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Comments
So just to be safe, use the left lane only for passing as it was intended. It can greatly reduce stress and possibly accidents for all.
So, the goal is not to "teach" the LLC anything, as that's like trying to teach a pig to sing.
The goal is to break the logjam, and allow ALL the vehicles stacked up behind the LLC, to safely pass on the right. I've seen it work! Bigrig drivers seem to especially appreciate this move.
The same thing applies for Middle-Lane-Campers who gum up traffic just as much or more than the LLCs. (the MLCs block the bigrigs from passing , since bigrigs are prohibited from the left lane of most highways around here.)
"What's good for the goose is good for the gander!"
As to the left lane driving, at least in the Bay Area, on the freeways if I am traveling 65 maximum limit, people will be on my rear bumper or may pass about 75 on the right and then cut me off. I have seen a few times, the front vehicle hit his brake light and the vehicle behind almost crash applying his/her brakes. Scary for the rest of us on the freeway
I like to travel on freeways like IS 5, along with the other 20 or so vehicles at abbout 75-80 mph. I guess its the "pack mentality" but many will pass the line of cars in the left lane at 85 - 90 mph.
The other issue is here in Disneyland, er Ca, the average speed many times of the "traffic pack" is 70-75 mph regardless of lane.
The issue of speed, left lane, et al has formed an excellent topic we have spoken to. I have enjoyed each post and respect each other's opinions. And that is why I really enjoy ALL of you as contributors.
Good luck to all and stay safe.
jensad
The argument of purity of purpose on the part of LLD's wanes when they start complaining about people in the middle lane (of 3 or more lanes) blocking their right to drive as fast as they want without regard to speed limit. That sounds like they want to go as fast as they want, when they want, and in which lane they want without the "great unwashed" slowing them down.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Or maybe that makes me part of the problem and a horribly inconsiderate driver just like all the folks who really do CAMP in left/middle lanes, ignoring the many statutes which require drivers to travel in the rightmost available travel lane.
Around here, the MLCs are mostly a problem for bigrigs who are not allowed to be in left-lane and thus cannot get around a slowpoke in right lane and a MLC/slowpoke who are both travelling the same speed.
It's generally not a "Left Lane Dominator" behind you. It's just someone who wants to get to their destination and is comfortable driving a bit faster than you.
This is especially annoying when the roads are wet, as they throw so much road spray that you can't see if it's clear to pass on the right, so ALL the overtaking traffic has to funnel through a single lane on the left. :mad:
If they haven't been out of the left lane of a 3 or 4 lane interstate around here, they are a left lane dominator. If they have been moving in and out of the lanes on their right, then they are NOT a left lane dominator and are just someone driving faster than the limit.
>Slower Traffic Keep Right
Try telling that to an Ohio State Patrolman who stopped you for speeding: "Officer, I was in the left hand lane and was not impeding traffic, therefore I know you don't care about my 79 mph and it's only that I wasn't going slower than someone else where I should have been more to the right in the lane selection per the ORC (Ohio Revised Code)."
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I don't think anyone is saying that a speeding ticket wouldn't be justified in your scenario. Neither would a ticket for driving in the left lane in those states that don't allow it.
The poster was implying that if someone is slower, despite being at the speed limit and above, they must clear the leftmost lane for those choosing to speed.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
________________
§ 46.2-804. Special regulations applicable on highways laned for traffic.
Whenever any roadway has been divided into clearly marked lanes for traffic, drivers of vehicles shall obey the following:
1. Any vehicle proceeding at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions existing, shall be driven in the lane nearest the right edge or right curb of the highway when such lane is available for travel except when overtaking and passing another vehicle or in preparation for a left turn or where right lanes are reserved for slow-moving traffic as permitted in this section;
"normal speed of traffic" sounds like the posted speed limit for cars. If they're going faster than same..., doesn't sound like it's covered. IF someone is going slower than posted speed limit then it's suggested to use a more rightmost lane "except when overtaking and passing another vehicle... or where right lanes are reserved for slow-moving traffic." So the right lane doesn't sound like an available option all the time.
"
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Here's the Idaho version:
"Upon all highways any vehicle proceeding at less than normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing, shall be driven in the right-hand lane available for traffic, or as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the highway, except when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction or when preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway."
Idaho Statutes
It may sound like it, but it's not.
I have police in the family.
John
He wasn't implying it, that's the law. I won't repost the links... you can look at the last several days of posts. In some states, it is illegal to impede traffic. The speed limit does not trump keep right except to pass and vice versa.
That being said, speeders are clearly breaking and law. They are taking the risk that they won't get caught. However, it is also against the law (in some states) to hold them up by driving in the left lane.
Then they can't give speeding tickets if someone is moving along with one or more other cars at a "normal flow of traffic."
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That's one factor that is missing in Ohio State Patrol's arsenal, unmarked cars. It's illegal to use unmarked vehicles for traffic duties in Ohio. If we could use unmarked cars, we could stop a lot of the flagrant speeding and aggressive driving. As it is, all they have to do is watch for the white State Patrol car with the red and blue light bar on top. Too much warning for many of the aggressive speeders.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
So if one is a speeder but not aggressive, then it's cool right?
There is a difference. Many people who speed have a technique of aggressiveness. Many people who want to get somewhere above the speed limit respect the space around others, whether in the leftmost lane or the middle lane of 3, etc. When I see the carefull and courteous speeder and if I happen to be in the left lane, it's hi ho to them; let them go on their way. They might find the speed check and keep me at 7 over or 8 over from getting a nibble of the white state patrol car in Ohio.
I observe Mercedes drivers to among the more courteous in heavier traffic when someone is dawdling at or above the speed limit in the leftmost lane or even below the limit. They don't spend their effort nudging up against the car in the left lane trying to force the driver to accede to them and get out of their way. I have even made an opening for them to move into the other lane to pass on the right.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Honestly, if someone is speeding/driving aggressively, but paying enough attention to the road scene and traffic to identify enforcement vehicles, I feel safer/more comfortable around that then soccer mom in the minivan with 4 kids watching tv doing 65 in the fast lane. At least one is paying attention to the road and the driving scene.
I'd think BMW drivers would tend to be more abrupt than MB drivers. What you describe sounds like my mindset...I don't bother to tailgate, I just blip the throttle and leave the tortoise safely behind :shades:
Esteemed LLCers rejoice - you too can be driving 10 mph slower than you wanted to be, while 400 bigrigs, minivans, camaro guys, and yuppie BMW chicks pass you on the right and/left 25 mph faster
It's road-karma.
the prima-facie/real speed-limit can be above or below the posted limit.
the posted limit is often mandated/defined to be the 85th percentile speed. so 15% of the traffic will be driving faster than the properly-set speed limit.
85% below.
this is by definition in many states but probably not all. to set a post a reasonable pseudo-speed-limit, it is often mandated to do a speed survey to determine 85th percentile speed.
it's funny how anyone can interpret the vehice codes & statutes according to their own definition of words to justify their LLCing or MLCing. what does prima-facie mean anyway?
(it all depends on what the meaning of "is" is . )
Actually, I kind of like Fin's reply.
However, I know that I'm not trying to justify speeding. Perhaps it sounds like others are but I'm not sure about that. It does sound like some folks are trying to justify LLCing. I hope that we all can agree on two things:
1. Tailgating an LLC is dangerous. Just because the LLC is breaking the law doesn't mean the person behind should try to control the situation.
2. Deliberately holding up traffic by driving in the left lane is dangerous. Just because the person behind is breaking the law doesn't mean the one in front should try to control the situation.
Even if you are driving 62 in a 60 zone, I would think it would be great to let the faster speeder pass you. I know I always like to be in that situation because they will be picked up on radar before me.
Yep - that's the way to do it. I watch for this behavior and make an extra effort to let the other driver know that their technique is appreciated.
I also do not mind when cars that are fast approaching blip their lights when they are still a ways off. Several times when driving on interstates in the lower 48 people would do this when I would put on my left blinker to pass a slower moving vehicle ahead of me in the right lane. It is a good attention-grabbing technique because otherwise a driver ahead may not look into the mirror long enough to accurately gauge the speed differential on a vehicle that far back. It caused me to do a double-take and often wait a couple seconds extra for the other vehicle to zip by before changing lanes.
To me, driving well above the speed limit is the same as well under it - done courteously, neither presents an impediment to the normal flow of traffic.
I have seen the signal method used just a couple times here, but flashing lights is more common. It's better than laying on the horn anyway.
Many left-lane drivers doing about 120 mph refused to move right even when there was space and my coworker used left-turn-signal.
Half the autobahn drivers acted as LLCs - refusing to move to the right until he started tailgating them at about 130 mph - maybe a foot off their rear bumper. It was terrifying! And also surprising.
The high speed LLCs are something all their own...I think because high speeds require constant focus of what's ahead, that some fail to keep an eye on what's behind them - just like many LLCs here probably don't even look in their mirror. Tailgating is a big thing there, yes, I saw the same thing - 5ft following distance at 100mph+. I didn't have such problems when I was driving, but I was mainly in the east and south - less population density.
Which Cincinnati is that?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I'll still take a German trained driver over one from my area. I think a lot of the lowest common denominator "motorists" (I use the term lightly) here would wet themselves at the demands of driving in a place with high expectations.
The German LLC scenario is a little different from here. Most autobahns are 2 or no more than 3 lanes in each direction. The right lane moves barely faster than it would here, maybe 60mph. If a person is moving at say 100mph, and they are passing the 60mph lane, they might not want to get over and slam on their brakes to let the 140mph driver past, rather they will want to pass the slow right lane pack and not have to suddenly decelerate - but they will eventually get over. The speed differentials can be shocking, but people generally will move over for faster traffic, and passing on the right is both illegal and taboo. It's different from what I see here, which is the LLC driving at the same speed or maybe a fifth of a mph over the lane to their right, creating a bottleneck or people weaving and passing on the right when possible.
From a USA driver's perspective, the thing that bothers me the most about your description of the German driving experience is the large speed differentials between lanes.
It makes me uneasy to pass cars in an adjacent lane if I am traveling more than 15-20 MPH faster than they are. In fact, I will slow down to reduce the differential until I get by them. I guess, that makes sense in the good ol' US of A, where rear view mirrors are best used for checking make-up. :sick:
Still, I would like to give autobahn driving a try. I'll put it on my "bucket list". :shades:
It's also kind of odd to be going 120-130 and having cars zoom by going 150+....odd, but cool. I remember that happened to me, I was going about 120...I spotted something coming up behind me, and I got over, and an M5 flew past probably at the speed governor, or more. And the only autobahn accident I saw was a low speed fender bender.
One thing I saw that worried me was that weather had no impact on speed. Dense fog or rain did not seem to slow people down a bit. I didn't feel comfortable going more than 100 or so in moderate rain, and at that speed was passed by several cars. I suspect the roads have better drainage there...there is actually something to show for their (massive) gas taxes, unlike here.
Looks like a lot of the wrecks in the last 24 hours involved trucks, assuming Bing's translator is half right (link).
Europe as a whole has a truck issue now, with trucks from eastern areas and eastern driving routines coming into the more organized west.
One of my minors was in German in my undergrad work and that's the closest to Deutschland I'll ever get.
But you have been there, so do they use daytime running lights to make vehicles more visible to avoid overlooking a car moving rapidly from behind?
I'd worry about overlooking a car and moving over in front of them because of the speed differential.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Actually that is a good point, to get into the fast lane requires a significant burst of acceleration, just to be safe. You can't just meander over at 3mph faster than the car in front of you like people do here. On an unlimited stretch, people need to hit a higher speed while passing, or deal with going slow - as it is just too dangerous to dawdle over, and it will be seen as rude in a culture that actually values driving skill.
Oh yeah, and there are fun laws...intentional LLC is a significant ticket, along with backing up or turning around. Running out of gas due to driver error is also a penalty, along with having a winter accident on summer tires.
Actually that is a good point, to get into the fast lane requires a significant burst of acceleration, just to be safe. You can't just meander over at 3mph faster than the car in front of you like people do here
Thank you for your answers. It's a completely different type of driving than our urban/interurban interstates here, based on what you're describing. There is a accountability for the driver and the driver's keeping their car prepared for the road.
Changing lanes in traffic on 3 and more lane interstates here is aggravating to me and shows out another inconsiderate driver. If in lane 3 and changing to lane 2, someone in lane 1 will often just move over into lane 2 without checking turn signals on a car in lane 3. The drivers don't anticipate that someone else might be moving from faster lanes to the opening in between them.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I have a suspicion a lot of lowest common denominator drivers don't look before changing lanes - I know being "cut off" seems to be a main cause of road rage incidents.
Surely you have one of those - they were all the rage about 10 years ago. A friend of mine presented one at a Czech border crossing and had the guards going for a few minutes. They were kind enough to stamp it for him.