Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

ruking1

#998

That is a good advertisement for passive aggressive behavior!!

pjyoung

Here is an article in a local paper:

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=5179184&BRD=1459&PAG=461&dept_id=155725&rfi=6

What struck me was this paragraph:

"Prior to the accident that claimed her life, the Kansas Highway Patrol reports, Shauna was driving in the inside lane of westbound K-10, where she encountered a slow-moving vehicle in front of her. "She was going to pass, but there was another car there (in the right lane)," her father said, "and she overswerved back over to the left, hit the median and flipped over."

The police have no indication that she was speeding. You "defenders of the traffic laws" can claim all you want that she shouldn't have been speeding (again, no proof that she was). But the sad reality is that an absolutely beautiful young woman died trying to get aroune an LLC.

alfox

As much as I detest LLC's, I can't say that the accident in that story is "The results of camping."

It actually sounds more like it resulted from an inexperienced driver who first initiated an improper lane change to the right before verifying that the lane was clear, and then overcompensated for her own move by swerving into the median. While the reporter says that there was a "...slow-moving..." vehicle in front of her, he didn't say whether that vehicle was camping there, or was passing an even slower vehicle - we are assuming it was an LLC.
It probably was an LLC, but the LLC didn't lose control of her car, didn't put her seatbelt on improperly, and didn't make her drive an unfamiliar vehicle - an SUV, yet.

Just some perspective. We can't always blame someone else.

pjyoung

The highway in question is Kansas 10 - the main highway between Kansas City and Lawrence (University of Kansas). I guess you'd have to drive it everyday, but it's not uncommon to find folks driving below the speed limit in the left lane, while others feel the need to go 80+ miles per hour. It's a limited access divided highway with very limited on ramp traffic. Pretty much rural. FWIW - the girl was driving her mothers SUV because her car was in the shop. That most likely was a factor. Bottom line, if someone observed a little lane discipline, and stayed right except to pass, this never would have happened.

alfox

But then if she had put her belt on, and looked right before she satrted her false move, it wouldn't have happened either. My point was that she caused her own accident. Maybe she did it in frustration over a moron, I don't know. But she caused it.

Still tragic. A sad story.

ruking1

I dont remember where I read this, (: but the fatality rate from the effects of LLC are very very low (<1%of all yearly fatalities of 39-44k a year )

So from a numbers point of view, it is simply and sadly not a priority. The other unsaid and undocumented thing is that LLC forces a "defacto" speed limit!! Especially when there are no cops to enforce a speed limit.

alfox

I don't believe it is true. I mean, I believe it was reported, and I believe you that you read that, but I don't believe that the number of accident situations set up by poor lane discipline is captured. It's more in the police interest to report speeding, DUI and reckless driving as causes, and not to get into underlying causitive factors. Why? For one there is the liability angle. They would rather balme it on one idiot than on their own inability to maintain control of the traffic. For another, there is the defacto speed enforcer you suggested. The police will fight forever to maintain a speed limit that they are resoponsible for enforcing.

In most cases, the nobody present after an accident knows what caused it. The LLC certainly isn't going to offer himself up as the cause - he's convinced he is the one who is right. The person behind is in the position of saying that because of the LLC they were not able to control their car, which is defacto admission of guilt. Most of the other traffic in the immediate vacinity blasts past, and it's the uninvolved far behind who stop to assist. They don't know anything about the cause, and usually won't get involved even if they do.

ghulet

Tonight, I was driving on Roscoe between Halsted and Clark (corner of Gay Boys Town and Wrigley/Jockville, basically). One car on the right (VW Golf) was trying unsuccessfully to parallel park, while on the other side, an SUV parked in conversation with a pedestrian. I try to maintain patience while both situations continue. Girl in Golf, "Omigod, I like, can't park under pressure," at which point I offer to do so for her (how damn hard is it to park a GOLF?). Natch, the SUV completely ignores the now five cars waiting to pass. So I politely (please, thank you, brief explanation for inability to pass, everything) ask the SUV driver and the other conversationalist to move a bit; I might as well have spoken in Yiddish, this request was completely ignored. So I wait a bit more. Now there are ten cars behind me (it's dark out, we all have lights on, it's obvious we're there). So I'm forced to turn nasty. MOVE IT, there's a line of cars behind me. Finally, they end their conversation, SUV moves and we all proceed. Dammit, those must have been the only people residing in Lakeview who would prefer to have a face-to-face conversation than one on a mobile phone.

verozahl

"those must have been the only people residing in Lakeview who would prefer to have a face-to-face conversation than one on a mobile phone."

Best place to talk is in the middle of a public street, y'know!

davv62

Having just driven up a good chunk of the east coast, I have recently seen a good amount of inconsiderate and ignorant driving.

The biggest problem on the highways in my opinion is the lack of lane discipline. The lanes are supposed to move at different speeds to allow for an efficient flow of traffic, so when people pace each other across multiple lanes, unnecessary traffic backups result, kind of like a clogged pipe.

I encountered a driver in a white Ford pickup truck in Virginia who aggressively camped in the left lane, then sped up when I tried to pass him on the right. The traffic was heavy enough that it took me a while to pass him. Others were also having trouble passing him.

I came within inches of a speeding ticket in Virginia, when I was leading a pack cars in the left lane going a little over 80 mph (65 mph speed limit). The trooper came rushing out of his hiding spot when I approached, and pulled out onto the road with his lights flashing. The cars behind me quickly got out of the way, and I thought I would soon be having another of those unwanted (and expensive) roadside encounters with the law. But some other car that I hadn't even noticed pulled over before the trooper even got to him, and the trooper left me alone and pulled up behind the other car.

Overall it was not a bad drive, but the left lane campers were a continuing and unnecessary irritant. Traffic on our roads could move so much more efficiently if people would learn how to drive properly.

Unfortunately, I don't think enforcement has much of a chance with this problem. Ironically, the behavior of left lane campers creates the traffic backups that would make it very difficult for the police to ever get to them. Catching speeders is much easier - like shooting fish in a barrel. The only real solution is greater education and social censure for those who do it. If it were to become one of those things that decent people just don't do, like in Europe, you would see a lot less of it.

kinley

davv62

I was referring to driving technique. It is not proper technique to drive in the left lane unless you are passing.

As far as 80 mph in a 65 mph zone, it may or may not be driving properly, depending upon the circumstances. The speed limit is an arbitrary, usually artificially low number, and the best speed may be above it or below it, depending upon a number of factors.

Somehow, I think I am talking to the wall...

karz10

a lot of LLCers out there, my last trip to ATL was full of them, of course the construction doesn't help, and for some reason, the Semi's were the worst on this trip. I couldn't figure it out, there wasn't a lot of ramp traffic but ALL the Semi's insisted on staying in the left lane, and the slower moving vehicles could not figure this out so they stayed in the right lane, basically grid locking 85, that was weird. All the signs still said trucks keep right, I don't know what the deal was. I was able to maneuver through it fairly well, but the person 'following' me was like 15 miles behind me, despite the fact I was not in a hurry and was driving relatviely slow by my standards in an attempt to wait for them.

By the way, I see a lot of talk about passing on the right, how about a show of hands if you've ever passed someone on the right SHOULDER. Keeping in mind there could be various circumstances at work in this scenario, I'm just curious if anyone here has doen this.

Karz

karz10

I'll be the first to admit to it, it has been several years since I have done it, and the few times I did it involved some serious circumstances. For example, a guy entered the highway at substatially slower than the posted speed limit, jumped across the right lane which had a slower moving vehicle in it, all the way into the left lane, which I happened to be in comfortably traveling about 10 over, but he was going probably 40 mph compared to my 75 mph, he literally did this only a few car lenths in front of me, my instincts just took over instantly analyizing the environment, very bright outside, no other cars coming down ramp, no cars behind me in sight, no other cars in front in sight, just these three cars, no room on the left, clean shoulder on the right, so rather than slamming on brakes and being anywhere near this freak, I jumped over to the right shoulder and in less than a second was merrily on my way.

Here's the strange part, this same guy then did not want me to stay passed him, I maintained my speed more or less, but he was accelerating as fast as he probably could and proceeded to attempt to keep me from getting back in the left lane as I was approaching a slower car in the right lane after we had come over a ridge down the road, he hovered over there not letting me get by, I had to pass on the right when an long exit ramp came up, then he tries to follow me, as the road was clear again and very straight w/ good visibility, I kicked it up over 100 for a minute just to get away from him, he could not keep up, my sixth sense kicked in, I began to slow down, saw a trooper a ways down the road coming the other way, I ducked off an exit and got a soda, got back on the highway and was pleasantly surprised to see the lunatic pulled over by the trooper, the rest of my trip was very peaceful

Karz

davv62

Most left lane campers are clueless morons, but some are malicious. They want to block the left lane at a slow speed, and then get mad when people try to pass them on the right. What do they care?

Personally, I'm never in the left lane if I am not passing. If somebody wants to get by me, I move over, because I am not comfortable having people on my tail. Nobody with half a brain would want one car, or possibly more, following closely behind him if he needed to stop suddenly.

Having said that, I am usually one of the faster drivers on the road, so in the majority of cases it is me doing the passing rather than being passed.

I'm glad that imbecile got pulled over, and I hope he got a nasty ticket. I once saw a left lane camper who was so clueless that he remained in the left lane, driving below the speed limit, even when he was tailgated for a while by a state trooper. The trooper finally became so frustrated that he pulled this moron over, and the guy looked shocked. It amazes me how some people don't know the most basic driving techniques.

My overall opinion is that faster drivers are usually safer drivers, because they generally have better skills and pay more attention to the road. For the faster driver, driving is often a finely honed skill and a hobby, something they love to do and work at doing as well as possible. For the average driver, it is a chore, a way to get from point A to point B.

PF_Flyer

Not that I want to contribute to the LLC debate too much, but yesterday I saw one that HAD to qualify. On I-99 headed north out of Altoona. 65 MPH speed limit, with traffic generally moving at about 70 MPH. Vehicle in the left lane going about 60. Not really much of a LLC at this point, BUT... from behind comes an unmarked state police car at high speed, flashing his headlights to get folks out of the way. Comes up on the LLC, can't move to the right lane without cutting too close in front of a vehicle that's about 3 car lengths behind the LLC. As people see that it's a police car, traffic around the police vehicle is slowing up to allow everyone to move out of the way. The LLC STAYS in the left lane and the trooper is forced to pass on the left side berm. Incredible. Once he got past the rolling roadblock, the trooper rapidly disappeared over the horizon.

Oblivious is being charitable.

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alfox

Most state laws prohibit police vehicles from exceeding the speed limit unless warning devices are used, unless timimg a vehicle's speed in order to aprehend. Of course, if they stay with the flow of traffic, nobody would begrudge them +10 mph or so, but all too often I see them traverling at truly excessive rates of speed, like the one you described.

If he was on a call, then use lights/siren. If not, then who the Hell is he to blast pass someone on the sholder and zoom off over the horizon?

But then, who is going to stop him? Anybody get his body number and call in a complaint?

tboner1965

...or tag and then pace them. I figure they are supposed to set the example, and they are the ones with the calibrated speedo, so they must doing the right thing.

I follow 4-6 seconds back of course, and try to make a good judgement of if they are responding to a "call" or just making time down the interstate.

I have called a dispatcher before. I reported a sheriff car that came up and almost hit the back of my car, while in town in the right hand lane doing about 20+ over the limit.

I know police duty can be a lousy job and that "get out of jail card" is kinda nice. But I really feel that police officers should be the ones setting the example.

In my world, I've discovered about half of them do an the other half enjoy the power behind the badge.

FWIW,

TB

PF_Flyer

The trooper came up at a high rate of speed... I'd estimate about 80 MPH... once he got past the roadblock, he disappeared. But he didn't come into the knot of traffic at 100+ or anything like it. About 10-15 MPH faster than the flow of traffic probably is a less ambiguous description of his approach speed...

alfox

Troopers who commonly drive (not on a call, just going from here to there) at 10-15 over the flow are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

If they want people to respect authority, then authority must first be worthy of respect.

oldharry

if troopers travel at the same speed as traffic, they only get to observe the same 10 cars for the entire time they are on the road. In that case you would never see one when you wanted to. Just another thought for you.

Harry

bigfur

Driving from minneapolis to chicago and back on labor day weekend??? too many stories to list here

ruking1

#1020

Actually they use the olden day technique of a cowboy herding a group of cows. Target one and hit it fast! Then onto the next one.

geoffd1

My personal favorite occurs virtually every time I tow a boat on a limited access highway. In New England, virtually every on-ramp has a yield sign on it. I'll be driving along towing a 28' trailer with 5,000 pounds of boat on it and some moron will blow down the on-ramp without looking and try to force me to change lanes. Usually, I have nowhere to go since there's somebody on my left. Invariably, the car ends up at a complete stop in the breakdown lane. Of course, this is why truckers end up camped in the left lane. If the police handed out $1000 "Failure to yield" tickets to these idjits, I'll bet the truckers would be more likely to stay in the right lane.

alfox

Just now returned from an errand, and almost bought a serious t-[non-permissible content removed] in the driver's door! I was turning left onto a suburban 2-lane (30 mph limit) in a business area, from a stop sign. Onc car coming from the right going straight thru, three from the left all with right turn signals on. I waited for the car from the right, checked left again (situation unchanged - I thought) and pulled out.

Guess what - someone was passing the three turning vehicles - and guess who missed seeing her! Fortunately, the years of experience and constant searching paid off (again), and I was able to stop before she even had to slow down. If I hadn't spotted her, she would have nailed my door at ~35 - not a good thing.

Occasional humility is good for the soul. Maybe a lot of the most boneheaded moves I see are really OK people live me who just made a mistake.

PF_Flyer

Yep... we all get the eye openers now and then. Helps you REMEMBER that staying alert behind the wheel is an active process!

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eharri3

The New Englanders are excellent highway drivers. Everybody does within 5-10 mph of the speed limit, people pas quickly and get out of the way, and everybody signals.
It's in town where they seem a little dopey. Frequent faux paus I saw: People stopping in the middle of moving traffic to let someone who didn't have the right of way make a left turn in front of them, people cutting me off moving into traffic from side streets, not yielding to traffic in traffic circles, and possibly the worst, most egregious offense of all: I think it's a Cape Cod tradition to leave stray grocery carts in the middle of the parking lot once you finish unloading them. Supermarket parking lots were littered with them. I frequently had to get out of the car and move them aside to get into parking spots. It's like people up there feel like they're too good to put the darn things where they belong.

davv62

How did you find the driving in Connecticut? Did you travel up I-95? Was it any different from Rhode Island or Massachusetts?

Maybe it is the heavy traffic in the southwestern part of Connecticut, but I find that drivers here block the left lane as much as anywhere else. It could be that with the traffic they have nowhere else to go anyway, but when there is less traffic they still seem to stay in the left lane without passing sometimes.

In my part of the state, there also seems to be a large speed differential on the highways. Some drivers like to open it up on I-95 (80-85 mph), especially when the traffic is relatively light, while others seem happy to go along at 55-60 mph as you said. The drivers who like to open it up (that includes me) get frustrated by left lane blockers when the roads are finally open enough to give it some gas.

Also, you're right about the shopping carts.

oldharry

of mine who drives a very beat up and rusted Ford pick up was in Wal-Mart parking lot the same time I was a couple weeks ago, he is a very large bearded biker looking guy. He was parked one row from me, and hadn't noticed me. As he was getting out of his truck he noticed a very overweight woman load her stuff in her mini van and get in leaving the cart in the row of cars. He yelled at her, "HEY Lady, if you took the (?) cart back the walking'd be good for you and you wouldn't be so (?) fat!" She swore at him and drove off without taking the cart back.

My wife's comment was to caution me against outbursts like that. I just got out of the truck, waved my arm and yelled, "Hi, Dave!" No further comment from the wife.:<)

Harry

eharri3

I dont know about the fat comment, but I dont think telling her she was being inconsiderate was out of order. Most of the time we're too timid to confront people when they show a lack of even a basic consideration for others, but maybe if they get shamed more often they'll be more reluctant to do it in the future.

pat84

I think I and Dave are a lot alike.

jaserb

Yesterday I had a late model S500 follow me for about 10 miles - left turn signal on all the way. Then today I saw an E-class driving down the road with his flashers on. Nothing wrong, driving at normal speed, but with flashers on. You'd think with all the electronic gizmos on these cars they'd have some sort of an "anti-look-like-an-idiot" device for drivers that are too dumb to control their signal lights.

-Jason

bdaddy

Very plausible explanations for these things. The first driver was probably just driving around the world to the left. The second driver was more than likely announcing his intentions to change direction at some point in the future. Very savvy and astute these drivers of German automobiles. Don't for one minute think Benz doesn't have all of these anti-look-like-an-idiot devices lurking in their cars - very smart these German engineers. After all, they bought Chrysler!

karz10

don't feel too bad, and don't buy into that argument either, i have thought about that before too, whether all he stupid things you see are just momentary lapses in reasoning by otherwise good drivers, although this does happen, it cannot account for the multitides of errors I see on a daily basis, there's just no way, plus you can tell by the nature of the driving error and their recovery or lack there of, in most cases

i'm sure that given the opportunity you would have given the 'oops i'm sorry wave' to that other driver, after you realized your mistake, the thing i see so often is clueless maneuvers and even more oblivious actions to follow it up with and i doubt to this day that most of these morons i see ever realize they made a mistake, that's the difference

we all make mistakes, some more severe than others, but many never realize the mistake and never correct the behavior pattern

karz

alfox

You can sometimes tell when someone just made a mistake, and you know they hate it. But many seem to be driving in-your-face, judgein by the way they act, like when they act tough and give you the finger. I just wonder how many boneheaded moves were intentional, and how many really started as a dumb mistake but the other person a) doesn't care, or b) cares but won't admit it was a mistake, or c) doesn't recognize what they did as wrong (as in "Why are you blowing your horn at me?")

Just curiosity - none of these reasons excuses their behavior.

pjyoung

I'm all for the entrepreneurial spirit, but I think this is going a bit too far... http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/business/4061778.htm . Exactly how easy is it to manipulate the mouse pointer on a laptop while driving? Try as I might, I still have to use two hands to "point and click". Didn't it used to be illegal a few years ago to have a "video display" positioned where a driver could see it. Notice that in the promo picture, he has one hand on the wheel...as if you to use this while driving. I hope the fellows company has a great liablity insurance policy...I think in due time he's gonna need it. Sheesh.

alfox

the entreprenurial spirit feeds into the Big Brother and Traffic Enforcement thread, LOL.

bdaddy

Great. Just one more thing to detract from a driver's concentration - a laptop holding device for use in a motor vehicle. I know the manufacturer will say, "it's not meant to be used by someone in a MOVING vehicle." Right.

Just yesterday I saw a woman on her cell phone blow through a red light, in the right hand turn only lane, going straight. She was oblivious to her mistake. Just imagine what bone heads can and will do with a display and keyboard in front of them.

alfox

and watching his efforts intently in his mirror - in stop/go traffic.

maltb

That's not so bad if you can do it with one hand. I shave on the way to work at 6am.

alfox

Not staring at yourself intently in the mirror, I hope, LOL.

PF_Flyer

... I JUST missed witnessing a fatal accident last night just down the road from my house. But it couldn't have happened more than 30 seconds to a minute before I arrived at the intersection. Rural roads that cross at right angles. Stop signs on the north-south road. Fair amount of traffic heading west at 6PM. From looking at the cars and skid marks, and reading the preliminary police report in the morning paper, the northbound driver simply didn't stop at the stop sign... and plowed right into the front passenger side door of the eastbound vehicle. One dead, several critically injured. No indications yet of cell phone use, DUI, or any other stuff that someone might want to legislate away. The only way this accident doesn't happen is if the guy obeys the rules of the road...or pays attention.

Very sad... the road was tied up for three hours because they had to cut the car open to extract victims. Several helicopter "life flights" also involved.

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karz10

i see value for some people in having a mounting platform of some type for their laptop, i always thought it would be nice to have one that would adjust over to the driver when he is not moving, or slide over for the passenger either moving or not, on a long trip i could wrap up a lot of week ending work, thus allowing me to leave earlier theoretically if someone else was driving

but i totally agree it could be abused, just like anything else, on several occasions i have seen police driving down the street messing w/ their computers, at night it is fairly easy to determine this, as the screen glows on their face and arm i can see where their attention is, ever looked in a police car recently? talk about distractions, it's like a cockpit in there

on one hand, i think this could lead to a problem as no matter how good a driver you are, if you take your eyes off the road while moving, anything can happen

on the other hand with this (laptop) and more importantly with less distracting items such as cell phones, it's all about discression, judgement and ability, a phone does not take your eyes off the road (or at least it shouldn't), as i've said before, if the conversation is more important (thus requiring more concentration or extensive note taking) i would stop and talk, but if driving where i am going is more important than the conversation (not requiring extreme focus and note taking), i can easily drive for hours while on the phone, but then again I've been doing it for probably 9 years now and have an affinity for multi-tasking to begin with, people should know their limits

karz

PF_Flyer

I'm not sure that the guys in the incident I saw this morning even make it all the way up to inconsiderate in the dictionary. They appear to have stopped at incompetent...LOL

I had just gotten into my car in the parking lot of the building supply store and had to wait because the car parked next to me was pulling out, leaving two empty spaces to my right. I was about to back out, when another car came down the aisle looking to park, so I sat still. He went to park in the second spot to my right, leaving an empty spot. (Well it WAS closer to the store) The spot directly in front of the spot he was pulling into was also empty, so I was prepared to see the "pull through and park" move. HOWEVER... at the same time, a vehicle coming down the next aisle pulled into the pull through spot.

I KNOW what you're thinking... they both tried to pull through and WHAMO... nope... they saw each other and both stopped about 5 to 6 feet short of pulling all the way into their spots.

That was when they both decided to pull in all the way at the same time and met right at the line dividing the two spots. They hit each other while looking right at each other!

I laughed all the way home!

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ruking1

#1044

Just be glad you fled the scene fast enough so you didn't have to do witness duty!!

PF_Flyer

I think they were too embarrassed to get into an arguement over it. Besides, nobody would "win" based on my testimony. This was a complete dead heat. I'd bet the impact point bisected the parking lot line! It was a lot like watching an automotive version of the Three Stooges.

eharri3

My father is on his new 2001 Honda Shaddow 1100 cruiser pulling out of the gas station making a right turn. Car turning left onto the same road from the opposite direction off a small side street. The car decides to pull out after my father has already started moving. I guess he either wasn't completely alert or thought he could bully his way in.

To make a long story short: 3 months in a coma, 6 in rehab, and a month of home therapy later my dad's starting to walk almost as well as he used to and his short term memory is 90 percent back to normal.

Moral of the story: Take an extra hard look before changing lanes and always make an effort to be extra accommodating to motorcyclists, even when they're not technically in the right. They're just like pedestrians... they take up an extremely small portion of your view of the road and it only takes the blink of an eye to make a mistake that could be inconvenient for you but deadly for them. From a driver's perspective, I believe that when the odds of survival are so strongly slanted in your favor in the event of a collision, you must shoulder an extra portion of the responsibility to stay alert. Same principal applies to truckers.

alfox

Hope he continues to improve. Actually, from what you describe, sounds like he was in the right. But the observation is valid just the same - right or wrong, a little extra precaution can save a life.

ruking1

#1047

If I visualize the situation correctly, the left hand turning car is most likely at fault. Was the driver of this car found at fault?

I was sorry to hear about your father's accident. I am sure it was a painful recovery.

pjyoung