlighten the rest of us as to what those three letters refer to? "

    Not sure if you are serious: Comfortable Runabout Vehicle
  • dromedariusdromedarius Member Posts: 307
    It pours. I wouldn't want to be the one responding to varmint's post.

    ;)

    How is someone going to explain that making the CR-V engine turn in the same way as the Escape's is a flaw?

    How is someone going to explain that rotating an engine makes a gasket stick?

    How is someone going to explain that the "mountain" they climbed is shorter than the "hill" the next guy climbed?

    How is someone going to explain that Ford continues to plummet in overall sales, and Honda continues to rise?

    My guess is someone out there will pull out the slide rule, or better yet, go for the jugular with an original insult like "Combustible Recreational Vehicle", since that person will have nothing better to say.

    I'm sure glad I'm not that someone...

    :shades:
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    my guess is that 'scape was including the other 10000 feet of elevation you need to get to where the 'vert' is measured. ;)
    speaking of mount washington, years ago, my 8 year old duster made it up and down and didn't need a brake job afterwards. does bring back memories. i've seen bumper stickers that proclaim 'this car climbed mount washington'.
    i put a bumper sticker on the duster that read, 'this car fell off mount washington'. :)
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • dromedariusdromedarius Member Posts: 307
    I think it is just hard for some people to admit that being the biggest, or in this case, having in the big engine, doesn't mean the best. The best boxers aren't always the hardest hitters (Muhammed Ali), the best quarterbacks don't always have the best arms (Joe Montana) and the best basketball players aren't the tallest guys or the ones with the biggest muscles (Tim Duncan).

    I understand it's part of our culture, this whole of obsession with bigger everything, but this is one aspect in which I think the rest of the world has it right. More efficient automobiles should be the goal, just as all of the guys I listed above are very efficient. I'd like to see American automobile companies strive for more efficiency. That's why I applaud Ford for making the Escape Hybrid. However, in some people's book, this must just be a waste of time.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Cute-utes are not for heavy duty towing either, not with the unibody construction. Which logically says that CR-V is best at what it is designed to do: Light to moderate off-roading and high fuel efficiency. Escape is neither.

    So just because your CR-V does what you want it to do, i.e. gets decent fuel mileage and can do light off-roading, it is the best small-ute out there?

    Sorry, but that means it was the best choice for you, not me. I wanted the ability to carry heavier loads inside and out of my small ute as well as up and down huge hills day in and day out. I'm not talking about those wimpy long inclines you show in your picutres either. Some of the hills I drive on every day, to and from work, are not long in distance but they are nearly straight up and down. I'm not exaggerating either.

    Therefore, the Escape or the Liberty would have been the best choice for me, not the CR-V. Obviously your definition of a small-ute differs from mine.

    Also, I could care less about fuel mileage (to a certain point), reliability, TCO, or emissions. Arguably some of the CR-V's strong points. I'll let you clean up after me. :P
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    You know that's the same guy who later formed Marilynn Manson...

    I did not know that! Did MM do a cover of that song? For some reason I can hear it in my head. Among other things. :surprise:
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    How is someone going to explain that Ford continues to plummet in overall sales, and Honda continues to rise?

    Drom,
    Was it a 4% increase when compared to the same time last year? Honda has added completely new vehicles to it's line recently while Ford has not. I went over this once before, when you add vehicles to your line they bring a 100% increase to the table during sales calculations. The Ridgeline is the most recent and the Accord hybrid may be another depending on how Honda does their calculations.

    I don't have Honda's sales chart in front of me right now so feel free to correct me if I'm totally off above.

    Ford also discontinued the Thunderbird and Excursion, and they are slowly sending the Taurus off to pasture (no pun intended) which affects the bottom line very negatively.

    I'm not saying the Ridgeline is the big difference here because Ford's sales did free fall in October, the Explorer and Expedition mostly, no doubt. With the Explorer being redesigned (I've driven an EB V8 model and it's worlds better than the older model), the new Fusion, continued brisk sales of the Mustang and Five Hundred I think they'll be OK. FWIW Ford (the brand) sales are only off 3.4% for the YTD compared to last year.

    It might still get worse before it gets better.
  • drive62drive62 Member Posts: 637
    I was serious. I still would like to know what CRV stands for?

    Maybe one of the Eskape owners can tell me.
  • me3me3 Member Posts: 30
    Per Post #8 of the FAQ: Odd Facts and History by varmint Nov 26, 2003 (4:31 pm)

    This is always a popular question, "What does CR-V stand for?"

    The answer is, "Comfortable Runabout Vehicle". This is not widely known, and your local dealer, who probably doesn't know the truth, may have fabricated their own definition for the term...
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