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Comments
but, why not ???
and vwguild hates my postings.
today the wall street journal reported that vw admited the phaeton has been a " flop ".
and,as i posted about a year ago ,i suggested that the dresden plant be used for other cars.
it appears that the 4 door bentley is heading that way.
for the 12 month period phaeton sold a total of approx. 5600 cars or 1/4 of the plan.
well, it is a shame because it could have been a nice car.
but too heavy ,too overstuffed ,and only a good autobahn cruiser. but this alone does not make a top car.
can you imagine the bentley buyers shelling out
$ 155.0 ,to get a phaeton which should go for approx. $ 55.0 fully loaded ,for a car that is nothing more than a rebadged phaeton ??????
well , vw hit it right with the bentley product and positioning .it will save the investment that they made in dresden.
by the way ,i do like the phaeton. for the turnpike that is .
and currently negotiating for a v12.
it is after all a bentley with a vw badge.
i think calling the car a flop is misstating the situation. marketing wise, i agree, they fell below their target. but this is a new endeavor for vw and so out of character that it will take some time for the public to really catch on to what is being offered. those buyers who rely on a badge to soothe their self esteem will never be customers. those buyers who look for value and quality don't need to drive the same car as everybody else at their country club could become customers.
but to call the car a flop is wrong. the car is not a flop; to the contrary, it is an amazingly fine automobile. statements like you quote mix up the marketing of the car with the car itself. i would agree that vw has not done a great marketing job but they did a fine job of creating a luxury car.
as i noted before, the phaeton is no canyon runner but to relegate it only to the highway cruiser class fails to recognize how much pleasure i get driving it around town. i drive mine 2.5 miles to a commuter train station every day and love every .10 of a mile i am in it!
i don't live near la or canyon roads. i don't visit the track. i don't drive like i did 20 years ago trying to peel the sidewalls off my tires on every turn. if that's what you want, then yes, i agree with you, get a different car. but if what you want is a solid, comfortable, safe, luxurious, good performing classy car, you can't do much better than this one; especially with some of the deals being offered.
take care.
bob
i did not call the car ,phaeton , a flop.
i quoted from a vw executive who was quoted in a german trade publication and which was in turn quoted by the wall street journal.
the flop statement and other negative statements have all come from vw executives . many of them ,according to articles in german papers were negative on the phaeton as of day 1.
if the troops are not behind the car ??????
also,i have been to the dresden factory. only saw it from the outside ,and i am going back to dresden in late october with some friends.
the factory is incredible.
the bentley ,it is said ,will have the engine produced in the u.k. ,which i doubt. and the body ,i think they mean the inside ,in crewe ,u.k.
but i doubt this.
i think that the dresden fty. will be utilized for either the bentley or audi. and even thou vw wants to move up market i doubt that they will ,given their current financial situation and their
poor sales showing of , recently introduced , new products.
i think that the major problem with the up market move is their dealers ,mostly in the usa . they are down market .
furhter ,the vw corporate culture has not changed much from the days when toyota and honda first launched in the usa . vw was ,and i remeber it first hand ,in denial .
they thought that the usa market would scorn the japanese and opt for the so called superior workmanship of the german cars. they still think this and this is why in germany they are down at the bottom of the pile in reliability and the japanese continue to gain market share there ,much as they have done in the usa at the expense of the usa and german manufacturers.
Anybody know about current financial incentives to the dealers to move 05 Phaetons?
I leased a phaeton about one month ago and I tell you it is the best driving car I have ever had the pleasure to drive. Now I must add that I have leased a 740iL and Own a 745Li. The pick up the BMW is quicker but the drive, low noise level and ambiance of the car is better than any car I have driven. Some may say it is a flop, and others may have a problem with the VW badging, but the car is pure class. I was interested in the A8 but this car while heavier and a gas drinker is head and shoulders above the A8. I must add that I would never buy the car, but then again I would never buy any car over $50,000.00 To all those haters out there sorry!
while i can only speak about my specific car i don't expect to spend too much time at the dealer's repair facility like i did with my ex '97 740il or '99 clk430. and while they had nice surroundings, the treatment was not classy at all, just greedy! the service i have experienced with the phaeton for a couple minor items was really very good.
i hear all the comments about second rate dealerships but the lack of visible advertising and support from vw for this car is distressing. that, in my mind, is the primary reason for the lackluster sales. if more people were able to experience what a few of us on this board have there would be more sales. more drivers would result in appropriate pressure being applied to the dealer network to get their houses in order.
this car sells itself. guess the old movie line "build it and they will come" doesn't apply here! if vw promoted this car properly i think they would be pleased with the results.
while i was in my car search process last year i frequented a number of bulletin boards. i found it interesting how many troubling issues with various other cars were being discussed but the rate of complaints on the phaeton were way less frequent; most were quite pleased with their choice.
I mention all of this because here lies the money...PHAETONs are carrying there own weight without this support, and we are not looking to 175,000 PHAETONs; we are looking to do that with
this new Jetta V...I have sold one a day since we got them at the end of last week...
No PHAETON subvention save the Lease, which is still superb...And do not expect another end of the year blow out...I have a list of maybe 20 that are either in Pre-Production or on the water, and that is it...
Best advice...Order the one you want, lease it and go from there...Any good Dealer will give you a nice discount and turn the car in 24 hours...A dream come true!!! For you and the Dealer...
we will see if this time i like it better.
and we expect snow here tonite.good trial.
may take it up to maine or vermont to try it out in the real mess.
we will see . no sense heading back south where i just came from if we get the heavy stuff up here and see how the traction system works in a parking lot .maybe i can do some fancy sliding.
i wouldn't go wild with the all season tires that come standard. while i have never been stuck and enjoy getting up the steepest snow covered hills i can find, when it comes to turning and braking, there is no substitute for real snow tires. but with the right "shoes" on you should be very secure in any snowy condition short of blizzard accumulation above the highest suspension adjustment.
hope all goes well for you. i just took another co-worker for a ride and he is busy figuring out how to unload his a6 and x5 4.4 so he can get a phaeton!
if you cruise a few forums for any vehicle you will find issues. according to my unscientific survey methods complaints about the phaeton are relatively few. i can tell you that my car, with just over 13,000 miles, the problems have been minimal. i believe there are more trouble-free phaetons out there with owners that don't bother posting to the boards. many of those with issues tend to make over-reaching pronouncements as if their experience applies to everybody else; they don't!
it is certainly possible that some cars are not assembled as well as others but i wouldn't let a couple bad experiences be taken as gospel and influence readers against any car, phaeton or another.
if you, like me, have read s-class and 7 series boards, you will find way more issues than i see on the phaeton boards.
the weakness of this car continues to be vwoa and dealerships. i was stopped at a car wash last weekend and told "i didn't know vw made a large car"! therein lies the crux of the problem...
Nuff said
and,still feels the same.
i still think that the interior is one if not the best out there.
the cruise on the interstate is fine,not great , but fine.the mb 500 is still the best out there.
but,the moment i went into rural roads ,the car cannot handle it.
and the oversteer is still there and very scary in back roads at hi speeds.
i want to buy it for the interior . but ,so far ,no sale .
a shame ,
glad to hear you finished your test drive; sorry to hear the results.
i must agree that the steering on the phaeton is lighter than the mb as i also had some similar initial reactions. if you turn on up the sensory elements in your palms you really can feel the road.
to me, though, this is one fine highway cruiser. it is very quiet, amazingly smooth and has plenty of power. i have heard the comments from some drivers about it wandering on the highway but i haven't found that to be an issue.
in terms of handling the back roads, for me, it has been just fine. while not a canyon runner, for a large luxury sedan, it is very good. when you say it over steers, that is a signal to me that you haven't adjusted to the difference in steering feel from the s500. there isn't as much resistance dialed in so you ended up turning the wheel more than necessary, hence the perceived oversteer. that's something you learn about in short order.
many phaeton owners have moved from bmw and mb, i sold one of each when i got the phaeton. i guess you get used to it after a while. if those back roads you traveled were filled with 5mph switchbacks, yes, i agree, get a 7 series, the s is an ok, but not a great handler, imho. i have found that for a majority of the driving i do, which includes some winding back roads driven at speeds way above the speed limit, the phaeton hunkers down and tracks well.
to each his own. that's what makes a horse race. we all want choice and to have the manufacturers push each other to produce better and better vehicles. i wish you the best of luck on your next purchase; too bad you won't get to know how much pleasure it is to live with a bently, oooopppps, i meant a phaeton!
Inflate the front tires to the maximum recommended by the auto manufacturer -- not the tire maker's recommendation. Inflate the rear tires 2 or 3 pounds less than the front tires.
This is effective on cars such as the Phaeton and most Audis because these cars are not well balanced. If, as an example, the Phaeton has 60% of its weight on the front end and 40% on the rear end, it will at some point in its handling tend to understeer. Such a trait can me mitigated by a combination of air and education.
Air: Putting more air in the front tires vs the rears will allow less "plowing" to the extent that any tire can mitigate this (which they can, somewhat).
Education: cars are affected by certain laws of physics -- one of the easiest ways to improve the cornering capability is to drive "in harmony" with these laws. For example, when approaching a corner at a certain speed you could let off the accelerator, enter the curve (or turn) and at the apex of the curve begin accelerating out. This will work (assuming you have not exceeded the practical limit that your car can navigate the turn); but, here in addition to the above is something that is quite easy to do that will reduce understeering in a nose heavy car (well, actually any car): as you approach the turn apply the brakes to induce a "load shift" to the front tires. This requires (for the purposes of making the example in words rather than a demonstration) a "Bruce Lee" stab at the brakes, waiting a half a second or maybe a little more for the load to shift to the front tires (which will have the effect of making the turn in sharper and the understeer milder), negotiating the turn throttle off and then accelerating once the apex of the turn is entered.
Using the technique of more air in the front tires and inducing deliberately the load shift will make the Phaeton, the A8L even the Audi S4 "carve through the corners." I know of no handling benefit of making the tires softer by lowering the air pressure, assuming that the tires aren't "over inflated."
I think my tires (245 x 45 x 18" UHP) are set 36# f 34# r -- this may be too high or low for your Phaeton, but hopefully you will give this approach a try. And to prove this you will have to test this using the tried and true before and after approach.
but i like the full air press. feeling and handling.
only car where i keep it at 22 to 24 or less at times is my 1955 550 spyder which weighs 1200 lbs. and carries 175 hp on a vw racing engine bored out to 2270 cc and a stroker on top.
anyhow back to the phaeton.........very nice car but ............
a question for you mark cincinnati-----
i happened to stop by audi showroom close to vw and saw a new 05 audi 8 short wheelbase with a custom interior that bests the phaeton one.
this a8 had a wood steering wheel from the factory......
brown leather seats with suede inserts....... and mostly vw interior matching many of the parts in the phaeton.
my question to you is ........how reliable are the audis in the usa .........i could not get any answers from CR ,on the 8.
on the 6 they are not very .in germany the same , not very good ,the 6 that is.could not get any info on the 8.
i know i will search edmunds forum a 8 next.
i asked about an extended warranty from the fty. and they are not offered . has to be an outside firm which is throwing money away as they will fight you all the way if anything goes wrong.
also,i have driven the audi 6 extensively in europe. they are not as good as the old 100 which where like a locomotive on rails at 140 mph on the bahn.
the phaeton is a better hi speed cruiser than the new a 6.
do you have any experience with the a8 short wheelbase /
thank you
ffb
Thanks!
I believe there is a relay that can be pulled to some effect however.
Is the/your Phaeton equipped with Servotronic steering?
Is your Phaeton equipped with steering that is engine speed sensitive or road speed sensitive, that is?
EPA FUEL ECONOMY RATING
City 12/hwy 19 (6.OL engine/5-speed auto trans)
EXTERIOR
Body-color bumpers w/black lower section Body-color door handles w/chrome inlay
Body-color Power flush-folding heated side mirrors w/memory, auto dimming, integrated side blinkers/flood lights, passenger-side auto tilt-down in reverse
Bumper-integrated halogen front fog lamps Chrome grille w/logo
Daytime running lights Door sills in chrome Dual pane tinted green glass
Heated front windshield washer nozzles High-intensity Xenon headlamps w/auto on/off feature, washer system
Infrared/heat reflecting glass
Power tilt/slide sunroof-inc: tinted glass, Power sunshade, pinch protection, driver door Power convenient closing, illuminated dial Rain sensing aero windshield wipers w/auto wiper speed control Soft close doors
Upper windshield gray band
INTERIOR
(2) folding keys for central locking system (2) front(2) rear assist handles (2) front (2) rear reading lights (4) cargo area tie-down hooks
(4) Power outlets-inc: (1) in front center console, (1) in rear center console, (1) in front center armrest, (1) in cargo area 18-way driver/i 6-way passenger Power leather comfort front bucket seats-inc: air conditioning ventilation, heat, massage, Power adjustable lumbar support/head restraints
4-spoke leather-wrapped multi-function steering wheel w/cruise control, audio functions, onboard computer functions 4-zone climate control
Audible/visible anti-theft vehicle alarm system-inc: doors, hood, trunk, radio, starter, anti-tow
Auto-dimming rearview mirror w/switch Automatic door locks
Central Power locking system-inc: key-operated windows/sunroof open/close, selective unlocking at driver door
Chrome loading edge protection Cruise control
Dual front cup holders integrated into center console Dual illuminated visor vanity mirrors w/covers & dual magnification
Foldable rear center armrest w/storage compartment, first aid kit, cup holders
Front center armrest w/storage compartment Front seatback storage pockets Front/rear door storage pockets Front and rear floor mats
Fully carpet-lined luggage compartment w/light Genuine walnut wood interior trim Genuine wood inlay door handles
GPS antenna for navigation system Headlights-on warning tone Heated rear seat bench-inc: adjustable head restraints, pass-through
Heated steering wheel Homelink
Illuminated front/rear air vents w/draft free ventilation Illuminated lockable glove box
Immobilizer Ill theft-deterrent system
Infotainment system/multi-function onboard computer-inc: color display, settings for climate controls, navigation, audio, vehicle settings, trip computer, air suspension settings, tire pressure monitoring system
Instrumentation-inc: speedometer, tachometer, odometer, trip odometer, fuel/ engine temp/oil temp/battery gauges, gear indicator, clock, outside temp, audio functions, warning lights Integrated armrests in front/rear door panels Integrated cell phone (Delayed introduction) Integrated rear window radio diversity antenna
Interior ambient lights
Leather shift knob w/chrome & wood accents Memory function-inc: front seats, exterior mirrors, interior rearview mirror, steering wheel
Mirror control pad w/joystick control Molded door trim in leatherette
Multi-function trip computer-inc: color display, trip time/length, average trip speed/fuel consumption, current fuel consumption, miles to empty
Navigation system-inc: visual/audible commands through center console display & onboard computer display
OnStar Telematics
Power height-adjustable/telescopic steering column w/easy entry/exit function
Power opening/closing trunk Power rear/manual rear side sunshades
Power remote trunk fuel door releases located on drivers door w/valet lockout feature
Power windows-inc: 1-touch up/down & driver-side lockout features, pinch protection
Rear passenger climate control & display Rear seat bench-inc: adjustable head restraints, pass-through Rear window defroster
Remote locking system-inc: lock, unlock, trunk release, panic button
Roof mounted antenna for OnStar Telematics Stainless steel pedals
Trunk closing assist handle
Upgrade 270-watt AM/FM sound system w/6-disc CD changer-inc: (12) speakers, 12-channel amplifier, subwoofer, digital sound processing (DSP) w/(7) adjustable simulated modes, dynamic sound compressor
MECHANICAL
(4) exhaust pipes
l8in. x 8.5in. alloy wheels w/anti-theft wheel locks
2~.8 gallon fuel tank
4-wheel anti-lock braking system (ABS)
4MOTION all wheel drive
5-speed automatic transmission w/Tiptronic & OD-inc: dynamic
shift program (DSP), sport mode
6.OL DOHC SMPI 48-valve W12 engine
95-amp alternator
Anti-slip regulation (ASR)
Digital electronic ignition w/dual knock sensor
Electronic brake force distribution (EBD)
Electronic~ differential lock (EDL)
Electronic stabilization program (ESP)-inc: brake assist
Engine braking control (EBC)
Four-link 4-corner adjustable independent front air
suspension-inc: (4) adjustable damping settings
Front and rear anti-rolI bars
Front/rear electronic damping control (EDC), auto leveling
Full-size spare tire/wheel
P255/45HR18 all-season tires
Power 4-wheel vented disc brakes
Servotronic Power steering
Torsen sensing center locking differential
Trapezoidal wishbone 4-corner adjustable independent rear air
suspension-inc: (4) adjustable damping settings
SAFETY
(5) adjustable head restraints w/crash active front head
restraints
4-wheel anti-lock braking system (ABS)
Anti-intrusion side-impact door beams
Anti-slip regulation (ASR)
Child safety locks on rear doors/Power window lockout
Child seat lower anchorage points & top tethers for rear
outboard seats
Collapsible steering column
Daytime running lights
Driver/front passenger airbag supplemental restraint system
Driver/front passenger dual seat belt pretensioners
Options
Comfort Package $1790
Includes rear outboard seats with A/C ventilation and massage feature, power adjusted lumbar support, and power adjustable head restraints
Keyless Access $500
Electronic Parking Assistance $700
18" alloy wheels with all-season tires N/C
Interior wood in Chestnut $500
Klavierlack" high gloss finish $2000
Phaeton News
14 February 2005 Autoweek is smitten by the ultra-luxury, ultra-roomy Volkswagen Phaeton.
26 July 2004 Autoweek declares Phaeton the champion in a head-to-head bout with Mercedes S500.
20 August 2004 Phaeton's sound system "shamelessly goes for the jugular" in a match-up with the best factory audio systems around.
Autobytel.com finds Volkswagen's full-size, ful
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Followup/articleId=105287
Net net: I'm reluctant to move on the Phaeton for only one reason....The increasing decline in sales-----Will VW stop making it? If so, what does this mean to the customer exsperience? How dealerships relate to Phaeton owners etc---
Would the ever declining sales give you pause in regards to leaseing a new one now?
*By the way----no Bluetooth in Phaeton's--right? Thanks for the feedback-
I would dearly like a UK Phaeton but I'm not being offered any discount, I can get 10% on another S Class but my present one hasn't been anywhere near as reliable as my past ones. Any clues ?
And could someone post a USA sample leasing price for the cheapest model please ?
I'm persistent and will get there with your help guys.
Thanks
Dave
Frank
Forgot to mention, the MSRP on the one I leased was $78,155. So it does have a number of the optional upgrades.
I plan to drive it for the next three years and see what happens. If they can turn it into a star like I think it should be, I will probably buy the next one.
$5000.00 total drive off (all in)
48mos
10,000 per yr
$599.00 per month
*This is advertised weekly in the FL papers
Please post your lease details if possible---I'm literally headed to the dealership this afternoon and will possibly leave with one----
Thank you