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Comments
Nevertheless, I absolutely agree with the point of your post. A camera, however, will provide no such situational discretion.
As for camping vs. going, I am willing to bet that a good number of the law enforcement folks around here would give a driver choosing the latter option enough hassle as to make that person wish the first choice was made!
Unfortunately the city roads (and highways) are full of nuts that insist in exceeding the speed limit by a very high margin.
When one of these pinheads decides to race on city roads and ends up crashing into you, who has just decided that it is safe cross the intersection with the malfunctioning light, what then?
I know this is way out there as an example but it could happen.
There could be a motorcycle rider you did not see because he was approaching at a high rate of speed. Or worse, at night someone hits you because he had no functioning headlights and you could not possibly see him or her.
I start my commute very early (around 5 AM) and there is always someone on the road with missing lights. Sometimes NO lights.
Again, it is one of those things where the user must be aware of the surroundings. Even a go on green is no guarantee of a safe crossing. Just last week I posted about some yahoo jumping the median and sprinting across an intersection (pseudo-left turn) where I would have been had I not seen it and waited. I am not advocating the treatment of light-controlled intersections as though they were 4-way stops, but I am saying that there is certainly room for a driver's judgement to trump strict obedience to the light given proper conditions.
I think this is an ideal world, even if the people and situations on it are not.
Works great, which must be the reason so many areas do not employ that tactic. :sick: :P
This town also has nearly perfectly sequenced lights. Maybe it's easier when there are less of them to time, or maybe they actually care.
The drawback with timed lights is that they change on a pre-determined schedule regardless of traffic. The benefit is that once a driver is stopped at one, there is little chance of catching another red unless traffic is moving either too slow or too fast.
I certainly appreciate the sensor-activated lights as well, especially in areas where cross traffic is very sporadic. However, in high congestion areas during peak use times, the presence of traffic from all directions is a given. The only thing sensor-driven lights accomplishes there is to ensure that light is not in time with any other light in the area.
For those intersections, employing all three tactics might be an ideal way to go - or just install roundabouts and forget all this light mumbo-jumbo, but then one is guaranteed an intersection delay every time through! :P
I dunno, but it is Friday night and I am just about to head home. I hope for sane conditions on the trek there.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Pedestrians Traveling through Roundabouts
Since traffic is continually flowing in and out of the roundabout and is not controlled by a signal, there is no time when a pedestrian can be reasonably certain that a vehicle will not pass over the crosswalk. Roundabouts can also be difficult for visually impaired pedestrians to determine the moment when it is safe to cross as many utilize traffic sounds to determine when a roadway is clear. Additionally, the route pedestrians must take around a roundabout is longer than the route they would take to walk through many signalized intersections.
Bicyclists Traveling through Roundabouts
Bicyclists can travel through a roundabout either as a vehicle (within the roundabout) or as a pedestrian (walking their bicycle). Some multi-lane roundabouts utilize an adjacent one-way trail where bicyclists approach the roundabout on-street, merge with the side trail via a ramp, travel around the roundabout on the trail, and then re-merge with the street via another ramp. This option presents some challenges with motor vehicles yielding at crossing points (similar to pedestrian issues described above). Notably, the reduced speeds of motor vehicles within the roundabout more closely match a bicyclist’s typical speed range (approximately 10 - 20 mph).
Emergency Vehicles
Emergency vehicles cannot speed through a roundabout like they can a signal light; they need to slow down and pass through the circle like regular traffic. Additionally, traffic signals offer the option for signal preemption to provide the green light to emergency vehicles; roundabouts require travelers to yield to emergency vehicles. The proposed locations on SR 4 would not be appreciated by the drivers of E.V. Check with the State Patrol before planting any roundabouts on SR 4. Neither would the city fire vehicles negotiate the obstacles without considerable waste of time answering a fire or any emergency.
Lighting
Illumination costs may be greater for a roundabout than a standard intersection as more lighting is typically required. More lighting may also be a concern of adjacent property owners, especially near residential areas
Snow Removal
As with any new roadway configuration, highway maintenance staff will need to learn new snowplowing techniques
Parking
The construction of a roundabout to replace an existing traditional signalized intersection may result in the loss of some on-street parking if allowed near the former intersection.
Right-of-Way Requirements
The construction of a roundabout typically requires more right-of-way than a traditional intersection controlled by traffic signals or stops signs, which may increase the cost of a roundabout installation if right-of-way must be purchased.
Roundabouts may work in Europe where the cars and streets are much smaller, but over here it is not uncommon to see a 45’ motor coach pulling a toad, or a ¾ Ton pickup hauling a 5th wheel, or a tandem axle trailer with boat.
Roundabouts are not recommended, but wider intersections are because they are safer and handle the traffic with more efficiency.
Right now there's just one at the hospital entrance that I know about. I like 'em. The one they are building at the school is gonna be trouble though for the pedestrian reasons mentioned. They really should just reroute the 5th street and make it a normal 4 way intersection.
Road construction during the winter? What kind of wimpy winters do you have down there in "tropical" Boise, Steve?! :P
As for pedestrians, it is not a roundabout problem - it is a driver problem and it happens at all crosswalks.
link title
james
That roundabout I showed is controlled by stop signs.
Roundabouts can also be difficult for visually impaired pedestrians.....
I would think that would be the same issue at any intersection or crosswalk.
Emergency vehicles cannot speed through a roundabout like they can a signal light;.....
Most emergency vehicles I see going through an intersection tend to go slowly anyway for safety reasons.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
It would be interesting to see statistics on accidents/crashes of roundabouts vs traffic light control intersections in a same city study with intersections having similar traffic volumes.
There is a roundabout in a suburb (Des Plaines) in my area that was miserable to negotiate in rush hour. I recall going through roundabouts in small towns out east (think Jersey) in a number of trips years ago and was not especially a problem because of light traffic.
A roundabout at a busy intersection in a suburb with shopping centers nearby and corporate offices and drivers (inconsiderately) using cell phones extensively would be an ongoing disaster. Might as well build a fire station/paramedic facility nearby to service all of the crashes.
Actually, In several countries that I've driven in they are no problem. For us here it would simply be a learning experience.
The key would be a breakdown of the pros and cons of roundabouts. It would seem that safety would trump a lot of other things such as cost to build and maintain traffic light system of regular intersection. If someone could prove statistically that roundabouts are safer (for like traffic volumes) than traffic light intersection, then a case could be made for these configurations. Of course, then there is the learning curve. Also, have to deal with cell phone drivers. Driving while talking on cell phone will require more attention by driver to get through roundabout than merely obeying red/green lights.
One of them replaced a very odd 5 way intersection and traffic throughput has more than doubled.
No waiting times or accidents anymore. People got used to them very quickly.
Do you mean for example a four-way intersection? Maybe in rural areas where locals "know" to look and proceed with caution.
In general, it seems that most drivers are conditioned to drive through an intersection unless there is a stop sign or traffic light telling them to stop. They understand that it is automatic or ok to go straight aghead and they assume that cross traffic has to stop because of a stop sign they have to obey.
I like them because you don't have to wait seemingly forever at some red lights, nor do you have to deal with the nonsense that occurs at 4-way stops (people not stopping, moving out of turn, etc.)
The thing about emergency vehicles is that they normally slow WAY down at conventional intersections anyway, especially if they have to run the red light.
Regardless of statistics, though, people are always going to be resistant and/or hesitant of change. We are creatures of habit.
"Pedestrians and motorists, faced with the need to be more aware of their surroundings and take greater care, have responded positively."
And this link talks about how less signage for cars works in the Netherlands.
Thats the one I referenced, Golf road (we used to call it goffer hole road) just before it goes under Northwest Highway (which really isn't a highway) or just after depending on which way you go. I used to use that roundabout all the time (maybe 3 times a week) during rush hour and really never had much of an issue.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Unidentifiable car in the ditch on the Ohio turnpike, submerged up to the roof pillars in water.
Chevy Aveo on the Ohio turnpike, kissed the median strip barrier, which did a good little number on the front-end.
Pontiac Aztek, upside down and facing the wrong way, coming out of the fog off a mountaintop in Maryland
2002-2005 Ford Explorer on the I-70 median, looked like it rolled a couple times, ended up right-side up, about 20 miles west of Frederick.
Unidentifiable car off in the woods at an exit ramp on I-70 in Maryland, surrounded by rescue personnel.
We've been going through a major dry spell around these parts, but suddenly a rainy front came through Saturday nite. Guess people suddenly forgot how to drive in the rain? :sick:
The Aztek wasn't an accident, it was proof that there is a god.. heh heh.. couldn't resist.
At the intersection of two well-traveled road in the middle of town there is a traffic circle. Over the 40 years it has been there it has been the scene of multiple accidents usually due to drivers failing to yield right-of-way.
NYS in it's wisdom redesigned this circle several years ago so that people would stay in the same lane all the time they were in the circle. Large signs and pavement markings gave people ample notice of which lane they should be in for example: "Rt. 9 south right lane" or Route 2 west left lane." Simple really. In addition, it has always been the law that cars entering the circle must yield to those in the circle or exiting the circle.
The other day I'm driving through the circle in the inner lane when a woman in a mini-van makes a 90 degree turn in front of me while changing lanes. (Remember, changing lanes is a no-no). I honk and get the finger for my trouble.
A few days later I'm in the same position when a woman yacking on a cell phone blows through the yield sign as she enters the circle and comes within inches of getting T-boned by me.
I guess the most high tech solution can't compensate for the circle jerks. :sick:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
God: Wait a minute there are still some Azteks on the road????!!!!! :mad:
Grrrr
Lighting Bolt boom crash flipped over Aztek. :sick:
Darn it! I missed another red light camera debate. Oh well, I can add my two cents again.
You make the mistaken assumption that the equipment is infallible. This is a highly invalid assumption, since we have already seen a camera on the 101 "catch" a driver going faster than his car could go. Also I had a defensive driving class years ago, where many people that were there, with pictures to prove it, were wrongly issued tickets.
Let's recap:
Red light cameras:
- Issue tickets well after the fact, they do not give immediate notification.
- Issue false postives
- Are used to reduce police presence
Red light cameras do not:
- Catch drunks
- Catch distracted drivers
- Catch illegal lane changes
- Catch equipment problems
- Catch drivers without headlamps
- Catch right on red
- Are often used only on the most traveled direction
- Are not used at every light
- Are used to violate your constitutional rights
And that's just the short list. In this day and age, we should not accept anything less than an intelligent human being providing true, complete enforcement to our roads. We should not accept these poor revenue enhancing substitutes.
Seems to me though, that a motorcycle cop hiding in ambush on a sidewalk is an accident and lawsuit just waiting to happen. Especially if it's a sidewalk with a lot of pedestrian traffic.
using that logic we should stop enforcing the law altogether as nothing is infallible. People get falsely accused all the time and some even get falsely convicted.
Red light cameras do not:
For most of what you say they are not supposed to do those things, but they can free up resources that can go after those. But let me address a couple of them.
Are often used only on the most traveled direction
All the ones I have seen have them in every direction.
Are used to violate your constitutional rights
You have a constitutional right to run red lights? I think that argument is a stretch.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Except that they don't "free up more resources" to go after those other offenses. There has not been a corresponding increase in police patrols with the use of red light cameras.
Plus, just the presence of police at an intersection, even while pulled over with an offender, has a deterent effect on other drivers - and not just with red-light running.
snakeweasel: You have a constitutional right to run red lights? I think that argument is a stretch.
That's not what he said.
Suggesting that the accused retains the right of due process and the right to confront the accuser, even for a relatively minor offense, is not the same thing as saying that the accused has a right to commit the offense.
I am sure some of the blindly deferential/inheritance elite/crony capitalist/imagined tycoon types here will still defend the revenue enforcement scofflaws.
There's a whole series of Jimmy Justice videos on Youtube.
This one
Youtube.com jimmy justice
Shows the side of a police car parked in front of a fire hydrant. Does it say "Courtesy" on the back door? I'm having trouble reading it.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
You forgot to include the retired military officer who defended you in two wars after spending most of his adult life in harm's way.
You failed to mention the elite business person who took many business risks to make it big, but others haven't the testicular fortitude to do the same because they are "satisfied" with their little financial cocoon, thanks to union mentality.
I should make a youtube video of the sticking stoplight on my morning commute (which I had to run again the other day). I am sure a red light camera would be justified in nabbing me there, and I should be expected to sit and wait for maybe 30 minutes until another car comes along to maybe trip the switch.
Luckily, my fair city, while completely unable to sequence lights and manage traffic, has not resorted to lowest common denominator tactics such as these cameras which truly exist to subsidize yet another well-connected pseudocapitalist.
Defended me, oh time for the hip waders.
Capitalist...hehe...some believe that actually exists, in their little realm of bizarro world socialism where the many fund the good of the few :P
Coming back from the dentist this am, I signaled and moved into a plenty big enough gap so I could get over to the left lane for a shopping errand. Got beeped at by some yahoo in an X5. I flipped 'em off with a peace symbol - my license plate holder may have to come off my Outback so I can flip with impunity, lol.
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