Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

3233

Mercedes drivers, in my experience, tend to be fairly fast but defensive drivers. I try not to characterize people by the car that they drive, but MBs are designed to be driven comfortably at highway speeds for long distances and generally don't like being tossed around (E and S class sedans mainly). I have, though, seen a few spoiled teen girls driving an SLK convertible, talking on their cell phone and weaving in and out of traffic, that make you wonder what their parents were smoking when they gave them a 40K car...

I saw a heck of an inconsiderate driver today. I'm in the left lane passing a couple of cars in the middle lane, and out of nowhere this guy comes flying through. I was going 80; he had to have been in the triple digits. A mile later I see him pulled over near the usual hideout of the cops. Going that fast (and so recklessly) in a 65 zone gets you into a world of hurt in Georgia, and he'll be lucky to keep his license.

Talking about the Autobahn, it's truly a great experience. I was in Germany a few years ago and we took a diesel Mercedes minivan on an unrestricted part. Our driver managed to hit 115 (mph) in a vehicle that probably didn't have much more power than a Toyota Corolla. We were passed plenty of times by people going 150 or more in sports cars. It's a shame that we can't get a similar system in the U.S., especially since we have so much more open road. Instead of ticketing speeders the police could crack down on LLCers

fintail

Some Europeans probably liked that van, too - I know big American cars have a good following in the Netherlands and throughout Scandinavia...and I have read about a
little cult following for old Dodge Ram vans in Austria of all places.

Someone exporting a van like that probably got the customs vandals a little suspicious...or maybe they saw "Up In Smoke" too many times :shades:

fintail

Something for the cell phone thread...maybe police cars could have several angled cameras to catch the yappers, and then issue the tickets. I swear, I see more people talking and "driving" lately more than ever...and I use the term "driving" very loosely.

The thought of the average local dumbed down driver, who can barely put a Camcord into a wide shopping mall parking spot (but drives a Denali anyway :sick: ), being able to drive triple digit speeds, is frightening. There would have to be graduated licensing and some way to monitor who drives where. I'd go for one of those licenses though...

xwesx

It's a shame that we can't get a similar system in the U.S., especially since we have so much more open road.

Montana experimented with that in the '90s and the end result was that enough drivers couldn't handle the lack of a speed limit, so it was reinstated at 75 mph (if I recall correctly). I was driving through there, in July of '99 on I-90, on a long straight stretch of road at 65 mph (self-imposed max speed in my '69 Chevy C20 for fuel economy and drivetrain longevity reasons!) and was passed by someone going at least double my speed. All I could tell is that it was a red car of some sort.... It came and went so fast that it was a little unnerving, but I guess traffic was exceptionally light so no harm done (thankfully!).

xwesx

Yeah, I bet so! And, it came ashore in Amsterdam of all places! :P

I found a photo he sent me from that stint in Germany; I guess it was 2004 rather than 2003 (We replaced the engine in late December 2003):

fintail

Ooh, a Catera cop car no less....funny that something that was essentially an Impala in that market was sold as a higher line car here...I saw a few of those in taxi service, but when I was there all police cars I noticed were 3er wagons or VW Transporters, and I don't recall seeing a single person pulled over.

That's probably the only big old Chevy van within 1000 miles of there.

snakeweasel

I was heading into work yesterday the road was two lanes each way I am in the left lane with no traffic in front of me a Toyota right behind me and no other traffic behind me for at least a block. I am doing SL or a bit more heading up to an intersection with a green light. As I come to the green light I come to a stop, the guy behind me slams on his brakes, swerves into the right lane, guns it, blows his horn, then slams on his brakes and misses the ambulance making the left turn in front of us by about a foot or two.

How do you miss a big truck with red flashing lights and making a lot of noise?

imidazol97

>How do you miss a big truck with red flashing lights and making a lot of noise?

Sounds like he was focusing on you and how to get you to relinquish his lane to him so he could "go fast," and he wasn't driving carefully. :confuse: He was blinded by his desire to dominate the left hand lane.

jensad

I am glad snakeweasel that you did not get hit by that Toyota driver. I don't know but I wonder how many accidents are caused by angry drivers? I do know that road rage is real and innocent other drivers often receive the brunt of the misdirected rage.

Having chased many vehicles at over 100 mph on the "old job" it is scary to do and yet you get used to going fast and I bet it too can be addictive, especially in countries that allow unrestricted speed limits.

Today, I am aware that I do like to go 75-80 and I try to be careful. (If my wife is with me I do low down as she gets nervous on long trips.

However it was sobering to see a vehicle melted into a cement off ramp with the distance no longer about 16 feet long, now, maybe 10 feet. Unfortunately many times the drivers of the vehicles were dead. Good reminder to me to slow down.

Good luck to all and stay safe - enjoy the week end.

jensad

elias

my recollection was reading some reports that it was the highway patrol who had "difficulty" with the no-limit, in that they were totally inconsistent about criteria for handing out speeding tickets. Some officers would issue tickets for 75 mph, while others wouldn't think about it unless the driver was >>100 mph.
(Apparently the prima-facie speed law is difficult to apply consistently without a posted-limit to use as a 'guideline'.)

euphonium

Is it the driver who provokes or the reaction driver who decides to rage after being provoked?

snakeweasel

Its the driver who rages. They have a choice and they decide to rage.

xwesx

Agreed. Communication is both common and necessary in any situation. So, one might interpret a driver's communication (actions) as "provocation," such as flashing one's lights, but the raging driver still made the decision to rage (which is completely out of proportion and inappropriate).

3233

Prima facie, in theory, seems like a good system. If consistency, as you said, is the issue, I'd implement a better training system for cops to decide if someone is driving safely or not. Maybe set an upper limit at 100, and crack down more harshly on distracted, out of control drivers (who pose a much higher risk to others than speeders). I just wish that a common sense system like this would work. I know someone who drives 10 over in good weather. Great, nothing wrong with that if you're driving defensively. But then it rains-and in Georgia when it rains, it pours-and he keeps driving 10 over. No regard for the conditions whatsoever, because here the police don't distinguish much between varying conditions (especially since the "Super Speeder" law set a de facto upper limit of 15 over, since police are targeting the more lucrative "super speeders").

fintail

They are both guilty, just at different points. The provoker makes a decision for his behavior just like the rager.

imidazol97

>They are both guilty, just at different points. The provoker makes a decision for his behavior just like the rager.

I don't agree that most provokers make a conscious decision to be in the left lane to impede a speeder. Therefore, I don't agree they have guilty of other than ignorance.

The aggressor is the one wanting to go faster who does whatever sates his or her ego. Somehow the automobile in their own mind becomes a part of their "self" and they feel someone is "hurting" them by being in front of them at the speed limit or above. This personal damage that they imagine becomes the reason for their testosterone-enhanced rage and their need to seek revenge on the "aggressor," whose only aggression was going slower than someone else imagines they should go.

I parallel this to the fight at an area lowlife bar where a fellow got in a fight with someone and I believe hit him with a gun in the face as a part of killing him in the parking lot. Then the testosterone-enhanced aggressor left the scene. As he sat in court yesterday he apologized to the family of the victim (LLCer?) because he "didn't mean to hurt him." The now-innocent aggressor himself was shot the next night in a fight at another area bar while the police were looking for him.

Do I see a pattern of aggressive behavorior on the part of this one aggressive person? Do _some_ aggressive drivers repeatedly enjoy "correcting" the LLCers they are able find in their drives? Or do they just zip around them on the right and merrily go on their way. I believe some like the conflict. Hopefully, most aggressors just laugh, take a deep breath and try to go on their way.

snakeweasel

The "provoker" may be totally innocent of the alleged infraction. Suppose someone is driving and some situation happened where s/he suddenly had to slam on their brakes (be it someone running out in front of them, making a left turn in front of them or a wide range of possibilities). The driver behind them gets all outraged over this the "provoker" did nothing wrong, just that the wrong doing was just perceived by the rager.

fintail

I think a lot of LLCs and similar (those who speed up when being passed, etc) do make a decision to be a self-appointed traffic deputy. When you're being passed by every vehicle on the road and you are still in the left lane, there's no way to justify it. And I don't see ignorance as an excuse.

It (usually) takes two to tango. Passive-aggressive behavior is still aggressive.

fintail

That's a nice hypothetical scenario, but how often does it lead to road rage incident? A person being cut off or avoiding an accident then igniting a rager? I can't imagine it is significant. Especially compared to the wannabe traffic cops, errant lane changers, speeder-uppers when being passed, etc.

tjc78

Heading back from Richmond VA to south Jersey yesterday, I noticed quite a few winners.

1:) Guy in a van obvioulsly not paying attention rear ends another van when traffic slows down.

2:) BMW 3 series swerving in and out of every lane finally almost loses it when jerking into the center lane from the left (at 90+) and the driver in the right lane was doing the same thing. Best part of all this was he got no further than me in the left lane at a constant 75-80

3:) Motorcycle splitting lanes driving at upwards of 100 based on my speed.

4:) After almost 7 hours of drving (which should be 4.5) I am on the off ramp 1 mile from home in a good line of traffic when a Highlander with NY plates comes up the side of the ramp and decides to cut everyone off. Needless to say a big Diesel F250 refused to let him in and an incident started, the NY driver just ends up going down the shoulder of the road cutting off another driver up the road a bit.

snakeweasel

That's a nice hypothetical scenario, but how often does it lead to road rage incident?

Can't say but I would wager that a sizable number of people (not majority but sizable) do get enraged by perceived, not actual, incidents.

fintail

Yeah, you're right...ragers can be set off by the slightest misdeed, whether perceived or real.

As to what makes the misdeeds, maybe it should be ignorance vs stupidity - spaced off in your own world going 2 under in the left lane vs blindly cutting off/speeding up while being passed/playing speed cop etc. The former is curable, the latter is terminal.

jlflemmons

A friend once pointed out that you should not do anything behind the wheel that you wouldn't do in person. Thought about that for a while. Many will open a door for someone, but would refuse to let someone enter the freeway from a ramp. See this every day on MoPac freeway in Austin, Texas. Some of the most obnoxious drivers I have every seen, and I have seen too many, drive this freeway everyday. You get the holier-than-thou Prius drivers who will pull into the left lane 10mph below the prevailing speed of traffic, then slow down. You get people passing on shoulders and in exit lanes. The ones that will eventually end up killing/injuring themselves or others are those who cannot deal with being behind another car. I have seen cars travelling at 10 over the limit (75 in this case) with drivers flying by and cutting over in front with inches to spare. Just because there was a "gap" they could shoot for. One wonders if these are the same jerks that will try to push to the head of a line ahead of others?

Something I have tried to make myself do, and have been fairly successful with is this simple thing. If a driver in an inside lane signals to move toward the outside, I will back off and let them over. Figure they see their exit coming up, and it is a courteous thing to do. You would hold a door for someone with an armload, so why not show some "nice" here, too? As simple an act as this is, I have seen folks try for over a mile to get over for their exit, becoming more and more stressed as the exit approaches.

But the one thing I have seen more and more of that is really scary, is the "lane change feint". You see some driver, many in trucks, come flying up in a lane that is slower than the one they want. When they come up on the slower traffic, they will jerk the wheel toward the lane they want. When the driver in that lane hits the brakes thinking they are about to be side-swipped, the agressor will then shoot the gap into the lane forcing the driver to either hit their brakes harder or swerve to the shoulder. Dangerous as hell, but I see it a couple of times per day.

If the city of Austin Texas wanted to, they could put 20 cops on the five mile stretch of the MoPac expressway between SH183 and Lady Bird Lake and write tickets non-stop from sun up to sun down.

snakeweasel

Some of the misdeeds are not really misdeeds. One time I made a right turn on red and the only car on the road that I was turning onto was about a block or so away from the intersection so I had plenty of time. The clown flashed his lights at me.

I had times under the same circumstances when the guy on the road drove around me got in front of me then slowed down. Problem was it took them 2 or three blocks and them passing me when I was going 5 or more over the limit. In short they had to gun it and gun it for a while for them to pass me. How dare me pulling out in front of them when they were far far away.

Once I had someone race up behind me on a two lane road and get close behind me. I saw him a few times in my rearview mirror making hand gesters like he was really upset that he had to slow down. But I was doing just above the SL and so was the guy in front of me, and the guy infront of him and the guy in front of him and the guy.... You get the ideal.

Sometimes there is no misdeed, just perceived misdeeds.

snakeweasel

A friend once pointed out that you should not do anything behind the wheel that you wouldn't do in person.

I think that's the problem. These are the same people that get to the bottom of the escalator and just stand there trying to figure out where to go next and blocking the people behind them. They are the ones that block the grocery store aisle with their cart while trying to figure out what brand of canned corn to buy. These are the same people that will run to the checkout lane if they see you are closer. There are a lot of jerks out there.

Best to drive like there is a police car following you.

snakeweasel

Coming out of the store yesterday I saw a four door sedan driving away with the rear passenger side door open. It was just flapping there a bit as they drove away. I just hope that there was no kids or anything in the back that could have fallen out.

imidazol97

>making hand gesters like he was really upset that he had to slow down. But I was doing just above the SL and so was the guy in front of me, and the guy infront of him and the guy in front of him and the guy....

That brings me back to the psychological problems that some of the aggressive drivers have: they need someone to dominate and the person in front of them, blocking them from demonstrating their prowess by speeding, is the person to be mad at.

Ignoring their childish disfunctional antics usually keeps them suffering even more because they want attention.

fintail

Then wouldn't a LLC have the same "psychological problem", by "dominating" a speeder? Passive agressiveness is still aggressiveness...and you are right, not paying attention to them is the best tactic. Don't look, don't speed up or slow down, act like you didn't even see them.

fintail

Why do you think I am speaking in absolutes? :P

I think most misdeeds really are misdeeds. Cutting off, blocking passes, pulling out from side streets in front of rapidly moving traffic, etc. It takes two to tango, and I would wager an awful lot of money the road ragee has kind of asked to be the recipient of the road rager.

imidazol97

My observations of LLCers varies from one time to another. The time of day and the apparent purpose of the driving seems to be in play.

In spring or fall we'll observe LLCers driving from Mi and Ontario apparently to their winter place in, I assume, Florida. The seem to suffer incompetence at changing lanes and try to just move fast in the left lane. Some seem to have visual problems. Some appear scared.

Others are drivers who appear to not know that they can share the road on I75 in SW Ohio. I have seen drivers go from Cincy outskirts to Dayton all in the left lane of I75 while it's 3 or 4, or 5 for a short time. They won't get over for anyone and appear to be majority women and in SUVs; speeds are from 65 to 75.

Other LLCers tend to be people commuting who aren't going to give up anything at 73 mph to those going faster from behind. I regularly commute to Cincinnati for a doctor appointment and I love leaving early morning and driving 55 in the right hand lane and observing the morning fights in the left 2 and 3 (and then 4) lanes before hitting the backups at the outskirts of Cincy. Those are people who are dominating.

Your analysis of the psyche of those involved?

snakeweasel

Then wouldn't a LLC have the same "psychological problem", by "dominating" a speeder?

In the case cited there is only one lane hence no LLC.

fintail

I didn't realize imid was restricting it to 2 lane roads.

And even then, a slowpoke might be having a blast in holding people up just because he can.

snakeweasel

The main focus of your post seems to suggest that the misdeed is done due to ignorance or stupidity and offered no suggestion that nothing wrong was done.

Now I am not saying everyone who gets pissed off on the road has no reason, just that there are some people (and there are many of them) that believe that anything that inhibits them is deliberate even if nothing was done wrong to that person to begin with.

fintail

Yes, some LLCs are scaredy cats who might get stuck in a lane and are too timid to change lanes, or suffer from tunnel vision and simply don't realize what's going on around them. Certain demographics are very apt to behave this way. People who maybe shouldn't be driving on a busy highway at all. They are not intending to make trouble.

I don't usually make a psychological analysis, I don't have any credentials in that field, and I don't buy into a lot of it either. I will just say there's a lot of selfishness to go around, from the speeder to the guy who has nothing to gain from speeding but won't let the racers get by.

fintail

I think most misdeeds (valid ones of course) are due to ignorance or stupidity...and the invalid misdeeds are also due to the same factors - but in that case, of the driver taking offense. I don't pretend both sides can be at fault...ragers can be just as wrong as provokers.

imidazol97

>I didn't realize imid was restricting it to 2 lane roads.


Two lane roads? If that's two lane interstates, that's right.

snakeweasel

Well in this case it was a long line of cars doing about 5 over SL (which for this road pushes the limits of safety) so no one should be upset.

andres3

is sorely lacking in California.

Often, the fast lane on CA freeways is the right lane (supposed slow lane).

It's the way of life for people that actually have somewhere to be and maintain productivity. People that have all day to get from A to B hog the left lanes.

andres3

"normal speed of traffic" sounds like the posted speed limit for cars.

Absolutely wrong. The normal speed of traffic never has anything to do with the 2 numbers on an aluminum plate sign. The normal speed of traffic is whatever speed traffic decides is reasonable and appropriate given the conditions at that moment in time.

Speed is irrelevant, slower traffic must move over to the right to let faster traffic pass.

andres3

3) Because it makes for a safer pass for all involved parties.
Better than average drivers are able to pass on either side, makes no difference.

You obviously need to retake your driver's training. The problem isn't speeders on the road. Speeding virtually is never a causal factor in any accident. The problem is speed differentials. When a LLC makes someone pass on the right illegally, the cause the slower moving traffic on the right to come into closer contact or proximity to the faster moving traffic on the left. This proximity raises the hazards to all in the area and is why left lane passing is preferred. Speed is irrelevant.

fintail

I guess I can't relate...I've never been in a line of traffic that has actually been going anywhere near the SL. Around here, when there's a cluster, it goes slower and slower with each passing mile.

Today I had a fun one...got behind a woman in an MDX who was phone yapping. She had been driving about 10 under the limit, but as I was in the fintail and it was in an area with light sequencing that is typical for public sector work, I didn't care as there was no use hurrying. At the last light in the sequence she spaces out and sits for many seconds after we get green, so I honk. The car has a loud horn that can awaken even the most oblivious of drivers. She slowly gets moving again, and soon the road turns to a 4 lane, and I go around her on the left, as she is still going slow and yapping. She rolls down her window and starts yelling at me...but I just glance at her, shake my head, smile, and then look forward again. She kept yelling. Inconsiderate me, I offended the spoiled princess who has no legitimate right to be on the road to begin with.

fintail

Funny recent ad by the overpaid goons who monitor road safety in WA state. It features a speeding Camcord, and some babble stat about how 85% of crashes are by drivers who thought speed limits "don't apply to them". Then it shows the Camcord crashing after ignoring a yellow signed corner. What a pile of manure...my experience with yellow signs in WA state has them pegged at a very low rate, to use my cliche a 1952 London double decker bus could take the corner at double the yellow sign. And of course, yellow signs aren't even really speed limits anyway. I wonder who's brother in law got paid to make the stupid ad. What a bunch of idiots.

hammerhead

I thought the exact same thing of the exact same ad. Most of the yellow speed advisory signs are way conservative, perhaps with the exception of the ones accompanied by the graphic of the truck tipping over. Otherwise, I think they're engineered for a zero-G turn.

jlflemmons

Several years ago as a joke I designed an Estes rocket launcher system that could be mounted behind the blank fillers where the optional fog lights would be on that vehicle. A pod of three Class B rockets behind each door, independently fire controlled. In place of the parachute and packing, a teaspoon of talcum powder. Had the whole thing worked out so if an idiot did something really stupid, just flip one switch to open the door, and fire a friggin missle at him. A class B wouldn't do any real damage, but I figured the sight of a missle coming by and then exploding in a puff of smoke and powder would probably get the perpetrators attention.

I showed the design to a cop buddy. He looked at me, looked at the floor, and asked that I please not show the design to anybody, nor mention it to him again. :shades:

3233

Good point. In light traffic passing on the right can be quick and easy, especially if the LLCer is moving significantly slower than the flow of traffic. But when there is substantial traffic you usually will be better off just staying in your lane, not weaving around trying to inch forward a couple spots in traffic.

In other news, I almost killed a man today. I had just gotten off the off-ramp and turned right. I accelerated up to about 50 (45 zone) and this guy is BOLTING across the 3-lane road. I slammed on the brakes hard enough to kick in ABS and we both breathe huge sighs of relief after he makes it to the median unharmed. The area I was driving through has a pretty large number of day laborers who walk/bike from their homes to get groceries/go to work/etc. Due to the light placement, there are plenty of jaywalkers in the area where I almost hit the guy, but they're usually smart enough to look and listen for cars coming before they cross. It was definitely an eye-opening experience-had I been texting, eating, or distracted in any way I would have killed, or at least seriously injured, someone.

fintail

I have safely doubled the yellow sign on many local off ramps, no ill effects. Granted, my car has performance suspension and tires, but still. Maybe if we were in an icy snowstorm, those speeds would be relevant.

I think a lot of drivers want that zero-G turn, sadly. In the smallish town where my mother lives, there are lots of senior citizen drivers...none of whom will go around a corner at more than 5mph.

andres3

is the fun and safe, and more importantly, FUN speed to go around corners in a fun to drive vehicle.

Doubling the yellow sign guideline speed works for me everytime.

stever

The yellow advisory signs come in pretty handy when you aren't familiar with the route.

3233 - yikes! Glad everyone is safe.

snakeweasel

Doubling the yellow sign guideline speed works for me everytime.

Not around here, doubling the yellow sign guideline around here will get you into trouble.

timadams

I've usually found that I can pretty easily go 20-25 mph faster than the yellow advisory signs on dry roads. The advisory speeds are about right for a wet road.