Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

imidazol97

>I would love 24" of fresh snow.

I was going to think you were crazy--10 inches here in Western Ohio is a show stopper. Then I remembered you're in Alaska and that's apparently in the light snowfall range???? Right?

akangl

I was going to think you were crazy--10 inches here in Western Ohio is a show stopper. Then I remembered you're in Alaska and that's apparently in the light snowfall range???? Right?

Well, not exactly, but its not something that would grind the area to a halt either.

xrunner2

What I really hate is getting behind people who don't clean off their back bumper. You can't see their tail lights. I have also seen the driving down the street with snow covering their headlights

So to answer your question there are plenty of people in snowy areas that don't completely clean off their cars. I attribute it to laziness

Maybe part of the reason is that it is difficult to take snow off of a vehicle with a wimpy snow brush, especially if it is a wet snow. People should carry a plastic shovel, similar to used on sidewalk. You can clean off a car/suv pretty quick with a shovel. Think that many people have not thought of this idea.

snakeweasel

Then I remembered you're in Alaska and that's apparently in the light snowfall range???? Right?

That would depend on where you are in Alaska, some places in Alaska rarely see snow.

tazereli

I find it easier to use the big push broom from my workshop or the kitchen sweep broom. they clear the cars quickly and easily.

Kyle

xwesx

Agreed that push brooms are the way to go for quick snow clearing. Unless it can be collapsed, though, probably not something many drivers could tote along with them! They are great for clearing off the snow in the morning.

Speaking of inadequate tires, it really amazes me how many people wait until after the first snowfall, even here where the event is expected and inevitable, before trying to get them installed. It is not the lack of snow tires that amazes me, but the fact that these people had the intent to buy snow tires and yet insisted on putting it off until the last (or after the last) possible moment. Granted, I do not have any "snow tires" on any of my current vehicles so perhaps I am not being as empathetic as I should. :P

nightvzn

Except at the last instant he moves over to the right lane to take the first spot instead of behind a decrepit old Toyota PU that was stopped a good car length behind the light. And that decrepit old Toyota still beat the F-350 out of the intersection... :mad:

I love this tendency. I'll sometimes cut over to the first spot in an adjacent lane if I'm not cutting anybody off, but only because I know I'm faster off the line than the majority of people (although strangely, this is less the case on the peninsula than the sluggish south part of east bay :confuse:). But how many times have I watched people take the #1 spot only to dawdle off the line?

I think the potential to be first off the line is what these people want ... once they have it, they don't care if they actually use it.

nightvzn

Is that the norm in other areas? Do people clean off their cars? I think some don't do it here because they want others to look at them...

Haha that's kind of like showing off a black eye to show how hardcore you are.

I'm thinking back to life in NY. Projectile snow was a definite problem. I got hit by it more than once. Laziness is a factor. Combine this with the often unnecessary purchasing of SUV's and you have vehicles too tall for people to want to bother adequately de-snowing.

I was a Cornell student in those days, so I walked around campus. As such, I was rarely in a hurry to get anywhere I had to drive to (grocery store, mall, family). I imagine a lot of people are rushing out the door and don't take the time to clean off more than the windshield. This goes under the same category as excessive multitasking while driving: the need to get to work on time leads some people to engage in dangerous and inconsiderate behavior.

nightvzn

Granted, I do not have any "snow tires" on any of my current vehicles so perhaps I am not being as empathetic as I should. :P

I can tell from some of the posts in this forum that snow tires are considered essential in some regions (and that people are dumb for not having them). I can see this, depending somewhat on where you are and how much snow you get. In NY, I was able to get by with front-wheel drive, traction control, and all-seasons. I feel confident that if/when(?) I live there again, all-wheel drive + all-seasons would be mostly sufficient. Actually when I'm there, driving my mom's Subaru Forester, I enjoy finding little piles of snow in parking lots to test the vehicle's amazing get-unstuck capabilities .

But yea, NY rarely gets more than a few inches of snow at a time, although it comes and goes all winter long.

xwesx

Well, the "necessity" of snow tires depends quite a bit on several factors including the current weather (there are rare instances where road surfaces can be so slippery only the best of tires will allow a vehicle to traverse them and also assuming a competent driver!), driver ability, overall vehicle capability/preparation, road grades, and I am sure I am leaving things off the list. However, it is not even an arguable point that snow and ice tires provide more traction in low traction conditions than any tire not so rated - regardless of any of these other factors. Their "necessity" likely rests more with those compounding factors than with the inherent benefit of the tires.

But yea, NY rarely gets more than a few inches of snow at a time, although it comes and goes all winter long.

Hahah. I went to Buffalo once to visit Niagra(sp?) Falls on 12/21/01. It was snowing heavily and turns out that snowfall was to last 5 days and dump 7 feet! on the city and surrounding area. I was driving a FWD Dodge rental sedan and found it to be a highly enjoyable experience. It still baffles me how folks driving half my speed were continually managing to slip their vehicles in to the ditches one right after the other.

The "comes and goes," in my opinion, makes for more difficult driving conditions than "comes and stays" because there is no set level of expectation. Here, the general rule from about 10/1 through 4/1 is "slippery. Sometimes more, sometimes less, but slippery." We usually only have about 6 weeks (between Fall and Spring) where the transitioning seasons create unpredictable road conditions.

nightvzn

Hahah. I went to Buffalo once to visit Niagra(sp?) Falls on 12/21/01. It was snowing heavily and turns out that snowfall was to last 5 days and dump 7 feet! on the city and surrounding area.

Ah yes. How rude of me to forget the northern portion of the state . Central-ish upstate NY lies JUST outside the lake-effect snowbelt that tends to blast Niagara Falls/Buffalo/Rochester, so yes, it's dramatically worse up there.

I won't deny that snow tires are better for poor conditions. I knew people with front-heavy rear-drive old cars who wouldn't attempt winter driving without them. People with FWD seemed more likely to survive with all-seasons. Personally, I'd go the AWD/all-season route if I lived there again. If I had two vehicles, I might consider putting snow tires on one of them in the winter, but a sufficient portion of the NY winter is dry such that I wouldn't want to be driving around on snow tires all winter long.

What always struck me about most people's snow driving capabilities is the complete lack of middle ground: you get overconfidence or paranoia. Couple that with a healthy dose of cluelessness (leaving snow on the roof, locking up brakes, etc.), and you get disaster.

fintail

Today I saw an Olds Aurora with so much snow on the trunk area that it was just about level with the roof. It was like an iceberg. I pity the fool who is behind that idiot when the ice breaks off.

hammerhead

Our snow is usually light & dry enough, it blows off the car within a couple blocks.

Always fun watching Western Washington dealing with snow.
Be gentle, fin, it's just their lack of experience. The knotheads over here can't all use that excuse -we get snow here every winter, and I'm amazed that some manage to forget how to cope with it from year to year.

Cheers!
Paul

fintail

Right now we are getting what appears to be rain and sleet mixed...I just went outside and walked around, and it doesn't appear to be freezing rain, at least not right here. So maybe the mess is coming to an end.

I spent much of my childhood on that side of the mountains...I remember when I was really little, my mom would have her big T-Bird chained up at the first snow, and would leave the chains on for weeks or months! My dad usually ran a Horizon or S-10 Blazer as a snow car...and I don't recall him once ever chaining up or running off the road.

I dunno if this will work, but here are some clips, one with the crashing Malibu

imidazol97

Thanks for the clips. They worked. Bickford Ford commercials got tiresome since they play every time.

The warm ground has melted the snow as the wheels applied pressure on the hills and that's ice! There's a time people just should stay home!

snakeweasel

Well that stuff is going to be here this afternoon. Since we usually get that stuff during the winter people don't have an excuse. But guess what I will bet that traffic will be terrible.

xrunner2

The knotheads over here can't all use that excuse -we get snow here every winter, and I'm amazed that some manage to forget how to cope with it from year to year.

Those of us in snow belt need to gingerly/gently call on our skills from last winter(s) and apply in first snow storm. Kind of like swimming - you never forget how, but you might be a little rusty if you haven't done in awhile. But, also think of drivers newly licensed since last winter (guess mostly youngish) who will be encountering their first snow. Unless they had training time last winter in the snow, this will be first experience.

fintail

Indeed, I don't know if people have coercive employers, feel invincible, or are just stupid.

It's above freezing here now, roads are bare. I'll be waiting for the next snow event.

hammerhead

I learned to drive in the winter prior to my 16th birthday... RWD car, studded tires, lots of hills. I think I'm a better winter driver for having cut my teeth on the snow, so to speak. My 15 year old says he wants to do it the same way!

Cheers!
Paul

xwesx

from many weeks ago, this was in the paper today:

"Injury accident

A 46-year-old Fairbanks woman was injured after her vehicle was rear-ended while turning left onto Chena Hot Springs Road early Tuesday.

Susan Rozier was treated and released at Fairbanks Memorial Hospital. The other driver, age 17, was not injured, according to a trooper report.

Rozier was cited on a charge of failure to yield. Both drivers wore seat belts, the report stated."

Unfortunately it does not go into much detail, but note that the gal who had just entered the highway was cited for failure to yield even though she was fully on the highway and was rear-ended by another driver.

euphonium

A short and quick skoot from a minor road onto an arterial without waiting for arterial traffic should be rewarded for failure to yield ticket. Too many skooters figure if they get in front of you and your rearend them, it's not their fault, but learning the hard way is most impressive.

xwesx

Exactly. I think I had cited some "the person who did the rear-ending did not get cited" instances on this same road. But, for this road, it really depends on the circumstances surrounding the collision as to who is at fault in this exact type of rear-ending. That is why I said it was unfortunate more details were not disclosed.

fintail

Indeed. In this area people pull out from side streets on to 40mph arterials all the time, cutting right in front of traffic. Most of my horn honking probably comes from that. If I had a huge old pickup, how I would love to rear end some of these dopes. Over-aggressive young women in Civics, Eclipses, etc seem especially prone to these pull-outs.

snakeweasel

Went out after the storm claimed down and saw:

- Plenty of cars not completely cleaned off

- a few cars driving 5-10 under the limit even though the roads were plowed clean and it stopped snowing
and the sun was shining

- one car with the drivers side cleaned completely off but the passinger side still was covered with several inches of snow.

- One car in the ditch

- One snowplow in the ditch (Irony)

xwesx

That was quite an interesting end! I have seen a very similar situation to that one before, though in this other instance it was not dark outside (and a very good thing, too, considering the location). What is most surprising, to me, is the general unwillingness to assist. I think that is perhaps one of the reasons why the vehicle is left in such a precarious position - the driver has the expectation that the vehicle will get from point A to B (and back again, if necessary)and is in a mild state of shock/disbelief when this does not happen. So, rather than assessing the situation, the tendency is to seek assistance immediately from a friend or relative. In the meantime, the vehicle is likely left in harm's way... or perhaps is the way of harm itself!

Anyway, noble efforts on your part - I am glad it worked out well for all parties, at least in terms of the immediate situation.

kapbot

Every gripe I can think of regarding icy/snowy driving has pretty much been covered, but here's one when I was the inconsiderate driver.
At least 20 years ago, a friend & I were driving in my Dad's Tercel. We were on rural roads on the way to a friends house. I had been snowing like crazy, and there was probably about 8 or 9 inches on the road. Wer'e talking 2 lane, no shoulder, and a small ditch on either side.

Anyway, I managed to wipe out and get the car stuck in the ditch. As my friend & I were attempting to get it out, a lady pulled up next to us in her Mercedes. She actually yelled at us to move the ******* car out of her way! I hollered back saying what the **** do you think we're trying to do? She managed to get around and about her merry way.

We had to use the jack and raise the car, and placed the spare under the front tire to bridge the ditch, and eventually freed ourselves.

Not more than a half mile down the road, we passed the Mercedes. She had completely left the road and was hopelessly stuck. We honked at her as we passed her by.

She deserved it, but I still feel bad that we didn't see if we could help.

fintail

Don't feel bad.

I wouldn't anyway. It's no different from being passed by a tailgater and them passing them 10 miles ahead when they are nabbed by a speed trap.

euphonium

My son worked the green chain during Christmas vacation to earn money for college and one cold morning he stopped on the road leading to the mill to help an old man get his Mercedes out of the ditch using his 69 Mercury Montego 351. He was a little late for work after towing the Mercedes back on the road, but found out later he helped the father of the mill owner. He always had a Summer job & they hired him during school vacations too. Kindness pays.

xwesx

Indeed you should not feel bad about that. Ironically, I would have stopped to help. While she surely felt stupid and embarassed when you beeped and passed her, I am positive she would feel truly humbled by being selflessly helped by someone she had derided only minutes before... and there is a certain satisfaction in that because perhaps, next time, she might concede to hold her tongue at the very least. :P

nightvzn

Do some hybrid drivers think they own the road?

In the bay area, hybrid drivers can apply for special access to the carpool lane, even with one person aboard. Today I was driving to work around 10am (well after carpool hours end at 9am). There was still a fair amount of traffic in all lanes, and the left lane was the fastest, moving at 60-65. So I was hanging out there, maintaining a respectful distance from the person in front of me, but otherwise keeping up.

Out of nowhere a Prius squirts in front of me with no turn signal. Okay, I'm fine with letting people in, as long as they aren't weaving and leapfrogging in front of me (when I'm only maintaining a non-tailgaiting following distance), and as long as they use their turn signal.

Whatever, right? Rude and irritating, but happens all the time? A few minutes later, as the gap in front of the Prius grew wider and wider and wider, I realized that not only had he rudely squeezed in front of me, but he did so only to hog the left lane. I blasted around his right side first chance I got.

It's unclear whether this was the result of an "I'm a hybrid driver so I have an immutable right to the left lane" attitude, or an "I'm a California driver so I have an immutable right to do whatever the heck I feel like regardless of anybody else on the road" one. But ya gotta wonder.

ruking1

From a discussion point of view, I would more than agree.

On the practical side; the #1 lane, the left lane, aka (sometimes) the PASSING lane has for a very long time, and/or become the defacto SLOW or main lane. Real passing is using multiple lanes in being around folks who either advertently or inadvertently populate the so called passing or #1 lane and do not pass. You might not like or agree or, etc., BUT using multiple lanes to pass is a natural consequence of so called LLCing, either advertent or inadvertent. There is of course NO law that says you can NOT pass in case of an LLC. So if they will NOT enforce the keep right except to pass or slower traffic keep right then...

For example, this past Sat evening, app 630 pm , I was north bound on the 101 to San Francisco in a chartered 45 passenger tour bus. The driver chose to occupy the #2 lane!!?? While I was not paying much attention to the traffic flow, it is absolutely logical that those who wanted to get by a slow/slower moving 45 passenger diesel tour bus, to pass on the left and on the right of where the bus was positioned at any given time and opportunity.

Depending on how one reads the laws, on the keep right except to pass, slower traffic keep right issues, the ONLY one/s that are not obliged to move right are the folks already in the EXTREME RIGHT hand lane. In the case of the 101 that would be like the #4/5 lane (depending on where of course)

fintail

Yeah, that's a good point...it might have been more fun to help her, and kind of rub it in at the same time.

About that carpool/left lane in the previous posts, around here it is the same way. The left lane is often the main lane, and lanes to the right often move faster. Some people think they have this god-given right to get in the left lane and go as slow as they please, to heck with the flow of traffic. Good old fashioned American lane discipline.

nightvzn

I've noticed the left lane occasionally becoming the slow lane. Just today, a few times, in fact.

While I do pass people on the right, I'm always a little nervous about doing so since, as far as I know, it's illegal. I never hear about people being ticketed for it, but I don't want to be "the first," so to speak. (Granted, it's also illegal to not yield the left lane, but that rarely attracts police attention either.)

I read an interesting article on some authoritative site -- it might have been Edmunds. Somebody was giving a pretty informative breakdown of recommended lane use. Some of what the article said actually surprised me, but it makes sense.

So, I grew up in a four-lane interstate environment (two lanes in each direction), and the methodology was simple: left lane is for passing, or for getting out of the way so people can merge onto the highway. With four lanes in each direction, it gets more confusing.

The article gave the following recommendations:
- Far right (#4) lane: in a populated area like the bay area, there is a constant stream of on-ramps and exits. The far right lane is basically for people getting on or off the highway.
- #3 lane: this is where trucks are concentrated. Cars are advised not to hang out here.
- #2 lane: where the bulk of automotive traffic should be.
- Far left (#1) lane: for passing (or carpool).

Although it depends on traffic conditions, I think this basically makes sense. Merge zones work much better if people keep the #4 lane clear, and if there are a lot of trucks dutifully confining themselves to the #3 lane, car drivers would be wise to steer clear. And we all know the #1 lane should be for passing only. That leaves the #2 lane as the hang-out zone for cars.

Of course everybody pretty much does whatever they want anyway

ruking1

.."While I do pass people on the right, I'm always a little nervous about doing so since, as far as I know, it's illegal"...

Caveat (of course, RTFM), for the applicable state. But since you indicate driving in CA, it is absolutely NOT illegal to pass on the right.

I have driven in 49/50 states. (USA) Except for some states' exceptions, they are pretty much the same.

euphonium

But that doesn't stop the motor homes pulling toads, pickups pulling boats, horse trailers, or travel trailers. It doesn't stop the Civic from towing a one wheel trailer either. In addition the speed limit for towing is the Truck Limit, but that means little to most dragging their toys behind them.

As in LLC, I've never heard of anyone being cited for towing in the #1 lane of 3 or more.

nightvzn

Caveat (of course, RTFM), for the applicable state. But since you indicate driving in CA, it is absolutely NOT illegal to pass on the right.

I have driven in 49/50 states. (USA) Except for some states' exceptions, they are pretty much the same.

Interesting. So is there truth to the "illegal to pass on the right" thing? It it common in a lot of states? Or just an old wives' tail?

I know I'm risking going off-topic here, but this is a pretty useful piece of information. Passing on the right has always been, in my mind, a somewhat inconsiderate and illegal but occasionally necessary action. I'm curious to know if that's not the case in general.

snakeweasel

Interesting. So is there truth to the "illegal to pass on the right" thing? It it common in a lot of states? Or just an old wives' tail?

As far as I know its not illegal in any state (i could be wrong though). As long as you don't cross the solid white line on the far right you can pass on the right.

fintail

I've seen insane stuff on I-5 south of Seattle, like rednecks in jacked up pickups towing boats going like 85. No revenue enforcement officers around, of course, as by that time of the day they had met their quota...thanks to nabbing those dangerous early Sunday morning speeders. I don't feel protected nor served.

I only feel a little bad passing on the right...I feel worse when I use the carpool lane to pass (as I am pretty sure it is illegal), but those bad feelings calm me down so I don't brake-check the brain-dead LLC who caused me to pass.

nightvzn

I feel worse when I use the carpool lane to pass (as I am pretty sure it is illegal)

I'm glad I'm not the only one who does this. I don't like to abuse the carpool lane, but when somebody is dawdling along in the implicit left lane, well...

ruking1

..."Interesting. So is there truth to the "illegal to pass on the right" thing? It it common in a lot of states? Or just an old wives' tail?

I know I'm risking going off-topic here, but this is a pretty useful piece of information. Passing on the right has always been, in my mind, a somewhat inconsiderate and illegal but occasionally necessary action. I'm curious to know if that's not the case in general."...

NO, this is way ON topic!!

There has NOT been "MUCH" truth to this for a very, very, long, long, time. The nexus across the 50 states is pretty simple and direct, almost all (actually all, but I don't want to say it is unilateral) receive federal moneies for highway issues. The carrot is follow FED rules. I am sure anyone can cite examples of the stick approach.

Now I personally follow this; i.e., keep right except to pass, slower traffic keep right, a very LARGE % of the time. However it is firmly in my mind (to the fore and aft) that not everyone does and in fact is loosy goosy in the real world. So I can ramp up, ramp down and/or adjust when the situation/s dictate/s. But given the chance, this is one of the principles I personally follow.

I would even confess to waxing nostalgic for the so called "good old days". As a child traveling cross country, a passenger in the back seat, it was always cool for trucker's (normal folks too) to toot their horns and wave and even flick their lamps in greetings and in some cases to aid you in a difficult pass on a two lane black top. So even on more than one lane in a direction, almost everyone got back over to the right. There are of course huge benefits in time, safety and courtesies wise to doing this. I very very very selectively do this type of behavior now, as it can be an open invitation to tragedy; due to "road rage"

To conclude, it might be worth your peace of mind to get the lastest DMV phamplet and see it for yourself. Actually you can also goggle it also. All the best!

ruking1

So these are NOT my words:

..."Passing Lanes ...

You may pass on the right only when:

An open highway is clearly marked for two or more lanes of travel in your direction."...

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/pgs22thru25.htm

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/driver_handbook_toc.htm

See the message from AH NOD, he'll be boc!!

fundad

I had worked for the local Sheriffs here and did a little research. I couldnt find one state that it was illegal to pass on the right (#2,3,4 or more) lanes. Just a FYI

fundad

It happened again today. Some idiot going east was turning south (right turn) and didnt get all the way over so he made EVERYONE behind him have to slow up and wait for his sweet old time turning the corner. There was no one on the shoulder. Why wouldnt he just move all the way over so he doesnt impede all the rest of the east bound traffic? Just be considerate. The same goes for traffic accidents. If they can move the cars, why not move them out of the traffic and onto the shoulder? :mad:

euphonium

In WA, when there is a fatality crash, nothing is moved because the crash investigators have to do their work and if it takes all night, so be it.

When 18 wheelers jack knife, the 47' trailer blocks the remaing two lanes and it takes forever to remove that piece of wreckage.

kapbot

Thanks for the moral support from you and others.

At the time, I knew I wasn't doing the right thing, but I didn't care. If the same thing happened tomorrow, I'd stop and attempt to help her out. What makes it worse is that she was standing outside the car with a sheepish look on her face.

Stormin Norman Schwartscoff (sp?) once said something to the effect of "Knowing what the right thing to do is easy. The hard part is doing it."

xwesx

Fatalities? Sure, I can understand that. Apparent injuries? Maybe. But, the vast majority of collisions that happen are simply fender benders and yet there they sit, clogging traffic. I have noticed many of these (up here, anyway) tend to be between a truck and a car where, almost invariably, the car rear-ends the truck for whatever reason. And, being Alaska where everyone owns a truck and everyone who owns a truck MUST have a ball hitch attached (even though 80% might tow a trailer once every other blue moon), the car typically ends up with a kaput grille, radiator, and (sometimes) engine due to the bumper height differential. So here one vehicle has puked its guts all over the road and the other is undamaged, yet they both sit in the middle of the road.

As for the right turners, they might just feel uncomfortable using the shoulder to turn. It is not legal to use the shoulder in many (some?) areas (one such place where I saw signs posted was Columbus, OH) and/or the person just does not feel comfortable having another vehicle squeeze through. It is inconsiderate, but probably one of the most brief of annoyances on the road.

[Begin Rant] One of my favorites up here is the driver that passes on the right while another driver is stopped to turn left on a two-lane highway. During the summer (with our typically narrow shoulders) this driver will kick up a huge cloud of dust to impare the visibility of other drivers on the road. Oh! And speaking of dust.... ATVs. We seem to have a well-used dirt ATV trail along the shoulder of every road up here. Ugh... the dust those infernal machines kick onto the highway. And, in the winter, it is snow machines incessantly flashing their lights at you as they hop from bump to bump. These things are called recreational vehicles and yet people can think of nothing better to do with them than ride them along the same roads we drive cars? Come on, there has got to be more creativity amongst the populace than that. :sick: [/End Rant]

tallman1

Yup... it is illegal in some places to drive on the shoulder even to turn right. I was in a huge back-up one time and a car got out of line and used the shoulder to pass about 5 cars so he could turn right. Unfortunately, one of those 5 cars had blue lights on top.

snakeweasel

Some idiot going east was turning south (right turn) and didnt get all the way over so he made EVERYONE behind him have to slow up and wait for his sweet old time turning the corner.

We have plenty of 5 lane roads here where the middle lane is designated for left turns. Instead of merging into this left turn only lane then slowing down people start slowing way down before entering it. Sometimes not even entering it completely and blocking the left lane. :mad:

snakeweasel

One of my favorites up here is the driver that passes on the right while another driver is stopped to turn left on a two-lane highway.

Now that is an illegal pass because you are leaving the marked pavement.

snakeweasel

I was in a huge back-up one time and a car got out of line and used the shoulder to pass about 5 cars so he could turn right.

I believe that that is illegal in every state, you cannot pass on the shoulder. However to ticket someone who pulls over onto the shoulder to make a right turn so you don't block traffic is a bit extreme.