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Comments
Since I have yet to drive in CA and do most of my driving in IL (which has passing zones all over the place due to its terrain) I will continue not to pull over if a line of cars gets behind me unless I am going unusually slow.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
If you see them ahead of time, adult moose are fairly predictable, but young, they might bolt, switch back 2 or 3 times, you name it.... :sick:
Oh I've done that, too. Sometimes when I'm coming home on my street, with the 30 mph speed limit, an S-curve at the end, a few blind hills here and there, a park across the street from a housing development, and a school, the last thing I'm going to do is speed up so whatever cars might be behind me can go faster! And if they get up on me too close after I've put on my turn signal to turn in my driveway, I'll turn in even slower. It's a rational thing to do anway, since the driveway is gravel and sagged down a few inches from the pavement, creating a bit of an indentation.
The annoying thing is that most of these people are just taking a shortcut down my street. Instead of staying on a 4-lane road with a 45 mph speed limit and then making a left-turn onto another 4-lane road with a 45 mph speed limit, they'd rather make the left turn and fly like a bat outta hell down my 30 mph country road, then make a right turn onto the road where my street ends, fly like a bat outta hell through that residential neighborhood, only to get caught by the red light waiting to turn left onto the 4-lane road. And most of the time, they're not even saving any time! I think it might actually be about a half-mile shorter, but the only way you save any time is to drive like crazy.
And annoyingly, sometimes the Maryland State Police set a trap out on the 4-lane road, just beyond where my street is, but still in sight of it. So sometimes people see that trap and then turn down my street to avoid it! I've been tempted to go up to those cops and tell them that if they want to do some real good instead of just fleecing the taxpayers, put up traps in the residential neighborhoods where you have people doing 20-30 over. Not out on a big 4-lane road with a wide median, where you're nabbing people for going 10 mph over an artificially low limit. I doubt I'd be too successful in persuading them, though. :mad:
A nice example of quality over volume, but since when did quality make sense to the government folk?
My mother used to live on a gravel road outside of Pendleton, OR that was quite similar to your road in terms of being a "shortcut" that saves no time, only distance. It had a.... um, 40 MPH limit? Probably too high considering the myriad of curves and deep, loose gravel. With folks ripping through there at 80 mph + (and zero law enforcement EVER), she lost more animals to vehicles than I can reasonably remember. There was at least one fatality on that road a year, and quite often far more (always single vehicle crashes).
Oh we've been complaining and requesting speed bumps for decades now! I remember when I was a kid, back in the early 80's when traffic really started getting bad, we tried calling the cops to request a speed trap but they wouldn't do it.
Then, one day around 1985/86, lo and behold, there's a speedtrap! I went and talked to the cop, and found out that there was a fellow cop who's kid was on a softball team that played in the park up the street, and he didn't like people speeding while his kid was there. So they were catching speeders. My first thought was well, doesn't that make US special! Screw the long-time residents who have had to deal with this crap day-in day-out for ages, but let's all bow down and suck up because some cop doesn't like people speeding when his precious kid is playing softball! And umm, the softball field was further off the street than most of the houses are!
I remember the cop was only writing tickets for people going 44 mph and up. It was a 30 mph speed limit back then, but the road was much narrower and much more dangerous. It had a creek running along one side that was deep enough that if you went off into it, you weren't getting back out. And on the other side there were telephone poles, literally right on the road. Here's an old pic I took, looking up the street, back in 1990. For comparison, here's a pic I took in early 2005. It's hard to tell from the pics, but after that house on the right and the second telephone pole, the road spreads out to 4 lanes. The county made the builder of the housing development and the private school, both of which broke ground in 1998, split the cost of doing that.
Back when I lived in my condo, we had a problem with people speeding down the road. Then one day they put in speed humps. The kind that you can still take at about 15-20 mph with little strain and well, the speed limit was only 25 mph anyway. One day I came home from work, and right on the other side of the first hump was a fairly new Hyundai Accent abandoned, with its right tire turned at an obscene angle. Wonder how fast he hit the hump to do that?
I am glad you do, I hate being beaten up by the people that actually own the roads.
I remember one time I was on Rt 47 going from Morris IL to Yorkville, IL. This ia a 18 mile stretch of road through farmland that has wide shoulders, few buildings along it, fewer trees only one stop sign (no stop lights), four curves of any significance and few very gently low lying hills. So pretty much its straight flat and open, a perfect road for passing slower traffic as 75-80% of the trip is a passing zone.
Well the day was a perfect day, not to hot not to cold, crisp fresh air and a bright blue sky. Since it was saturday afternoon and I didn't need to be anywhere until monday morning I just set the cruise at slightly above the SL and enjoyed the drive.
Along this drive not one person passed me. When I got to Yorkville I must have had 15 cars behind me.
The only other time that happened I was doing the SL or slightly higher on the same stretch of road simply because I was following a Statie on a bike. Then someone did pass me, the Statie took off after him.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Back to the speedo question, how do you know that yours is not 2-3 miles too high? This would result in you being just below the limit to the other drivers behind you? Perhaps you have found yourself just behind a "slow" driver - if his/her speedo says they are doing the limit and your speedo says otherwise what is the solution?
" 28-704. Minimum speed limits; requirement to turn off roadway
C. If a person is driving a vehicle at a speed less than the normal flow of traffic at the particular time and place on a two-lane highway where passing is unsafe, and if five or more vehicles are formed in a line behind the vehicle, the person shall turn the vehicle off the roadway at the nearest place designated as a turnout by signs erected by the director or a local authority, or wherever sufficient area for a safe turnout exists, in order to permit the vehicles following to proceed."
No "if you want to" or "as long as you are doing the SL you don't have to pull off". If you have five cars piled up behind you have the duty to get out of the way. If you don't, it's just as wrong as those speeding.
The text printed here says at a "designated turnout by signs erected by the director or a local authority, or whereever sufficient area for a safe turnout exists,"
so that leaves you to wait for an "official" turnout or one which YOU feel has enough room--those are hard to find, grin.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
No I am not. I am simply arguing that if I am at the very least doing the speed limit that those, by virtue of timing, happen to come up behind me have no real complaint. Especially if there are adequate passing zones along the way.
My time is more important that yours, you need to do something" It is sad to see how automatically hostile we have become as a nation to each other.
The sad thing is that it is you who is saying "you have to do something". All I am saying is be patient and pass when you have the opportunity to.
how do you know that yours is not 2-3 miles too high?
I have checked my speedometer against timing between to points of known distance, radar gun and GPS. In my daily drive the speedometer reads about 3-4% high (when it reads 52 I am actually doing 50) and the Caddy is about dead on. So I know if I am doing the speed limit or faster.
Perhaps you have found yourself just behind a "slow" driver - if his/her speedo says they are doing the limit and your speedo says otherwise what is the solution?
The solution is to patiently wait for a opportunity to pass when I am in a passing zone. When I see an opportunity coming up I downshift, when it becomes clear I give it gas merge over to the left to pass and downshift once more, pass the vehicle and merge back into the lane once I cleared the car then upshift back into the proper gear. Its simple and no one gets upset, see I don't think I own the road I like to share it.
I get behind people going slower all the time and unless they are going real slow (like 35 in a 55) I have no problem and wait for an opportunity to pass. Doing that I am rarely behind someone for more than a mile or two. No big deal.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Yeah, I guess it was true when Archie Bunker called California the land of fruits and nuts. Where every nuts a little fruity and every fruit's a little nutty! Guess that rings true with whomever writes the laws, too! :P
so if you're doing, say, 65 in a 55 zone in California, yet still holding up a long line of traffic, would a cop still write you a ticket? What if the "official" turnouts aren't long enough to safely pull off onto at those speeds?
I'd say enough is enough. If someone wants to do 35 or 45 in a 55 zone then yeah, they should pull over when safe and let others pass. But if they're doing 65 and there's a long line tailgating them, then the cop should pull them all over and give them speeding tickets!
FWIW, a few months ago this cop who looked kinda like Jack Trepper's cooking class teacher from "Three's Company" did a safe driving class at our company. Someone brought up to him about the slower traffic keep right, and he said that Maryland, at least, has no such law. So in Maryland, sadly, you can get out on any interstate or limited access highway in the state and, as long as you're going the required minimum speed (45 mph at least) you can legally drive in the left-most lane.
I asked the cop what about places where there is a white sign that says "slower traffic keep right". There are several of these on I-83 north of Baltimore. The only thing the cop said was "slower than what?" And I said yeah, but it's a white sign. White signs are signs that must be obeyed, like speed limit signs. Well, I never did get a clear answer out of him, and he tried to sidestep it, saying that the speed limit signs had to be obeyed too. So, does that mean it's okay to DISOBEY the slower traffic keep right sign?
Anyway left lane campers, take heart. It looks like your right to hog the road and annoy everybody else on the highway is preserved in the state of Maryland. :mad: Of course, the cop also might not know his rear end from a hole in the ground. I'm not going to believe for a moment that every cop on the force knows the ins and outs of every law on the books. Basically what it boils down to is speeding tickets bring in revenues. Getting left lane campers out of the left lane does not. In areas where it's illegal, I wonder what the ticket description is for it? Impeding the safe flow of traffic?
Andre, I am a bit curious how you are able to pull such incredibly obscure TV references as visual cues. :P
Too much time in front of the tube as a child, I guess. Here's the dude who played Jack Trepper's instructor, btw. :shades: Dude always looked a bit like a wino to me for some reason. Then it hit me. He was in an episode of "All in the Family playing, you guessed it, a WINO! Funny how the mind can keep stuff like that stored for so long!
First was a young blonde in a decked out Mazda 3 hatch with a law school alum sticker on the back window. I was behind her when leaving my workplace, which is a left turn onto a moderately busy 2 lane 30mph road with a center turn lane. Now, I am sure you are thinking "I bet she just pulled out in front of someone and made them slam on their brakes". But, it was the opposite...she wouldn't pull out at all! She was so timid...there'd be no cars for 10 seconds in either direction, and she'd slowly nose out into the road, and then chicken out. She did this a couple times before FINALLY getting out into the road when there were no oncoming cars for at least a block. And then what does she do? She uses the center turn lane as some kind of acceleration/merge lane, even though there was nobody in the proper lane to begin with.
Second place goes to an older woman in an early Mercedes 300E. I was stoped at a light at the bottom of a hill, and I saw her coming up behind me at a rapid pace. I was thinking there was a good 50/50 chance I would be rear ended, as she was moving along quite fast. But she managed to stop the thing with no drama nor even a change in her experession...I'll estimate she gets a good 2-3000 miles on a set of front brakes.
We're are talking about what the law says and doesn't say... and I saw it's off topic. Maybe it's just me, but when I try to be polite and considerate, the law is the last thing on my mind.
In fact, I don't even live by the law, and I bet almost everyone is like that. Oh sure, I happen to follow the important ones, but only because I would follow them even if they didn't exist.
So who cares if it's legal (or unenforced) to impede people? It's considerate to move over if it's safe to do so. It's all about going out of your way to help someone's day, and knowing that you can count on someone doing you a favor someday when you need it... to me, that's what being considerate is.
Lots of drivers, even if they aren't as common as they should be, make an effort to be nice. Some owners of lifted trucks go out of their way to re-adjust their headlights. Some commuters in the right lane watch their mirrors and help merging drivers have an open spot. Some speeders slow down as they pass a car in the next lane. They're not driving by the book... they have a better one.
Its not an LLC discussion because we are talking about two lane country roads (no left lane to camp in).
The question is who is being inconsiderate, the person driving at or above the speed limit and doesn't pull over or the person driving faster behind them demanding that they pull over?
The answer to that is "depends". It all depends on the circumstances, or better yet the road. When I was in Maui we took the road to Hana which is like a three hour drive and not one passing zone (the road just twists and turns to much). In that case if someone gets behind you pull off when convenient and safe to do and let the traffic by.
Now here in the great Midwest roads like that are few and far between. Roads here are straight and flat enough to provide more opportunities to pass than not. On these roads outside of the towns and villages you can usually pass within a mile or two after getting behind someone. That being the case I would say your being inconsiderate for demanding that someone move over for you (that is unless that person is going unusually slow).
Now I have had times when someone has come up behind me and stayed there. But seeing that there was an apparent unwillingness to pass me when the multiple of opportunities presented themselves the problem is not me but them. I figure its city folk who rarely drive country roads.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
First of all, with respect to the traffic laws themselves, as passed by state legislators and recorded in the books, before the advent of the internet, it was hard to even find them without going through a lot of trouble.
Even today, most people will learn about these laws through driving classes, the states' driver manuals, and road signs, but not to the level of detail as passed by the lawmakers.
For the laws about giving way to faster moving traffic on rural 2-lane roads, the spirit of these laws, as I see it, is for vehicles traveling significantly below the speed limit or the prevailing flow of traffic, whichever is lower, to move over where feasible to allow the faster traffic to pass, especially if legal passing zones are few and far between. This would therefore be most applicable to heavily loaded vehicles going uphill, tractors and other farm or construction equipment, or old or poorly maintained cars (or running with temporary spares) that don't have the ability to go fast enough. Courtesy and reasonableness come into play, as you both and Andre have stated.
Now, can we move on?
No we are having to much fun.
What I found interesting was that the Illinois Vehicle Code addresses driving in mountains. :confuse:
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I see people drive on that shoulder on a regular basis, and it bothers me because there are a couple bus stops on that shoulder, and people walk on it all the time to go from an apartment complex down to the strip mall. I'm sure pedestrians have been hit there.
Anyway, about a half-mile beyond the shopping center, traffic eased up, and I was still doing about 55 with that Caprice on my tail. He could've passed easily but chose to keep tailgating. So I took my foot off the gas until he finally got fed up and passed.
It seems like an increasing number of people pull up to a stoplight, then zone out and forget they're behind the wheel of a car. So it takes them FOREVER to realize when the light turns green and start moving again.
I pay attention to the lights, and even watch the opposing traffic signal. When the opposing light turns yellow, then red, I know it's time to get moving. As a result, I don't sit at the light for 30 seconds after it turns green.
My question is this...How long should I let a person sit at an intersection, AFTER the light turns green, before I honk at them?
I've had people look back at me, like I was inconsiderate, after honking at them for sitting at a green light. But I think they are the inconsiderate ones.
I would say give it at least several seconds. Also remember that the person in front of you may not be going trough for a very good reason.
Also I wouldn't take my clue of the light turning green based on the opposing traffic lights turning red.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
A cure for green light dawdlers would be for people to hang up and drive, or do your hair and makeup at home...around here those cause the most delays in reaction time.
I give people a few seconds, then I flash my lights...99 times out of 100 that gets them going.
Kyle
The only thing I can figure is that he didn't have his driving lights on. Just prior to checking the on-ramp traffic, I had looked in my rear-view mirror and did not see any cars coming up fast on me, or any around me for that matter. Since I was in a void of traffic, it is plausible. :confuse:
The official answer:
http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/HTM/2003r1/part2/part2b2.htm#section2B31
No, it is not OK to disobey.
I go to work before the traffic rush, and I notice some lights will change when a car turns onto the intersecting street, like the sensors are too sensitive. And every morning I see lights triggered by cars pulling into a right turn only lane at a major interesction, which has virtually no cross traffic at that time of day. Then there are the out of sequence lights, and the ones that instantly turn red to let a car out of a side street 1 second after it arrives, no matter the traffic flow or existing light sequencing of the 100x busier cross street....so 20 cars get to stop to let one out, when if it waited 20 seconds only 5 would have to stop. Maybe it's a conspiracy to get us all to burn more gas :sick:
Interesting you should mention that. AAA did a study, and I don't remember the exact figures, but we could save A LOT of gas if they just timed the lights properly.
I will give credit that the daytime vs early morning sequencing is different, so the problem doesn't exist during peak hours...the main road I drive on is very busy most of the day. But that's all the credit I can give...I am thinking of somehow starting a letter writing campaign or even notifying local news media of the blunders of traffic planners here. Someone isn't doing their work.
Every Sunday morning a light a couple blocks from where I live gets stuck on red, even though the cross street is a minor road compared to the main street. It seems to require a few cars to change, so if you are alone (which is easy on Sundays as this area dies off on the weekends), you're in trouble. So now I just wait maybe 10 seconds, and if the 'don't walk' sign isn't flashing, I simply run the light. I think it should be legal to stop and then go on a red if there is no cross traffic.
It most likely is one that is triggered when someone is over them. That someone probably made a right turn on red and was long gone when it cycled through. I see this often on some of the roads I drive. I would be coming up to a light and see some approach on the cross street and make a right turn on red. The car will be long gone from the intersection by the time it turns red.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I do notice that at some intersections people who make a left cut the corner and drive over the sensor on the oncoming lane and trip the light. Also I have noticed at some intersections people making a right make the turn to wide and do the same thing.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
As for traffic lights that sometimes go red for no reason, I think they're programmed so that, in the event that a car or motorcycle on a side street doesn't set off the sensor for whatever reason, the light will change eventually to still give them a chance to get their turn.
Or sometimes it might just be a method of traffic calming. Make the lights turn red so that people have to slow down and stop, instead of being able to go speeding through. Of course, when the lights turn red for no apparent reason like that, often the people stopped get pissed and take off even faster when it changes, feeling it wasted their time!
Hahahah... the lady responded like it was the voice of God. Her head flies up, she *throws* the phone to the passenger seat, and guns it through. By the time I prodded her though, the light was already yellow and I missed the light. :sick:
I did not care much though, for I was laughing so hard about it for the next few minutes that the extra delay did not seem so bad.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I tend to do the same as fintail when there is no traffic. If the light is red, I stop, check traffic, and go. Surely not legal, but safe and timely.
There is one "T" intersection leaving the UAF campus where the left turn trips an otherwise always green light for the main road's traffic. When I use that intersection I will only pull up in the left turn lane if it is between, say, 0700 and 1800. Outside of those times I use the right lane and turn left so as to not trip the light. Otherwise, I would feel obligated to wait the extra 30 seconds for the light to turn green for me as invariably there is at least one other car on the main road that has to wait for the pointless red.