Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

fintail

Oh the gall of inbreds wandering into the left lane while going under the limit...

Speeding isn't a crime in and of itself. In areas where vehicles are more maintained and average IQs surpass room temperature, the limits would be higher.

fintail

Yep...I live in a fairly urban/built up neighborhood, and all the streets around here are posted at 30, and it's not a problem.

One area in the back-to-the-depression town I stayed in was a wide and smooth 2 lane industrial road posted at 30. In any more relevant place, it would be 40 or 45 I am sure. They speed-trap it too, nothing like good revenue collection in an area where incomes are low and property and business tax proceeds must be sad.

fintail

I don't know if it is nothing to prove rather than a lack of skill for handling higher speeds. Sometimes when I see these people and their vehicles, the low limits make sense. No reason to be in a hurry there though, yes...nowhere to go. But for gods sake, people...a car can corner at more than 3mph.

fintail

Oh this reminds me...I drove north on I-5 yesterday morning between south of Olympia to Seattle, and didn't see a single WSP car nor any enforcement at all! It was really something. Traffic flowed pretty perfectly. At different times I got passed by three rednecks towing boats, they were going maybe 80 in a 60 as I was going 70 and they passed me pretty quickly. If a car going 20 over is risky, how about a jacked up pickup with a bouncy boat trailer?

snakeweasel

Speeding isn't a crime in and of itself.

Ah, I beg to differ with you. A speed limit means that there is a law limiting your speed to that limit. Going over that limit is breaking that law.

fintail

Exactly...and laws aren't right in and of themselves. If some bored cop wants to get me for going 65 in a 60, he can go right ahead....it'll be for nothing.

Breaking the law...ooooh!

snakeweasel

I don't know if it is nothing to prove rather than a lack of skill for handling higher speeds.

Since when is driving at a slow safe speed any proof of the lack of being able to handle a high speed? Geez you have to get off this "I drive better because I drive faster" trip. There is no correlation between how fast someone drives and their ability to drive fast.

oregonboy

I see that all the time: people towing boats/trailers with no regard for the load. They use their tried & true (bad) habits regardless of conditions (including weather).

I recently was travelling I-5 a bit farther south... between Roseburg and Eugene, Oregon. I overtook a knot of traffic stuck behind a LLC towning a horse trailer who was attempting to pass an 18 wheeler uphill on a 2-lane stretch of interstate. He didn't have the power to complete the pass, so we all got to follow all the way up the hill.

Once over the crest, he completed the pass, but stayed in the left lane, gradually accellerating to his near-80 mph cruising speed... until we got to the next hill, of course. :sick:

james

snakeweasel

Exactly...and laws aren't right in and of themselves.

That is completely and totally irrelevant to the discussion at hand. This is not about if the laws are or are not right, its is it right to break the law?

If some bored cop wants to get me for going 65 in a 60, he can go right ahead....it'll be for nothing.

Don't be to sure about that, I have seen people get nailed for 2 over and lose in court.

oregonboy

Geez man... talk about irrelevant. Lighten up. Life's too short.

james

fintail

You say it is irrelevant, but I sincerely doubt you are a credible judge. Is it right to break the law? Depends on the law. As I said, laws aren't right in and of themselves. If this attitude scares you, you're free to...well...not much you can do.

Do you have any evidence of someone getting busted for going 2 over and losing? I didn't think so. I doubt that is your formal legal experience speaking.

fintail

It would behoove you to not tell me what I have to "get off" of...

"Slow safe speed" - spare me your dogma. If it was all about safety, there wouldn't be a limit above 40.

Someone who has never driven over 55 in their life and is driving some living-on-borrowed-time old heap which receives no maintenance indeed has less ability to drive fast...and only to the most irrelevant dumbed down souls is 65 in a 60 "fast"...

You need to visit Europe.

Kirstie_H

Folks, we've got a discussion about traffic laws and what you think of them. Please take a virtual trip there, but leave the personal comments along the cyber-trail, as they don't belong in the Forums. Thanks!

Edit: I know this magic trick that involves making off-topic posts disappear. Wanna see?

fintail

I've seen some fast moving horse trailers in northern WA, too. Never had the misfortune of meeting one on a hill.

There was also a guy with a big tall camper on his pickup who was flying along at 75-80, but I noticed he slowed down considerably when the highway got a little twisty just south of Seattle...I'd say it wouldn't take much to roll one of these, and it's been known to happen. So maybe he was actually being considerate in slowing for conditions.

xrunner2

One area in the back-to-the-depression town I stayed in was a wide and smooth 2 lane industrial road posted at 30. In any more relevant place, it would be 40 or 45 I am sure. They speed-trap it too,

That's good. Locals know to follow the law. If any big-city type drivers are passing through and are inconsiderate of local 30 mph law, or are trying to intimidate a local by riding his bumper, they should get nabbed. Locals going at 30 or five under are not inconsiderate.

atlvibe

A strip shopping center just went up a few miles from my house. Of course, it's a heavily travelled 4 lane road. The road has no center concrete division. One entrance is angled for on coming traffic to enter the shopping plaza. There is a sign posted for traffic going the opposite way NOT to turn left across traffic into the parking lot. The entrance is even angled intentionally to deter a left turn. Of course, the sign does not apply to everyone. It seems that I see traffic come to stand still several times a week when someone attempts a left turn. Even though it's clearly marked and you also have make a half U turn to angle back in the parking lot. Once again it's driver's who think the rules don't apply to them.

imidazol97

We have a no left turn for entrance and a no left turn exit at a Sunoco station close to the interstate in our fair village. People ignore those all the time. I would like to see more of them get hit by the 5 lanes of traffic, but locals are usually careful enough they stop in time for the idiots.

There's a no left turn at BP closer to the interstate. Local cops caught a friend of ours with husband in car turning out and she did the left turn thing. They called another cop car before they approached their car apparently because of her having a permit to carry. They then chided her husband in the passenger seat for no training her right. He's a policeman in a smaller fair village close to us! No ticket, how did you guess.

snakeweasel

Once again it's driver's who think the rules don't apply to them.

Of course, because they drive better than everyone else.

We have the same thing near my house. the entrance/exit is set up almost like on and off ramps to a highway. Traffic entering can only make a right turn in and traffic exiting can only make a right turn out. Every now and again I will see someone who will not go the extra 75 feet to the intersection with the light to make the left turn. They make the left turn there, and to make matters worse instead of making that "half U-turn" they will enter through the exit lane so its an easier turn for them.

One time it happened that I was exiting when some idiot made that left turn, so we were sitting there looking at each other. :sick:

xwesx

Well, if any of you feel like you live in a small town, type in the following in Google Earth.

"103 Columbia, Helix, OR 97835"

It should make you feel better. :P

BTW, that is where I grew up. Great little town. I would move back there if my wife would let me.

imidazol97

What crop do they raise in those fields around Helix with those odd cultivation patterns.

fintail

The road is off the beaten path...99% of the traffic on it is local, and they nab locals (like my inattentive brother). No wonder that area has been in the dark ages for decades, and will never come out....I'd like to see a justification of the limits, but we all know the "law" is beyond accountability and shouldn't be questioned.

Going 5 under with 5 or 10 cars lined up behind you is certainly inconsiderate.

snakeweasel

Helix Oregon, population 183 up from 150 15 years ago.

Try Kaskaskia, IL Once the commercial center of the (then) west and one of the largest cities west of the Appalachian mountains (late 1700's) and the original capital for Illinois. Now its the only populated area of Illinois west of the Mississippi river (the river flooded and changed course) and only has a population of 26.

xwesx

Speaking of horse trailers, there is a big horse ranch on our miserable gravel (read this decaying mud/pothole) road. There are numerous horse trailers pulled down it daily. When the road gets bad, these folks will drive about 2 mph so save their horses' knees, but they weave all over the road trying to avoid the worst areas with little to no consideration to whether any other vehicles are traveling the road. As time goes on and this horse ranch continues to grow and generate more traffic, I am thinking that perhaps they should be paying to maintain the road more often than otherwise would be needed with strictly residential use. I imagine they must have received a zoning exception to conduct such a commercial enterprise, but who knows, anything is possible up here.

xwesx

Primarily wheat (Stevens, or winter, wheat), but also barley, oats, canola, and other crops that do well with the natural rainfall pattern.

The paved roads we have directly around the town are all skinny two-laners with no shoulders. One of the first vehicles I learned to drive was an old '50s dump truck (a real boar with no power steering and a mind of its own!). I remember the first time I took it out to the gravel pit to load it - I was certain I was going to fall off the road because the pavement looked like it ended about 2/3 the way across the windshield. That whole perspective bit was a little nerve-wracking at first, but it was a great lesson to learn. I thought roads were so luxurious when I would venture far enough out to get a shoulder, or at least a fog line! :P

xwesx

Sounds like perhaps a good reason for it though. Not a real good idea to live in an imminent flood zone! I like the overhead shot of the town - looks like a nice little place. Just from the land contours you can see exactly where the river used to run. The fields there now even look almost like they are flowing. Thanks for sharing!

astegman

Here's something you don't see everyday. Yesterday afternoon, I was driving down to Westchester from Connecticut, going on 684 south to the Hutch. Where 684 ends and the Hutch starts, there's always a bottleneck, as it goes from 4 lanes down to 2.

So I'm crawling along, about 3-5 mph, behind some nondescript car, when the driver's window opens and the driver sticks his left arm out...and on his wrist is a very large white cockatoo. The bird proceeds to lift his tail and relieves himself,afterwhich the driver pulls his arm and the bird back in.

Once the bottleneck ended, I was able to pass the bird car, and I couldn't help but look...sure enough, the driver now had the bird on his right arm and was talking to and kissing him.

Alrighty then.

snakeweasel

when the driver's window opens and the driver sticks his left arm out...and on his wrist is a very large white cockatoo. The bird proceeds to lift his tail and relieves himself,

Hey when you gotta go you gotta go. Just be thankful you weren't behind him going 75 when that happened. :P

snakeweasel

It is said that the town is cursed and its current condition is a result of that curse.

xwesx

Going 5 under with 5 or 10 cars lined up behind you is certainly inconsiderate.

Absolutely. Alaska has a.... dare I say it?.... law that if you have 5 or more vehicles lined up behind you (makes no mention of speed), you are required to pull over and allow them to pass. Not that anyone actually heeds that, but back in the early 90s, before the Seward Highway was largely rebuilt, I occasionally saw officers light up at the end of the line, blow by everyone, and pull over a motorhome or similar at the front of the line. It was rare though. Very rare.

When I towed my boat up to Fairbanks, I felt like I drove more on the shoulder than in my lane for letting people pass! Granted, I pulled over to prevent delays for each vehicle that came upon me and I was typically going just a *wee* bit slower than 5 under (SL 65).

snakeweasel

Where I was in Alaska outside the main city (if you could call it that) you were lucky to see 5 or more cars going the other way in say an hours worth of driving. But then again I was at the end of the line, no one was passing through. If you were there you were either supposed to be there or you were lost. Also no tourists (Yea!!!!)

Of course every road led to nowhere.

nortsr1

Not so fast there xrunner2.."Locals know how to follow the law"???? I certainly question that staement. I was a cop for 28 years and most of that was road patrol. Whenever there waere complaints of speeding in certian areas....we would set up a radar area (or trap as most insist on calling it)....Guess who 90% of the speeders were???? In case you can't guess correctly....IT WAS THE LOCALS!!!!!

xwesx

Yes, I have not been to Kodiak but would guess that is more typical for an Alaska road. But, the "normal" congestion I see nearly every time I drive the Seward Highway is far worse than most roads elsewhere (within or out of Alaska). The biggest problem is that people want to mix driving and sightseeing instead of doing both independently. The heavy mix of commuter, weekender, and tourist traffic really plays havoc on traffic flow. :sick:

euphonium

"didn't see a single WSP car"

Just because you failed to see them doesn't mean they were not there using unmarked vehicles and motorcycles.

Speed limit for towers of anything is 60 and towers are excluded from the inside 3rd lane.

fintail

I know what to look for...I've never had even a parking ticket since I started driving...it has to be more than coincidence... I saw one grey unmarked CV heading the opposite direction in the left lane...didn't appear to be in a hurry or after anyone...not a single speed trap the whole time. Just because they use poorly disguised unmarked vehicles doesn't mean they were there. I did see a speed trap on a more rural road though...a real obvious one too. I'm sure it was for safety too, and not money...not that it's anyones business, of course... :P

saabgirl

Some sociology grad student has to be working on a thesis about driving as an expression of the culture you live in.

In most areas of urban New England, the drivers tend to be fairly aggressive. Most regard speed limit signs as suggestions to be obeyed or not depending on circumstances.

But if you get off the Interstates and into rural areas of New England, especially small towns up up Nawth, the patterns are highly idiosyncratic, in my view. Drivers headed in opposite directions will stop their cars on the road to chat. Drivers may slow to a crawl to scrutinize a friend's house, a field of corn or a crow. There seems to be a law in some towns requiring residents, particularly elderly females, to come to a dead stop on the road before turning. In some locales, it's customary to regard lawn sales a parked position on the road while deciding if it's worthwhile to pull into the yard. Rural drivers can have a hard time with green=go, red=stop. Green arrows are generally disregarded. There seems to be a custom that, if you have a passenger with whom you're having a conversation, the driver may maintain speed while the passenger speaks, but must decrease speed by at least 20 mph while replying. Rural drivers are scrupulous about checking that their turn signals are operational, occasionally driving 10 miles with the left signal blinking, and the next 10 miles with the right signal blinking.

It's often amusing to watch a rural New England church parking lot empty on a Sunday morning. It looks a little like the start of a Formula 1 race, but conducted in slow motion.

tallman1

Now if you were going south on the same stretch this morning, you would have seen plenty of state patrol cars.

hammerhead

Going 5 under with 5 or 10 cars lined up behind you is certainly inconsiderate

In Washington State, it's also illegal:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.427

Cheers!
Paul

tallman1

To quote from the link you supplied:
"As used in this section a slow moving vehicle is one which is proceeding at a rate of speed less than the normal flow of traffic at the particular time and place."

Gee, nothing about speed limits. Maybe we can start that argument again!!

xrunner2

In Washington State, it's also illegal

Think that this law is poorly written. Part of it says: "As used in this section a slow moving vehicle is one which is proceeding at a rate of speed less than the normal flow of traffic at the particular time and place."

Glad that it is not in my state.

So, if I am going to work in morning on long 2-lane stretch of mostly double-yellow at legal limit of 55 with no one in front of me and I see a couple (then more) of cars/suvs in mirror gaining on me and then slow to my speed, what to do? The lead vehicle gets on my bumper.

Who or what is "normal flow"? Am I normal flow or are they who were going 10 over?

Am I inconsiderate for going 55 and holding them up for perhaps 20-30 seconds extra drive time to get to interstate?Or are they inconsiderate for wanting to push me to higher speed? Since there are very poor shoulders on my 2-lane and I can't pull over, should I speed up or make a right turn at next road and then turn around and get back on 2-lane?

Who is being inconsiderate?

grbeck

Yesterday I witnessed someone run a redlight with considerably more devastating consequences....

I was on Route 230 between Middletown and Highspire, heading east. I was stopped at a red light. After this light, the road becomes four lane (two lanes each way). At this light, Route 230 intersects with an exit ramp from a special access road to Harrisburg International Airport (HIA).

As I waited (second car in the slow lane) for the light to change, I was vaguely aware of a tractor trailer pulling off the exit ramp on to Route 230. All of a sudden I hear a loud CRASH...and see a westbound third-generation Camaro slamming into the bumper of the tractor trailer.

The Camaro's driver was apparently knocked unconscious with his foot still on the gas, as the car did a 360-degree turn in the intersection at full throttle after colliding with the truck. I thought the Camaro was going to careen in my direction, but suddenly it "caught" and flew off the road and hit a telephone phone almost dead center about 75 feet in front of me.

Several of us ran up to the Camaro, and found two men unconscious, but still breathing. The driver was sprawled on the passenger side of the car, although the center console kept his lower body on the driver's side. The passenger had an ugly gash on the left side of his neck. Neither one was even moaning. Judging by the driver's position after the crash, I'm guessing that he wasn't wearing his safety belt. Don't know about the passenger.

Fortunately, the woman in the car in front of me had her cellular phone, so she dialed 911. The passenger of the Camaro had to be cut out of the car with the jaws-of-life. Both where still unconscious when they were wheeled to the ambulances. I checked the morning paper, but the story said information on the "condition of the injured parties" was not available at press time. The truck driver looked shaken, but he wasn't hurt.

I don't know if the Camaro driver thought he could beat the red light, or just didn't realize that it had changed. But I never heard a skid before the crash, so I guess the Camaro driver never even braked before hitting the tractor trailer.

ruking1

Interesting watching justice in action. All too often it is the innocent or "non at fault" folks that get savaged.

redmaxx

Well, if it's a road you take to work every day, a "normal reasonable person" would assess the situation and determine that if, day in and day out, they get piles of cars behind them, that they are going too slow. Or you could do like 99% of people and just wait for a cop to tell you by ticketing you (which means almost never).

I drive a road that is two lanes in each direction every day. Every day on the way home, I have to pass a stop light. SL on the road is 65. We get to about a half-mile out from the light and traffic is synchronized between the lanes at about 65-70. It stretches all the way back to the light. Then, about once or twice a week, this line of cars will have someone in front slowing down to 60 or 65 MPH. This is a road that traffic regularly goes 70-80 on. Clearly 60 is too slow.

gogogodzilla

At least the driver was the driver...

...I almost expected you to say that the car was also being driven by the cockatoo.

:surprise:

tallman1

If you are holding up traffic, it is inconsiderate (and illegal in some states) not to pull over. Obviously, you would wait until it is safe to do so.

xrunner2

If you are holding up traffic, it is inconsiderate (and illegal in some states) not to pull over. Obviously, you would wait until it is safe to do so.

I would agree with this if someone holding up traffic and going 5, 10 etc under the speed limit. But, if a driver is going exactly at the speed limit, then that driver has no obligation to pull over.

snakeweasel

I would agree with this if someone holding up traffic and going 5, 10 etc under the speed limit. But, if a driver is going exactly at the speed limit, then that driver has no obligation to pull over.

Some states do have a law that states you should pull over if you are impeding the "normal" flow of traffic. But I do agree that if you get behind someone that is doing at least the speed limit you really have no complaint.

snakeweasel

In Washington State, it's also illegal:

Here is a situation I find myself in several times a year. I am going down a two lane country road (one lane each direction) that has few passing zones. I am doing SL+5 and 5 or more cars line up behind me. Yet a half mile or so ahead of me is another car going the same speed I am and a half mile ahead of them is another going the same speed. And there may be more like that ahead of that guy.

Now here is the question, what is the normal flow of traffic? The 5-10 cars bunched up behind me or me and the 5-10 cars spread out evenly over several miles?

ruking1

I have long long ago since learned to go around that vehicle.

ruking1

Given the choice of other roads, I would serious question why one insists on using a two lane country road. Those roads have also been shown to have the MOST fatalities and accidents injuries per capita. Also under IDEAL conditions it takes 12-15 seconds to pass a car moving in the same direction. (as you can guess things are very rarely ideal)

snakeweasel

Given the choice of other roads, I would serious question why one insists on using a two lane country road.

Because there are many places worth going to that you can only get to on a two lane country road.

Also at one time I could take an interstate highway from my house to a friends house downstate with only the first and last couple of miles being surface roads. But the two lane country highway was faster.