Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

andre1969

I saw something really weird. I was going through one area and, all in my eyesight at the same time, I saw something like 5 police cars that had people pulled over. On the right two copcars had a guy pulled over in front of an apartment complex. And at the same time, a copcar with its lights on drove up into the complex and out of sight.

Across the divided road, on the other side, there was a Trailblazer cop vehicle (I didn't realize the cops started using these) that was pulled up behind a parked car in the 7-Eleven parking lot. And at the Shell station next door (a place that gets robbed on a regular basis) there were two copcars pulled up behind a car at the pumps.

The first one I saw was actually at the Shell station, where I saw lights flashing, and my first thought was that it got robbed...again. But then I saw the other cars.

I wonder what was going on here?

user777

i'll disagree and i'll tell you why. say you are behind a vehicle that messes up your situation awareness of the road up ahead.

say someone from another lane makes an incursion into your lane, and the vehicle in front of you goes to 0 speed real fast, faster than their brakes can take them there.

no matter how good your situational awareness is, you don't know the condition of the vehicles around you, their reaction times, their visability, their driving skill, their ability to find a way out, etc.

at least you conceed the 2sec will need to be adjusted based on many factors. some you'll recognnize, and surely, some you will not.

snakeweasel

i'll disagree

Then you disagree with the vast majority of safety experts.

say someone from another lane makes an incursion into your lane,

Ok if your using the two second rule and someone makes an incursion into your lane between you and the car you were following then you are no longer following the two second rule. In which case you should slow down until you drop back to two seconds behind them

and the vehicle in front of you goes to 0 speed real fast, faster than their brakes can take them there.

I would presume you mean they hit something. That being the case unless they hit a brick wall or some other immovable object following 2 seconds behind should give you ample time to stop unless you have bad brakes or tires or bad weather prevents you (in which case you should have given more space).

But really you are being a bit ludicus here. How far apart should cars be? At 80 MPH two seconds is 235 feet, should it be 300 feet? well I can make up situations where that would be to close, or maybe 5 miles? lets be realistic here.

The two second rule is recognized by many as the safest minimal following distance distance.

bigfootxx2

I get happy if traffic behind gives me anything more than 1 sec.

xwesx

But really you are being a bit ludicus here. How far apart should cars be? At 80 MPH two seconds is 235 feet, should it be 300 feet? well I can make up situations where that would be to close, or maybe 5 miles? lets be realistic here.

Exactly. There are always situations that warrant additional distance. As a general rule, 2 seconds is a minimum safe following distance. Should a driver feel the situation warrants additional distance (such as a vehicle ahead on the roadway blocking the driver's view of the roadway beyond), then by all means add the distance.

------

An basic example of "more distance is better" in terms of sight distance comes to mind when driving a curvy/hilly two-lane road and attempting to pass a tractor-trailer. I will see vehicles close behind the trailer trying to "peek" to the left to see if a pass is safe, while the road is curving to the right! What is the point? The driver is NOT going to see around - not any appreciable distance. Often these drivers will jump out, begin to pass, only to realize that there IS a vehicle approaching and then have to duck in behind again.

I will typically hang a ways back and wait to see, then begin my pass from behind the truck in my lane and, after having a 20 or so differential will pop out, make the pass, and pop back in. The time in the other lane is less and I have greater certainty that there is no traffic approaching because I can see around the truck until just prior to performing the pass.

redmaxx

Yep, I agree, don't worry about the people behind you. They are going to do what they are going to do, no matter what. A year and half ago I was rear-ended by someone following a quarter of a mile away. Guy just wasn't paying attention.

Most cars stop in well under 200 feet. My car (only 4k miles) stops in about 120-130 feet. My reaction time is less than a second. You do the math. The 2 second timing is sufficient for dry, daylight, good visibility. At night, in the rain or significantly impaired visibility should cause longer following distances. Plus, you will rarely need to bring your car to a complete stop within 234 feet. A good driver anticipates and surveys the conditions ahead (PRIME reason I don't like being behind SUVs) and can anticipate.

Real world example: I brought my car to a stop once from 80 MPH faster than the truck in front of me under "panic" braking conditions. I was following about 1-1.5 seconds behind. I'm probably one of the more committed drivers out there. I routinely measure my car's abilities and test my own. I constantly watch for outs (and have sucessfully avoided several accidents from drivers not paying attention, simply by being able to make a lane change without looking first (just be aware of how "fresh" the data in your brain is about the surroundings).

Perhaps our difference of opinion is a matter of driving conditions. Here the roads are almost always flat, straight, bone dry, excellent visibility. Makes you wonder why we only get 55 MPH through the city.

euphonium

Like was pulled off in Portland, OR this week. CROSSWALK STING.

deserth8r

As far as reaction time goes, it also depends on how far down the road you can see. If I can see three or four cars beyond the vehicle in front of me (I drive a 4x4), then I can shorten that time because I can see what is going on around me.

It also has to do with the area surrounding the road. If I am on a road with a real nice shoulder, I can consider that an option if the car in front of me slams on his breaks, but on a road with no shoulder, I need to give more space to allow additional stopping distance.

There are so many variables that I dont think a standard "2 second rule" really applies.

When I was a teenager, I probably needed 5 seconds, because my reaction time when I have friends distracting me was a lot slower.

Commuting now, I take many of the factors that have been mentioned here into consideration. I believe there are times peopl would consider me a 'tailgater', but you cant please everyone.

redmaxx

It also has to do with the area surrounding the road. If I am on a road with a real nice shoulder, I can consider that an option if the car in front of me slams on his breaks, but on a road with no shoulder, I need to give more space to allow additional stopping distance.

Yes, excellent point. Rant:

In rush hour traffic I see more and more drivers that use the HOV lane to go 5 or maybe 10 MPH faster than the traffic in the general purpose lanes. In certain areas, when the GP lanes are going 25, you can safely go 65 because there is a 1/2 lane gap and a shoulder.

There are so many variables that I dont think a standard "2 second rule" really applies.

Not so good point. The 2 second rule is a basis, a starting point. From there, the driver is supposed to factor in the real-world conditions, that is all the 2 second rule means.

redmaxx

say someone from another lane makes an incursion into your lane, and the vehicle in front of you goes to 0 speed real fast, faster than their brakes can take them there.

Just how do they get to 0 speed before their brakes can take them there? By hitting something? You as a driver should have been aware that a situation like that was coming up or been following further behind. As a driver, concentrating on driving, 2 seconds is plenty for emergencies. If you are distracted by something, like passengers, or shaving or eating then follow further behind.

no matter how good your situational awareness is, you don't know the condition of the vehicles around you, their reaction times, their visability, their driving skill, their ability to find a way out, etc.

Hence that is why you keep a 2 second following gap. If the car in front of you can't stop, that doesn't matter as long as you can.

at least you conceed the 2sec will need to be adjusted based on many factors. some you'll recognnize, and surely, some you will not.

That is the very definition of the 2 second rule. 2 seconds and then adjust to road conditions.

user777

you must not drive 285 in atlanta.

ever see a ladder come off a truck in front of you, a wheel and tire in your lane that came off another car, or a steel folding table come out of a van?

when i said vehicle incursion, say you are in the left lane, something happens in the lane to your right, and vehicle goes in front of the car in front of you hits the cement median perpendicular and bounces back fully into the left lane. car in front of you will t-bone the vehicle and stop in a shorter distance than otherwise with his/her brakes.

i've seen this.

i've seen a vehicle on 75/85 go inverted like in a dukes of hazard episode. at 80MPH, you are very far down the road before they come down dead.

you guys just haven't seen enough evidently to know your limitations on a 7-8 lane highway. you don't know and cannot predict everything that is going to unfold in front of you. of that i am certain.

hoping your 2 seconds and everyone elses 2 seconds is always enough for you.

carlisimo

We're hoping too. But it's not a gap we can enforce without disintegration rays.

I also don't bother eliminating all the risk from my life. Especially if I'm not getting a bad 'feeling' from something (like pickup trucks carrying stuff... I've certainly learned not to trust their cargo securing skills).

user777

ahmen. i'm not expecting everyone to back off. it's never going to happen. in terms of self-preservation though, part of situation awareness is preparedness to give you as much time horizon to form as good awareness as possible.

maybe someone should start a new forum: things i've seen comming off cars. just thought this morning about the scene of a driver loosing 1 of 2 kayaks which i witnessed. now you have to have a noisy big car not to hear and feel the difference when you loose one of these things off your roof. a mile down he finally realized it was gone. why the delay? no idea.

luckily when this went airborne, it came down in the breakdown lane at the side of the road. imagine if windage put it into traffic...

ctalk

I can't believe I had to blow the horn THREE TIMES in the same mall, and area of the parking lot.

I was driving on the "main road" of the mall, that stretches across the whole mall. The openings throughout the road are to the parking lot. They (the ones coming out of the parking lot) have a STOP sign and not me. So they have to look both ways before entering the road. I came across a stretch where the first one didn't see me, and just went. He at least waved a "sorry sign". The next one was the worst of the three. He didn't even stop, he just went and nearly hit me. It took a 5 second honk to make him realize that I had to slam the brakes and turn the wheel to avoid a collision. On top of that, he started arguing that I was in the wrong! I had to give him a little lesson, on how you're suppose to stop at the STOP sign :sick: . That isn't the end of it though, just about a few feet down. ANOTHER one didn't see me and just went. I had to blow the horn once more. He luckily noticed right away and slammed the brakes.

After these three incidents, I decided to park the car far away :P

andre1969

back in 1998 I lost a perfectly fine running 1986 Monte Carlo to a stop sign runner in a shopping mall parking lot. It was a pleasant June evening, right around sunset, and I was delivering pizzas. As I recall it was a good night too. I had already pocketed about 60 bucks in just 4 hours. I was on the way out with three deliveries in the passenger seat, when suddenly I got t-boned by a teenage girl in a 1992 Tempo.

The scary thing is, there was a pickup in front of me and a pickup behind me, so it's not like I was just a solitary car that could conceivably be overlooked. I was in a line of cars and she STILL tried to run on through!

Because I was in motion, the impact did some pretty substantial damage. Knocked the front wheel out of alignment, bent the hubcap, smashed the fender, gouged out the door deep enough that the window wouldn't roll all the way down, bent the A-pillar just enough to crack the windshield, and also gouged out the rear quarter panel just below the opera window.

Had it been a newer car it probably would have gotten fixed, but it was 12 model years old and had 192,000 miles on it, so it got totaled out.

Annoyingly, the same chick almost smeared herself up against my '89 Gran Fury about 5 months later, when she was weaving in and out of traffic. That thing was a lot more substantial than the Monte, and this would have been more of a sideswipe instead of battering my car in its "softest" spot with the "hardest" part of her own.

One thing that always pissed me off about that accident was that the Monte, despite being about 700-800 lb heavier than that Tempo, took on considerably more damage than the Tempo, which was not totaled, simply because it was hit in a vulnerable spot.

I always wondered how things would have turned out if the girl had been just a tad quicker, gotten out in front of me, and my Monte had been the whacker instead of the whackee?

Maybe in the long run, things worked out for the best because as it was, nobody really got hurt. Had it been the other way around, I'm sure my Monte would have torn up that Tempo and its occupants pretty seriously.

bigfootxx2

All to often the accidents occur on the fourlane highways
people come across the center median on highway 169 anyway. when that happens the 2 sec "RULE" doesn't apply they really should consider a concrete divider

fintail

I was at a mall today and saw 2 light runners! One lady in a Camry ran right out in front of a Sequoia. That would have been a nice crash. Then a Volvo ran right in front of a bottlenosed minivan, which had to screech to a stop. The grand finale was a Jetta that stopped, then pulled right out in front of a sportbike, which was forced into the thankfully empty oncoming lane.

imidazol97

Have been found illegal in one Ohio court. They ordered that the city shut down the cameras because they did not have authority to change the criminal act of running a red light to a civil offense. They had to do that to use the cameras. Of course the camera company is lobbying like mad and the cities are lobbbying. But the year old legislation seems to have legs again to require a policeman at each citation.

The city is refunding the "fines."

Red light camera article

smittynyc

I saw one today, too. This would have been a doozy -- northbound on the Saw Mill Parkway, which is 2 lanes in each direction, divided, with exits, but also with an occasional traffic light. At one light, I came to a quick and sudden stop in the right-hand lane, and it felt like the light was red for 3-4 seconds when a dark import sedan (it was going too fast and I was too surprised to ID it exactly) flies past me in the left-hand lane, narrowly missing a woman in an Audi wagon who was making a left onto our side of the parkway.

It was a really close call. The expression on the Audi driver's face was priceless, but I guess I'd look funny if I knew I'd be dead if my reflexes were a half-second faster. And the red-light runner was freaking flying -- I'd say he was going at least 70.

Let's be careful out there. Seeing something like that reminds me how nice it can be to not have to drive to work.

user777

good point - other people i've talked to have admitted to falling asleep and going off the road into the median and up onto the oncomming lane.

if you have a car comming head-on, there is no 2second save.

redmaxx

ever see a ladder come off a truck in front of you, a wheel and tire in your lane that came off another car, or a steel folding table come out of a van?

Yes. And this is why I have been saying that the 2 second rule is a starting point. If you can't get around the vehicle with the poorly loaded cargo, you back off even further. Personally, I have come to distrust the cargo people carry (I've seen too many things fly out, and nearly too many loads almost fall off), so when a hole opens up, I use everything my car can give me to pass them. Also, I had been following someone with a two second gap once and some cargo came off the truck in front of them. Had no problem avoiding it.

when i said vehicle incursion, say you are in the left lane, something happens in the lane to your right, and vehicle goes in front of the car in front of you hits the cement median perpendicular and bounces back fully into the left lane. car in front of you will t-bone the vehicle and stop in a shorter distance than otherwise with his/her brakes.

That is very possible. So what would you suggest, a five second gap? At 80 MPH, a five second gap will give a "comfortable" amount of room for three people to enter that gap. So in that case, three people could enter and then the person I was following could slam on their brakes, where does that leave me?

when i said vehicle incursion, say you are in the left lane, something happens in the lane to your right, and vehicle goes in front of the car in front of you hits the cement median perpendicular and bounces back fully into the left lane. car in front of you will t-bone the vehicle and stop in a shorter distance than otherwise with his/her brakes.

When you saw that car go skidding across your lane, you should have been braking, HARD. In fact, if it was in front of you and to the immediately right lane, there is no reason you shouldn't have seen it as soon as it happend, it's called peripheral vision.

you guys just haven't seen enough evidently to know your limitations on a 7-8 lane highway. you don't know and cannot predict everything that is going to unfold in front of you. of that i am certain.

Believe me, I've seen plenty. I've avoided a lot of accidents, many of them following with a 1 second gap. I know I can't predict everything, but 2 seconds has always proved plenty under good conditions.

hoping your 2 seconds and everyone elses 2 seconds is always enough for you.

Me too. :shades:

snakeweasel

when that happens the 2 sec "RULE" doesn't apply

Excuse me but how in the world can the 2 second rule come close to applying with regards to oncoming traffic? You are not following oncoming traffic so there is no following distance.

Its really funny how people are coming up with the most idiotic senerios to say that the 2 second rule is no good. I am almost to the point of expecting someone to say "well if a meteor hits you the two second rule really doesn't apply". :sick:

bigfootxx2

be careful please and use your mirrors and this wont happen to you. I was just observer so i was lol lol lol. Sunday night northbound highway 169 Tulsa 70mph. OHP car just came flying up behind at least 100 mph. I had just time move over and he is right on by me. Heres where it gets funny the suv if was not as quick and OHP car flipped on the overhead lights, now that is most times will get your attention well mine anyway, so this suv was in the left lane now moves into the center lane. It was just a little tight behind a cadilac, so now lane is clear right, well no the caddy likely pissed off because the the suv was a little close. Without using mirrors cuts right in front of the police car so now the OHP car flips
on the spotlight and instantly the caddy, lol he got over being mad really fast.

louiswei

Wow, I really have no idea what were you talking about.

bigfootxx2

that s the point it doesn't apply here but and i should not even mentioned it because if drivers would at least try to the 2 sec rule well we could worry about meteor hitting us then please at least try to go by the 2 second rule

fintail

Oops, the jerks I saw ran stop signs, not stop lights.

If anything, it reinforced why I won't get a sportbike, although sometimes I am very tempted to try one.

Speaking of Audis, I got behind a blonde in an A3 yesterday who made about 5 turns, and didn't signal for a single one.

sky23213

Same thing happened in Minneapolis. IIRC, 12 were installed at the worst intersections around the city. Later a judge ruled it unconstitutional - the main issue was that the owner of the car gets fined, not the driver. At that time my wife worked for the Violations Bureau. Fortunately, she landed a nicer job three days before the ruling... As one of her former co-workers said for the local paper "it's going to be a nightmare" with the thousands that would line up there.
I insisted on throwing a party for the occasion. :shades:

user777

to the point: 2 sec minimum yes, and more if necessary. you need good situation awareness, and that means ability to see down the road several seconds. that's all.

idiotic scenarios? i think not. expect the idiotic: remember not everyone is as conscientious and skilled as you.

andre1969

scary as hell this morning. I was on a 4-lane divided road with lights and cross traffic. It was around 9:00, so traffic was still pretty heavy. There was a guy on a motorcycle in the left lane, staying towards the left in his lane. An ES300 gets up right behind him, maybe 10 feet off his bumper. He was going the flow of traffic, about 50 mph, but was about 100 feet back from the cars ahead of him. The ES300 put on its right turn signal, and had plenty of room to get over in front of me, but it took her about a half-minute to finally do it. All the time, riding that biker's butt. I backed off a bit just so I'd be able to react when the inevitable happened!

Well, she stayed over in front of me for about a half-mile, but wasn't gaining any ground in the traffic, so she got back over behind the biker. I swear at one point it looked like she was practically BESIDE him, trying to squeeze in between him and the traffic in the right lane!

I don't know if anything ultimately happened, because my turn was coming up. But as I turned off, she was right there on his rear.

At one point in traffic at a light I had actually gotten up a bit ahead of them, and looked over to see who was driving the ES300. I was expecting it to be some little old Clara Peller looking woman who could barely see over the dash and didn't have her wits about her. But it was a fairly young girl, maybe in her 20's or lower 30's, tops. She did have this glazed look on her face though, like there wasn't a whole lot going on in her mind.

p100

No, I said two FT from the car in front of it. I was being sarcastic. I have been followed on I 95 by large 18 wheelers doing 80 MPH, practically stuck to my car's rear bumper (no more than 5-10 ft). That is why I said that the trucking industry must have figured out that a 2 ft following distance for a large truck behind a passenger car at 80 MPH is sufficient.

redmaxx

Oh yeah, I know what you're talking about, it has happened several times to me. In those instances I like to hit the brake pedal just enough to light up the brake lights. Then you can hear the trucker downshifting and watch him fall back very quickly trying not to "hit" you.

snakeweasel

I have been followed on I 95 by large 18 wheelers doing 80 MPH, practically stuck to my car's rear bumper

I one time on I-80 had a panel truck (not an 18 wheeler) so close to my rear end I couldn't see his bumper. I swear If I could have popped open the rear of my wagon it would have hit him. And this was at around 80 MPH, then it was 79, then 78, then... until he got the message.

cluedweasel

Driving into work this morning I got stuck behind a newish looking Dodge Ram pickup doing 15mph or less in a 35mph zone. Stuck on the back window of his camper shell was this peral of wisdom;

Don't Honk. I'm Saving Gas.

snakeweasel

You're kidding? He would have been much better off mileage wise doing 35mph. Or better yet keeping it parked where he wouldn't block traffic.

wai

In snowy road, you should have at least 4 seconds when travelling at 60 mph at a three lane road. Last winter, I escape from a narrow gap. I was on I95, an accord travel at the left lane at 70 mph, I was at the right lane travelling at 50 mph at least five cars length behind him, he ran into the center median and the car turn 120 degrees towards the right lane, luckily, the center lane has no car besides me, so I can steer around and go to left lane without being hitting at the front by this Accord. Also my ESP helps in this case.

fintail

Looks like cops can be inconsiderate drivers, too

I wonder if he'll get the same punishment as a civilian who rear ends a police cruiser...

imidazol97

""(The trooper) drifted over the line separating the HOV lane and the other lane -- basically drifted to the right a little bit, and in doing so, struck the rear of one of the vehicles"

The ramps have HOV lanes? It says the trooper was on the ramp and drifted out of the HOV lane.

fintail

Yep many ramps here have HOV lanes

euphonium

"This vehicle is not responsible for your broken windshield"

"Stay back at least 200 feet"

This bluff tries to negate the driver from being legally responsible for securing his load. Don't believe these type of signs.

imidazol97

The dump trucks in this area have signs trying to mislead those who don't read carefully.

The signs say "Not responsible for objects thrown from the road" and that may be true. But the usual damage to following cars is from objects coming off the top of the truck's load, from the side rails on the bed or the frame and tires under the bed. They are responsible for that damage.

I've even called the state patrol about trucks with a powder blowing out of their beds. That's an unsecured load.

snakeweasel

We have these garbage and recycling carrying trucks around here that have signs that read something like "If this truck is losing any of its load call 800-555-XXXX".

snakeweasel

Ok driving down a road going through a forest preserve near home that has a 50 MPH SL. I get behind a Jeep that is only doing 35 MPH, we get to a straight section of road thats clear, I downshift, give it some gas and pass the Jeep with no problem.

Well the road ends at a 'T' intersection and I make a right, this road has a 35 MPH SL as it goes by some neighborhoods. Well I am doing close to 40 down this road when I notice that the Jeep that was going 35 in a 50 was now closing in on me really quick. I guess he was making up for doing 35 in a 50 by doing 50 in a 35. :confuse:

louiswei

I guess he was making up for doing 35 in a 50 by doing 50 in a 35.

Did you check to see if he/she was on the phone? That's usually the case...

snakeweasel

Did you check to see if he/she was on the phone? That's usually the case...

Nope, just figured it was just another idiot with a drivers license.

I actually thought the guy would gun it when I tried to pass but he didn't. The guy was driving a Cherokee SRT-8, my experience is that they don't like to be passed in such circumstances.

While I didn't check he might have had a bumper sticker that said "Don't Honk. I'm Saving Gas"

sky23213

"Keep honking, I'm reloading". A few other redneck classics come to mind too.

snakeweasel

That was a comment on, I think, Cluedweasels report of an SUV driving real slow with that bumper sticker.

fintail

People who get honked at so much that they buy bumper stickers about it might want to look in a mirror now and then, if they are wondering about what causes their problems...

Anyway, my choice is "Honk your brains out, it won't take long"

cluedweasel

Don't even get me started on the woman in the Nissan Murano with the "Boycott French Products" sticker!

louiswei

HAHAHAHAHHAHAH...

That's a good one. A blonde I assumed?

crimsona

This one made me smile, saw it on a guy with WA plates heading back south from Vancouver - "Honk if you're happy with my driving"

That could confuse tailgaters..