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Volkswagen Phaeton

1568101133

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    vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    be correct...We were there for The Great Wine Escape Weekend...
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    markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    But, hey it did better the Mercedes -- the handling comments were the most negative.

    Boo!
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    regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    oh, sorry.
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    vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    Dinner at Maisonette for you and a loved one if they even drove the cars...Had the W12 up to 125 on Saturday and hit the brakes too, engaging ABS...Both the shoulder and lap belt have pre-tensioners; so you absolutely do not move in the seat...and do not even realize the stop...
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    merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Wait a minute..you're saying that Car and Driver didn't even drive the cars???

    I seriously doubt the Phaeton's pre-tensioners went off in a panic stop, isn't that reserved for a actual collision? It seems that what you're describing is the lock that all seatbelts have had for years when you apply the brakes. BTW, every import luxury car sold in the US has seat belt tensioners.

    M
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    vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    the lap portion...

    You are right though about the actual deployment/firng of the pre-tensioners...I meant the lock up, but thought the other term would have a more generic understanding for the board at large...

    I don't know what they did or did not do...But I LOVE the Maisonette
    and felt it a safe way to have dinner with Mark and write it off...:)
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    markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    My long time Audi salesperson and friend, retired from the car biz to form his own one person company to deliver high buck cars to rich people.

    He would drive from Cincinnati as far west as the Pacific to deliver that super high buck and rare, Posrche, S8, Mercedes, etc. He is now the sales manager at the VW store with the same name as the Audi store -- this VW store is literally "family" owned and it is the only dealership the owner has.

    Not a mega this or mega that -- the treatment at this place has always been top notch and now that Jim is back, the treatment will only get better.

    Jim knew that I was one of 50 people who were "given" (loaned) German spec A8's in 1996 for purposes of "evaluation" (yea right, drooling was more like it -- and of course I bought one, but I digress), so when I spoke with him last week he mentioned that his dealership would be one of the few that would actually have a Phaeton W12 and V8 -- I asked for the test drive. He said "sometime" in November.

    Well, you can bet your bottome dollar, I will be driving one of these -- and I don't need an excuse to go to one of the best restaurants (the Maisonette) ANYWHERE, Peter.
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    tariktarik Member Posts: 344
    The "lap portion" and the shoulder part are the same belt, therefore every pre-tensioner (which you didn't feel, BTW) will tighten you up in the seat completely.

    Maybe one needs those pink glasses when cruising in the underpowered12, but now it's time to take them off - please...
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    merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Thats exactly what I was going to say. Every car has the same function, it's the law. There were no pre-tensioners involved, otherwise the cabin would have been filled with gas from the discharge and you would have at least needed to hit something. Unless the Phaeton has a problem of some sort.........

    M
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    markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    . . .of a Phaeton TV commercial last night. Not bad, overall. Now I'm ticked, I've officially seen more Phaeton commercials than allroad commercials.
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    vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    Belts in the Phaeton are actually two seperate and distinct belts...One for the shoulder and a seperate one for the lap, and joined at the latch...
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    rower2rower2 Member Posts: 22
    I just saw the W12. I don't know if I would spend 88 on a souped up looking Passat even if I had the money. It was nice though. One thing to keep in mind if you do want this vehicle. One its a first year model and I'm experiencing all sorts with the T-Reg and two, if the airbag deploys, it will take at least three days in the shop and four techs to fix because they have to take the whole dashboard out. If I were going to chance this, I would wait a year.
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    gumpsgumps Member Posts: 17
    Has anyone heard whether sat radio will be an option. My dealer just got two cars in but doesn't know much yet.

    After seeing the car in person, haven't been able to drive it...EVERYTHING about the interior is head and shoulders above MB, BMW and Lexus. The electronics are simpler, nobody has a climate control system like Phaeton and the sound system beats all the competitors. I also see a hint of the Bentley in the design lines. As a bigger person I just wish the seats didn't arch into my kidneys. This seems to be an issue for BMW as well.

    I hope it drives as well as it has been presented. Any owners out there yet with any bugs to fix?
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    jpvwaudijpvwaudi Member Posts: 139
    the program is pretty strong on this car; I was pleasantly surprised.
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    creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    & the switch-layout inside is over complicated to be comprehended at a glance. The C-pillar that distinguishes it from the Passat is just being copied by the much lower-priced "moving opera theatre" - the new Acura TL - already on sale.

    More:
    creakid1 "Phaeton TDI, is it possible?" Nov 17, 2003 3:21pm
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    mariner7mariner7 Member Posts: 509
    There's an interesting article on VW in Time:

    http://www.time.com/time/globalbusiness/article/0,9171,1101031124- -543826-1,00.html

    I didn't realize VW does so badly in JD Power, finishing ahead only of Suzuki, Daewoo, Land Rover and Kia. Note that none is major or independent.

    Another interesting fact, VW sold only 220K in 9 months of 03, not much more than some premium brands.
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    merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Some people have said that VW either doesn't understand the U.S. market or simply isn't serious about it. I tend to believe this. I've never seen such a good group of cars simply in need of a better dealer setup. Fixing that and the quaulity problems would make VW feared among Japanese competitors, as their designs are still more desirable, imo.

    I just happened to be driving by a VW dealer last weekend when I saw this really large Black car in their showroom....so you know what it had to be....the almighty Phaeton.

    The salesmen wouldn't open the car for anyone, even the older people asking about it. I can accept them not taking someone of my age seriously, but the older folks weren't getting anywhere either. All they could do is pass out cards with the "Phaeton Specialist" name on it, saying to "call him". I kept thinking this car is going to fail so miserably. The car itself looked pretty good from the outside, but it's the interior that drew the most ooohs and ahhs. VW is lucky that people will pay premium prices for SUVS from anyone, because the T-Reg wouldn't make it any other way. I went to my local dealer today to see if they had a Phaeton, since this dealer is literally around the corner compared to the dealer mentioned earlier. They didn't know when or if they'd be selling them. Lots of T-Regs though, salesman literally forced me to drive one. For a SUV I like it, again the styling and quality of the interior are the big pluses, though like the exterior styling a lot too.

    VW needs to get serious about the U.S. market and to do this means doing some painful things...like terminating shady dealers. There is no way they're going to be able to sell a 88K car!!!

    M
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    dhanderdhander Member Posts: 41
    Anyone know what the warranty for the Phaeton will be?
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    markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Can you say fraternal twin of "The Audi Advantage?"
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    kagan1kagan1 Member Posts: 5
    I agree that the greatest callenge facing VW right now is the quality of their dealers. Last year my local VW dealer told me that only certain dealers would get the Phaeton. They each had to raise their standards and meet new minimum standards that VW was setting. Consequently, they were really going out of their way to improve their service and appearance, even to the point of firing staff that didn't meet the new standards. They practically demanded that they get to fill out the questionnaire that every customer receives after a service call. Very "low-brow" in my opinion.

    I think they can clean up their appearance, but the big problem is teaching an old dog new tricks. VW sales reps can be pretty slimy. They're used to selling their cars to Honda and Toyota shoppers for a substantial premium. They needed to be high pressure. At over 70-80K though, they will be catering to a different clientele. These buyers will be looking for some serious class and service. Not just pricing concessions.

    Overall, I think this new VW can compete very well with MB. For those of you worried about Audi market share, you're missing the approach and point. Audi is a German DRIVER'S car. High-end VWs are true luxury vehicles. The Audi will always be sportier and handle tighter. The VW will coddle.

    Essentially, Audi competes with BMW, not Mercedes. And VW competes with Mercedes, not BMW.
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    merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Well the car itself will compete with Mercedes, no doubt. VW the brand, sales and dealership experience will most certainly fail trying to sell a 80K car through their existing dealer body. There are about 3 VW dealers in Chicago that even approach a standard worthy or able to sell a 65-88K car, the others won't be able to move this car.

    "Essentially, Audi competes with BMW, not Mercedes. And VW competes with Mercedes, not
     BMW."

    Thats right out of VW's marketing/press material, and couldn't be any further from reality. Just look how many S-Class and LS430 buyers drove the A8 during comparision shopping, right here on this very board. Audi competes directly with BMW with the A4, S4, RS6, but the A8 is a luxury car first and foremost that competes with the S-Class, A8, 7-Series, LS, XJ and yes the Phaeton. VW only competes with Mercedes in their mind.

    I'll bet anyone here that this VW, no matter how good a car it is, won't make it, due to an inappropriate dealer setup. What is VW thinking? Only certain dealers will sell the car, meaning you'll have seek it out.

    It's a novel premise for VW to be a full range provider, and I do like the Phaeton, but in this country I don't see it working due to their half-baked approach to selling the Phaeton, and shoddy dealer body. All of that is enough to kill it's chances, plus for some VW's image will be a stickler.

    M
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    creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    "Audi is a German DRIVER'S car. High-end VWs are true luxury vehicles. The Audi will always be sportier and handle tighter. The VW will coddle"

    The Phaeton is luxurious only in its interior appointments. Unlike the DaimerChrysler S-class sedan, you have to slow the Phaeton down over rough roads in order to remain riding comfortably - That's only better than a Suzuki Samurai!(Sorry, I may be over exaggerating)

    I know the A8 doesn't cuddle you over bumps, but at least it has a high level of handling, although not steering communication. The Phaeton excels in neither ride nor handling.
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    habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    when VW came out with the Phaeton, but I just saw one for the first time when I dropped by a Pennsylvania VW dealership to check out the Toureg.

    I am sure it's been stated by a few hundred others, but A $85,000 VOLKSWAGON???? There has to be serious drug use in the corporate ranks. The small town dealership that I went to has about as much chance selling that car as I do trading my S2000 for a 360 Modena even up.

    I may be wrong, but I suspect that to sell any more than a couple of dozen Phaetons annually to equally drug influenced buyers, VW is going to need to offer $40k rebates. Let's see, a $85k Phaeton or a $80k AMG E55? Now that's a tough choice. Ha Ha.

    Seriously, the Phaeton could be the best car in the world, but the net worth of the average shopper I saw in the VW dealership was below the Phaeton's MSRP. Other than being made in Germany, upon what basis does anyone think VW can compete with the likes of Mercedes or BMW?? Even Audi is a marginal player in my area (DC) and they are a few rungs up the ladder in image over VW. And Lexus and Infiniti are smart enough to limit their top end prices to about $60-65k. And they aren't trying to sell a $16,000 New Beetles, Golfs or Jettas out of the same showroom.
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    markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    . . .will have to undergo "Phaetonization" in one year (ok, maybe up to 15 months).

    What is Phaetonization? Well, it is IMMEDIATELY -- and January 1, 2004 would not be too soon -- putting out all VW's with the Audi Advantage (100% free scheduled maint for 4 years or 50K miles; free comparable loaner cars when yours is in for service; and lots of customer follow-up, not to mention actually learning from the feed-back). Simultaneously and I do mean AT THE SAME TIME, begin product quality improvements at the factory floor level, parts and components procurement level and so on. And, again, simultaneously, the dealer body must undergo a class-transplant.

    The dealers must either be trained or threatened (fear or greed must be tapped) to behave more like funeral directors and less like trailer (as in MOBILE HOME) salespeople. Or perhaps, if the funeral director analogy doesn't ring your bell, they should behave like "consultants" -- the consultative sales approarch works better (more effective and more efficient) at any price point for major purchases than the "what'll it take to make you buy this TODAY?" approach.

    I hate to sound so matter-of-fact, but this isn't rocket surgery or brain science -- and, THERE IS NO COMMON SENSE, so don't think it'll happen just because. The good news is, this is Dick and Jane level simple to learn.

    Look! See! Listen! Hear! Imitate: rinse lather repeat.

    And for those Herb Tarlick's who just can't change, or won't de-slime themselves: can you say Do-do Bird?
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    vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    is called "Phaeton Protection Plus"...The problem with expanding this Full Maintenance program across all carlines is one of numbers...

    The first number is the cost...Free Maintenance Programs are not really FREE...

    The second number is units to be covered...This is ceratainly a down year, but YTD we have 289,558 new VWs burning gas v. 70,000 for Audi...
    Additionally, we have walked this path before...Prior to 2002 All VWs did come with Free Scheduled Maintenance for 24Months/24,000Miles...The shear numbers made this an overwhelming task...2000, 2001, 2002 over 1,000,000 new VWs sold in the US...
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    markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    . . .Peter, I do not disagree with your metrics, I do disagree with your conclusions, however.

    If X number of new VW's were sold from Y number of dealerships and people actually maintained them, other than the "cost" what is the difference in service capacity?

    Assume, just for easy high level discussions, that the cost of service, prepaid (i.e., built into the price as Audi does, to name but one) over a 4 year or 50,000 mile period was $1,600 to $2,400 (think for a moment like an actuary; I am not talking about warranty claims, just the 10,000 mile service intervals). Assume too, that this amount could be built into the MSRP in some fashion (higher MSRP, lower margin perhaps for VWoA or VW AG for 1 full model year or some combination).

    The question is, if the cost factor is eliminated, is there capacity in the dealer network to perform the service? If the answer is NO, then there must be an assumption that customers will not service their cars as required if THEY have to pay "additional" for it.

    Everyone knows that warranties are not free and they also know that all-inclusive, no "extra-charge" for scheduled maintenance is also not "free" -- but most of us LIKE the no cost, (no EXTRA cost) treatment.

    Furthermore, I submit that all-inclusive "free" maint helps build repeat buyers.

    If there is insufficient capacity, well, perhaps VW dealers and the Phaetonization of VW of A is doomed.

    I can't imagine this to be the case.

    And, nothing I am saying is meant to imply that I think VW should provide "free" maintenance and eat the costs. The customer's perception of a brand begins the northward march, however, if there are no recurring charges for maintaining the car.

    So yes the problem of expanding free maintenance is one of numbers -- $$$ not sales #. The free maintenance would be on a go forward basis, starting in X month 2004.

    The service intervals have gone up (on VW/Audi products) and the service requirements have, from this point of view, decreased. Service capacity should have, therefore, enough elasticity to "stretch" to meet these needs. What makes the problem (capacity) mitigate when the customer doesn't have to pay for service? My service requirements have NOT changed since Audi starting paying for it -- I still get about twice as many oil changes as the warranty requires, it is just that now I only pay for one of them; when my wipers start to smear, I go get new wiper blades, nothing has changed, it is just that I paid for them in the MSRP; ditto headlights, fan motors and yes, even washing and vacuuming. It is just that when I get the free car wash on Saturday, especially in the winter, I tip the person who washes the car a little bit more generously than if I were paying 100% for the wash.

    If VW dealers do not have the capacity to service their customers, this problem, too, must be dealt with. The initial transition for Audi to the 3 year test drive was not all roses, as I recall -- but we all made it work, somehow. Rarely did the dealer not have the capacity to service me -- unless I wanted the service NOW. Even today I do my best to give my service advisor ample time 10 - 20 days to perform service. Usually, and that means 80% of the time, the only issue is if I get a new loaner Audi or another non-Audi, but new, Enterprise rental.

    Of course, I am used to Audi's policy of having no parts in stock -- so everything, other than oil changes ALWAYS takes 2 days. But, last week I had a 2004 A4 3.0 quattro for two days, so I hardly suffered, and this week while the part is being installed in my 2003 Audi, I will have yet another car for the day -- either Audi, VW, Porsche or Enterprise -- ain't no thang.
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    shoesshoes Member Posts: 131
    I saw both models at the SF auto show. The interior, as the spy shots already reveal, is quite nice. However, the latest Car& Driver review of this versus the relevant competition placed it fifth out of six. Hard to imagine a totally new model failing so dismally in a comparison.

    I am terrified at the depreciation prospects of this vehicle. I would advise the folks at VW to come up with some special lease deals since that may be the only way they sell many.
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    habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    I almost agree with almost everything you said.

    My problem is that no matter what VW does or tries to do, my predilection would not be to buy an uber-luxury $80,000 sedan from a company whose average sale is a low to mid level "starter" vehicle. You don't look to McDonalds for a fine dining experience.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not impressed by brand name labels that don't offer any higher quality. I bought a Maxima instead of a I30, a Trooper instead of an SLX, and a S2000 instead of a Boxster S. But I'm sure not going to run to the VW dealership with $80,000 burning a hole in my pocket. And I just don't see my more affluent frineds and neighbors doing it either.

    All the suggestions you made on how VW should improve their customer service and product quality are appropriate. And AFTER they have been able to prove to the marketplace that they are worthy, perhaps a $50-60k top end VW model wouldn't be that much of a stretch. But an $80k sedan now just seems destined for market rejection.
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    markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Advertisement in Cincinnati Ohio newspaper:

    Phaeton $698/mo. $1995 due at lease inception. No security deposit. Term 36 months; milage 10,000 per year. MSRP $64,200.

    Yes I know this is not the 12 cylinder model -- but, FOR SOME people, this is a deal.
    Today if I was looking at the $80K car market -- I would look at the A8 (and there are $74K A8's thank you). Stop. Nothing further -- but that is me, I want all wheel drive and I can't see myself in a Mercedes and the 7 Series BMW is cosmetically unappealing to me.

    The Phaeton and my cheering here on the sidelines may be for naught -- it may NOT succeed. I certainly have no crystal ball. Yet, believe it or not, the Ford Dealer is also a Rolls Royce dealer and they have Fords and RR in the same building.

    Heck my Porshce Audi dealer has 6 figure Porsches and $25 - 29K Audis together too. I dunno if I think that people will walk from a Phaeton just because there is a Jetta on Premises.

    My belief is as I noted that the dealers don't know how to act around people (customers) who have 6 figure W2's and are quite capable of buying or leasing just abount any ol' thing they want.

    Moreover, the entire line needs a perception transplant which can be jump started with a full across the board Phaetonization, which would, after all, be in advance of any real qualitative change. But, at least the concern of the high service and maint bills would be wiped out.

    I like VW's and I have owned several of them -- today my wife and I own Audis but "lurk" and hang around VW's waiting for VW executives to have the epiphany we know they will eventually have.

    There, that must sound a bit better than "VW -- get a clue" eh?
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    jpvwaudijpvwaudi Member Posts: 139
    1....move ALL production back to Germany. Maybe thats why the Passat is more reliable than the Jetta/Beetle/Golf

    2....require dealers to have stand alone facilities ( I work in a domestic store that "happens" to sell VW and Audi)

    3....VWoA add more QC personel/owner advocates
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    vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    Going to MacDonalds? We also make Bugatti, Bentley, and Lambos...Additionally, the lowly Passat has been named best Mid-Size family Sedan & Wagon by everybody since 1998...And then there is that Touareg thing...Motor Trend 2004 SUV of the Year, same with 4X4 & OffRoad magazine...Car & Driver Lux. SUV of the Year...
    In terms of product we are very much at home here...quite frankly I am not sure the Marketing folks are up to the task; however.
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    vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    has been turning out great product for over 30 years...They do not build window regulators...We buy them from a vendor...They build cars with the parts that they receive...How quickly we have forgotten the Satanic CoilPack problem...We didn't make those either, but it affected Passats & Audis worldwide...

    The Phaeton will be a success or failure because of Sales & Marketing skill, or lack thereof...The Dealers that have these cars have Service Depts. that are up to the task, and the Phase II & Phase III Dealers will be as well...

    In for a Penny or in for a Pound...This really great car will be made or lost in Auburn Hills...
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    merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I'm curious to know what kind of "introduction" would Car and Driver need to simply drive the Phaeton and compare it with the cars in its class. The ride of the A8 and Phaeton has been mentioned before as having a problem with bumps, especially in the rear.

    VW doesn't quite "make" Lamborghini either. The Gallardo is a joint product, and Murcielago even less so. VW only "makes" one Bentley, the Conti GT. The Arnage is from the old regime.

    M
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    vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    introduction would include use of the the 4 Corner Air Suspension system that includes ride height and shock absorber deployment...from sport setting to comfort...

    Steering is speed sensitive...

    Having spent a fair amount of time in the car myself, the things that they said, and more particularly the way they were said, imply lack of knowledege...
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    merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I have to disagree with that, they've only been testing cars for so many years. They wouldn't know how to work the suspension??? Come on now. C&D, if nobody else has more than few gearheads on board that really get into things like that. Even if they didn't know about the adjustability of the suspension (no way, but just for the sake of assumption) the car still shouldn't shiver over bumps. Only the Audi and VW had this problem. The Jag didn't have this problem and it has an equally adjustable air suspension. Speed sensitive steering, every luxury car on the market has this, the Phaeton's setup is no different.

    M
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    lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    For those that are interested, I spoke with a VW salesman last night to see if they had any Phaeton brochures. I am not in the market for a car right now (plus it is beyond my price range anyway), but I am curious to read about the car. Anyway, the salesman said only 270 V12-equipped cars will come to the US and all will be black with a beige interior. You can only select color on the V8.
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    creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    from the Brit tests that were available for a while: To summarize, at Phaeton's sportiest suspension setting, even the cuddly riding Jag can still handle better. At its soft setting, pretty much all the other competitors still ride smoother w/ better composure over bumpy roads.

    This is a shame, as we expect Phaeton's dinosaur sprung weight to ride like a Rolls.

    The steering communication's lacking, too.
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    vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    The only thing that comes to mind as a worthwhile suggestion is to drive the car yourselves...

    I have one in my garage tonight and the 70 miles from San Jose to Pacific Grove was sweet...V8 like a rocket...Most VWs have a sweet spot at 12:00 o'clock on the speedo...80MPH...Sweet spot on the Phaeton is also at 12:00 o'clock, but that is almost 90MHP...Seating comfort is great, heated seating is superb, same with temp controls, and the steering is almost intuitive...nicest I have ever experienced...Remember, this is a very big car; not a 911S...

    Stop reading; start driving....
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    merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Point taken, can you help with the driving part?

    M
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    vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    I cannot speak for other Phase 1 Dealers, but I have secured 3 additional V8s that I will provide for overnight Drive Experiences...I think that is really the best way to become familiar with the car...There is just so much to enjoy about the Phaeton that taking it out for a 20 minute test drive would really be inadequate.

    I am sure that your Phase 1 Dealers in the Chicago area will allow you to experience the Phaeton in the same way...
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    regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    what dud as far as looks. No way I'd lease one at 700 a month.

    Didn't check out the interior but why bother when the exterior is.....bland.
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    vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    "That is what makes the Market"...Just as some would never buy a Taurus or a Vette, or a Prius or Aztec...
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    regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    yes. true. it just does not have any 'panache'.

    The Lexus and Jag and A8 have it all over the Phaeton.
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    motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    Is that VW is offering a 12 cylinder powerplant while Audi is not. Another thing that is sort of strange is that the v8 gets a 6 spd auto while the W12 only gets a 5 speed. Strange indeed.
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    carjunkcarjunk Member Posts: 10
    Where can I register for the overnight driving?
    Cadillac offers these now and even Chevrolet.
    Can we call up the dealer and schedule these?
    Thanks
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    vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    any VW Dealer that carries the Phaeton would be happy to arrange a driving experience for you...this, of course, presumes that you are a qualified shopper with a clean driving history and appropriate insurance coverage...Just like GMAC does...
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    ctdwctdw Member Posts: 13
    I purchased a Phaeton this week and expect to have it in two weeks. I will post some feedback once I have spent some time with it. My lease was ending on my Audi S8 and was looking at a new A8L, BMW 530 or 545, and the Phaeton. The Phaeton was the clear winner for me. I also like the fact that it's a little more low key then a BMW or MB which I have owned in the past.
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    vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    Congratulations! Welcome to the VW Family...You will love your new automobile...Enjoy!!!
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    nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,557
    that's exactly the type of buyer that VW is looking for. You appreciate the engineering, build quality, & luxury despite the fact that it has a VW badge on it. Congrats on a smart purchase. It will be different from the S8 I can assure you. 1 down, only 4999 more Phaetons to sell for VW to reach its sales goal!

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

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    docrogerdocroger Member Posts: 29
    Like CTDW, I also purchased a Phaeton after carefully researching and driving the competition, specifically the A8L, MB E-class 4Matic, MB S-class 4Matic. I must have AWD here in New England, thus ruling out the BMW. While each car has some advantages over the other, the combination of the Phaeton's interior, driveability and PRICE sealed the deal for me. I am certainly getting the "You spent THAT for a VW!" comment from some of my friends, not many of them are car nuts and have not seen this car in person. One bizarre thing about this car is that it really does not photograph well, it's much nicer looking in person than in the pictures.

    There are up and downsides to the VW badge. The "Stealth-Wealth" argument really has validity for me. There is, unfortunately, a widening disparity in Doctors' incomes based on specialty--I'm much more comfortable pulling into the hospital parking lot in a 70K VW than in a BMW.

    I expect delivery next week...
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