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Comments
It's called a basic speed law. Some states have one. The sign is not the end of the story.
Oh, and what Snakeweasel said.
I do like that "jail break" LLC bit....are LLCs a symptom of road rage or a big part of the disease itself? I say the latter.
Passive-Aggressive behavior is exactly what it is. Behind the wheel, at home, at work or wherever, the passive-aggressive personality doesn't see itself as unconsciously creating obstacles that drive others nuts. Oooh, noooo. They're "doing the right thing."
If other drivers get frustrated with their blockade tactics, clearly the other drivers needs anger management training. But the passive aggressive type thinks he or she should be commended for creating obstacles.
I've heard that a rule of traffic engineering is that if a car at the head of a line slows down, the next car has to slow down to the leaders speed minus additional 5 mph to avoid contact. This continues down the line, and explains why, if you're the 10th car back, traffic sometimes comes to a standstill even though you can't see a visible impediment. Keep the left lane clear.
It's not up to you to decide how quickly the newlywed in the car behind you is allowed to return from Cubicle City to the arms of his new bride. So drive at whatever speed you're comfy, but let faster traffic through.
I think if you can tap the bumper of the car ahead of you on the highway or starting up from a green light, that driver should be obligated to pay you $10.
"There are the oblivious LLCs and then there are those who think they are helping to enforce the speed limit. The latter think they ARE doing the right thing."
It may appear so, but I don't really think so. They use it as a justification, but I truly think they know they are in the wrong, but just don't care. They knowingly choose to act in a selfish, dangerous and inconsiderate manner.
"We can always hope the left laner figures out others want to pass and moves over."
I would agree with the rest of your post except for this wishful thinking. The LLC's KNOW others want to pass and are actively trying to prevent them.
Not a LLC, but am not bothered by them either. Nor is there a problem with a vehicle in front of me doing the speed limit in the High Occupancy Vehicle lane while I follow him watching the SD scurrying around to go faster.
While KRETP is being encouraged - where are the demands to reign in the SD needing discipline?
I thought indicator lights for literally everything was an '80s thing. The Taiwanese Yulong Feeling had them, but after a while they start indicating problems that don't exist. I haven't seen dead bulb indicators on pretty much anything else.
It's certainly a problem though. And to let two die is pretty poor (but probably 'average') maintenance habits. Could be worse though. Today my friend told me that sometimes her car's lights only seem to have two settings: parking lights, and high-beams. So she uses the latter when the low beams don't work. I think she's just pushing the stalk as she turns them on, but she says she isn't...
Well first off I wasn't stopped just slowing down enough to make the turn. Secondly there isn't much space along side the road to put a vehicle. Finally it is illegal to leave the pavement to pass another vehicle.
Right. Agreed/noted on all counts, but, like I said, that is definitely more the "norm" than the exception here. I sometimes will have people pass me on the shoulder (gravel, usually, as wide shoulders are relatively rare here) when I slow to wait for a left turner to complete the maneuver. Quite obnoxious, really, especially when it is dry and these drivers kick up large clouds of dust in their wake. :sick:
Hahahahaha.... is that not the truth?! Well said.
Keep in mind, folks, that the root of what we are discussing here is consideration. All too often, consideration and law have very little in common. Please, be considerate - the rest will fall into place.
This is becoming a recurring theme for you! I think you saw at least three of these in the past week. Fix-it tickets, anyone? :sick:
So I can buy something like a Corvette Z06 and pay it off by rear ending people?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Oh the "I am so important that I should be first, how dare you get in front of me" syndrome
I really think that many people think its their God given right to sit in the left lane. I mean I have seen people get onto an practically empty expressway and immediately cut over three lanes of traffic to get to the left lane.
Just a few weeks ago I was entering I-55 behind some hot shot in a Civic. The interstate at this point is three lanes and we just happened to enter the road when there was abosolutly no traffic whatsoever, no traffic for at least a half a mile ahead or behind. And this idiot cut all the way to the left lane, he was in that lane before we got to the end of the acceleration lane.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Now that you mention that IL state route 53 is the only major North South road in the far western burbs that is one lane in each direction for any considerable distance. Until they posted no left turns along one stretch of road left turners used to tie up traffic during rush hour. You always had people passing on the shoulder (many times with a cop just down the street watching, so much for peoples claims on revenue generating). Well every no and again you would see someone stop for the left turner and some idiot passing a line of cars on the shoulder and that idiot getting stuck there because the left turner made the turn before he passed and now he cant get back onto the road.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Real curious to know if there was anything to alert the driver, although usually you can see when the HML is lit.
I don't recall having a brake light out, so no idea on what lights up for that, but I know that a turn signal bulb our causes the turn signal indicator to rapid flash.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
There are plenty of drivers who go 5 or 10 mph over the speed limit. Who am I to judge why they are driving that fast or faster? Maybe they are trying to get home to their bride, as one poster mentioned. Maybe they need to pick up a child from daycare and they are running late. Maybe their mother just got sent to the ER. Maybe those that go quite fast are just aggressive jerks who think they own the road. I think it is considerate in all cases to move over... or never go in the left lane in the first place unless you are passing. (And yes, traffic dictates the sense of this sometimes.)
I know every state is different but I don't agree with the SL trumping the Keep Right sign either.
FWIW, I think the majority of LLCs are clueless, not trying to enforce the speed limit. The proliferation of cell phones isn't helping.
Now on to inconsiderates. You know you're going to run into them in NYC. Here's the best one from my recent trip.
I'm sitting in the left lane on Amsterdam Avenue waiting for the light to turn green, intending to go straight. When it does, some total moron in a Nissan Quest (or Merc. Villager) shoots from the right lane across my bow to make a left turn, waving "thanks" as he goes. My wife screamed in time for me to not hit him. :mad:
at least he waved. consideration isn't completely dead.
I don't think that matters. The bottom line is that speeding is illegal. When you see a store being robbed, do you start thinking why the robbers need the cash, or do you call the police?
Anyway, I also believe in moving over when I am done passing, but sometimes the speeder can not wait for me to complete my pass. I think it is inconsiderate of him to stick to my back when I am clearly passing vehicles at at least 10+ mph differential, except that I am not going at 100 mph like he wants to.
Finally, I think it is perfectly legitimate for the LLC to pick and choose which laws to obey so long as the speeder is doing the same.
kidding.
Cars really take a beating there though. Scrapes, dings, and dents are legion. Then with the mean streets, I'm sure tires, wheels, and suspension parts don't last long either.
Are you equating speeding with armed robbery? I certainly hope not.
Anyway, I also believe in moving over when I am done passing, but sometimes the speeder can not wait for me to complete my pass.
I agree with that, many times I am passing someone and pulling far enough ahead of them before pulling over so that they are not to close. This means putting several car lengths between you and the car you just passed. But then you get the idiots that cannot wait and "thread the needle" to get around you. :confuse:
Finally, I think it is perfectly legitimate for the LLC to pick and choose which laws to obey so long as the speeder is doing the same.
That I don't agree with, as I said before someone else ignoring one rule doesn't give you the right to break another. You know they say two wrongs don't make a right (but two Wrights make an airplane :P )
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
*Sigh* You just don't get it do you? Speed limit and KRETP signs are on equal footing. One DOES NOT trump another.
While KRETP is being encouraged - where are the demands to reign in the SD needing discipline?
Face it, 5-10 MPH over isn't that bad. The world isn't going to end, there isn't a sudden increase in accidents, your car won't explode, nothing awful will happen by going 5-10 MPH over. BUT, not KRETP does clog the road and prevent people from driving at different speeds. It has been shown that lanes going at the same speed equals gridlock. Plus, I get on the highway and want to use my cruise control, but the guy in the Tahoe in front with his ear on the phone can't go a constant speed. Instead he is going 60-72 MPH. So what happens? The LLC thinks he needs to "do his duty" and block traffic in and so the LLC matches speeds. Yeah, it's frustrating and it happens every day.
I can't imagine both these vehicles not having a bulb indicator. Every modern MB I've experienced has the indicator.
"Hey euphonium, you're right but I wouldn't try what you propose in Houston. You may end up dead right! "
Dead right...LLCers indeed.
They are similar in the sense that both are illegal, and either can get innocent people killed.
as I said before someone else ignoring one rule doesn't give you the right to break another.
I did not say it gives anyone a "right" to break a rule. All I am saying is that as far as legality goes, the LLC and the speeder are on equal footing as each has decided to break a law, albeit different ones. In other words, neither is "more right" or "more wrong" than the other.
Tell me what has a greater chance of getting someone killed, one single act of armed robbery or one single act of speeding. Also the law doesn't agree with you with regards to them being similar. Bank robbery will get you a few years in prison and a police record, speeding will only cost you a few dollars and no police record, so legally they are NOT similar.
I did not say it gives anyone a "right" to break a rule. All I am saying is that as far as legality goes, the LLC and the speeder are on equal footing as each has decided to break a law,
Again it is not who has the right to break the law but whose actions cause the most trouble. Some one going 5-10 over isn't causing issues on the road, that LLC is. Again you cannot use the excuse that Dick is going 5 MPH above SL to allow Jane to block traffic.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
If you think about it, three lefts make a u-turn and a left.
Think about it. You're going north on street Z. You pass street A and make a left on street B. Then a left on street Y (going south now) and then another left on street A. You're now going east on street A, but you are one street south of the street you wanted, street B. So, you could have just made a u-turn at street B and then a left on street A.
But the real question is, why are you being an LLC staying in the left lane so long (so you can make all these lefts) when you could have just made a right?
In fact, if traffic just moves along in all three lanes the maximum number of cars will have used the highway during an hour.
The idea that the "others" have to use the right two lanes and leave the left lane open as much as possible reduces the total flow of cars when traffic is heavy. When traffic is lighter different logic could be applied.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
The idea that the "others" have to use the right two lanes and leave the left lane open as much as possible...
...is the law. Again why break one law because some one else breaks another?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
1. Doesn't matter how fast I am driving on the left lane, if there are cars going faster than me, I'll yield.
2. If driving on the left lane and EVERY (not one or two) cars on the right lanes are going faster, then move over.
There will be far less people on the highway pissed at me than being a LLC.
Period.
OK, similar may have been a bad word. The point I was trying to make is that when you see an illegal act, you do not start thinking about possible motives, but do something in your power to stop it. Therefore, why the speeder is speeding is irrelevant.
Again it is not who has the right to break the law but whose actions cause the most trouble.
How can you conclude that one action will cause greater trouble than the other? Trouble in what sense? Both are equally guilty.
So long as speed limits remain artificially low, LLCs have an argument. Moreover, it is not "Keep Right Except to Pass" always, sometimes it is "Slower traffic Keep Right". Therefore, if the right lane is moving at below SL (happens many times), LLC in the left lane at speed limit as not breaking any law.
My point is you are not a police officer so your job is not to stop it. That means that you do not have the right to block the left lane just because someone in that lane is speeding.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Then I vote that we send black_tulip or euphonium out looking for armed robberies, and, the next one they see, they force themselves in between the cashier and the robber. That is basically what an LLC is doing. :shades:
Correct. What I am saying is that why the speeder is speeding is irrelevant. Is that so hard to understand?
Well if I see a robbery being committed, I will call the cops, and not wonder why the robber needs the money.
For the nth time, I do not believe in being a LLC, I just think LLC and speeding are equal evils. And, by speeding, I do not mean 5-10 mph over.
Amen brother, Amen!!!!!
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I am following your line of reasoning with ease here.
There is no point in second-guessing someone's motives. Why bother? I agree with you: use the left lane to make your passing and get back in the right. If someone else wants to travel in speeds excess of that others are traveling, that person will have to do so as space allows - motives aside.
The only time I come in conflict with another driver in this regard is if that person does not have the consideration to leave a reasonable gap between our vehicles. In the end though, they always get on down the road even with the little delays now and again.
I am not sure where the perception started that you were suddenly an "LLC Advocate." :sick:
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Which, at highway speeds, equals about a minute of travel time.
The problem is, even with superhuman reflexes, this completely overlooks one of the other big problems with tailgating: it doesn't leave enough room for people to merge and change lanes.
Although lane changing can be abused, it is a necessary fact of life when people are entering or exiting the highway, passing, or moving to or from the lane best suited to their speed.
When dozens of cars are driving right on top of each other, it makes lane changes difficult or impossible. This creates major delays near exits or on-ramps on busy highways, where many people have to change lanes (and preferably not at the last minute, which is another problem).
As somebody who grew up in a small city and now lives in the San Francisco bay area, I believe tailgating is a large part of what creates rush-hour gridlock in overpopulated areas. And that's terribly ironic, because impatience (which leads to tailgating) is what effectively creates delays for everybody.
I've learned to simply force my way in when I need to change lanes, even if there's barely enough room between cars. If the drivers don't like it, oh well; they shouldn't be driving that close in the first place.
There are, of course, legitimate cases in which people might end up temporarily following too close: immediately after a lane change, after sudden braking, immediately before passing on crowded roadways, etc. But drivers should promptly compensate after situations return to normal.
And 3 to 4 car-lengths is not enough distance. There's a reason they say you should leave 3 to 4 full seconds of travel time between the preceding car and yours.
It's just funny that tailgating is always cited as bad driving behavior, but usually because of the safety reasons. People often don't even realize the delays they're causing. Plus it just looks aggressive -- which increases the overall feeling of barely-contained anger that often underscores driving -- when somebody's hovering directly behind in your rear-view mirror.
Otherwise, I'll generally let someone change lanes if they at least look, especially where roads are about to divide, on ramps etc, where often even locals can't handle it. Accident avoidance.
I end up technically tailgating (following closer than recommended either 2+ seconds or 1 car length for every 10MPH behind) simply because on crowded highways keeping 200 feet behind someone invites several people to merge in. Not that I think that you should stay close to the car in front of you to keep people from changing lanes but that it is impossible to keep proper distance between cars.
I believe tailgating is a large part of what creates rush-hour gridlock in overpopulated areas.
No its not, what causes gridlock is the shear number of vehicles on the road. The slower the traffic the more that can fit on the road. traffic doing 65MPH can only have 26 vehicles per lane per mile yet traffic doing 20MPH can hold three times as much traffic (presuming that all vehicles maintain a constant speed and remain 2 seconds behind each other). Following closer can dramatically increase the number of cars on the road. Tailgating is a symptom, not the cause of rush hour gridlock.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
As far as lane changes, I look over, if there is physically enough room for my car and a bit of a gap on each end, then I hit the turn signal and move over.