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Final comment on playing catch up. Marty Collins, General Manager for Ford's marketing division recently said the following:
"But long before gas prices spiked, we said there was business to be had below Focus and Escape because the Japanese have put a stake in the ground and said they'll have a string of vehicles coming out at that end of the market"
Seems pretty clear to me who is playing catch up.
look at it this way, what changes to they make to the civic, since last introduced? they didn't have to because it sold well the way it was. the cr-v has had several upgrades(powertrain and features). this was to try to reach the escape 'line in the sand'.
Ford is still playing catch up. The Civic you are referring to went through a model change. Intrduced as a 2001, it has outlived its usefull life. Ford Focus on the other hand, was introduced in 1999?? Why do we still have the same old Focus? Not the Euro Focus? Does Ford think that its customers are stupid? I think Ford does think that. Do you?
The Escape has had plenty of upgrades. First the incentives were only $500. Then they upgraded them to $1,500. Then they upgraded those incentives to $2,000. Then they started offering them at employee prices.
That's how Ford upgrades a vehicle.
check out the msrp on an escape and you will understand how they can provide generous incentives.
i'm pretty good at math, so if anyone needs some help let me know. :P
You planning on keeping that Focus for more that 4 years?
the focus does have a 5 year 100k powertrain warranty. not that i expect any problem with it, it is a 'dura.
one of the kids has already claimed the escape as their ride. that isn't for another 3+ years.
And nobody pays MSRP for a Ford. The market has determined they aren't worth it.
Close to a half million vehicles in two days. And add that to the 4 million recalled in September. I guess Ford owners will be waiting in line at the dealerships.
I wonder if someone thinks a battery cable rubbing against a bolt and causing a fire is a design issue? Nah. Must be because the bolt was rotated 180 degrees.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051116/wl_canada_nm/canada_autos_ford_recall_ca_col_1
Maybe Ford ought to put more standard safety features into their vehicles, along with better fuel economy, something like what Toyota and Honda do. Using low pricing as the main marketing tool for the company that produced the Model T, the Mustang, the Thunderbird, and other automotive greats, is plain pathetic.
Also, I'd be really angry if I were an owner of a Ford vehicle. Not only are the rebates killing their resale value, but this means people overpayed a few years ago when they bought the car new, meaning they are getting hit up twice.
Furthermore, pretty much every Ford owner is learning their vehicle can start on fire at anytime. Having a family, these sorts of things really scare and concern me. What's with the constant design flaws and coverups? Whatever happened to "Quality is Job #1".
I just had the hatch recall done on our '05 a couple of weeks ago and didn't wait in any lines. In fact, I was the only one there and they only had two other vehicles there to work on. It's a dealer on a very busy highway in a big city so it's not like people don't know they're there either.
Maybe, just maybe, there was a little sarcasm here about the desire to PURCHASE another Ford vehicle?
Prices typically rise over time. Every year they go up a bit higher than the previous year. The CR-V's list price has gone up nearly as much in four years as the Escape's has in five. Buyers will pay those increases for a Honda or Toyota. As mentioned above, it's just inflation. However, Ford needs to use incentives to bring the prices back to 2001 levels.
Look at it this way... if incentives were completely counteracted by a rise in prices, the companies using them wouldn't be faced with losses quarter after quarter.
ford does sell a lot of limiteds. you can get factory tow package and backup sensors on an escape. one of the benefits of having a real rear bumper.
Traction control cuts power to wheels which are spinning, and while 4WD helps a vehicle get traction, it isn't the same as traction control, which aids 4wd. It is obvious some more research needs to be done by some people in this area.
Also, I went and did a price comparison, and those are wrong as well. Similiarly equipped CR-V SEs and Escape Limiteds sticker about $4,000 apart. The Escape doesn't have standard side and curtain airbags, so those must be added, as must the moonroof, heated seats and side mirrors, 4WD, and full-size spare, all standard on the CR-V. The totals come to $26,000 MSRP for the Honda, and $29,675 MSRP for the Escape. Throw in the $1,500 rebate, and the starting price difference is STILL $2,500.
I've said it before, but I think it is important to do a little research before posting on this site. Prospective buyers use this site, and the amount of information which is presented incorrectly is too high by some of the Escape posters. Use the internet to do a little research before posting, please?
escape is now either 2wd or awd, as of '05.
And of COURSE, you added the 16" alloys, since it's the most expensive item to add, but here's a little tidbit for you, the SE already has 16" alloys. It's just the ones you added have 7 spokes...whoops!!!
So...the only thing we're missing is the $515 reverse system. Even with installation, you're not making up the $2,500 difference. This is just too funny!!!
Huh? All SE and EX come with Alloy wheels standard. You have to be careful about the honda sites, they don't check for stuff that is already on the vehicle.
Also, it is far better to get those same parts aftermarket (but the same OEM parts), it saves about 60% on the cost.
the limited comes with the top of the line alloys standard, so i just added them to the cr-v. these are different from the standard alloys on the xlt.
i was trying to max out the price on both vehicles.
Also, your making yet another jump to the conclusion the Escape has AWD. All-wheel drive means torque is going to all of the wheels, ALL THE TIME. Ford was very careful in their wording, even doing you the favor of adding "monitor" for you. The CR-V does the same thing. As soon as slippage is detected, power goes to the rear wheels.
I'm going to point the less technically competent of our brethren to a website called howstuffworks.com. I really shouldn't have to spend all my time explaining where certain people are ALWAYS going wrong.
PS - The same site will explain the difference between traction control, vehicle stability control, 4wd and AWD as well. School is in session.
The "as needed", along with Ford's use of the word "monitors", should be enough to spell it out for those of us having a little trouble with the concept of 4WD vs. AWD (full-time).
"awd lessens the need for both features the cr-v needs because of the part time drive system."
You should have already known that the Escape uses a "part-time" system, as well.
BTW, the term "part-time" is typically restricted to systems which require the driver to engage them. Old-school 4WD systems with the throw lever are just about the only ones left.
The word most commonly used to describe systems like the Escape's, CR-V, and VUE's is "reactive" AWD. While designs like the Forester's and RAV4's are called "proactive" because they are always distributing some power to both axles.
escape central is basically a love-fest.
And FTR, that statement is just another way of admitting one being wrong, IMO. I guess it'll have to do.
:shades:
Kudos, Explorer. It's nice to see that you can admit your faults.
And nobody here thinks there's a perfect vehicle. There are just vehicles which are superior based on specific criteria. The Escape is better for towing. The CR-V is better for commuting and safety.
Furthermore, if you are really into towing and offroading, the Liberty is the obvious choice, as it has higher torque figures at lower RPMs, more ground clearance, and a real 4wd system, but if you want a jack-of-all trades vehicle and you don't mind taking a hit on resale, the Escape is a pretty decent vehicle.
However, if you planning on driving your vehicle like most people, which is to say, not towing, and safety is a priority, the CR-V is a can't miss proposition.
Prices typically rise over time. Every year they go up a bit higher than the previous year. The CR-V's list price has gone up nearly as much in four years as the Escape's has in five. Buyers will pay those increases for a Honda or Toyota. As mentioned above, it's just inflation. However, Ford needs to use incentives to bring the prices back to 2001 levels.
Look at it this way... if incentives were completely counteracted by a rise in prices, the companies using them wouldn't be faced with losses quarter after quarter.
honda raised their prices by $500 last Marc to help GM and Ford out of the financial hole. It was just a nice gesture from Honda and Toyota. Even though the prices were raised $500 across the line, the sales are strong. Can't say that about the domestics.
ford does sell a lot of limiteds. you can get factory tow package and backup sensors on an escape. one of the benefits of having a real rear bumper.
Check out CR-V again, it has optional tow and back up sensors as well. NEXT.
escape is now either 2wd or awd, as of '05.
SE comes with alloys standard. No need to inflate the price. SE is AWD, the only option with 2WD is LX auto. Can't be any easier.
escape central is basically a love-fest.
Oh yes, the Escape problems board is empty. (sarcasm) And Escape has no recalls (sarcasm) Just another recall this week for wiper motors. I bet it is all Honda conspiracy, trying to smear Escape's image. (sarcasm)
And get 30 MPG?
Obviously, adding the extraneous items were just an attempt to make the two prices equal, and even if the prices hadn't been messed up, which they were, the CR-V has better resale and better mileage, so the TCO is still lower. Nice try, though!
:P
Are you sure about that? Toyota had announced that they might raise prices as one possible way to help out GM (they have common interests with GM). And because they wanted to avoid a backlash of anti-japan sentiment.
However, Takeo Fukui's (Honda's CEO) reaction to Toyota's announcement was more or less disbelief. He thought the Toyota guy was nuts.
I never read anything suggesting that Honda had matched what Toyota said they *might* do.
Now, the price of an EX with an automatic transmission went up a full $1,000 from 2004 to 2005. That's when they added the 5AT, upgraded AWD, VSA, curtain airbags, and the other MMC changes. So the price hike is understandable. But, even without big changes, the price always jump a bit. It went up $100 in 2003 and $100 in 2004. It jumped another $250 from 2005 to 2006. And the destination charge jumped about $100 somewhere in there, too.
Huh? The CR-V cannot do that either; this is an Element, as I'm sure you know. Not sure what it has to do with this Forum.
I liked the Element, but it's low maximum cargo weight (685 lbs) killed the idea for me.
went to the local auto show today.
the cr-v has a large cargo area behind the rear seats, but the rear access door is huge too.
inside they, weren't a whole lot different. i did get taken off guard by the emergency brake handle. at first i thought it was a grab bar, but couldn't figure why it would need one there. when it grabbed it, it moved, i thought i broke something, but i chuckled when i remembered reading about it.
there were some cheap pieces on the cr-v. the drivers window was down and when i grabbed the door where the window trim meets it, there was a lot a flex. the award for the cheapest piece i found for any vehicle was for the outside hood release. the alloy wheels looked like plastic wheel covers.
there was only 1 escape, a base hybrid model. it seemed cheap compared to our escape limited. the floor shift didn't seem any better or worse than the column shift. the mariner had a better interior than our limited.
One feature I've really grown to like about the CR-V is column-mounted shifter. With a baby in the family now, my wife has had to go to the back seat on more than one occasion, and the absence of a floor-mounted shifter makes that a relatively easy task.
I really didn't have any beefs with the Escape interior, except it was smaller than the CR-Vs. Not by much, but my 100 lb. dog's kennel fits easily within the rear of the CR-V with the back seats upright and back, and it was a tight fit in the Escape. (I did hate the Tribute's interior, which had a bunch of crappy faux materials.)
The one feature I liked on the Escape was the fold flat rear seats, but Honda musta had a reason for not doing that, since the CR-V still has more cargo space with the back seats forward than the Escape does with its seats folded forward and down.
I have been following this forum for a little while (since purchasing my CR-V 3 weeks ago). I have to say, I never even considered an Escape, the main reasons being fuel economy and reliability. I'm not sure what you mean by "fully loaded" when referring to the CR-V as they do not come with any factory options. I have a 2006 CR-V SE, for which I payed $25,2 OTD ($23,9 +++). This included mud flaps, wheel locks and the rear cargo protector. MSRP is $26K including delivery charge.
Where did you get your $29K figure from?
Both of those are dealer installed options which command an installation fee as well. Ford offers both from the factory on the Escape.
It saved them lots and lots of $$$$$$ to not have to change it.
One of the chuckles I get from the "towing and hauling" argument is the fact that the Escape uses a donut. Sure, you can tow 3,000 lbs... until you get a flat. You can't tow anything using a donut.
I suppose the owner of a $29K CR-V would loan you one of his 5 extras... :P
Mine has a full size spare. It's an option on the '05s (don't know about MY06 yet) but our Limited came with it standard. However, most Escapes on the road right now do have just a donut.
To add more, it rains a lot here and having the "lift gate" to stand under when loading the weekly groceries into the cargo bay is very nice. My sister-in-law complains of getting soaked while trying to load her CR-V in the rain. In fact, she's the one who brought it up and I hadn't even thought about it before then.
I suppose the owner of a $29K CR-V would loan you one of his 5 extras...
Wouldn't want 'em. The bolts are probably rotated the wrong way or screw on backwards like the motor or hatch. :P :P
i basically loaded up an escape and optioned out the cr-v to match it. i got the prices from the honda website.
on the cr-v, the rear sensors and towing package were mutually exclusive. you could add your own as an aftermarket add on.
the wheels were listed, so i added them. you could always negotiate a trade in on the factory wheels, if you want to.
the materials and finishes in the pilot are a couple of notches higher than the cr-v.