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Comments
Huh? The CR-V cannot do that either; this is an Element, as I'm sure you know. Not sure what it has to do with this Forum.
I liked the Element, but it's low maximum cargo weight (685 lbs) killed the idea for me.
Element is just another version of CR-V, they built on the same platform and share many components. I liked Element too, until I drove it. It drives like Escape, whereas CR-V drives like an Accord.
Here is another Honda CR-V powered gem.
Notice the SPECS. It uses B20Z from the FIRST generation CR-V. I wonder why they did not choose the so excellent Duratec V6 from Ford? hmmm? They did put Ford Axles in there, but not from the ESCAPE!
Here is Rhino in Action Video
To add more, it rains a lot here and having the "lift gate" to stand under when loading the weekly groceries into the cargo bay is very nice. My sister-in-law complains of getting soaked while trying to load her CR-V in the rain. In fact, she's the one who brought it up and I hadn't even thought about it before then.
A lift gate was out of the question for my family, as my dad is 6'3", and I (at the time was 6'2", now 6'5") am tall too, I had trouble unloading our large 2000 Odyssey van because it had a lift-up hatch. We traded it in two weeks ago, and got 2k over blue-book for it Woo-hoo! We couldn't be happier with the 34mpg Accord we traded it for! Gotta love that Honda resale value!
I think you're confusing me with someone else. I'm not sure how I feel about that yet! :surprise:
It's understandable that the lift gate was not on your list. These things happen. Now if I could just get you Honda folks to understand that an I4 in a 3000+ lb vehicle wasn't on my list due to the local terrain we could all get along finally!
All right, all right, I'll stop with the logic. Steve and Tidester, your jobs are officially safe again.
:P
Whew - was getting worried there for a while!
Logic and facts just confuse matters!
tidester, host
I'm pretty sure they have different wheelbases, and the Element is built in the US, not Japan or England. So I do not consider it "another version of a CR-V".
don't think those u-joints in the front are going to live a long life.
don't think those u-joints in the front are going to live a long life.
I think you dug your own hole this time.
From RINO specs: Ford 9" Axles front and rear
You are right, they should have used Honda axles to make it sturdier.
The list would be shorter I can tell you that. However, our choice would have come down to looks inside and out which was my wife's department. I made her test drive the CR-V even though she hated the way it looked inside and out.
Seriously, the main reason we traded in our '02 Escape XLT for our '05 Limited was the fact that she wanted a vehicle that "stood out" a bit more from all the others. We looked at all the others again, plus a larger one or two, and the Escape still won her over. I know it sounds stupid to do what we did but she's the one pushing the kids out and she can do whatever she wants after that. :surprise:
I think Hummer, BMW and Mercedes stand out a bit more than just going from 02 to 05 Escapes. Admit it, there were problems and she could not stand it anymore. No one in the their right mind drops a perfectly functioning 3 year old Escape (trade in value of $10,000-$11,000) for 38% of original value, to get the same. I would understand if the 2005 Escape was a major redesign, but not much changed, same old vehicle of questionable design and assembly.
It would have been cheaper to add leather and paint the bumpers than lose $15,000 on it.
We got $15,500 for it which was 60% of the sticker price (64% of the sale price).
It would have been cheaper to add leather and paint the bumpers than lose $15,000 on it.
We lost nothing on it and the '02 had leather BTW. With the Limited we gained side curtains with the personal safety system, EBD on the ABS, 4-wheel disc brakes, 300 watt MACH audio, heated front seats with upgraded perforated leather, reverse sensing system, nicer wheels, the aforementioned painted bumpers and cladding, console shifter (which we both like better but do miss the extra storage in the '02), the new electronic 4WD system, three shoulder belts and headrests for the rear seat, illumination for all of the door switches on every door, and if I think of any more I'll get back to you.
Admit it, there were problems and she could not stand it anymore.
The only problem we had was the stalling thing which was fixed with a recall. It happened to each of us once and we both knew exactly what to do, pop the shifter into N and restart, because of all the useful info posted on this and other Escape forums. When do you plan to post something useful?
I think Hummer, BMW and Mercedes stand out a bit more than just going from 02 to 05 Escapes.
I don't like Hummers, the X3 is a powerless joke, and the Mercedes was a lump of a wannabe minivan at the time. Any other suggestions for me as to where and how I should spend my money? :confuse:
I too am mulling it over as to what my next vehicle is going to be. A parent on out soccer team just bought a new 06 Escape Limited, Guess what Honda fans, they chose it OVER the CRV! LOL!! Choice is nice. I took a look inside and what a huge difference from my 01 Escape XLT. Granted, they had all the bells and whistles and leather. Now I am trying to decide between a Jetta TDI, Fusion SEL V6 and a new Escape Limited! :confuse:
Also, I am noticing more Equinox and Saturn VUE's on the road than ever. Not so many new CRV's..Hmm... Got to love competion and choice's.
A note about Honda and prices. Anyone who shops will see that Honda's are not inexpensive. You can look through the newspaper advertisements and see and match car for car, SUV or SUV and see Honda's sell for $1-3K more than a like advertised competitive vehicle. So, for those Honda fans trying to convince others that Honda's have "value" or are just as expensive... your shooting yourself in the foot..
So, are you telling me that a dealer just wanted to lose money? If the guides says it is worth $11K tops, no dealer would give you $15,500 unless they padded the new car price by the same $4500.
When do you plan to post something useful?
When do you??
Any other suggestions for me as to where and how I should spend my money?
Not telling you how to spend your money, just showing you where you could have saved. The national savings rate in the US is -0.15%, in other words people spend more than thay earn, rather than putting away 10% into "black day" fund.
You can go ahead and spend your money the way you like, I know that by buying Honda I am able to put a nice chunk away into savings (separate from retirement plans and 401K). With savings interest rates as high as 3.5%-4.0% (ING direct and Emigrant direct) it is hard to not to save.
I too am mulling it over as to what my next vehicle is going to be. A parent on out soccer team just bought a new 06 Escape Limited, Guess what Honda fans, they chose it OVER the CRV! LOL!! Choice is nice. I took a look inside and what a huge difference from my 01 Escape XLT. Granted, they had all the bells and whistles and leather. Now I am trying to decide between a Jetta TDI, Fusion SEL V6 and a new Escape Limited!
None of the cars you listed are known for reliability. It must be in your genes.
Before you go on and ask questions again, read back and post answers to questions YOU HAVE BEEN ASKED!
BTW, I am showing you that the NO HAGGLE PRICE on the 2006 CR-V SE is $24,910 Which can be brough down to $24,300-$23,800 with some haggling.
2006 Ford Escape Limited V6 is $26,020 including the $1500 rebate. Needed to add Safety group for side airbags, sunroof, Limited luxury group for the heated seats and mirrors. For $1000 more you get NO Vehicle Stability Control, no steering wheel radio controls, no resale, lower fuel efficiency and questionable reliability, (all standard on the "infeiror" Honda CR-V). Sounds like a great deal... NOT.
Your turn to SHOW ME THE MONEY!
I think I see your problem now. You assumed you knew everything and that we just traded the '02 in yesterday. We did it in June of 2004. The dealer didn't lose any money either because they turned around and sold the '02 for over $20k (my assumption based on them listing it for $22k as a certified pre-owned). Ford also paid them the amount of the rebate and most of the X-Plan discount we qualified for.
With savings interest rates as high as 3.5%-4.0% (ING direct and Emigrant direct) it is hard to not to save.
My wife and I work at large Universities and our kids will go to school for free. That's right, we'll pay $0.00 for them to go to their choice of two excellent institutions of higher education. In fact, if they go to the school I work at, my wife's school will pay us several thousand dollars to "help" with the tuition. So you see, savings aren't a big priority right now. Maybe I'll have to eat my words in the future but we're willing to take the risk.
Give me your e-mail address, I will send you dealership names, phone numbers and VIN#'s of the Escape Limited's for $25K..
Its people like you that try and try to convince people that no other car maker can make a reliable vehicle. I have head these stories over and over again from people just like you that my Ford Escape is garbage, is unreliable, is going to breakdown.. Well pal, I now have about 65,000 trouble free miles.. AND if you get out on the net you will find people with 150,000! now on thier Escapes... Sounds like the never ending banging of the Honda drum is fading as people (like me) find that you don't have to pay extra to get a good value and a reliable vehicle...
Both the CRV and Escape are fine vehicles, each do things a bit differently, some better, some not.
Keep cool.
That is nice that you don't have to worry about paying your kids education. But here is the wake up call, savings are not for education. 529 is for education, savings are for that day when everything that could go wrong, goes wrong.
My company pays for my and my would be kids education 100% at any school of my or their choosing, this till does not stop me from saving. General rule of thumb is to have 6-10 months of cash reserves for "just in case" situations. But hey, it is your life, do what you like.
I posted a PUBLIC link with a PUBLISHED price, WHY CAN'T YOU DO THAT?
I don't have time nor desire jerking dealerships around asking them for prices. In order for ESCAPE Limited to be comparable to CR-V SE it has to have 3 optional packages added, and still no VSC, nor steering wheel radio controls. If the price is not published it is as good as anyone's guess. SHOW ME THE MONEY!
Well pal, I now have about 65,000 trouble free miles.. AND if you get out on the net you will find people with 150,000! now on thier Escapes... Sounds like the never ending banging of the Honda drum is fading as people (like me) find that you don't have to pay extra to get a good value and a reliable vehicle...
150,000 miles is when Honda is just broken in. Show me a FORD product with 300,000 and up miles that is still with the ORIGINAL ENGINE! And as I have showed before, HONDA IS CHEAPER THAN COMPARABLE FORD. You still have not shown me the price you have been bragging about.
I owned a 1985 Civic DX that had 250,000 miles when I sold it. At 10 years old and 250,000 miles it still commandeered $1500. Considering it only cost $6000 new, that is pretty good resale (25%). The car started every morning without a hitch, got 45 mpg's, and was on ORIGINAL ENGINE AND TRANNY. The only things that were replaced were clutch, brakes, tires, spark plugs and spark plug wires, filters and fluids.
My last car was 2002 Civic Si, bought it new for $14,500. Drove for 3 years and sold it in at $12,500. 86% resale.
Have fun beating your drum, while I am driving all the way to the bank, LAUGHING.
As far as fires go, that is due to HUMAN ERROR when performing FIRST OIL change and due to faulty gaskets from oil filter manufacturer. It is quite different from DESIGN FLAW when wheels fly off, daoors fly open, hatches go wide open, wipers motors that sieze up and catch fire... the list goes on and on and on. FORD is like an energizer bunny, "the DESIGN FLAWS keep showing up, and up and up..."
A full-service advisor, with free wake-up calls!
A full-service advisor, with free wake-up calls!
I guess, I should send him the bill. What's your address Baggs?
Also, kind of funny. I look around on the highway, I see plenty of old Ford trucks, Escorts, Taurus's, Sables even Tempo and Topaz on the road. If Ford products are all supposed to fall apart at such low miles as you claim.. Then why are all these older Ford products still on the road?
Wiper motors seizing and catching on fire
Back hatch flying open
Engine catching on fire
Steering wheel falling off
Accelerator sticking
Roof crumpling
THOSE are examples of design flaws. NONE of those has happened to CR-Vs. ALL of them have happened to Escapes. It's seems pretty ignorant to keep pointing your fingers at the CR-V when your Escape just got recalled yet AGAIN, for the 18th time. It's gotten so bad, Ford isn't even going to make the thing anymore.
It wouldn't be a bad ride if it weren't for all these design issues. My question is, why the coverup? Why does Ford have to issue all these recalls before I hear a peep about them???
My wife and I bought a CRV EX in '99. With a few dealer added options and a grille guard (I know, but the wife thought it looked cool) the driveout was about $21,000. We put 165,000 trouble free miles on it before selling it to my inlaws for $2,500. It has been their daily driver since March and still no problems. Now, when I say trouble free, I mean trouble free. The only thing we did properly was keep the oil changed. The car still has the original plugs, transmission fluid, CV joints, etc. We never even changed a fuse. Of course tires, brake pads, and I think one battery were changed. Everything still works on the car, including all electronics, cruise, stereo, electric windows, a/c, etc. NOTHINGever went wrong with this car. I was happy with the turning radius, the cargo space, and for a family of three it was the perfect car. I was a little disappointed with the power and acceleration at first, but was so happy with everything else that this became trivial.
I have never owned nor driven an Escape, but have friends who enjoy theirs and have not heard anything negative. Without research, I am sure the Escape has more available power and features over the CRV, as this is generally the case with the big three over Honda and Toyota.
If I had a choice between the CRV and the Escape. I'd vote CRV every time. The reason? Plain laziness. My wife and I are terrible at maintaining vehicles. The CRV was very forgiving of this. If I knew an Escape could offer the same peace of mind long after it's paid for, I'd go for it because of the available features.
By the way, we now own a Tundra and a Tacoma 4x4. That's a whole different forum altogether.
I am nor interested in what a cousin of a son-in-law's second brother had. I had a Civic that lasted 250,000 miles and fetched 25% of its original price on resale. This was a first hand account, not a rumor, not an internet post, not some fictional character.
I am sure there are FORDs that have many miles on the odometer, but not with the original engine or transmission.
Show me a 1972 Ford product on the road. Show me a 1982 Ford product still on the road with original engine. The rebuilt and restored 60's and 70's Mustangs don't count since they were rebuilt with mostly newly made parts.
All of the Topaz' and Escorts are late 80's early 90's and look like hell. There are plenty of early to mid 80's Civic and Accords on the road. I had a chance to buy a 1982 Civic Wagon that ran like a champ. My neighbor has a late 70's Accord (4 round headlights). It still has an original engine and tranny and about 300,000 miles on the clock. Given, it is not his daily driver anymore. But it still starts and runs when he takes it out of the garage.
I have an 1988 Honda Prelude, that runs like new. Starts on the first crank and has all of its 120 horses.
As always, you have not answered the previous question and already asking the next question. I am still waiting for you to show me that a comparably equipped FORD Escape is less expensive than Honda CR-V. SHOW ME THE MONEY.
Don't change the subject. You have posted that Escape is cheaper than CR-V. I showed you that it was not true. Either admit that Ford is more expensive upfront (plus lower fuel economy, and lower resale making it more expensive in the long run), or show me the proof.
Thank you.
Wiper motors seizing and catching on fire
Back hatch flying open
Engine catching on fire
Steering wheel falling off
Accelerator sticking
Roof crumpling
THOSE are examples of design flaws. NONE of those has happened to CR-Vs."
Not true. The very first recall for the 2nd gen CR-V was related to a problem with the seat belts. Honda uncovered it during internal testing, but 2 or 3 thousand CR-Vs had already been sold. And we all know about the possibility of a fire from the engine bay. Although the "design flaw" in the case of the fires (O-rings) was created by a supplier, not Honda, it was still a design flaw.
If you're going to bash Ford for the recall issues, bash them for having 5 or 6 within the first few months. Obviously, they didn't do a great job of testing and maintaining quality control before releasing it. But you can't simply bash them for having recalls or the types of recalls. Those happen to every car on the road.
2005 CR-V SE $33,792
2005 Ford Escape Ltd AWD $40,473
Estimate based on 5 yrs of ownership and 15K miles per year.
If you value peace with your in-laws, tell them to run, not walk, to the nearest Honda dealer and change the engine timing belt. It is due for a change at 95K, as I recall. If that thing goes, your engine is in for serious damage.
I humbly submit that both the CR-V and Escape are dated platforms and have been eclipsed. I've been in the market, so to speak, for a small SUV for quite some time. But I wasn't satisfied with any of my options.
The CR-V keeps getting bigger and is clearly underpowered. It's now 181 inches long, and was recently downrated in HP when Honda applied the new SAE standard. All this time we thought it had a lowly 160 HP when it actually had a bit less. It also comes with a dash mounted shifter, and inferior tires - both in size and in the actual make/model of the tire. Those Bridgestones Dueler H/Ts are horrible, and the problem is made worse by the fact that you can't get any of the best tires in the category in the CR-V's tire size. No Michelin Cross Terrains, Goodyear Fortera SilentArmors, or Yokohama Geolandar HTS. You have to live with junk tires.
These Escape needs a 5-speed auto and about 10 or 20 more HP, better interior quality, standard side airbags, stability control, and an overhead console. It suffers from a serious dearth of features. Even the new Kia Sportage and Hyundai Tucson dwarf it in feature content. The bar has moved and the Escape is just too barren. An integrated key would also be nice, like the CR-V and all other Hondas have. And the Escape's Continental Contitracs are also junk, but you can easily buy any of the top tires in its size.
I recently test drove a Ford Escape XLT 4WD V6, and an XTerra S 4WD (all Xterras are V6). The Xterra blew it away in every possible category. It's a lot heavier to be sure, but the power & torque gain is proportionately greater than the weight gain over the CR-V or the Escape. For a couple thousand more, you get a dramatically better SUV. And on the low end, the Hyundai/Kia twins offer so much more, feature-wise, and with super-long warranties.
I think the CR-V and Escape are out of the conversation until they get serious refreshes or complete redesigns.
I guess I'll never know.
I am not sure how much horsepower you need, but my 2005 CR-V gets 0-60 in 7.5 seconds while getting 28-30 mpg. It hit this only bested by Subaru Foreseter XT (turbo) and Porsche Cayenne Turbo. None of which get close to 30 mpg.
But, hey, if someone needs to compensate where nature left them short with big horsepower, good for them. 4 cylinder Honda engine works fine for me. I fill up every other week,and it costs me $20-$25 to go from E to F.
By the way, I know of at least one person who put Yokohama Geolanders on the CR-V.
Wasn't Xterra recently redesigned anyway?
In fact, the Escape has 15" tires standard on one trim.
Sorry, I think you are wrong on this one. And as for the brand, I agree they are probably not the best but tires aren't usually the area automakers splurge. Many other vehicles come with those Bridgestones.
Also disagree about your outdated platform comment. But everyone's entitled to an opinion. And hopefully you are aware that a redesigned CR-V is coming for '07.
I'm surprised more don't point out the Escape's rear drum set up on several models vs. the CR-Vs all disc, even on the entry level trim. Rear drums, that's outdated, IMHO.
I think that's just a case of people assuming that bigger is always better. Most buyers care more about the looks of the vehicle than how it actually performs. Also, manufacturers charge extra for larger rims... so they MUST be better, right?
Little do they know that larger rims can often degrade braking and acceleration performance. Most alloys are far from light-weight and simply add to the unsprung weight. Aftermarket changes to rims will sometimes throw off the ABS sensors, too.
Anyone serious about sport driving would be better served to look at the BMW X3 or the upcoming RDX or Volvo small SUVs.
The problem with rear drums is that they don't dissipate heat very well. So during repetitive braking situations, they are more likely to overheat. For example, driving down from the summit of Mt. Washington in NH.
That said, during ordinary driving, the rear brakes do little more than 10% of the work.
Forgot to mention this. The CR-V is starting its fifth year. For a Honda, that is long in the tooth. Next year it will get a complete redesign. The fact that it is still so competitive says quite a bit about it. Ditto for the Escape, even though it needs big incentives to maintain volume.
But a truly outdated platform would be something more like the VUE, Equinox, and Torrent. That same basic architecture has been in use for years and seems likely to continue for another 3-4.
What, you don't know it? :P
As for brakes, I agree somewhat but I'll still take discs all around.
Yeah, maybe he doesn't like how they fill up the wheel wells. My old Accord came with 14" tires so what do I know.